User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 26

Message
You put the following message on my talkpage under Tombseye section, is it related to that subject or you are refering to another issue?
 * Well, please be aware that you can't just copy content direclty from another website. You have to put it in your own words. What is the latest version of the article? Khoikhoi 06:44, 3 February 2007 (UTC)  Kiumars

Re:
I'm going to nominate it for deletion later today the tags were just a quickie, very busy now. The article name is wrong, the content is unencyclopedic and pov, and there are no references for obvious reasons...--  Ευπάτωρ   Talk!! 15:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Pashtuns problemos
Sorry for the late reply, but I got swamped with work. KPBotany apparently had a problem with all of the new pictures, but I had no problem with the family picture myself as it looked okay to me. The boy is wearing a hat typical of Sindhis (culturally speaking) and thus Haider does not like it. I figure at this point the pictures are the least of the worries so handle it as you see fit. I'm gonna try to fix stuff when I get a chance later today. Ciao. Tombseye 18:41, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

ArmenianNY
This user has been warned and he is still attacking people such as me and another Turkish wikipedian, Please see Battle of Sardarapat "Who is this idiot? Sardarapat battle took part on May 26 Armenia declared independence on May 28.How could Ottoman forces attack independet Armenia prior to Armenia's independence. Stop you idiotic rv)" he was insulting another person. Nareklm 23:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay by far this is worser, Nareklm  23:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Another one, Nareklm  23:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ararat arev using new account,User:Mashis Nareklm 23:34, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Also this, User:Gevork7 Nareklm 23:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Hey
Hey Khoikhoi! I'm still busy with the MBA, but happy to see that all the usual controversies and fights continue here at Wikipedia! I actually missed it. I will try to start again! My fellow Turks need passionate people like me here in WP :) Cheers, --Gokhan 10:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Thx for barnstar
Thank you Khoikhoi. It's my first here by the way. As for the disagreements, as George S. Patton (ôr rather, George C. Scott) said; "I don't understand these young men who die so prematurely. There are still so many wars to be won." :) Cretanforever 15:08, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

did you read this trash:)
http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg176812.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Fadix (talk • contribs) 18:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

Re: Huseyin Celil The text I used for Huseyin Celil belongs to me personally. I have a website launched at http://www.huseyincelil.com, you can see from domain registry that i own it and the pages over there belongs to me. Accordingly, it does not have any copyright issues at all. Can you please contact me. Thanks bcelik

Protection template
Ah yes, the "v" is what I was forgetting. It's always the most obvious with template names, isn't it? Thanks for the fix, I was heading back to do it myself. Teke ( talk ) 02:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think it's main page worthy, short of heads of state or other such figures deaths are not usually put in In the news. The recent deaths link should be good enough; it's on Larry King at the moment because it's a slow news day :)   Teke ( talk ) 02:35, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Disclaimer

 * Baristarim:{ That's exactly what I was thinking :) I think that info (or its equivalent in the Turkey article) should be merged to either under minorities or some other section. Is about something else (probably about the minorities section), as he continued to edit the article and keep the disclaimer. It discloses that FACT that there is no ethic questions in census or it is by law forbidden to discriminate people with ethnic background. Information (disclaimer) given to inform the reader that most of the information is secondary source and not related with Turkish state resources. Being in secondary source, not generated by the state ("census") is an important fact. If France can have the disclaimer, Demographics of France I do not see why User:Khoikhoi rejects it. --OttomanReference 03:03, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

What is the source of "I disagree that the o.." The page is not about a general demographics. It is not about ethnic background distribution of any random area. It is about the "Republic of Turkey". The position of "Republic of Turkey" (or "France" on the other side) is not an undue weight. It stands under Demographics of France. Same reasons apply to Turkey. Thanks. OttomanReference 03:20, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Your response feels like you have a bias. I guess we know how hard life for kurds that "Turkish government's view on Turkey's demographics" needs to be something that has to be an article. I do not see such remarks on French page or people claiming "French government's view on Paris's demographics". I wish there is a magic wand that will help you see how funny this remark is. Thanks. --OttomanReference 04:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Europas is here
The nationalistic vandal from the german wikipedia is here, he is editing under user:Székely Attila. Please bock him indefinetly, thanks. --Öcsi 13:52, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Cretan Turks
Hi Khoikhoi, I'm not sure I understand the motivation for your reverts today on Cretan Turks. Miskin's edits were basically just a revert to a longstanding stable version of the intro accepted along general lines by both Greek and Turkish editors (compare Miskin's with Baristarim's version of 5 Jan), which had very recently been unilaterally changed and replaced with a very clearly inferior version by Cretanforever. If anybody here ought to be admonished to garner consensus before making sweeping changes, it should be him. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:17, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I wasn't talking about the tinkering with the details of "were forced to leave" vs. "left", which was Miskin's second edit . You could have reverted just that if you disagreed, although even in that edit there was something well argued and worth keeping (they may have been "forced" to leave but not in the beginning "forced by the Greek state", which wasn't yet around in 1896). But instead, you chose to blanket revert to Cretanforever's version, which was clearly inferior on several counts. Poor English, obliterating the link to the Cretan Muslims article, deleting a well sourced statement about the Greek ethnic/linguistic origins, instead introducing an unsourced OR passage about their Turkish culture. This version was indeed a product of unilateral POV pushing, it had been objected against by editors as unnationalistic as Macrakis, and it had broken a version that had in fact been stable along general lines over months and across multiple edits by both Greek and Turkish editors. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I certainly won't object to a merger of the two articles, or to a rename to whatever title you prefer. And I know Miskin can be irritating with his blustering aggressive style... But that all doesn't change the fact that Cretanforever's version is of miserable quality (and that he has been reverting under false edit summaries today...) :-( Fut.Perf. ☼ 23:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

My RFA

 * ...fly on littlewing. ~ Arjun 19:51, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Turkish names of Greek Iocations
Dear Khoikhoi,

I think modern Turkish names of the Greek locations should be stated rather than Ottoman names. First of all no one can understand Ottoman script. Also, I have doubts about names written in Ottoman script, since writing in Ottoman is very hard, thus, sometimes same word can be written in various ways. However, only one of them is correct. So, how can we be sure those names are correctly written? Although one can say he/she writes correctly there is a great probability of mistake. Also, the families, who came from Greece during the population exchange, simply use the names written in modern script. Furthermore, Turks who live inside of Greek borders use modern script either. I think that we should use modern script rather than using Ottoman. Or at least modern Turkish names should be stated with the Ottoman names together. For example; Lesbos (Greek: Lesvos (Λέσβος), Ottoman Turkish: مدللى, Turkish: Midilli) CrashMex 23:40, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * CrashMex the non-Greek names are provided for historical reasons and not to promote land claims. Miskin 00:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Look Khoikhoi I'll pour some water on my wine this time and ignore your provokative and clearly biased behaviour towards me. I know you've been holding a grudge against me on the specific article, but you need to get over it and be neutral. You must understand that by supporting a POV in order to take an action against me, you only enforce the POV-pusher continue his practice, and therefore make it harder to reach a consensus. This was proved within minutes when Gonzo removed the 'disputed' tag and made some comments in Talk about how wikipedia is not in position to decide on its own articles or something along those lines. Miskin 00:58, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Miskin, I can not understand the relation between modern Turkish names and land claims. The thing you said is really provocative. If I had a land claim over an independent and ally state, I would not be here at Wikipedia. Also, I strongly encourage writing Greek names to Turkish locations and I do not have any fears of Greek land claims over Turkey. Besides, it is very doubtful to say those Ottoman names are correctly written if they are not taken from an official source. CrashMex 22:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, what’s your point about this issue if you consider the reasons I stated at the top. I think the best way would be like this, at least for now: Lesbos (Greek: Lesvos (Λέσβος), Ottoman Turkish: مدللى, Turkish: Midilli) CrashMex 22:15, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I wasn't saying that you personally are trying to lay land claims, I just don't see a reason to have two Turkish names, or two Greek names for that matter in any Greco-Turkish article. Miskin 14:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Cussing
Hey Khoikhoi, i have a question are we allowed to curse? like for example "..Stop fucking reverting my edits" just wondering since its not an personal attack, im starting to get frustrated with users here. Nareklm 01:40, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh lol, but it helps me maintain my stress online heh. Nareklm 01:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

possible sock puppet of User:Kgeza67
I'm no expert in these things, but is it possible that Special:Contributions/Lokimoki is a sock-puppet of User:Hunor3/User:Kgeza67? Thought I'd put it to your attention. - TheMightyQuill 01:46, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Inappropriate usage of images
These users confirm that they can use images on wikipedia but it doesn't state they own the images, they use images from other websites and claim it as there own, for instance, Image:Kish_Church.jpg is from [http://www.un-az.org/undp/news/newimg/prspsheki2big.jpg ] and way more images i can name. Nareklm 03:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * So there is no relevance at all so it is a copy vio. Nareklm 03:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay it is a copyvio did you see the site i gave you? there not the owners of that site, there the owners of euro caspian. Nareklm 03:48, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way Ararat arev is back, User:Ururus Nareklm 03:50, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

AdilBaguirov
There are somethings you should know about this person. I did a Google search on him and I figured out why he operates with so much original research and POV. That is what he does. He writes articles full of historical inaccuracies on several sites related to Azerbaijan and even runs his own website, where he frequently refers to Iranian Azerbaijan as "Southern Azerbaijan". I've been trying to tell you this whole time that this guy has been operating with POV and OR.Azerbaijani 05:35, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey Khoikhoi this should close it look, and Dacy69 added that link same website  Adil has been around for a few years the guy is an Ultra-nationalist on Armenian and Persian related subjects he hates everything about us. "It reminds me how some Azerbaijanis held in high regard such people as  Stepan Shaumyan and others, who were squarely anti-Azerbaijani." . "Adil Baguirov, a known and paid Azeri radical nationalist and a government agent appeared on Wikipedia after a long slumber on December 10, on that day he made edits on Armenia and Urartu articles. The exact two articles that were edited by Dacy69 within the past few hours supporting the exact same pov. Another Azeri user shows up out of nowhere supporting the other Azeri's same pov? Their wording is pretty much identical as well." Nareklm  05:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Also not to mention this, i suspect he is a sock puppet of adil to since he never logs on anymore and he seems to hate Armenians, i know the hate theres two kinds. Baku87 obviously added his own name, than later registered with his new user name Adil. Nareklm  06:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)\


 * Yes, I concur. He has government affiliation because he was the first to create a website about Azerbaijan when then internet first became main stream in 1995. He is involved in several nationalistic topics, and writes historically inaccurate articles, mostly for Azeri websites. Here is his website: Look at this article which he wrote (In Russian):  The title reads Appropriation of cultural and historical heritage of Azerbaijan by Iranian and Armenian governments: example of great Azerbaijani poet Nizami Ganjavi (Nezami from Ganjeh). Here is where he has compiled a list of articles, all of which support the Republic of Azerbaijan and criticise its "enemies", Armenia and Iran for example. I have continuously said on talk pages that this user uses OR and POV, and his website and his articles all show that this is what he does, he does original research! Also, I am sure that socks are being used.


 * Here you can read about Adil Baguirov: Note this:  Adil graduated from the University of Southern California (USC) in 1999 with degrees in Business Administration and International Relations. Obviously, he is no historian, yet everything he tries to add into Wikipedia is his personal original research. This is against Wikipedia rules and policies! Just type in Adil Baguirov into Google and you can see the articles he writes, all of which are POV and OR and have no place on Wikipedia. He is obviously not neutral, and has some sort of agenda here on Wikipedia.Azerbaijani 06:12, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Azerbaijani, "He has government affiliation because he was the first to create a website about Azerbaijan when then internet first became main stream in 1995", do you realize how baseless such argument is? Secondly, you missed the updated information, Adil also holds PhD in International Relations from Moscow State Institute of International Affairs (MGIMO) of the Foreign Ministry of Russian Federation. So if you're able to confront his edits with references, do so, otherwise, the thread above looks nothing other than personal attack and targeting of a person. Now let me ask you a simple question, based on your logic, when you're involved in consistent propaganda and edit warring on Azerbaijani sites, should we similarly assume that you work for Iranian government? Atabek 10:28, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Azerbaijani, do you have any proof that Dr. Baguirov serves for the government of Azerbaijan and everything that he does here is at the direct order of the Azerbaijani state? If yes, be kind to present it. If not, I would call you to refrain from groundless statements and personal judgements about other contributors. Millions of people have personal websites and private portals. Are they all governmental employees? Do you realize how ridiculous your statement is? And even if so, are civil servants and governmental officers prohibited to contribute to Wikipedia? If your judgement is based on the content of Dr. Baguirov's insertions, then similarly I can suggest that you are hired by Mr. Ayatolla Ala Akbar Khomenei to advance here Shia and pan-Persian propaganda. Do I do it? No. Why? Because that would sound tremendously ridiculous. I strongly call everyone, including yourself, to concentrate on the topics of discussion rather than diverting it to irrelevant directions. Besides, can you support your complaint about Dr. Baguirov's using the term of "South Azerbaijan" instead of "Iranian Azerbaijan" with references to the internationally and scholarly recognized term of the region? Is there any document that says that the official name of the region should be no otherwise but Iranian Azerbaijan (other than Persian scholars' papers)? Similarly, Russian experts can complain that Azerbaijan Republic should be called "Russian Azerbaijan", just like some Armenian politicians often call Azerbaijan "Eastern Armenia" (completely omitting the word 'Azerbaijan'). Azerbaijan is Azerbaijan, without any attachment of another state's affiliation. And the terms north, south, east and west sound more "geographically" than Russian, Iranian or anything else. --Batabat 15:53, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Who the fuck is this guy? he comes out of no where and starts supporting these guys they are sock puppets! Nareklm 15:59, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I could explain you personally who the f I am and where exactly I am coming from, but I am not sure this will help you in your efforts to support your statements. My knowledge tells me that it is the best time to turn to the administrators and request to ban this user for employing a non-academic language. --Batabat 08:58, 11 February 2007 (UTC).
 * '''Another sock puppet that pops out of no where to give the impression that Adil Baguirov has support... Its strange that all these people pop out of nowhere right when Adil needs them too!Azerbaijani 18:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

am I not surprized that two ideologically motivated users carry on their vendetta against me. For your info, the term "South Azerbaijan" has been widely accepted by the scholarly community, including by Encyclopedia Iranica -- and Khoikhoi knows that (a link to the article was provided last year). Moreover, if Iran can label its provinces as "East" and "West" Azerbaijan, and thus initiating the geographic distinction, then certainly Azerbaijan, and all Azerbaijanis, have a full right to refer to themselves and their native land with geo-oriented labels. As of the rest usual barrage of character assassination and insults, the administrators should take action against those who repeatedly harass me in this forum. --AdilBaguirov 18:08, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The only person here who is ideologically motivated here is you. You personal write your POV ideologically motivated articles and have them published on Azeri sights, including Azembassy, which is a government website that promotes historical revisionism!Azerbaijani 18:34, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The only persons who promotes revisionism are those of my "anonymous" critics, who seize on the fact that I am man enough to speak on my own behalf, speak clearly and without the need to hide behind various nicknames, as well as pretend to be who I am not. If you cannot match that, and have to hide, then remain in peace. My publications in international media well beyond my country of origin are available both in leading newspapers and in specialized journals and magazines, as well as in a form of a monograph (that's a book, for those who don't know). Meanwhile, my academic qualifications, are both certified (as in recognized) by leading academic institutions in the world, and are obviously more than enough to be able to counter the propaganda, misinformation, hate and insults of certain ideologically (and perhaps financially) motivated critics. If anyone has any proof about either sockpuppetry or government (? although not sure how would that be bad, since history belongs to all people, not just to Non-government), then please present it. Don't forget to make a full disclosure about yourselves too -- that's how things work in civilized world. Otherwise, if you have nothing, and have been both sanctioned before and otherwise found to be lying, then you are not very credible, it's time for you to change nicks one more time. I shall also thank all the websites which carry my articles as obviously, despite being written long time ago, my critics have still been unable to provide factual criticism, resorting instead to cheap shots and character assassination. And withstanding the test of time is the best compliment any writer can get. --AdilBaguirov 19:47, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ip usage or what? <font color="#0099FF">Nareklm  07:55, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Abşeron
Regarding that article, the other name gets more hits in Google by the way. <font color="#0099FF">Nareklm 06:51, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There both two different words the current one is from an Azeri written word since this is English wikipedia its better to change it plus if you search the Azeri term more Azeri sources or in there language pops up which we don't want since this is English wikipedia and more accuracies with the other word. <font color="#0099FF">Nareklm 06:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Khoikhoi, this is English Wikipedia. ş is not a letter in the English alphabet. I suggested moving the whole page but no one is listening. The page should be moved to Abseron or Absheron.Azerbaijani 18:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh ok, I just assumed that only English letters should have been used.Azerbaijani 16:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Kurdish categories
Hi. You left a 'welcome' for me which i failed to answer; Thanks (and sorry late).

I see many attempts to delete Kurdish categories and find this distressing. And I see you making reasonable edits, so I asking you what to do about this. I don't want to get into fight about it, but also don't like to see edits I make removed just because people against Kurds. Thank you.--Diyarbakir 07:56, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey. On what pages are you being reverted? Do they provide an explanation for their reverts? Perhaps you could make some comments on the relevant talk pages. BTW, shouldn't your username be "Diyarbakır" or "Amed"? <span style="font-family:monospace, monospace;">Khoikhoi 07:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I see Baristarim has been removing edits I made adding categories like Cities in Turkish Kurdistan. The category is now empty. He and Cool Cat keep saying *it's not a country* -- no it not, no one claiming it is. I find it discouraging that such users get away with taking such biased stands. They empty categories while review going on. They get as much as they can deleted. I think major articles have lots of people watching them, but many, many articles and subjects have only few people reading them. And these, which ones that set wikipedia apart from paper encyclopedias, are at mercy of bad actors.

I don't live in Diyarbakır, my grandmother did. I didn't want to deal with the non standard character. I think I can add it to my sig; will try before I save this.

thanks, Diyarbakır 13:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Talk:Qazakh
Khoi, I think you need to mediate this. It's really getting out of control. Adil keeps attacking me stating that I've been "stalling and sabotaging the constructive work" of the article. I'm getting tired, quite frankly of Adil's personal attacks on me especially when I've made a compromise that favors the Azeri editors. -- Aivazovsky 21:24, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no compromise whatsoever on the part of Aivazovsky, he has repeated the same unsubstantiated POV, which also contravenes all other evidence at hand. Plus he has misrepresented nearly all maps posted, and keeps making up dates that suit his POV -- first 1931, now 1927. Exhaustive facts and maps have been provided by several users, and authoritative experts have spoken clearly on the matter, all provided on the Talk page. Meanwhile Aivazovsky does appear to be stalling the process and has been doing it since August 2006 for some reason. --AdilBaguirov 04:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

We had some discussion previously and I don't see what compromise Aivozovsky made. I checked with Calgary University - there is no much information on Andersen whose information is used on page 'Qazakh'.--Dacy69 06:43, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi
Hi.. So how are you doing? I am sorry I couldn't get back to you for your note ten days ago about the place names in alternate languages. I suppose that any changes to the established standard would need a much greater concensus and consultations, so I am ok with the status quo. Baristarim 22:04, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Request
Could you put this proposed addition into the Ali Khamenei page? There is nothing controversial about it. The Behnam 22:27, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Requesting Deletion of test page
Hi, Could you please delete List of mountains in Iran/test page which I created to save the incomplete template I created earlier, Thanks - Marmoulak 23:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

PKK and LTTE
My idea for articles about attacks by terrorist groups is to use the term "List of NAME attacks". NAME is the name of terrorist group. It should be a standard name of category in Wikipedia. If you try to find an analogue of PKK, we should remember LTTE.

LTTE is the Sri Lankan version of PKK. They are similar; one can say the major differences are their countries and names. I can give evidence for this. What I was trying to change was the name "Turkish-Kurdish conflict" for a more proper name, not the article's text. If there is two identical twin groups, names should be similar. If you call one article “Terrorist attacks by LTTE/PKK Sri Lanka Version", another one as "Causalities of Kurdish-Turkish conflict", it is not objective. I think names - excluding the word "terror"-, should be changed into "attacks by LTTE/PKK Sri Lanka Version", and "Attacks by LTTE/PKK Turkey Version". (My name using the word terror for this article is not good). Former name was "Civilian casualties caused by PKK"; it was not founded as objective. (But, in LTTE and ETA articles this name is used and it is not founded as against objectivity.) Now, the name is "Causalities of Turkish-Kurdish conflict" which is not objective.

"Turkish-Kurdish conflict" name is not for the article names because there is not an ethnic conflict. Do you have any proof for this? There is a Kurdish problem in Turkey. PKK, a Marxist group supported by some Kurds attacks Army, Kurdish feudal forces that support government and civilians. This is not a ethnic conflict because in Turkey, there is not a political tension between Turkish and Kurdish speaking groups. They make marriages; many Kurds live in areas with huge Turkish population. There are Kurdish speaking ministers, i. e. Mehdi Eker. To name this problem as a "Turkish-Kurdish conflict" is not objective, it is pure PKK propaganda. For example in India there was "Muslim-Hindu conflict", people were killing each other. It is not the same as Kurdish problem in Turkey. (See Mustafa Akyol’s book on Kurdish problem in Turkey.)

My proof for PKK/LTTE similarity is :


 * Kurdish terrorist organization Partiya Karkaren Kurdistan (PKK-Kurdistan Workers’ Party) and Tamil terrorist organization Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE), though oceans apart, share many common features. In fact the two organizations mirror one another in many fundamental aspects such as their leadership, methods employed, external aid sources, involvement in trafficking, and child soldiers.


 * The most striking similarity is between those of PKK’s leader Abdullah Ocalan and LTTE leader Velupillai Prabhakaran. Both are in their 50s and come from poor families, yet both managed to attend university. Both began their careers aiming to foment Marxists revolutions in their native lands. When they started their respective organizations in the 1970s, both liquidated rival organizations in existence.


 * While both the PKK and LTTE have murdered the very ethnic people for whose “liberation” they claim to fight, they have engaged in ethnic cleansing in their area of operations. The LTTE has targeted Sinhalis and Muslim Sri Lankans in northern Sri Lanka, while the PKK has murdered scores of ethnic Turks in the predominantly Kurdish-populated southeastern and eastern Turkey. Both terrorist organizations were “started-up” by foreign aid. PKK was supported by Syria and LTTE received Indian help in their early days. While the PKK is involved in trafficking heroin from Iran, the LTTE has been involved in doing the same from the Golden Crescent into Europe. Both organizations extort financial support from their Diaspora in Western Europe, and engage in the smuggling of illegal aliens. Both the PKK and the LTTE continue to recruit and often forcibly kidnap minor children to be deployed as terrorists in their ranks.


 * The two enjoy bilateral relations. In the 1990s, the PKK also developed similar relations with the IRA, ANC, and East Timorese Falantil/Fretilin. The LTTE is connected with the International Federation of Tamils, which the late PKK strongman Kani Yilmaz used to visit in 1997 at the Eelam House in London. In North America, PKK and LTTE trot common ground, despite the fact that both are listed as terrorist organizations by the US State Department, and even filed a joint lawsuit in 1998 to raise funds in the USA. In South Africa, the PKK and the LTTE both developed a presence after the ANC came into power in 1994, opening representative offices (the PKK in Cape Town and the LTTE in Durban). Authorities believe that the PKK may have used the LTTE’s freighter fleet for outgoing heroin shipments from Karachi. A little known fact is that both organizations shared training facilities in the Bekaa Valley in Lebanon. LTTE terrorist were first trained there in 1977 under the tutelage of the Palestinian Fatah, and came into contact with the PKK terrorists who started arriving at the same camps in 1981.


 * LTTE is very active in the international arms trafficking. Both organizations started purchasing arms in Lebanon in the early 1980s when the LTTE was swindled out of large sums of money by Lebanese traders. In addition to Lebanon, the LTTE sourced weapons from Ukraine and Bulgaria. In August 1994, for example, the LTTE bought 50 tons of TNT and ten tons of RDX which they shipped from the Port of Nikolayev through the Turkish Straits using their front shipping company called Carlton Trading. Between 1994 and 1997, the LTTE sourced Russian-made SA7 MANPADs from the Cambodian black market and used these weapons to shoot down Sri Lankan Air Force planes and helicopters. In 1997, the LTTE, used a Stinger missile to shoot down a Sri Lankan Air Force Mi24 Hind attack helicopter. Similarly, the PKK shot down two Turkish Army helicopters in May 1997 using MANPADs of undetermined origin.


 * Perhaps the most vivid example of the PKK-LTTE collaboration is their use of suicide bombers. LTTE has been blazing a trail in this method since a female LTTE suicide bomber (“Black Tigers” as they are nicknamed) murdered Indian Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi in 1991 with five pounds of C4. Since 1995, LTTE Black Tigers have also targeted unarmed civilians. Black Tigers utilize suicide vests which are more sophisticated than the crude contraptions the Palestinian Hamas used to utilize until 1996, the same year that the PKK deployed its first suicide bomber, a female. The PKK suicide bombers (nicknamed “Zilan” after the nome-de-guerre of the 1996 attacker) are almost exclusively females. The PKK launched seven suicide bomb attacks against Turkish targets between 1996 and 1999, and following a four year lull, sent their ninth suicide bomber to work in 2003. Around the same time the LTTE Black Tigers reported back to war after a three year break. http://www.saag.org/papers19/paper1865.html

Note: In Sri Lanka case, religion is different between groups. But, organization of terrorist groups are very similar.

"Attacks by PKK" is suitable for name, isn't it?

Paparokan 23:07, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Huseyincan Celil
I have expanded and updated Huseyincan Celil. Please comment on Talk:Huseyincan Celil or my talkpage if you wish to revert. I have come across news reports referring to Celil by another name - Yu Shanjiang, but I cannot figure out if Shanjiang and Dilaver are supposed to be the same person or not. See KazakhPol 23:57, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Shanjiang is not mentioned in the Wikipedia entry. Why did you remove Category:Terrorism in China when he was convicted of terrorism in China? Was that an accident? KazakhPol 08:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Baloch people
Hello dear i offten see your edits on Baloch people ,it is great to see your work.But i want you to add Arab in (Related ethnic groups) too with Iranian because in many books i have read that Balouch are Iranian or Arab.

Khalidkhoso 00:26, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

here are few links FAMILY family of the khans of Kalat is of Arabic origin,) http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Baluchistan,_British_India]]
 * [] (According to these authorities, the See also:
 * []
 * []
 * []


 * []


 * I will send u soon dear. But most Balouch sites are blocked in pakistan ,even if i try to open it does works.i will try to find some thing good

till then Caio

Khalidkhoso 19:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * i will send some more links and Book names.

Khalidkhoso 01:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes almost all Khalidkhoso 19:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * check this Internet_censorship_in_Pakistan

CrazyInSane
I don't think the editors in question are his sock puppets. Have you done a checkuser? JoshuaZ 03:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :-)
For handling that bit of vandalism. 06:23, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The vandal is back, would you kindly indef. block . Thanks. 12:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Got it. El_C 13:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks El C. 13:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * For sure, anytime. El_C 13:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry to disturb you again but User:Kgeza67 is doing his thing with despite his banned status.  00:57, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Khoikhoi, one last request... I suspect that my user pages are about to be attacked by this user per the attacks I recieved from him the other day. If you would be so kind as to sprotect my talk page and user page that'd be appreciated. Thanks. 01:05, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for the talk page protection. Please note that your edit the User talk:Pschemp has been reverted by another sock. 01:18, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks also
Likewise. Wahkeenah 09:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I confess I don't remember you. I do have a good memory, it's just short. Please refresh mine. :) Wahkeenah 09:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Aha! Yes, it would have been something about "What makes the Hottentot so hot? Who put the 'ape' in apricot?" etc. I am hard pressed to come up with any coy remarks about your current username, though, as I'm unsure how to pronounce it. :) Wahkeenah 09:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * You don't know how to pronounce your own username? Well, then, I guess you can pronounce it any way you want to. :) I'm assuming it means something, but I have no idea what? Wahkeenah 10:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "coy-coy" would probably be as good as any, if the transliteration is correct. A language of Namibia, yes? I don't know much about African languages. I know a few Yiddish/German words here and there. I take "men of men" to mean strong or manly men, men of honor, etc. In Yiddish, the singular term would be "Mensch": a "real man". A good username to have. Even if it requires an explanation. :) Wahkeenah 10:25, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Related to "goy"? I would not discount the possibility. Strong words have a way of surviving through the evolution of language. Maybe you know that "ma" or variations thereof mean "mother" in nearly every language on earth. I wonder what the word for "mother" is in the Namibian language? Wahkeenah 10:44, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I should have said "the language(s) of Namibia". I know the Swahili word for mother is also similar to "ma", but I don't recall exactly what it is. I just find it interesting that "ma" also means mother in Mandarin, and there probably aren't all that many words in common between Mandarin, Swahili, and English. Wahkeenah 10:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Look Khoikhoi, I _honestly_ want to co-operate with you and the other editors by reaching a consensus, do you think that I like having to revert other people and repeat the same things in Talk over and over again? I really want from other editors to understand _why_ their version makes the article a fork, and _why_ unreferenced edits cannot remain in the article. The problem is that nobody wants to co-operate with me, nobody is responding my querries and nobody is trying to find a mutually acceptable solution, I'm practically talking to myself. Cretanforever is not participating in a dialogue, and Gonzo is revert-warring. I'm not getting any responses in Talk and although a consensus about the nature of the article is clear to everybody but Cretanforever and Gonzo, I'm still trying to make them understand. So I really think that reverting to a clearly unreferenced and one-sided version will not help resolve the dispute. In my opinion Cretanforever and Gonzo feel that you're simply on their side, and this is why they refrain from participating in Talk (and not because I've been insulting their people as you previously claimed). If you think I've been insulting anybody then give me a warning or remove my edits. So will you please accept to co-operate with me? Miskin 14:20, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

E-mail
Check your e-mail. -- Aivazovsky 15:37, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Island or Adası
Hi, just a question... What term we had better use when referring to Turkish islands? Of course we can't refer to Büyükada as "Grand Island", but what about the others? Is Marmara Adası or Avşa Adası appropriate, or calling them Marmara Island or Avşa Island will be quite better? Of course it will influence the article names as well. Chapultepec 20:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks a lot. I think we should prefer the most common English name whenever appropriate. Until then. Chapultepec 11:24, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

User Nareklm
Thank you for your contribution to the page Qazakh. I would like to draw your attention to continued vandalism by [User Nareklm] He is removing referenced info on page Urartu and Monte Melkonian. HE also removing my reference on page Udi - I can accept that the last page is disputable. But first two pages - I put referenced info to neutral sources. Nareklm's action is unacceptable.--Dacy69 20:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Khomeini
Hi KhoiKhoi

The following information were previously in Ruhollah Khomeini's article. They were removed with no justification. I added them again.... immediately removed again ...I am surprized to see people added so many negative info about Khomeini without giving him the credit for his positive measures.
 * Here is the part repeatedly deleted:

In 1976, Ayatollah Khomeini issued a fatwa to allow people with hormonal disorders to undergo gender reassignment if they wished, as well as to change their birth certificates to reflect their new gender role. Before the Islamic Revolution in 1979, there was no particular policy regarding transgendered individuals. Iranians with the inclination, means, and connections could obtain the necessary medical treatment and new identity documents.

For many years, breaking the barrier of confinement of the private sphere has been a major source of frustration for advocates of women's rights in Iran. But the Islamic revolution broke the barrier overnight. When Khomeini called for women to attend public demonstration and ignore the night curfew, millions of women who would otherwise not have dreamt of leaving their homes without their husbands' and fathers' permission or presence, took to the streets. Khomeini's call to rise up against the Shah took away any doubt in the minds of many devoted Muslim women about the propriety of taking to the streets during the day or at night.

The late 1980s and early 1990s witnessed a marked increase of employment for women. This increase was much more than the rate prior to the revolution. Such dramatic change in the pattern of labor force participation might not have been possible if Khomeini had not broken the barriers to women entering into the public sphere. Educational attainment for women, also a product of free education and the literacy campaign, contributed to this increase. In fact, today there are more women in higher education than there are men. The Islamic Republic had adopted certain policies to expand educational levels for women in order to ensure that sexual segregation paid off. These policies were to encourage women to become skilled workers in domains exclusive to women. For example, the government set quotas for female pediatricians and gynecologists and set up barriers against women wanting to become civil engineers.

Khomeini supported family planning, a program through which the government called upon women to distribute contraceptives, as well as organ transplants. 

I am not really interested in politics and I am now busy with articles on art and science, particularly Abbas Kiarostami. I am really reluctant to enter a useless edit war with them on such a trivial issue. Please help with this pov problem on this page. Thanks and take care. Sangak 22:06, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Image:Azerirefugees2.jpg
Hey Khoikhoi can you update the information/source/rationale of this image or at least provide it on the NK War page's FA nomination? Thanks. --MarshallBagramyan 05:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

monte melkonian
Apparently these users who remove refrenced info is not going to compromise becuase they are trying to polish his biography. --Dacy69 14:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Last comment
You are right for indicating there are people killed by the Turkish Army. But, it does not mean that there is an ethnic conflict. My idea for the name is "Causalties of the Turkish Government Forces-PKK Conflict". Human Rights Watch also uses the term "Turkish government forces have, in the course of the conflict with the PKK", and it does not use "ethnic conflict" term. Conflict is between Turkish Government Forces-PKK and civilians die on both sides. Paparokan 15:00, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Kaltsef
LOL. But who's the copycat and who's the original? I think Kaltsef was earlier, wasn't he? :-) --Fut.Perf. ☼ 15:43, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Pashtun people
I'll have time for a complete read on Wednesday; some questions for now. The article seems severely undercategorized; can you look for appropriate categories? Wikilink all full dates in references, so date pref works. Some of your refs are incomplete wrt publisher, last access date, etc. (Pashto report, Ethnologue.com and Iranian-speaking peoples(retrieved 10 January 2007), for example). The Language section is stubby; can it be expanded? Also, the "many speak another language" statement should be cited. Wondering why the mention of performing arts but no mention of visual arts? I'll read on Wednesday, Regards, Sandy Georgia (Talk) 18:11, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Apology
Hi, Khoikhoi. I'm very sorry about the latest trouble i brought about the parole. I accused you for the block but Dmcdevit was quite right in his decision for the revert parole. Sorry, cause i really forgot the Golden Horde is in the list. Apologizing. Best wishes. E104421 21:21, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

This has gone too far...
Look at this. He's trying to provoke a response from Armenian editors. -- Aivazovsky 21:29, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Ceha
Hi, is appealing his block. Can you explain what the evidence is? I'm not familiar with the Africa paprika case. But what I find weird about this as a sockpuppetry case is that Ceha is actually an older account (from November 2005) than Afrika himself (from July 2006). Fut.Perf. ☼ 01:18, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, thanks. I guess I'd prefer an unblocking. Fut.Perf. ☼ 06:39, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Image:Danielburial3.jpg
Thanks for uploading Image:Danielburial3.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:


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3RR
Khoi how are you? This gentelmen Buffadren made 3RR violation. Also his behavior is getting out of control. Please help. Thanks. Ldingley 14:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

I've already been doing my best with the Turkish editors (in general) and I'll do the same with you. But the fact that I have occasionally criticised Cretanforever's and Gonzo's behaviour by referring to them as the "Turkish editors" shouldn't be generalised to those "Turkish editors in wikipedia" or those "Turks". Although everybody knows who I was been referring to, the past few days I've only been using their names in order to avoid misunderstandings. Miskin 15:44, 13 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Just checking Khoikhoi's talk page for the latest gossips and I come across my name. Miskin, I must say I am offended that you, behind my back, label me by my nationality. Putting myself aside, Cretanforever is probably one of the most articulate and intellectual Turkish Wikipedians here, show more class please.--Doktor Gonzo 09:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

pls discipline this user
please look at this language and discipline this user --Dacy69 19:45, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah after you block Dacy for violating the 3RR there please and thanks. <font color="#0099FF">Nareklm 19:52, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Users User:Fadix and User:Nareklm persistently attack a group of Wikipedia contributors, often using a foul language and personal attacks at Talk:Nagorno-Karabakh and User_Talk:Khokhoi. Please, investigate the issue. Thanks. Atabek 20:57, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Discipline the user? I hope you don't mean in a "kinky" way?--Doktor Gonzo 09:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It was quite several days ago, and he was not admin, just regular user. But Fadix and Fedayee insulted me a second time (check Talk Page on Armenian Revolutionary Federation) I am fed up with that. Admins do nothing against them. Instead another admin dmcdevit (or smth like that who does not deserve to be admin) blocked me. And I am going to file complain on Arbitrage Committee.--Dacy69 16:53, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Yoy can find relevant diff here I don't mind your advocacy but I am tired to listen to insults and wait for reaction of admins.

I'd like also comment on Fedayee input below, as well. He insulted me on other pages and removed my references. So did Fadix. I have every reasonable and reputable sources to support my edit on pages like Urartu and Monte Melkonian. And I am really fed up with this accusations, vandalism and removal of well-sourced information and references. I will resort to dispute resolution (up to Arbitration) and will prove my case - I did once and won; and will do it again. But many disputes can be resolved without going far. However, opponents should be reasonable. So far I see that insults go unpunished.--Dacy69 23:52, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Move
I had a small problem with a move at Akkoc v Turkey to Akkoç v. Turkey since it was redirected the other way around by the creator of the article. Can you do the move? Cheers! Baristarim 23:42, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

(PS. Added the dot. ECHR court rulings use the diacritics and "v." dot format rather than the "v" format . Cheers!) 23:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC) taken care of - sorry for taking up space! Baristarim 00:01, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Azeris
I see what you mean, but I thought that the time frame was for 1918-1925 and the Turkish-Armenian War after which many Azeris did flee the new state of Armenia (and vice versa I suppose). Maybe we can keep both in some way? Baristarim 02:45, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Qazakh
This is going nowhere fast. -- Aivazovsky 02:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

re Circassians edit
Sorry...and thanks. I looked at a dozen pages where I thought I might find the proper way to indicate the language of the link, and came up emptyhanded. Cheers, Tom e r<sup style="font-variant: small-caps; color: #129dbc!important;">talk 05:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Ararat arev
May have another sock so I taged it.User:Aramaster3000  Planetary Chaos  Talk to me  19:09, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Just a comment they both edit different articles Ararat arev is more into Armenian history and doesn't edit things related to Azeris, i asked him and he said its not him. <font color="#0099FF">Nareklm 22:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

You said we had to reach consensus and you would agree by now that a consensus has been reached, or better put, reflected. How come you are still reverting my edits while I'm trying to restore the original version? That version was changed by dictatorial means, and not even once you asked from Cretanforever to reach a consensus or even provide some sources. Honestly I don't understand where you're coming from on this one. I mean besides all the "details" concerning POV-fork, POV-pushing, lack of references etc, can't you see that Cretanforever is refusing to participate in discussion?? What are we supposed to do, the man is literally ignoring us, and when he answers he does it with sarcasms. And yet still sit back and wait for him like idiots. We are the ones who are waiting, for his version is active as we speak. And if you ask me, this is going on because he thinks that you are backing him up. Proof? Check out the second POV-fork he created in Crete Province, Ottoman Empire‎. You once justified his passive behaviour as a result of my allegedly being rude to him and "to his people". I still refuse such accusations. If you think that I have somehow wronged, insulted with no valid reason, then please do provide me with some diffs. Miskin 22:40, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I thought it would be best if you didn't take any sides, and apparently I was proven right. I do believe that Cretanforever's passive behaviour is as result of the support you have seemingly given him. Me, Macrakis, FPS have discussed and agreed that the current state of the article is a POV-fork. From what you said in Talk, you seemed to agree as well. Me and Macrakis actually spent some time coming up with sources and arguments, which received sarcastic comments in response. I can't believe you're actually saying that Cretanforever's behaviour is justified due to my alleged uncivil behaviour. Do you have any diffs to back this up with? Miskin 17:39, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

And another thing, you said that I have been "insulting Cretanforever's people" (remains unproved). What about all implications about "Cretans not having the right to claim an ethnic identity due to the island's prior history of foreign occupation"? This to some people is very insulting, not to mention exteremist argumentation. It is the logic of Turkish nationalist scholarship which claims that Greek Cypriots shouldn't be considered 'Greek' because they are allegedly of mixed stock. This stance has been interpreted by Western scholars as "Turkey's refusal to allow Cypriots to claim an ethnic identity, thus giving them the status a subject people". What about Baristarim's other extreme nationalist arguments about Greeks not going very far therefore not being entitled to many historical claims. Does this look very normal to you? I'm curious to know your definition of "insulting one's people". Miskin 18:10, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Personal Attacks
Dear Khoikhoi c this UserDargay[] having personal attacks on Murtaza Bhutto. Khalidkhoso 23:29, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi
Hi Khokhoi, why am I have trouble redirecting Kurdish genocide towards Al-Anfal campaign? I have put the redirect in but it is still showing the contents of older edits. Thanks, --A.Garnet 21:59, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Urgent
Hello. Please see this massive removal of HEAVILY SOURCED INFORMATION: These socks need to go, but no one will do a check user! I am currently putting the article up for protection to stop this silly and unnecessary edit war. Elsanaturk obviously has nationalistic feelings at play here.Azerbaijani 03:34, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * But you do understand why I would think that they are socks dont you? Same personal attacks, same type of editing, same form of talking, etc...Please tell them that they cannot remove sourced information just because they dont like it.Azerbaijani 15:31, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

request
Can you please show me how to deactivate my wiki account? I am leaving wikipedia for good. Thanks. Afghan Historian 04:07, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Kiarostami
I am going to nominate Abbas Kiarostami for A-class soon. It is now under peer review. It would be nice if you could take a look at it again. I also worked out references as you suggested before in adition to many other copyedits. Thanks and have a nice day. Sangak 14:56, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Would you please let me know how I can nominate an article for A-class? I've found GA nomination and FA nomination system, how about A-class? Thanks.Sangak 20:36, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your helps. The article is under peer review and I got some positive and helpful feedback. My understanding of the WP:Size is that the size limit is only a suggestion and not a binding rule. I have seen several FA with more than 50Kb. Do you think the size is a serious issue? I already split the article to three articles Koker trilogy and Filmography of Abbas Kiarostami. I think any further shortenning or splitting or compactification reduce the readability and quality of the article specially for non native speakers of English language. I also wrote the article in a way that a reader can easily skip a section and go to the next one if he/she prefers. At the end splitting will not change the total size of whole project. Any suggestion on that? Thanks again. Sangak 11:15, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

a favour please
Hi khoikhoi. Can you please do me this favor? On this article, Latif Pedram, there is a redundant redirect,. Can you please remove it? Behnam 15:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks a ton! Behnam 06:27, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Thessaloniki
Hi Khoikhoi. I appreciate your answer. As well as your "compromise" with other users. However, think about the intro again. Its not serious not to mention the Trade Fair and the Film Festival instead of "a custard-filled pastry sold in bakeries and patisseries"(which is very tasty but not a significant issue). As for the consensus, I didn't know that we are in negotiations. Thanks JFKennedy 18:25, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

That looks better. Thanks anyway. JFKennedy 18:30, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Fadix block
Khoi, Fadix is totally right man. Adil and his "gang" have done no good to any Armenian article. They continuously add controversial material w/out even discussing it and when discussed and proven logically wrong, they stubbornly don't accept the facts. They successfully managed to lock ARF article (which I have been working on for 2-3 months w/out a single problem, even asking for neutral advice on the peer review page), they did the same for Monte Melkonian, Urartu, and tried the same for Nagorno-Karabakh war. Please look at this in NKwar talk page, how can someone be taken seriously after such a silly, obvious attempt at tarnishment? Dacy69 has just filed a report or something on me and Fadix for an "insult" fadix has been warned already for and just because he cannot accept the fact that he has been proven wrong, the entire debacle is in the ARF talk page...you be the judge. Look at Adil's comments such as this one All of the above hate all Azerbaijani, Turkish and in general Turkic users. or this one on my own nickname ''I wonder if it's the result of so many ASALA terrorists who came from Syria and Lebanon to kill Azerbaijanis, and brought with them the "glorious" terminology too? Fedayin came to represent the same to the people of Caucasus as SS Stormtroopers in WWII. Consider changing your offensive user name first -- bravery and knowledge of a user is not dependent on a user name, but on his/her qualifications. If these lack, no loud self-given names can compensate it.'' It's hard to remain civil when stuff like this is present, especially by a user that is already blocked. - Fedayee 05:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi
Check your e-mail please. --Mardavich 05:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Personal Attack
Hi a user in Scythian Rockus01 is constantly attacking me behind his monitor. I would appreciate a warning to him or all sides. Since his method does not move the discussion forward. --alidoostzadeh 14:12, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Move
Can you move Armenian question to Armenian Question? Thanks! -- Aivazovsky 14:50, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

template
I know that for some users, such as our Persian friend SouthernComfort, there was a Retired template across the old userpage and a request for no messages. Is it possible for you to get one for me? Thanks! Afghan Historian 18:24, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

thanks
Thanks.

A last thing. Can you post to the guy on the Armenian Genocide talk page who is discussing about the taxation and Milleti this link? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Armenian_Genocide/Archive_15#Proposals_for_changes

He wanted them, and would not be fair for him to wait 3 days to get them. You could even make the changes on the main article yourself, since this valid criticism has been brought before. Fad (ix) 19:37, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
Hi, Khoikhoi, and thank you for your touching words. I had some internet problems (and still have no outgoing mail), so I only checked your message today. In truth, I did ponder leaving wiki for good - if you have read some past messages from some users who shall remain unnamed, you may know what had disgusted me in that particular week (I would not have let that get to me, only it was becoming surreal when i found out I was "a communist" etc.).

Had I not eventually decided to return because I just couldn't stay away, your message would have surely brought me back (it and similar one I received from Biruitorul). I feel I should be the one to thank you for all those things, though, and for much more (for one, your majestic way of dealing with Bonnie and Greier is one of the most entertaining things I ever saw on wikipedia).

I also need to apologize for having bombarded you with requests to intervene on that particular page - you may not be at all interested in the subject, but fewer and fewer admins that would have taken an interest seemed to be active, and you have always been extremely fair in dealing with prima facie stuff (and not only). When I first edited that page, it was in a sorry-ass state, and I felt especially insulted when my neutrality (and integrity) where doubted by some users who only produced and pushed untenable and inflammatory material. The debate was and is dense, and the topic arguably obscure (for one, virtually all sources were Romanian-language ones) - I can easily picture that this may have been pretentious, but I could not have dealt with all that on my own. Especially after a chorus of users (surely, not all of them) began to discuss not only my character and motivation, but also supposed "first-hand information" which is not at all relevant to any article. In any case, if I do get carried away at times, I owe excuses to you and others, and not to people whose main contribution to wikipedia so far has been to insult me.

Well, I'm back, and I aim to stay. Here's to boogieing down, Dahn 20:39, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Request for reviewing a BLP
Hi, would you please check the last month changes of this article and its talk page. there is a very little probability that the user who tries to hide the nationality of that person (beside the reference of Time magazine)is the person in question of the article. I think it may need a careful handling regarding that policy, so I contacted an admin, take care,--Pejman47 00:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Nagybocskó
Hi! I translated them: Velykyy Bychkiv and Bocicoiu Mare. This village sure had its lot of history... BTW the Toledo pic on top of this page is amazing, it's always refreshing to unexpectedly find gems like this on what I expect to be ordinary talk pages :) – Alensha   talk  00:40, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It's done - didn't require much work, as others got there first. Biruitorul 17:05, 19 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi to all of you. I think part of the problem of incorrect appearance of Velykyy Bychkiv and Bocicoiu Mare on wikipedia (in 2-3 articles I editted, and if someone coppied the spelling from those, then more) was MY carelessness when I editted those. I am sorry, and I am glad you have fixed it (thank you to all), and I will also know how to spell it (many maps and text have Vel. Bychkiv, which is not very informative). There is also a small problem with correctly naming Northern Maramureş recently. Your oppinions? [P.S. The map of toledo indeed is exceptional - both the skyline, and the colour of the sky, maybe especially the later. Did you take the picture yourself or found it?]:Dc76 20:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the situation is very similar to that in Komárom/Komárno. I don't know about Lonka, it was just a small mention in the Hungarian article; I thought it's just a part of B. Mare. I'll ask the original author of the article (he wrote literally thousands of articles on small towns, maybe he knows more about it.) (Sorry for writing this here in the middle of your talk page, I have a phobia of opening several sections for the same subject :) – Alensha   talk  20:01, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi,

I asked Darinko (our village expert) about Lonka/Luh/Lunca la Tisa, and they're indeed the same – I clarified it in the B. Mare article. It should have its own article but we don't have enough info on it. Also, it is some way a part of B. Mare now, but not incorporated into it, if I understand correctly; this seems to be some peculiarity of Romanian administration, maybe someone with more knowledge on that subject could explain it. – Alensha   talk  15:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

They don't contradict each other: Nagybocskó was first mentioned in 1358 and Németbocskó/Újbocskó was first mentioned in 1373. They were later united with each other and with a village called Kisbocskó. This big, united village, which lay on both banks of the river, also had the name Nagybocskó, as Nagybocskó was apparently the largest of the three united villages (in fact, it's not clear whether Kisbocskó was an independent village or only a part of Nagybocskó at the time of the unification). After the Trianon treaty the big village was cut into two halves again, and Bocicoiu Mare is the part that was called Németbocskó or Újbocskó before the unification. Velykyy Bychkiv is the other half, which is across the river. – Alensha   talk  15:50, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi, I am asking people who have contributed or are interested in Northern Maramureş to talk about the recent change of the article name and some stuff (mainly spelling) inside. You can find some opinions here and here. Please, leave you comments Talk:Northern Marmaroshchyna. We might need the assistance of an admin to redo certain things (changing the name back, for ex.). Of course, let's first see that everyone agrees on a good name. Thank you.:Dc76 20:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * About Lunca/Lonka, see also Bocicoiu Mare. The Romanian administrative system "peculiarity" is as follows: a comune consists of 1 or several villages (in this case four or five, incl. Bocicoiu Mare and Lunca la Tisa), which have a single common mayor and administration. This is because some small villages (like 100 to 1000 people and only 10 to 30 sq km of land) do not have resourses to keep a school, services, officials, etc, separately. The councilmen would be elected from villages separately, e.g. two per village, so that each one's voice be heard. The villages have the option to organize a local referendum and separate. But usually the opposite happens, they want to join to achieve more together. According to this, there are 4 streets in the comune, called:


 * Necunoscuta (Unknown), with numbers and postal code
 * Sat Craciunesti (Village Craciunesti), idem
 * Sat Lunca la Tisa (Village Lunca la Tisa), idem
 * Sat Tisa (Village Tisa), idem
 * And, also see this, which officially confirms that there are only 4 villages, those above: Bocicoiu Mare, Tisa, Crăciuneşti, Lunca la Tisa. Area: 24,02 sq km, incl. 1,6 in localities (i.e. where there are houses) and 22,42 outside (i.e. forests, agriculture, etc). Population: 4,476. No of households: 1,366. No. of living quoters: 1,374 (apparently some people have two houses built near by). Kindergardens: 4. Schools: 6. No high school. Main economic activities: agriculture, manufacturing of bricks, woodcraft, comercial activities (meaning perhaps shops, etc). Interested to tourists: 1) etnographic museum "Pipas" in Tisa 2) Băile Crăciuneşti, i.e. Craciunesti baths with (apă mineralizată), i.e. mineralized water. 3) Movilă naturală, i.e. natural knoll. (Tax) facilities for investors (who): make bricks, use minaralized water, fitting of the leasure zone Tepliţa. Investement projects (by the state): 1) "rehabilitation" of he system of drinking water; 2) to asphalt and modernize the road Bocicoiu Mare - Lunca la Tisa. :-) :Dc76 21:05, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Please help me
Hi, We protested against one user Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#POV pushing

I gathered some proofs against himUser:Sa.vakilian/AFC1 and I found that you had some problem with him.

How can you help us with this issue. --Sa.vakilian 06:22, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Edit to Tibet
I think it's fine, considering that the original was indeed unsourced. -- ran (talk) 16:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Nice work...
In fact I am sarcastic since you protected articles "Demographic history of Vojvodina" and "Kruševlje" with version written by known vandal Bendeguz. You can clearly see from his contributions that for several days he edit only those two articles with purpose to prove a political point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Bendeguz There has been a long discussion on the talk page about this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Demographic_history_of_Vojvodina where he simply ignored my basic argument that census from 1910 did not recorded ethnicity but only language and therefore it is clear that map posted by Bendeguz do not represent census results but only his personal interpretation of census results (and interpretations of those results could be very different than this). The second article is just example of trolling where user Bendeguz want to impose word "occupation" for establishing of Serbian rule and usage of that word is POV because we speak about village in Serbia. Protecting article with his version will only encourage him to expand his disruptive behaviour. PANONIAN  (talk)  00:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand procedure with page protection, but I am not sure that user Bendeguz understand it too, so my concern was that he could understand this as support for his disruptive behaviour. Anyway, the problem with Demographic history of Vojvodina article is that both maps are same - the only different thing in them is legend. Basically, I just corrected map made by user Bendeguz making it correct because census from 1910 recorded only language and religion, but did not recorded ethnicity. Bendeguz draw this map using language data from census, but claimed in map that it is in fact ethnicity data, which is just his personal interpretation of census results. Fact is that Hungarian language was in that time also spoken by non-Hungarians such as Jews and Bunjevci, so claim of user Bendeguz that all speakers of Hungarian language are ethnic Hungarians is simply not correct. It is just his personal POV that he want to push here. Regarding Kruševlje article, I did not started discussion on the talk page because there is no use starting discussion witrh Bendeguz about this, but you are right of course, so I will explain on the talk page there what are problems with that article, so other Wikipedia users could have knowledge about the situation. PANONIAN   (talk)  17:24, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I explained problems on the talk page now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kruševlje Regarding my own reverts, I had experience with user Bendeguz in the past too, but he never reverted one article so much - he usually stopped after several revets, so I thought that he will stop now too, but seems that he changed his behaviour, so other measures should be indeed used dealing with him - let just see can he prove his case on the talk page, especially reasons why he reverted all my grammatical corrections in the Kruševlje article. Regarding question whether you should put "dispute tags" there, I do not see that it would be of any help to these two articles, so it is up to you whether you will put those tags or not, I will simply use talk pages there to justify my own reverts, i.e. if Bendeguz start to use them too. However, the discussion on the talk page of Kruševlje was just started by me, but discussion on the talk page of Demographic_history_of_Vojvodina was finished long time ago and Bendeguz did not even answered my last posts there, but he anyway reverted the article. PANONIAN   (talk)  22:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, let see: perhaps you can propose some compromise about problems in Kruševlje article or ask some other admin to see the situation and propose compromis - I certainly do not believe that I can have any compromise with Bendeguz, he simply hate me because I am Serb and it is hard to have compromise with such person. But, if some neutral admin hear what both of us have to say, perhaps he can offer some compromise solution - nothing else could be done for this article until it is locked like this. Regarding explanation of Bendeguz why he use term "ethnic" instead "linguistic" in his map is because of his POV that all speakers of Hungarian language are ethnic Hungarians which is simply not truth because there for example was many Hungarian-speaking Jews and POV of Bendeguz could be therefore valid only if he prove that those Jews never existed. PANONIAN   (talk)  00:34, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Khoikhoi! I see your talk page is a great battlefield, and I must also protect myself on your talk page, because Panonian accused me. I apologize. Panonian's behavior is as of Indian squaw, he accuses everybody for everything. I asseverate I don't hate Panonian nor Serbs!, just don't like lies and misstatements. If they are Panonian's lies, then I don't like his lies. I apologize once more. --Bendeguz 22:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks on Mauco / suspected Bonaparte sockpuppet
Admin assistance requested: What is the possibility of taking disciplinary action against User:Catarcostica ..? This obvious sockpuppet is exclusively on Transnistria-related articles. He is disruptive. Shows up out of nowhere, and immediately launches into me personally with quite a bit of knowledge of the issues. His language skills betrays him as a Romanian, and the insider reference to Bonaparte is telling.

Some examples of the latest abuse, incivility and personal attacks against me:


 * From Talk:War_of_Transnistria: Your friend Mauco will never be convinced ...only if US will speak russian... that is it ...I know that I should be neutral ...by I am...I am neutral .. but that Mauco is not...he is a russian propaganda puppet ( don't forget that).


 * From Talk:Transnistria: ''To Mauco: [...] unfortunately for you, I just find out your IP, your ISP and your true identity.....unfortunately for me I can't pay you a visit soon...but expect me ... [...]


 * I'm a new member of Wikipedia. If you want to count my opinion on any pool, and to simplify the process...please add one vote against anything that is proposed by Mauco.


 * Answer to Mauco:( daca esti bonaparte si ai ceva interese pe care nu le inteleg acu ..te rog trimite un mesaj ca altfel mori cu mine de gat)....


 * From Talk:Disputed status of Transnistria: If you don't know by now everything that is writed by WM can be considerded fake or at least soviet opinion.

He of course also made some undiscussed mainspace edits, which no one took seriously except for User:MariusM who twice in one day attempted to restore them after other editors had correctly reverted them. I am sure that I am not the only one who feels that resources are being drained by sort of interruption, although I am the one specifically targeted for this guy's ire. - Mauco 00:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Re:Re: Personal Attacks
Dear Khoikhoi Sorry for late reply,i was away so could not answer you.I could not find warning to put on that user page so i used WP:NPA and warned user.anyways thanks for correction. I can write "Nawab Akbar Shahbaz Khan Bugti" in sindhi script.I can speak Balouch(native) but can not write it .We just speak it in Home and Balouchi is written in Persian script so i do not have any idea about it.i will ask other user to write it for me. Khalidkhoso 04:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Brahui people
They are Balouch ,i seen you have removed tage from Brahui people. can i know why? Khalidkhoso 04:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Khoikhoi .You are defender of Balouch Related articles. Khalidkhoso 04:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Community ban
Salam. There's a discussion on "community ban" of Patchuli please come and write your idea .--Sa.vakilian 04:44, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Please describe your experience there.--Sa.vakilian 04:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Shahbaz_Khan_Bugti
Dear check this i have written His name in Sindhi scriptShahbaz_Khan_Bugti. Khalidkhoso 05:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Offten i write Balouchi in Sindhi Script but offical way is Persian Script( and sindhi is mix of persian and Arabic script).

Khalidkhoso 05:53, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Appreciation
Thanks! Adieu Afghan Historian 05:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Gabol
Dear check this [] One user come with resource and stuff.We can use this on artilce what do you say?. i was working Gabol and trying to make these as refrence but it did not work.Please can you have look on it? Cheers Khalidkhoso 06:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

You are Welcome. Khalidkhoso 09:05, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Signpost updated for February 19th, 2007.
You are receiving this message because you have signed up for the Signpost spamlist. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, simply remove your name from the list. Ralbot 07:19, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

About user Dahn
Khoi, next time someone flatters you, please step back and ask yourself if enciclopaedic work is better done by forming a clique with Dahn and unquestionably reverting to his versions, or rather by trying to understand what is going on by yourself. Do you have any idea about Vladimir Tismăneanu? Are you competent on this topic? If not, your behavior is inappropriate. Yes, you were sublime in reverting to Dahn's version simply because he asked you to. But please notice that he conflicts with basically all other editors on this article. He did 5 reverts in the past 3 hours, just for your info if you care to know. (Icar 14:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC))

Bonaparte
Economy of Romania again. Please confirm.  /FunkyFly.talk_  19:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

PNG
Are you referring to the higher percentage of Muslims on Irian Jaya? My guess would be that many of those individuals, fairly recent arrivals from the rest of Indonesia, would either go back in the event of independence/union or would learn to live with it - perhaps like Russians in Estonia and Latvia. And yes, they have had divergent histories, but so did the two Germanies, for instance, which slowly seem to be moving on from their division. Perhaps a federation would work best at first. In any case, the only way to really find out would be a referendum, which I don't think is in the cards any time soon. Biruitorul 20:37, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

3RR
Violation of 3RR,according to Wikipedia rules users need to be Blocked? []. Khalidkhoso 21:55, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Safavids
Hi Khoikhoi. My version was sourced (compare the two versions). I tried to keep all sources. In fact, I simply copied the info from the "Shah Ismail" article. First, I wanted to revert Darius444, but then decided to do some copy edit on the article and to add some more references. Tājik 00:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * BTW: this is the new intro I have prposed: Tājik 00:21, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have edited the article, because the current version is not accepted by at least 7 members. There has been discussion for at least 10 days now, and all have failed so far. By doing some copy-edit, I wanted to propose a new version to discuss, and - as you can see in the article's history - I asked the participants not to revert my changes automatically, but to think about it at least for 1 or two days. Atabek, however, did revert it automatically ... the current version will not bring any compromise. And since the Turkish fraction does not accept new suggestions even for 1 day (as I had asked for), I do not see any positive results in near future. And this time, it's not my fault. Tājik 00:32, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hm...
Hi, and excuse me for not answering in full, but I happened to notice something relevant. I can only recall one [notorious] user who has called you "Khoi" before Icar did (btw, I don't know if you know what that alludes to, but I can tell you it's an insult). User check? Dahn 01:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi Khoikhoi: I write your name in full so that there can be no more childish interpretations. Yes, with a lot of imagination and a different spelling you can get from half your nick to a "shameful word" in Romanian, but which is NEVER used as an insult. Your friend Dahn is perhaps the first to notice this link, kuddos to him for bringing it up. We are here on an English page, where such insinuations show immaturity. "User check? User check?" How pathetic. (Icar 08:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC))

Gorani
Historically, gorani has been considered a branch of Kurdish, and Gorans themselves identify as Kurdish, and Ardalan principality which was founded by a Kurd from Diyarbakir (Bawa Aradalan) adopted Gorani as the court language. Even until mid 1960s, many Kurds (non-Gorans, soranis) in western Iran used to write Gorani poems, so in a way Kurds feel kind of very attached to it. Even in modern sorani, some Gorani words are borrowed and used for new concepts such as yane(house) which is used for club in modern sorani. Britannica also considers it as a branch of Kurdish. However some scholars think of it as a different language. So there is some controversy.Heja Helweda 03:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Conventional longform for titles of de facto nations
Hey. What do you think about my proposal as outlined here (note: not TRNC-specific). All the best, El_C 08:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: vandal warning
I will, because it is a vandalism.

"seemingly respected democratic freedoms, but was governed using some fascist laws called decrees (see the Bene%C5%A1 decrees)" is offensive vandalism. See Fascism.  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 11:13, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Unsourced tag for offensive nazi statement ? If I will edit "USA is lead by some fascist George Bush" will you put the tag there instead of revert ? (Don't take it offensive please, just as an example).  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 11:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * ok, I thought you agree with that statement instead I did not hit the point you criticize the vandal warning usage. Sorry, his edits warmed my blood too much.  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 11:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry again, I am shamed. Mazal tov in editing.  ≈Tulkolahten≈ ≈talk≈ 11:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

endorsement
I wondered if you are enforcing (or endorsement) this text that you have added. If you read the GA failure all the arguments of GA faılure ıs in the text of your addition. As you know, there is a distinction between a person (biography) and an ideology. The person is Ataturk, and the ideology is Atatürk's Reforms, in the text that you endorse. Something that extends beyond a person's activities belongs to the ideology. I do not know, what is your position, how you will approach this with a text that does not have citations? However I intend to bring quality into this article, and your addition (enforcement or endorsement) does have a lot of problems. Hope you take time on this issue, you will recognize that the concepts you endorse with this text is already included in the article or in the Atatürk's Reforms. Thanks. OttomanReference 15:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I resent that you demise all my efforts into "Khoikhoi>>make much sense to hide the information." The separation of Atatürk's biography and Atatürk's reforms are clear and any non biased person can see it. Besides there is more than enough links to Atatürk's reforms from Atatürks biography. LETS CONCENTRATE ON THE REAL ISSUE: The section you added (endorsing) is huge and contains many different things (arguments) which does not show a coherency. I'm requesting from you (who is an ADMINISTRATOR); remove the arguments (especially non-cited) from your endorsement which is below par level. The section as you added has things which can not be endorsed and this is my support. You are a stringer Kurd activist which means you have a bias; if you can not appreciate the greatness of ATATURK (to kurds), it only proves your limited knowledge of this period. Thanks and I'm looking for your efforts in the mentioned section. --OttomanReference 14:11, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

help re: "inappropriate external links"
Khoikhoi - thanks for your welcome message; but I would like clarification of your comments about "inappropriate external links." I think I understand why my addition to the "Genocide" page might be considered inappropriate, because the added link is not an overview of the general topic, and the other links appear to be such. I notice that the added link on "Population history of American indigenous peoples" has not been removed, and I gather this is because the link is among similar links to sub-topics and examples of the general topic. I am not clear about the removal of the added link on the "Henry Bouquet" page; was it removed because it should not be in the "References" section, but in another section, perhaps something like "Other sources"? I look forward to your further help. --Pderrico 16:44, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Request re Tajik's attacks
Khoikhoi, I would like to ask you to warn or explain to User:Tajik that he needs to take it easy and stop personal attacks upon me on Talk:Safavid_dynasty. I am not posting this to Wikipedia:ANI as not to create extra thread and conflict, but this really needs to stop. Please, look at some of his quotes:
 * You are by far the biggest hypocrite on the talk page, Atabek.
 * You proved your hypocracy even with the source you added to the text
 * you are totally incapable of properly discussing certain issues
 * Since User:Atabek constantly vandalizes other Wikipedian's edits

I am frankly tired of these baseless accusations, when I tried hard and came to consensus with several users on Safavid Dynasty page. Also, I would like to stop this battle, as user Tajik just does not want to agree with facts, so is there any way, we can put this page into independent arbitration? Thanks. Atabek 17:11, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Please do not twist words. I purposely "wikified" the term "hypocrite" in order to give its actualy meaning: someone who pretends something although, in reality, he has some other aims. You were caught falsefying and cutting sources, using misinterpretations, etc. Besides that, you reverted others changes within 2-5 minutes. Khoikhoi should also take a closer look to the article's history where you have broken the 3RR (4 rv's within 24h). I gave you a hole bunch of facts, and - unlike you - I presented my suggestion in the talk page, wherelese you provocated and started edit wars with various other users. You have not tried anything, and that'S why there is a constant discussion and edit-war since the beginning of the year - mostley because you do not accept other people's sources and facts. Tājik 20:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * @ Khoikhoi: could you please take a look at List of Turkic states and empires. Thanks. Tājik 20:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

big long quote in Iranian Revolution
Sa.vakilian went to some trouble to translate a long quote by khomeini ("a commandment") for the Iranian Revolution article but it is rather long and may not be following wikipedia form. We created a quotation section at the end that I'm thinking might suit it better. Please weigh in with an opinion at (Any other ideas on how to improve Iranian Revolution would be welcome too.) Thanks --Leroy65X 17:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi! I was very surprised at seeing this recent article which you also saw: Macrohistorical battles tied to the existence of European civilisation. I've listed it for deletion. What does it mean "a battle tied to the existence of European civilisation"? What are the criterias of this "existence", not to say of this "European civilisation"? Remember the (real life) debate about the inclusion, or not, of Catholicism as a criteria of the "European civilisation" in the Treaty for a Constitution of Europe? We don't really seem to agree on what is this "civilisation", of what it is composed, and much less of its "existence". Reminds me of the ideological assertions of the Argentine priest, close to the Cité catholique group (tied to the OAS), Antonio Cardinal Caggiano's prologue to Jean Ousset's Le Marxisme-Léninisme (1961). Caggiano was the ideological caution of the so-called "dirty war" carried out by the Argentine militaries... Not the best reference for a Wikipedia article... I hope you let us know your thoughts about this one, but I would be most sad to see this article remain in this state. Tazmaniacs 19:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Uluj Ali
Hi! Yes, Bardakçı IS a tabloid historian. However, he is overrated in Turkey. It is good to find someone who approaches him and his works in a wiser way than many Turks do. His sexual appetite/performance may bear or not bear any importance. I just wanted to add a little kink to the article and the info was sure cited. Mea culpa. Ciao! Behemoth 20:53, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

violates WP:TALK
Dear this User User:81.100.101.248 is writing useless statements and violating WP:TALK [],[],[],[],[].I do not know which warning to put on his page Khalidkhoso 20:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Worst fears confirmed
See the Qazakh talk page. User:Mikkalai has attacked Andersen and is "strongly inclined to move for removal of all his maps from wikipedia as unreliable." That means the Azerbaijan Democratic Republic and Democratic Republic of Armenia article will plunge into endless revert wars. If you thought what you saw the last few days was bad, just wait until this new conflict erupts. -- Aivazovsky 23:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Orignal research tag removed
I have placed a WP:NOR tag on a page to initiate a discussion, which has been removed repeatedly by another editor who claims that I have misunderstood the policy. Now even though I havge not touched the contents of the article, I have been warned of 3RR for reinserting the tag. Surely this I have the right to reinsert the tag as long as I am not changing the contents. I would also appreciate your thoughts on WP:NOR.--Niohe 03:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Niohe placed the original research tag on the article because Chinese classics are used as sources. This is a wholly inaccurate interpretation of WP:NOR.  This is a simple case.  You can read the discussion we've been having in the talk page.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 03:25, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Khoikhoi, Thanks for reinserting the tag at a more appropriate place. I pasted your comment to my user page to Talk:Yuan (surname) for reference, hope you don't mind.--Niohe 03:49, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Personal Attack
Hi Khoikhoi. Here is one from barefact:. --alidoostzadeh 06:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Names
Hi, the same should be spelled Καρς (without an accent), I've never heard of the name Καρσούντα and it gets no Google hits so it may be advisable to remove it. As for the PGG names, what you added translates as Pontic Greek genocide allegations. The reason I'm adding a Turkish name is because many of the Pontic Greek refugees only spoke Turkish and not to try to imply acceptance in Turkey or anything (the article anyway says it is not accepted in Turkey). An issue I am concerned about with the names is calling the Pontic Greeks Pontus Rumları. As far as I know, the name Pontus isn't used much in Turkey; the call them Black Sea Greeks (Karadeniz Rumları) or something like that. Do you know any native Turkish speakers we could ask?--Domitius 11:17, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Just a note: I don't see why we need a Turkish or Greek translation at PGG at all. My understanding was we don't normally have non-English versions of designations of events or concepts just because the topic of an article deal with some non-English-speaking country. Foreign names are for things like placenames or person names. For instance, we don't do "The French Revolution (in French: Révolution française) was...". Nor do we do: "The Arabian horse (Arabic: حصان عربي) is ...". If naming practices by various people are an issue to be discussed in the article, that can be done further down. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Origin and Ethnicity
Dear Khoikhoi, I always respect you very much and I learnt from you how to start Wikifing.

Many months ago some people add this citation to Azeris’ page:

“In many references, Azerbaijanis are designated as a Turkic people, due to their Turkic language and partial descent from the Oghuz.[37][38][39] “

They claimed that it is based on Americana and Britannica. At that time we accepted this sentence without any question because all theses references are well-known refs. This week I have a time to look at these references. The quote is very dishonest and inappropriate citation. All those references emphasize that Azeris are Originated from combine of older inhabitants including Iranian peoples and others who had lived in Transcaucasia since ancient times, as well as Oghuz Turcoman tribes that migrated to the region in 11th century”

Therefore, this is their time to respect what is written in Britannica, Larousse, etc. Remember that never every body is satisfied with facts. Moreover I think many friends mix up the ethnicity and origin concepts.--<font color="Blue">behmod <font color="Blue">talk  16:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hello. Actually Britannica states simply that they are: "any member of a Turkic people living chiefly in the Republic of Azerbaijan and in the region of Azerbaijan in northwestern Iran." In addition, the emphasis upon their Iranian origins is very inaccurate as many are actually closer to the Caucasian peoples in the genetic and geographic sense. In addition, Turkic denotes a group that is both cultural and linguistic so I'm not sure where the dishonesty you are referring to is from. We painstakingly went through many edits to create a version that everyone could agree upon and this new edit will just re-open the conflicts and edit warring. The Azeris are considered a Turkic people b/c they speak a Turkic language. It's that simple. Tombseye 18:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Undeleting my user page and talkpage
We're going to the Arbcom, can you undelete my userpage and talkpage I have deleted in the past? Fad (ix) 17:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Elsanaturk
I agree that i've done some edit warring on Azerbaijan Democratic Republic page, but I haven't made an edit on Rasulzade page since 25 january and I was not engaged there in edit war. that is my last edit there was done enough before the page was protected and unprotected. so I want Wiki to remove my restrictions on Rasulzade page where I haven't done anything to get it. Elsanaturk 20:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)