User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 4

West Papua
Like this? //Big Adamsky 12:11, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Capitalization
Why do You Capitalize the Words of Certain Articles, such as grizzly bear? It is Not Proper to do so; Wikipedia Usage should Conform, in General, to the Rules of Standard english. -Ikkyu2 20:09, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

white dawg
I disagree with the changing of ==='s to =='s. On my browser (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9a1) Gecko/20060122 Firefox/1.6a1), it adds horizontal rules all over the page, conflicting with images, etc. Also, I removed the TOC because the article doesn't really have enough sections to merit it. I felt that removing the larger headings and the TOC gave it a cleaner look. I'd be happy with them to go back in if it gained more sections (although it seems unlikely that it will). I understand the need to make it look like other articles, but I think in this case, that it might require a little bit of subjective aesthetic judgement. On the other hand, you may think it looks horrid the way it was. Is that the case? Avriette 04:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Nueva Guinea
G'day Khoikhoi. Thanks for picking up on my earlier typos re the above in those couple of articles. As alert as ever I see! Cheers, --cjllw | TALK  08:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

re the Port Blair pics- No alas, they were pre-digital and seem to have gone astray in one or the other of several relocations made since. Could still be buried in a box somewhere, but I've lost track of a few storage spots over the years.--cjllw | TALK  09:03, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Kerala
I'd be delighted to help, except that I'm only popping into WP occasionally until my work deadline on 3 March. Just too busy, I'm afraid. Tony

Question
Hey their bro, I had a question if you dont mind :) I was wondering why is my username not showing up in the "list of users who support the Independence of Assyria" ? Thanks. Chaldean 18:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Lhasa
Please come and take a look at Talk:Lhasa. User:Lapsed Pacifist is having some trouble understanding what NPOV means -- in his view, if A says X and B says Y, then A has got to be telling the truth and B has got to be lying. -- ran (talk) 19:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Good picture at the Berbers article
Looks good. I can't find much much on Cwens unfortunately though. At least nothing that would substantiall alter the article. I see the problems on the Turks page continue unabated. Wow, they actually think nationalism is a good thing and don't like Pamuk because he sees it for the blinding problem it is. Don't know what to say to that. Tombseye 19:55, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Law section
Hi. I noticed that you deleted the Law section from Iran. There is also a Law section at Papua New Guinea, it was recently added. Do you have any suggestions what to do with it? Thanks. --Khoikhoi 00:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The law section there could probably be removed, with the main article linked to from the Politics box or section, as law and government usually fall under Politics. --Wikiacc (talk) 01:01, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Took care of bizness with Turkish Cypriot page
Ugh. More nationalist nonsense. No wonder they don't like Pamuk. He's lightyears ahead of them. Tombseye 06:58, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Links on the Georgians page look legit. I checked it out as I was watching the page. Ah, it's too easy to banter with Inanna though. Maybe she'd be more hilarious in Turkish, but it probably wouldn't translate well. So what's a hogiehogie? Inadvertantly funny that is. Heh heh. Tombseye 07:21, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the Georgians, Chechens, Ingush etc. are all Caucasian peoples who speak related languages. It's like the debate over the Iranian peoples. So Levan is actually correct that Georgians are related to the other Caucasian peoples and probably the Azeris and Armenians too, although given the language shift there it's not tenable to make any contentions.
 * Yeesh. Yeah I kind of feel sorry for her too now. I don't think she realizes how offensive saying the things she's saying are. Might be time to lay off with the wise-cracks and just accept that we're never going to be on the same page. Tombseye 07:45, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Reply to the 25/01/2006 request
ok,i will do it with a great plessure for me(hope for u too).not cause i am greek,but cause what is written there is completely nonsense!!!!i guess u are talking about the newer version of that article.hope i will not be blocked or something,though...anyway...:)i have seen some spots in the current version as well that could be also improved,and i will do it as soon as i get some more sources for doing that...if u have anything else in mind,or something that i may have not understoond of what u meant,just let me know...

...just to sign this message,cause i have created an account now--Hectorian 11:48, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Can I ask you something?
You and -Inanna- need to settle down. Why can't you two work together? I think you two might need to read this. I'm sure you two should be able to work this out. -- Kotj ze  20:08, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Ah the Somalis
Hmm, let's see how long it takes for someone to be offended by whatever I come up with. I'll give it a shot as soon as I'm able. Boy you and Inanna seem to have developed quite the melodrama there. ;) Tombseye 23:00, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * So what's the Turkish phrase mean anyway? Hey, get this, I'm 'sexist' because I was not interested in some gender question. Tombseye 17:15, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Districts of Pakistan
Hi. Please have a look on Districts of Pakistan and talk:Districts of Pakistan. --Adrian Buehlmann 13:45, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish related articles
Before revert it read it.  D iyako Talk + 18:13, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kholkhol. I am against any uncited and biased edit. That anon's edits were too much biased toward pro-Kurdish-Iranian POV. Please before any reverting read the edits carefully.  D iyako Talk + 18:35, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

User talk:TuzsuzDeliBekir
Hi. Re User talk:TuzsuzDeliBekir; he is entitled to remove that if he wants to, though it wasn't Good Form. Restoring it with rvv is rather provocative; I've reverted to his version William M. Connolley 20:44, 28 January 2006 (UTC).

Okay, finally did the Somalis page
Whew. Took longer than I expected. Ah, I see you're embroiled in more issues. I'll look into the other articles you mentioned. So tell me what you think of the Somalis page? I added the references as I was edited it piece by piece. Hopefully it won't get shredded to pieces too soon. By the way Latinus tells me that there is a problem over at the Ottoman Empire page as well. Ah, fun times. Hey you still haven't told me what that phrase means. Later. Tombseye 00:19, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Done and done. Lol, don't let it get to you man. Regardless of what we do, in terms of sheer numbers, the nationalists are going to outnumber us. I do see that the same culprits are involved. Tombseye 01:43, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Re Inanna
Who is this Inanna and what does he/she(/it) want? I've seen her trolling on many articles and pushing a pro-Turkish POV - even when it reaches the level of a falsehood. Thanks for reverting on TRNC. If you need anything, let me know. Latinus 01:08, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'll watchlist Turkish Cypriot - it's a shame that we can't introduce Inanna to (now banned) User:GreekWarrior who hates all Muslims (especially Turks) and makes comments like this. They'd get on like a house on fire ;-) Latinus 12:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I've been wondering how to deal with Inanna and the answer is obvious: don't entertain her (ie don't revert her immediately, wait a couple of hours first, for her to get fed up and walk away from her PC). Latinus 22:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Turk reverts
This a warning about the Three-revert rule for your edits at Turk. You should not revert any page more than 3 times in 24 hours (or you may be blocked). You will have to work out the problems on the talk page. Good luck. --Commander Keane 01:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but you've been blocked for 24 hours for violating 3RR on Albanians--Shanel 01:52, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Wait, I only reverted twice per day!! --Khoikhoi 01:56, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * You reverted four times today. The time of your first revert was 2:11 January 28, and the time of your fourth was 21:24 January 28, less that 24 hours.--Shanel 02:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

No I didn't! Look at the history. I'll bold my edits on the 28th:

# (cur) (last) 20:48, 28 January 2006 Khoikhoi (not for all the numbers - and stop using sockpuppets Inanna) # (cur) (last) 06:11, 28 January 2006 Khoikhoi (rv POV and un-cited number changes)
 * 1) (cur) (last)  02:05, 29 January 2006 81.213.100.174
 * 2) (cur) (last) 01:53, 29 January 2006 Tombseye (revert 3-look who's talking)
 * 3) (cur) (last) 01:50, 29 January 2006 -Inanna- (and no watchdogs as well...)
 * 4) (cur) (last) 01:47, 29 January 2006 Tombseye (revert 2-yes no propagandists indeed)
 * 5) (cur) (last) 01:44, 29 January 2006 85.96.134.129 (No Propagandists...)
 * 6) (cur) (last) 01:40, 29 January 2006 Tombseye (revert 1)
 * 7) (cur) (last) 01:30, 29 January 2006 85.96.134.129 (Write your lies on talk page)
 * 8) (cur) (last) 01:24, 29 January 2006 Khoikhoi (please cite your sources)
 * 9) (cur) (last) 01:21, 29 January 2006 -Inanna- (I mean sockpuppets.The resource on the page and dont spread enmity...)
 * 10) (cur) (last) 01:14, 29 January 2006 Khoikhoi (I don't have to prove that you didn't cite your sources)
 * 11) (cur) (last) 21:19, 28 January 2006 -Inanna- (prove it then! and stop following me...)
 * 12) (cur) (last) 21:03, 28 January 2006 195.93.60.104
 * 1) (cur) (last) 20:35, 28 January 2006 -Inanna- (He has already showed the resource)
 * 1) (cur) (last) 01:14, 28 January 2006 Altau
 * 2) (cur) (last) 01:13, 28 January 2006 Altau
 * 3) (cur) (last) 01:03, 28 January 2006 Altau
 * 4) (cur) (last) 00:58, 28 January 2006 Pjetër Bogdani (rv. keep the article neat; no greek vandalism)
 * 5) (cur) (last) 10:58, 27 January 2006 Theathenae
 * 6) (cur) (last) 00:03, 27 January 2006 Pjetër Bogdani (rv. to my last edit)

Please unblock me --Khoikhoi 02:28, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm talking about Albanians--Shanel 02:31, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Exactly! That's the history for the Albanians page!!! You can even see User:Pjetër Bogdani in the history section that I copied - he's an Albanian himself!!! --Khoikhoi 02:32, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Your last 2 edits show up as being on the 28th for me. I'm posting to the Admin's Noticeboard anyway, so I'll see if I'm just hallucinating it or not--Shanel 02:36, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't mean to be rude, but I think you are. Thanks for asking other people. My last 2 edits are on the 29th. --Khoikhoi 02:38, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello mate! Don't worry about that because I will take care of the article too. Actually, Turkish politicians themselves have said to the Albanian leaders in Albania and Kosova "You are the leaders of 2/3 million Albanians, we are the leaders of six millions".--Pjetër Bogdani jr. 04:08, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Frisia
The flag is used officially in the Frisian province of Friesland in the Netherlands which is considered the heartland of West Frisia (and Frisia as a whole for that matter). The flag for example is used in both the jerseys and logo of SC Heerenveen as well as being found on top of that soccer team's stadium (often without the Dutch flag). SC Heerenveen also plays the Frisian national anthem before the start of each game and is almost the equivalent of a Frisian national soccer team in a similar fashion that FC Barcelona is seen in the same manner for Catalonia. I think it can be used on the ethnic Frisians page.

[No Title]
Please block Mesopotamia who has made more than 3 reverts on Kurdish people!

What help??
As I see now the article seems ok. You can change it when there will be any bad revert. User:KRBN

Re: Help
Frankly the only solution to the seemingly endless revert wars at Kurdish people is to gather as many academic sources as possible. Problem is that most academic sources focus entirely on linguistic and cultural heritage, not genetics or "race." From the academic viewpoint, Kurds are most definitely an Iranian people in terms of culture and language - that's the point I had been trying to emphasize. But there is no genetic evidence (as far as I know) to link them to the Medes or any other Iranian people, for example. The editors in question are using very limited genetic studies to generalize an entire peoples spread across several different countries, which is a questionable way of perceiving things. So it's become a very difficult situation, and we have to work towards achieving some level of consensus.

Mesopotamia, however, is totally incorrect when claiming that Kurdish language is banned in Iran. Kurds in Iran (like the Lurs) are an extremely proud people who are very grounded in their culture and heritage, and they are most definitely not "Persianized." It's true that the regime oppresses the Kurds, like they have done with tribal groups, but they have never been able to ban their languages or prevent them from speaking their languages. SouthernComfort 19:07, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Check out the recent edit history of the article - as I said, they are using one source, a limited genetic study, to generalize the entire Kurdish peoples. That was a can of worms that should never have been opened, nor is it encyclopedic. SouthernComfort 19:15, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe ArbCom? SouthernComfort 19:35, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it is a hassle but it's the only final option left. We can wait until we gather more sources, but as we've seen, they will use a single genetic study to attack any sources, academic or otherwise. And so unless we get third-party editors involved who have a grounding in this subject matter, it's ultimately either ArbCom or leave the article as it is entirely. I didn't want to alienate them, but it seems they are intent on pushing a very fringe POV. SouthernComfort 19:44, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * As absurd as it may seem, I actually added those since they totally insist that Kurds are related to all these different groups - in the racial, genetic sense. Which I guess to them takes precedent over cultural, linguistic, and historic connections that are established in academia. Quite frankly I am quite content to let them have their way since the can of worms (genetic studies) has already been opened and we have no way of closing it unless we counter those studies with other studies that have sampled larger populations. Look what happened to the Turkish people article as a result of this line of thinking which is borderline "original research" and is far from encyclopedic. SouthernComfort 21:13, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * It's a mess due to all this genetic and racial data - it does need a serious cleaning up and trimming, but I'm afraid that is one major headache I am not willing to tackle. ;) Tajik might be more willing to get involved there, as he has entered into the "discussion" there (chaotic and hostile as it has seems to have become unfortunately). What a world. SouthernComfort 21:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

The Safavids have zero connection to the Oghuz Turks, so I'd have to disagree with editors there who insist upon that. The Azeris were not originally a Turkic group, despite pan-Turkist claims to the contrary. Can Turks from Turkey even be considered "ethnically Turk"? I'm not so sure anymore. As for the Safavid article itself, I'm inclined towards the school of thought that says they were of Azeri background (at least originally), but Tajik seems to have information that claims otherwise, and Iranica is a very solid source. But at the same time, I think it's a bit more complex than that, since I don't think Iranica mentions their exact ethnic background. I'm fine with leaving the issue totally ambiguous or with "Azeri origins." I'll check the books I have available at some point and try to see if I can conclude it one way or another, but these ethnic issues are incredibly complex. Maybe a cite tag would be in order until it is fully resolved. SouthernComfort 21:49, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Also, the Persian people article claims that the Safavids were "Persian" as well. I don't know who added that, and if it was meant in the way of "Persian nationality" (in the sense that many Azeris are primarily Persian-speakers) or what, but no one has bothered to delete it. Aghdashloo is, for example, of Azeri background (no matter what anyone says), but she's Persian, linguistically and culturally. So I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to compromise with everyone and get to the actual truth of these matters. I'll be leaving New Orleans at some point soon so I'll have access to better libraries, and hopefully I can help resolve everything. Hopefully. ;) SouthernComfort 21:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Template:Taxobox
Hi CBDunkerson,

Look at the diffs of the Bobcat page - the first one using the Taxobox_begin template] and the second version using Template:Taxobox. I was wondering, what's the deal with the fat grey line at the bottom? Is there any way to get rid of it? It's really ugly. --Khoikhoi 21:06, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, at first I couldn't tell what you meant. The boxes look identical in Firefox. However, I checked the two pages in Internet Explorer and I now see the gray line you are talking about. I'm guessing it has to do with the way we are suppressing blank rows in the single template version. I'll try to adjust to remove it. --CBD &#x260E; &#x2709; 21:16, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Is that any better? I made some adjustments, but I really can't tell if they did anything... sometimes I get the wider bottom line and sometimes not, even for the same template/page. It is very strange. --CBD &#x260E; &#x2709; 22:02, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * How does the version currently at User:CBDunkerson/Sandbox look in comparison? That uses a completely different method of doing conditional rows. I actually like it better than the other options, but there aren't any templates which work this way currently so I expect it might be controversial. --CBD &#x260E; &#x2709; 22:45, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok. The 'grey line' is actually all of the unused rows. They are supposed to collapse down to nothing if they are unset, but under some browser configurations each blank row comes in as a thin grey line. The more blank rows you have the thicker the line at the bottom. This can be reduced by setting the conditionals so that the row never gets called at all (rather than called and set blank), but that makes the template code look alot messier. Oh well. --CBD &#x260E; &#x2709; 22:58, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I thought we were allowed 3R
Oh right, they might not get it that I was just reverting 3 times. Inanna's clearly using a sockpuppet technique now. I wonder if that's her complimenting herself in order to appear to be another user. I've always found that women who call themselves goddesses were a tad too pretentious. Let me know if there are any other articles like the Somalis that needs fixing up. Half the editors seem to come here to promote a nationalist agenda and aren't the least bit interested in reality. I left a message for the Ottoman Empire guy. Hopefully, that'll help with the edit wars. Tombseye 22:29, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * One of the things with these articles is that, for example, encyclopedias such as Britannica and Americana simply go right into saying these people are this physical type or that these people are strictly Turks etc. The Turks of Turkey do believe in some sort of common descent and feel that they are all related to each other etc. and also believe that they are not related to their neighbors. This becomes a bit of a problem. The complaints about the Turkish people page are coming from people who are pressing for this POV. I don't think it's a mess, but could use improvement. The genetic studies add one very positive dimension, they often show links to neighboring peoples that is hard to refute AND dispel nationalist historic claims, at least in part. Thus, for example, the Azeris of Azerbaijan (not sure about the Azeris of Iran) genetically cluster with the Armenians and Georgians moreso than either Iranian or Turkic peoples. This, no doubt, may annoy these groups who, for different reasons contend otherwise. Academics don't use genetic studies very often YET, but in academic journals they are increasingly using them as part of the bigger picture. Now if the Azeris are largely native to the Caucasus, that really does change a lot of what we know about them, that most of them assimilated an invading group's culture and language. The problems stem from an overemphasis upon these genetic studies or just those that one group likes for example. That's more of a problem than the studies in general as they tend to be quite useful. I happen to believe that the Sinhalese are largely of indigenous origin contrary to what most Sinhalese may claim and are related to their neighbors. These views won't please everyone, but the articles shouldn't be written to make people happy. More information is always a good thing, in my opinion, and I think the Turkish people page needs some work, but isn't that out of line. However, there is the other trend found on the French people page that is to simply discard the too convoluted concept of ethnic peoples altogether and that would of course render these peoples pages completely pointless. Bottom-line, lots of gray areas here. I am trying to work with people to get some concensus (well those who are willing anyway). We reached that with the Iranian peoples page to some extent. Everyone's not 100% satisfied, but perhaps that is an indication of some success as well. Tombseye 22:56, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh and I'll see what I can do about those wacky Toda people. If only they could have been called the Yoda people though. I kid, I kid. Tombseye 22:59, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * The problem with these genetic studies is that they are limited in scope and cannot be used to generalize entire populations. That's the problem that has arisen with the Kurdish peoples article. Precisely because there are so many "gray areas" in the context of race and genetics, we should strive for ambiguity in this area - which every well established encylopedia adheres to. Otherwise the edit warring will never have an end and we will see an increase in the level of ethnic and racial-based "nationalism" on WP. SouthernComfort 23:04, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, the editing wars take place anyway. Look at the history before the genetic studies and it was just with a different context. The problem is not the studies, but the users who either deliberately misinterpret them or don't like what they read or both. Encyclopedia Americana for example just goes into the Turks look like various regional people so it's unlikely that they are entirely or even mostly of original Turkic origin (I'm paraphrasing here) and that was written by a professor. If you look at academic journals they are using these tests to either support or dispel various historical events and their magnitude. Thus, we know to a large certainty that the Mongols displaced Iranian peoples in Central Asia through genetic tests of Uzbeks. Genetic tests don't support 'race' so much as genetic similarity or dissimilarity to varying degrees. It's meant to be more of a transitional thing. The Kurds are an eclectic people, but are perhaps only eclectic to a certain degree and genetic tests may show that some Kurds link to say the Persians more and others to Semites. Saying less isn't going to fill the vacuum as this gives people license to speculate more and make even more bizarre claims. The trend towards the usage of genealogical testing is only going to increase and we can't just ignore it as academia is moving in the direction to include more diverse sources of information. Note on National Geographic they used genetic testing to find that perhaps most of the Lebanese are descendents of the Phoenicians and that perhaps 1/5 of Tunisians are as well. These tests also showed the possible diaspora of the Phoenicians around the Mediterranean that were not known. If National Geographic is using it, I think there is a great deal of validity. You'll note for example, that some Persians in Iran feel that Tajiks aren't Persians, except they have no problem claiming historical figures. Nationalism exists regardless of what we do and we are actually following academic trends here as the old established way was to just say, "Turks in Turkey look different from Turks in Central Asia and thus they are distinct." The new trend is to see who genetically clusters where. If enough studies are done on one population that back a certain trend, that lends a great deal of credence and isn't really all that ambiguous. Tombseye 23:16, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Assyrian people
It would probably be less ontroversial to create several distinct articles, like Assyrianism, Assyrians in Iran, Assyrians in Syria etc. Assyrians don't actually exist as an ethnic group, it is a national category not recognized as such by all the people whom Assyrianists claim as Assyrians. Just like Kurdish nationalists who claim Zazas, Luris and Bakhtyaris as Kurds: maybe some of these do consider themselves as such, but they still have distinct ethnic identities. I hope some good sense will come upon those articles and categories related to Assyrian people. --Pylambert 23:22, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I find that whole thing a bit strange. Maybe there are controversies about who is what now, but that is no reason to try and errase history iE removing all Category-Caldean tags from history articles about people who have been refered to as Caldeans at THEIR time Agathoclea 23:30, 29 January 2006 (UTC) like and many more at the same time Agathoclea 23:48, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I tried to portray the situation as clearcly as possible, but the POV banner is not a problem, the article should rather somewhat be cleaned up. You were right to put the banner back, as the other side hasn't yet had the time to agree on the new content of the article: it is now rather neutral from my point of view (and I'm nor an Assyro-Chaledo-Syriaco-etc. nor an enemy of Assyro-Chaledo-Syriaco-etc.) but maybe not from theirs. --Pylambert 23:48, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Marsh Arabs
My edits to the Marsh Arab page were measured and apolitical. Mentioning the US and Iraqi role in the marsh restoration is neither an endorsement nor a criticism of the invasion, but an observation that the marshes are not restoring themselves. To describe the phenomenon without reference to its agent, as you have, is a pointedly political omission. Thanks.


 * Thanks much. Timur2000 23:53, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Kurds in Columbia Encyclopedia
I can't believe I missed this: Ethnically close to the Iranians, the Kurds were traditionally nomadic herders but are now mostly seminomadic or sedentary.. I wonder if that is POV? ;) SouthernComfort 00:19, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * LOL. I hear ya. SouthernComfort 00:42, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * They wanted a neutral source, and I presented one, and it's not good enough despite the fact that Britannica is. SouthernComfort 01:15, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * If the issue is verifiability, then Columbia is perfect. The genetic study is totally not verifiable in this instance due to its limits and the fact that there are no other details given. SouthernComfort 01:19, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Laden.gif
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 * Preceding notice cut-and-pasted from User talk:Hottentot by Russ Blau (talk) 17:35, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Kalmyk People article
I plan to make a major revision. Actually, I intend to delete the current content and insert what I've written, which is fairly comprehensive and interesting. After I make the change and I click the box "Watch this page," what'll happen?

Also, I'm somewhat hestitant to make any change, because I know the article will be edited by a specific person whom I suspect is not qualfied to render an opinion. For example, this person refuses to acknowledge Kalmyks as being of Mongolian origin. And the person is functionally illiterate. So, I don't know what to do.

Khoikhoi, I tried to refrain making personal insults, but Calmouk was the first to toss around insults. And she was persistant, taking her insults up a notch with each succeeding comment. She's a hard core Kalmyk nationalist. Yet she lives comfortably in America like I do. That's an oxymoron if you ask me.--Buzava 20:53, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Nagorno-Karabakh
Hi Khoikhoi. Could you please explain to me why you reverted the original version of the intro to the one recently introduced by Armenian editors? It started a new edit war, while the previous version was agreed by other editors and existed for quite a long period of time. I think we should restore the status-quo and then agree any changes between the interested parties. You current position obviously favors those who introduced the changes to the crucial part of this article without discussing it with their opponents. Regards, Grandmaster 06:14, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

spam template
Thanks! I zoned out and couldn't remember the name of that template. 07:34, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Azerbaijani people image
Can you integrate the images there into one image so as to be consistent with other peoples' articles? I could do it if you don't have time, though my (very basic) image editor doesn't have zoom features and the like. SouthernComfort 17:02, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Semi-protection
Maybe we should request semi-protection for the trolled articles - that way, Inanna's IPs will not be able to edit, only users with accounts of four days or more will be able to. Latinus 21:41, 31 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, do you think you could revert a troll on Comparative military ranks of World War II. Thanks. Latinus 15:35, 1 February 2006 (UTC) (they're everywhere!)

Kurdish people
And we thought it couldn't get more confused than it already has become - Talk:Kurdish people. ;) I need a vacation from WP. SouthernComfort 15:22, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The Toda people
I added some more links on the Toda people, but I'm not sure what I can do for the article other than editing it and possibly rewriting it a bit as info. on the Toda is scant since they are such a small group. As with the Cwen, when it comes to dealing with the really small groups of people in the world, it's tough unless you live near a university research library which I currently don't. I'm better when writing about people who number in the millions rather than most of the really small groups who haven't been scrutinized. Tombseye 19:21, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Azerbaijani people
Tajik just won't give up there in changing the stats. What are your thoughts? Should I just find another source or ...? Tombseye's suggestion was not bad, to give both the low and high end figures in the ethnobox. I don't feel like getting involved in another revert war with someone who obviously has an irrational bias. SouthernComfort 21:28, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Finland-Swedish
An anonymous editor (obviously pushing an agenda against the Swedish language in Finland; see contribs at Special:Contributions/84.231.217.70), repeatedly re-inserts a section about Finland in Apartheid_outside_South_Africa, claiming our country's constitutional bilingualism constitutes "Åpartheid". This is utter nonsense, and has been repeatedly removed by logged-in editors. This anon. also inserts POV material in Finland-Swedes, and posts mock vandalism warnings on reverting logged-in users' talk pages. Please keep an eye on this, thank you. --Janke | Talk 22:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

SPAM?
Hi,

I'm fairly new to contributing to Wikipedia, but I don't understand your policies.

I added a link to a new public website with Eastern European photos, ee-photo.com and you removed it, classifying it as spam. Am I missing something?

It is my new website, but it's not a personal website, it's a gallery with people being able to view and add photos. It's not a profit website, we have no advertising on the website. I have nothing to gain from it, so how is it spam?

I wanted to share the new website with people, so they can see photos of Eastern Europe, which is exactly why I added it. It's not false advertising, it's not spam. I think it's a perfectly legitimate link for Wikipedia users to use at their own leisure. What's wrong with that? And even if you disagree with me on that, I've seen so many other websites listed that are in the same position as mine, so why are they allowed to stay?

Thanks for your time, I'd appreciate a reply very much.

Sergei y 01:49, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Can you please address the rest of my questions?

First of all, the photos are not mine to add. As I said, it's a gallery with users being able to add their own photos. I'm not entitled adding their photos to Wikipedia. Second, there are far too many photos to add.

The gallery is constantly being updated, and Wikipedia users can always have access to new photos.

Also, just as an example, look at the links in the Belgrade section. What's different between what I added, and these?

Sergei y 01:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

...........


 * Once again, thank you for clearing it up. I hope you won't mind me adding what I had on here before. Sergei y 02:19, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

History of Khuzestan
Please have a look at history of Khuzestan when you have time. Zora is attacking me as a nationalist again. SouthernComfort 03:09, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Just did. The article is filled with her personal opinions and could use serious NPOVing as well. Perhaps involving other third-party editors would be helpful. SouthernComfort 03:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Let me tell you, I am really sick and tired of people who themselves have a nationalist or anti-Iranian (in this case, against the country ;) agenda attacking me in such a vicious manner over and over again. You're very NPOV so I trust your judgement in these matters. SouthernComfort 03:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Totally agree with you. I've been observing the pan-Turkish problem for some time now as well - I'll try to help out there as well. What is the essential problem there exactly, aside from the image on Turkish people? SouthernComfort 03:41, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Man, they have seriously been keeping you busy. How do you cope with this stress? ;) And I thought the Kurdish article was problematic. I had thought it was mainly just Turkish people and Turkic peoples. I'll help out as much as I can. Are there no reasonable Turkish editors there, or is it as contentious as the Kurdish situation? Honestly, if the problems there with the image and such continue, your only serious option is ArbCom because it looks like this has been going on for some time, and the revert wars have been continuous. WP policy is to take it to ArbCom at that point. Have you been involved in one before? It's tedious, but I can help out. SouthernComfort 04:13, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I've been going through some of the edit histories and as tedious as it might be, if the issue is important to you and the editor in question continues to POV-war and engage in revert wars and no amount of mediation has been helpful, your only recourse is ArbCom. In the meantime I suggest opening up an RfC and attempting a calm mediation. The article is currently protected, so there's no rush. If mediation doesn't solve anything, ArbCom. ;) Believe me, I hate the tediousness of it as much as you do, but this sort of endless POV-warring is harmful to WP and doesn't solve anything. My feeling is that with editors like AverageTurkishJoe, compromise is possible and we can solve this. But if one editor continues to create problems and put up obstacles, ArbCom is the only way of handling it because there is only so much admins can really do. The case is already strong - at this point there just needs to be a final attempt at compromise and conclusion to any open disputes. If we can work with the Turkish editors and communicate without any contentiousness, I believe everyone will be pleased with the results. But like I said, if one editor continues standing in the way, there is no other choice. Now we just need to communicate. SouthernComfort 05:06, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

BTW, if the issue with the image is just Orhan Pamuk, it would just be easier to replace him. This is not unlike the situation with Khomeini - either replacing him with a controversial figure that no one seems to have any objections to, or finding as neutral a compromise as possible. SouthernComfort 05:11, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No problem. I completely empathize with you concerning the situation with Inanna. Obviously she does not have a firm grasp of NPOV (not unusual on WP, as I know all too well after nearly a year with Zora and others), but I think something can be achieved so long as consensus is reached with the other Turkish editors. As to the issue of North Cyprus, the facts are pretty clear and there is no compromise there - it's like the situation with the "Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan" during Taliban rule. Only Saudi Arabia and UAE recognized it. So that is a very clear cut situation. I just wish the Turk and Greek editors could simply put aside the animosity on WP, and just stick to the facts as the world sees it when there is too much POV on both sides. We need more editors there. SouthernComfort 05:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Check out Zora's comments on Talk:History of Khuzestan and my response. She believes her own "Western academic" source (an unpublished PhD dissertation - by a Persian Iranian!) is superior to all other sources - I guess since anything "Western" is far superior to anything "Eastern." Is that Orientalism or what? I thought we were living in the 21st century. SouthernComfort 08:21, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Voting
Hi, Khoikhoi. I have seen you on the Armenian related articles, and given your neutrality, I wanted to let you know about a voting that's taking place on the Talk page. It's about whether to remove the POV tag from the article. You can take a look at the article if you want, but to me it's pretty neutral, maybe even too much, and I think it should be removed. But as a third party, your vote would be especially valuable. Thank you in advance.--TigranTheGreat 10:24, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Look I'll bury the hatchet.
I want to know why you're always causing controversy. It seems to me and apperantly others that you think you know what's best, editing articles on certain people you're not a part of. What makes you think you know more about someone's people than themselves? Don't tell me from reading about history because not all history is documented and you seem to even dispute history that is. Stop with the edit wars.
 * Khoikhoi, you're an angel of patience with those Sargonious and other Assyria 90, I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to let them expelled from wikipedia, the presence of such people who dare writing "What makes you think you know more about someone's people than themselves?" should be shown to anywhere but an encyclopedia... --Pylambert 23:02, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Reverts
Looks like Latinus got there in time. This is a good sign - if we can get more editors involved with all these articles and attract more interest there, we'll have a much better chance of preventing any kind of POV attack. I'll keep an eye on both of them. SouthernComfort 17:27, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I added Tatars to my watchlist, I'll also add a subsection on the Finnish Tatars, a recognized minority group there. SouthernComfort is right, but I'm afraid that some access restriction, a sort of filter, will be needed soon if we don't want wikipedia to be completely discredited: we are aware of the problems existing for some articles but think of the people (pupils, youg students) who use wikipedia as a main source of information, and read the articles just after Assyria 90, Sargonious, Inanna, Benne or others have put their nonsense in them. --Pylambert 19:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Image Copyright for Batgram.jpg
Hi, I emailed the website for the image that I used in the Mansehra article, and got their permission to use the picture in the article. so I was just wondering how to change the status of the picture. help me out =)

Teardrops 19:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Regarding archiving
Yeah I just didn't want to bother and I've resolved the old images I uploaded back when I didn't know what I was doing regarding copyright status. I wrote to longhair and told him to delete the images and a lot of the stuff I deleted is just image copyright stuff and pointless blather from Inanna so I don't think I'm going to miss any of it by not archiving it. I may just archive some of the earlier comments though. By the way, I'll give you barnstar since apparently Inanna doesn't get that anyone can get one and give one and it has nothing to do with anything other than a subjective view of 'excellence'. Kids...Tombseye 21:32, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Alright now that you're also an award winner you have crediblity at last! Or so some 'editors' would believe. Tombseye 21:52, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Nah, I'm cool. You do actually do a lot of work and seem to be on top of a lot of stuff so I'm glad to give you one. A lot of the articles I've worked on were done after you told me about them so I gotta give you props for just staying alert! Tombseye 21:59, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm gonna guess the ultranationalist chick got penalized. Wow, justice for 24 hours. I'm going to try to not delve into a schadenfreud moment here though! Let's think of it as a vacation then! Tombseye 22:09, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Whatever - unless that "I speak Russian" thing is a bluff and Altau's interest in more articles than Inanna shouldn't give rise to a reasonable doubt, I think we should assume he isn't until (if he is) Inanna makes a mistake ;-) Sockpuppeteers always make a mistake (one way or another). --Latinus (talk (el:)) 22:35, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I once found an incident mentioned, where one user (user A) had a sockpuppet (user B) and one fine day, user B uploaded a picture of himself saying this is a picture of me, user A. OOPS!!! :-))) --Latinus (talk (el:)) 22:40, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Tatars
What do you think about either adding a disambig sentence at the top of the article or even make the Tatars article a disambig and move it to "Tatar peoples"? SouthernComfort 23:39, 4 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, but I figured it might help due to the reversion war that had occured, though it looks like things have since calmed down. ;) SouthernComfort 05:51, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Check out Thai people
I found that the Thai people article was a stub which was amazing since there are over 50 mil. Thais in the world. I wrote up the article so I'd appreciate any feedback. Hopefully, other people will see it and start to pick it apart in a constructive way. Tombseye 00:51, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

What happened to your "Independence" or "political" user boxes?
How come you got rid of those things ? Epf 01:16, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

AfD Blanking
Oh - sorry. :( Compu  te  r  Jo  e 18:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish flag in Iran
Actually I did not understand what you mean. please provide any neutral sources supporting your claim in your last edit on Kurdistan page. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kurdistan&curid=80777&diff=38338361&oldid=38291536  D iyako Talk + 18:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

But I see NO source regarding Kurdish flag is NOT banned in Iran. Please revert your last edit.

 D iyako Talk + 19:01, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Tatars
Hi, don't you think that this (re?)source is sufficient? Regardless whether Altau is Inanna's sockpuppet, it seems like a valid source to me and it's figures should be noted. I haven't read it though and don't know whether it has any merit, as I know nothing about the Tatars, that's for you to do :-) --Latinus (talk (el:)) 19:11, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Catalan people done!
Surprisingly it didn't take as long as it looks. Just knocked it out while doing 'real' work. Let me know what you think and fix it up where you see errors. Ciao. Tombseye 19:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Cool deal. Let me know if there are any other problem articles, although I'm probably better with major rather than really small minor groups just due to my limited resources at the moment. Tombseye 19:32, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll check them out. Doesn't she have anything constructive to do? Hell if she at least wrote something constructive with references that are actual references and not nationalist webpages, she might gain some slight credibility. Probably asking for too much though. Tombseye 19:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Lol! In other words, we would be in the middle of the apocalypse! Tombseye 19:41, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah well enough about the goddess who makes us laugh uncontrollably. Say iyako brought up the Kurdish flag situation in Iran. According to the NPR link, which I googled myself, it was banned in Iran and shows up during the conversation. Sounds legit, but I can't find any other sources that corroborate, although NPR's usually pretty reliable. Any opinions? Tombseye 19:51, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm. SouthernComfort's cool, but did he offer up any evidence to the contrary? I mean if NPR says that it's banned and we don't find anything that claims to the contrary we gotta go with Diyako's contention. I'm sure we'll hear more about this very soon anyway! Ah, the fun never stops. Tombseye 19:57, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I've thought about it. The main problem would be to divide the article up into various sections that discuss the various views on the subject. It will most likely devolve into chaos and conflict as that page has a lot of dissenting views. Even when you accommodate other views, there seems to always be people who want only their way. That article's gonna have to wait until another time as I want to limit myself to a one article every few days if I'm going to do a whole re-write or do it from scratch ya know? Tombseye 20:28, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I noticed that article on the Kalmyk people and it's on my list of to do pages along with the French people now. I discovered another one that looks pretty bad recently, the Punjabis page. Looks like the more articles that get done, the more seem to pop up. Yeesh. Tombseye 20:35, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * And to think, I look at editing on wikipedia as a type of mini-vacation. It's like a sickness man. Albeit an educational one. Tombseye 20:39, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, the sockpuppets have returned! Tombseye 23:20, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Lucky coincidence as I was just done making some changes to Catalan people after talking to Burgas. Tombseye 23:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Voting
Hey their, I voted for your side on that one poll, hope I get a favor back ;) Talk:Syriac_genocide Chaldean 22:25, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Pics
Sure, Khoikhoi, I will do it gladly. I read the discussion, I am abit confused who proposed which picture. Can you provide here links to your pictures and Innana's pictures? Thanks.--TigranTheGreat 23:50, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Country
Thanks for noticing and reverting the changes to Template:Infobox Country! Tireless efforts by people like you are what make Wikipedia great. I, for one, appreciate your attention to detail.--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Is there something specific you were trying to do? Why did you want to capitalize arms? I just want to know in case there's any way I can help, being interested in country articles myself. Thanks for being a part of work on the template!--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:40, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I've been noticing the exact same thing! Nothing changed in the template; I'm thinking something changed in MediaWiki, but I don't know what. Leave a message at Template talk:Infobox Country, and we'll try and get to the bottom of it!--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Reverts
Hey their friend, ok I finally know how to do that :). Now, what do you want me to do. Just revert anybody that changes anything on those 3 pages? Chaldean 05:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * All done. Now, I had a questoin. In the WWI page, under the "see also" under the "Civilian impact & atrocities:" Their is the Armenian genocide link. Is their a way to add also the Assyrian genocide? Chaldean 05:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Your the man. Chaldean 05:24, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish flag
When did I claim anything about the Kurdish flag? I noticed that in the edit history of Kurdistan and also your comment on Tombseye's talk. As far as I know, all I said was the Kurdish language was not banned in Iran. SouthernComfort 08:42, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * And WTF? No one opposed any of the edits about "most sources" regarding Iranian peoples and then Aucaman still changes it ("this one should keep people happy for now" - no one said anything!)? Man, I'm not getting this at all. SouthernComfort 08:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * But where did I claim that the Kurdish flag wasn't banned? I don't remember making that claim. SouthernComfort 08:47, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Mesopotamia, however, is totally incorrect when claiming that Kurdish language is banned in Iran. Kurds in Iran (like the Lurs) are an extremely proud people who are very grounded in their culture and heritage, and they are most definitely not "Persianized." It's true that the regime oppresses the Kurds, like they have done with tribal groups, but they have never been able to ban their languages or prevent them from speaking their languages. No mention of flags. Am I missing something? ;) SouthernComfort 08:50, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * "Oh crap" is right, man. Now all the Kurdish editors think I said the flag wasn't banned. ;) SouthernComfort 08:54, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * That was just ... surreal. Thanks man, as if WP hasn't already twisted my perception of reality enough! ;) SouthernComfort 08:59, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I noticed. She didn't answer my question about replacing Pamuk either. Pity. SouthernComfort 09:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

"Inanna" warning
Hi, I thought you might be interested in this talk page edit by User:-Inanna-, first calling you a "psychopath" and then announcing an intention to "hack" you somehow (if my Turkish serves me right): []. Don't know if you find it worth it taking some action against her. Lukas (T. 21:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * As Altau just vandalized your user page, I guess some war has been initiated here. I wonder what should be the good reaction to their childish games ? --Pylambert 22:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:PAIN might be the place to go. Lukas (T. 06:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Kalmyk people fixed up a bit
I didn't do a major re-write as it looked okay for the most part. I just added things that I could and references, population stats, studies, etc. Hopefully, it's better for it. Tombseye 23:13, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Tombseye, you made changes without citing sources. One of the major disagreements we've had was whether the the terms "Kalmyk" and "Oirat" are interchangeable. I can cite several sources that support my position.

The editors in the other camp have failed so far to support their position. These editors, at one time, refused to accept the notion that the Kalmyk people were of Mongolian origin. I know the editor. This person has an underlying political agenda. Check out the name of this person's website: http://forumfreekalmykia.org. Yet you walk in and take up their position without providing citations. --66.44.107.208 00:08, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I cited a lot of references, so what are you talking about? I'm not saying they're interchangeable, but linguistically, according to what I've read as I have never studied the languages, are mutually intelligible AND the references I put in simply stated the languages as being quite similar, but not necessarily the same. I'm just citing Ethnologue, Encyclopedia Americana etc. in terms of their status as a Mongol sub-type. If you can cite YOUR sources and state that the two are very different and why, then go ahead. Tombseye 05:20, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Uh, not to turn Khoikhoi's page into a debate forum here. ;) Tombseye 05:21, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Heh, heh. Looks interesting on the Turkish people with the picture. A lot more interest than I expected to see. Oh and by the way, I've been looking into the Persian vs. Tajik debate and here's my take: the majority of Tajiks do view themselves as Persians, while many Persians in Iran don't see them as 'real' Persians, but see famous figures as real enough to claim as ethnic Persians. Some of it is stereotypes regarding Tajiks, especially since a lot of Hazaras moved to Iran as refugees and Iranians started equating them with Afghanistan. From a standpoint of looking at this academically, I'd have to say that both Tajiks and Iranian Persians qualify as Persians and their variations are regional rather than anything 'racial' (nonsense) or even ethnic. Actually, in terms of ancestry, one could even divide the Persians further with the Persians of northeast Iran and Afghanistan in one group, the Persians along the Iraqi border another group, and northern Persians. Of course, these groups all overlap so it's pointless overall, but the terminology, though confusing, makes matters more complicated then they should be. It would make more sense if the term Tajik (and Persian was used)just didn't exist, but hey that's the way it is. Tombseye 05:39, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It's all strange. The thing is that these people associate and don't associate due to historical cleavages. For example, Afghanistan broke away due to the rise of the Pashtuns, while Tajikistan was cut-off by Turkic and Mongol invasions. Thus, the Persians of Iran developed some differences and then a complex of being 'real' Persians. Meanwhile, many Central Asian Persians go through the same thing and think they're the real deal since the earliest known records of an Iranian language, the Avestan is traced to Afghanistan, which Persian speakers used to call Aryana. Thus, the differences sort of exist. Since they all lay claim to being Persians, as opposed to the Croats, Serbs, Bosnians who don't want to be associated with each other, I figure they can be counted as ethnic Persians since the only objection seems to come from the Persians of Iran which really doesn't change anything. It's kind of a display of their own nationalism since I find it bizarre that they claim historical figures like Rumi as Persians, but think Tajiks aren't real Persians even though Rumi's from Afghanistan! It's insane! Tombseye 05:54, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey cool deal with the WP:PAIN! Definitely have to keep that in mind next time, which I imagine won't be long in coming. Tombseye 21:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Altitude of Lhasa
Khoikhoi, I didn't see the info that you referred me to on the altitude of Lhasa. Please reply (if desired) on Talk:Tibet. Thanks -- Writtenonsand 04:13, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Tibet
Hey, no problem. I might run out of time today (working on fixing up Kerala before the main-paging and writing a decent blurb), but I can do it up by tomorrow evening. It looks like a nice article already. Also, I notice out revert much vandalism and linkspam on India-related pages &mdash; good work, and keep it up. Saravask 04:45, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

"Subset ethnicities"?
Hey K-khoi! Nice effort at the various "peoples" articles — take no prisoners! ;) I was wondering about the use of the ethnobox (infobox): Do you disagree that it should be used for groups of people who may variously be considered and consider themselves as a "people" in their own right or as a "breakaway" or "splinter" ethnicity, that has evolved out of a "parent people" (e.g. Cajuns, Pomaks, Ajarians, Tornedalianss etc)? In my opinion, each group that is identifiable and definable merits the ethnobox, regardless of overlapping population figures that may result in such a group's inclusion within a larger people. //Big Adamsky 08:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Tibet infobox
Will this work? And feel free to make any modifications if you want to use it. Thanks. Saravask 02:01, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I did the tweaks you wanted and put in the infobox . Hope it looks alright now. Also, I saw these:, . These guys are getting slick ... Saravask 19:54, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello
Hello, beautiful stranger..

Would you mind revising japanese.img?
Hi could you think about replacing Koizumi with perhaps the likes of Toshusai Sharaku? well if you don't care perhaps you could delegate the editing to someone who might know more Japanese people apart from contemporary neo-cons whose current international attention most likely stems from recklessness and absent mind? Yeah perhaps you could place him back after he does something useful as opposed to piss foreigners off and persue local popularity through Weimar rhetoric.

Copue441 15:40, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have no problem with him being replaced myself as he was just a contemporary Japanese guy that I suggested just b/c of his notreity. Akio Morita sounds cool to me. Just so long as we keep the great Toshiro Mifune just for the cool factor. In terms of his politics, I'm not a fan of Koizumi either, especially with his go along with Bush on most things views. Of course, I suggested him due to his well known status and not his politics. It might be better to replace him and avoid the drama until someone else finds someone offensive I guess. Tombseye 20:19, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey cool choice for the Japanese people picture dude! Should appeal to the billions of soccer/football fans. Tombseye 19:04, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppets
Look at the message Michalis left at my talk page. Can you get some if Inanna's IPs so that we can whois them with BlueSea's, to see if they are the same person. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 00:47, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No, they are not the same person. Inanna is in Ankara, whereas Blue sea in is Mersin. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 00:53, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * That's odd. Do you think she uses proxies? She uses Turk Telecom, doesn't she. They are not the same person as their ISPs are different. Unless, she has multiple ISP contracts. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 00:58, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Did you see how she flared up when I referred to Istanbul as Constantinople and to Izmir as Smyrna? --Latinus (talk (el:)) 01:01, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I'm afraid semi-protection is not applicable in this case as it is reserved for talk pages or heavily vandalised articles. I'm not an admin, so I can't semi-protect it, but you can try requesting it at WP:RPP (once they've cleared thorugh the backlog, they'll see to it). How many of these trollish anons are they? It's terrible. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 01:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Did Punjabi people
Hey check out Punjabi people and if you have any suggestions or improvements, then go for it. Trying to improve as many peoples pages as possible. Later. Tombseye 19:01, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Lol! Man, those "two" (being one person and all or at least sharing one brain) are hilarious. Seems almost self-depracting to misspell 'losers'. Since her opinion is worthless and her contributions have been about as useful as an electrical power outage, I wouldn't pay any attention. Let 'em (or he/she) yuck it up since their edits make for laughter from everybody else. Thanks for helping with the Punjabi people. Slowly but surely all of the peoples pages will be in working order. Italian people might be next judging from the lack of info. on that page. Tombseye 03:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Heh heh. Funny thing is that usually the chicks that call themselves goddesses are anything but and need to build themselves up to boost their lack of self-confidence. Hilarious that she keeps claiming that the things we've written are personal attacks when she's going alluding to me a being a girl or trying to figure out my 'race' or basically showing her homophobic tendencies (wow, that's some liberal she turned out to be!). Hey at least we aren't writing to imaginary friends who happen to write exactly the same things and post on the same pages. Wow, it's like they're two people almost! Aww, and she owns a cat. Working on being an old maid early I see. I'm picturing her as the Simpsons catlady myself. Tombseye 03:20, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah I know, I know you're right. I usually don't go into the personal attacks, but those comments warranted some ridicule. Plus, she can't help venting I guess. I would vent too if I was a high school kid whose life revolved around her cat and posting Turkish nationalist crap. Alright, last time, I promise! Tombseye 03:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I think I'll use those the next time I'm arguing with an ultranationalist that they might be wrong about something in order to defuse any future hostilities. Or just ridicule you know who and leave a smile beyond. alright, back to real work. Later. Tombseye 03:44, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Syriac article
What is the dispute about? I know the Genocide page is disputed but what is actually disputed on the Syriac people page?
 * See the discussion at Template talk:Syriac. It explains much of the problem, but not all of it probably. --Pylambert 00:48, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

New blurb and Chavez broken link
Hey, thanks for taking care of the broken link. That's nice. Also, I wrote a new blurb for Kerala. Your comments on that are always welcome. Thanks. Saravask 02:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does need to be shortened considerably. See some comments regarding how I plan to shorten it to 1/2-1/3 its current size. It needs to be done now, since I've noticed more than a few comments that attempt to use the ~ 100 kb Hugo Chavez to bootstrap their own unsummarized and bloated FAC articles into featured status. This needs to stop. Thanks. Saravask 05:30, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Thaaaaanx!
I've left those stubborn ethno-warriors at the mercy of you and Tombseye for a while, I see that you're dealing with them in the best way imaginable. ;} //04:35, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Btw, how do you archive a talk page? I can't seem to find the button called "Permanent changes" or the like...

Sorry!!
Hey, Sorry, I reverted to the wrong old edit when looking at the Sentinelese page - wasnt trying to vandalise it! Fantastic work on it - really interesting topic Cheers (Westius 06:26, 10 February 2006 (UTC))

Thanks on TS !!
Thanks for the editing help on the Tourette syndrome page: I'm still learning, and didn't really know what to do with those darn underscores :-))  Sandy 14:00, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Action needed?
Hi Khoikhoi,

i know that u have tried a lot in making some articles been more accurate.i have tried for this too,mainly before i had created an account and now that i have one.but i think that in some cases,no matter what we do for the accuracy of the articles,it seems that they are reverted back to propaganda.i am refearing to the article about 'Turkish Cypriots'.u had requested to revert it before i had an account,and i did.it was again reverted to Inanna's version,obviously by her.i am reverting it again now(as far as the numbers are concerned),but i am sure it will be changed again by her.i am not a nationalist,but i prefer to see real numbers in the articles.is there anything we can do about it?

thanks!--Hectorian 15:37, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

thanks,i just did it and also stated some sources and reasons for doing this:)but i am sure it will be changed again though.... anyway....--Hectorian 15:58, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Sarikamis
Please share your views conserning Ottoman casualties at Talk:Battle of Sarikamis. I'm saying this to you because you and Inanna have been revert warring over the matter. -- Michalis Famelis 17:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The 77,500 figure sounds about right to me, judging from what we know. By the way, have you seen that opus 'Valley of Wolves'? It has some of the greatest American actors of our time in it, since let's face it Gary Busey's role as the gruff cop in Point Break is simply unforgettable! Tombseye 19:09, 10 February 2006 (UTC)


 * No slight to Busey though as I think he's actually a pretty okay actor. Now his son on the other hand... I kid, I kid. Tombseye 19:10, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Billy Zane as Sam(maybe they try to show him as symbol of "Sam Uncle") William Marshall who is man of CIA.Gary Busey as Jewish Doctor(It has a reason why he is "jewish" doctor).Tombseye, if you watched the film, your opinions would be so diffrent.--Inanna 00:21, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Most Americans? So why "Bush"s at the top? He didnt became leader by revolution...Inanna 00:35, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Actually, we are interesting with results more than opinions.Like: 40,000 civillians died in Felluce between 2003-2005.Thousands of Turks forced to migration for kurdization of northern iraq.A new puppet state was founded.Ebu Galip event is already awful...Besides, everything was OK in Cliton's era...Inanna 00:51, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

By the way, that war's cost 250 billion dollars for USA annually.I think he is an ill omened man(for example hurricanes).And his government is racist as well(as we have seen the discrimination against blacks in katrina hurricane) Inanna 01:05, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Current account balance also...Inanna 01:12, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I dont like my leader, actually.But they have good economic programs.So,i am confused about voting.Erdoğan is just a puppet.AKP is a prove how radical islamics got strong in Turkey.He is already georgian origin(That's the what i mean by "citizenship policy of Turkey").They were not allowed the prestiged areas and usually looked down until before 10-15 years.However, they started to invest money on everything.They became richer and richer.Then they started to invest money on media.They founded channels,radios,newspapers and bought some of them.They became more powerfull.And last, they have been choosen their own political party.Actually, their political party was diffrent but they prepared a new one against reactions.They became a very rich and powerfull class at the moment.You have to be very rich to be able to their mason.I know many people who went bust by lots of debts.They spent all their debts and even found new holding companies again.But they are attending for their benefits for sure...Anyway.Their ideology is an islam consciousness in Turkey.But a state cant be govern like that...Inanna 01:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

They cant do that.The Army never permits that and we also.The State is not an alive thing.So it cant have any religion.Inanna 01:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I copied it from userboxes.Didnt care so much.Thanks.Inanna 01:49, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Taliban and they are very diffent.Turkey and Afghanistan is very diffrent also.Have you ever seen any Turkish women who wears veil or black headscarf? These are already not in islam.These are arabic culture.Propet Mohammed's wife had been wearing like that and i understood the reason when i was at safari in Dubai(sand storm).I know each religions very well.Those terrorists representing the islam very wrong(like jihad).Inanna 01:56, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's ridiculous.I know i have a bad english because i have never studied professionally.Everthing mixed since my childhood.Inanna 02:02, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, each nation has traditional clothes.But we dont have headscarf in our culture.It's headcover.It was using for buckle.Because "women" were usually working in agricultural sector and they were wearing headcover so that their hair wouldnt disturb them.Inanna 02:07, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Can you look at the page of "Latvians"? I have shown some numbers but they aren't seen.--Inanna 21:05, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Inanna 13:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Shakespeare Portal
I noticed that you edited it briefly. I'm going to work on the project, and wondered if you'd also like to get involved :) James Kendall 18:57, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you.
I would actually like to thank you for reverting the Chaldeans page. I find anyone claiming to be 100% anything kind of rediculus. Who knows what your anscestors did 2000 years ago. Most people don't even know much about their grandparents. It eerily reminds of Nazism and claiming pure Aryan blood.

Syrians
True. Is there a guideline for the order on disambig pages? Perhaps it could be changed as such: 1. citizen of Syria 2. Suryoye/Suryaye. But I thought it better to let the historical definition come first, and then the more recent one. --Benne ['bɛnə] (talk) 01:30, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

GrizZly Bear
Are you sure that 'big and fuey' isn't an improvement to the article? Maybe we could compromise on 'Big and Fuey'. :) :) :)

-Ikkyu2 02:53, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

No, I haven't seen Grizzly Man. Do you think I'd like it? I like Grizzly Bears a lot (oif - that capitalization), but I really am unsure what to make of Timothy Treadwell. Clearly he also liked Grizzly Bears a lot, but I am afraid that he was a feckless imbecile, and I am sure that I do not want to watch a movie about a feckless imbecile. Ikkyu2 06:24, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Reasons for the removal in []
I cannot believe that it is u who reverted (again!) the article in the previous version...I removed turkey,because(as u also have said) there is no possibility that half a million turkish cypriots live in turkey,and also there is no reason for mentioning any number there UNLESS they are considered distinct from the rest of the turks.the links that i have provided for the turkish cypriot population in the island of cyprus,in no way say that they are 180000.--Hectorian 08:55, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

I have started a topic in my discussion page concerning the Greeks(their number).hope u can contribute with your knowledge on the topic,id est something that i would really appreciate:)--Hectorian 09:37, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Your revert
In this edit summary you ask "where does it say that you can't have collages like this?". It doesn't. You are welcome to have a collage. However, the collage is mere decoration (althoug nice decoration) and may not contain content for which we do have sufficent authority under copyright law to distribute freely. Because of this we can clearly not use the two fair use images which are in the current collage. If there are other articles which have made the same mistake they should also be corrected. --Gmaxwell 21:58, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Might make sense to just add Persians whose pictures have no possible copyright problems on wikipedia. Not Shohreh then. Tombseye 21:16, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Kizilbashlar
Is there some reason to ph34r the Turkish spelling and use the badly-romanised form Kizilbash instead? em zilch 04:45, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * In response to your comment, I understand the basics of "Use English", but this is for ESTABLISHED NAMES and HEADINGS; I would argue that Kızılbaş is not a common term and it is in the Latin alphabet. Diacritics don't eliminate it from being Latin. In addition, people come to Wikipedia for more information; I think the use of the correct spelling is appropriate. em zilch 04:45, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * In response to your comment, the letters I use are used to transliterate foreign languages - and no, this isn't OldEnglish.Wikipedia.org. As you assuredly are aware, foreign languages have sounds that don't exist in English, and as a reference and informational service, Wikipedia should provide accuracy in the use of transliterated names. As for æ (Farsi romanisation) and ˤayns and such, they provide important information. I have seen Muˤāwiyya's name transliterated in about 40 different ways (Moaviye, Moawiya, Mo'awiyah, Mu'awiyya & cet.) and got tired of it. My concern at Wikipedia is the usefulness of its information as regards to language representation: providing the most accurate and consistent transliterations based on the usage of scholars and modern books. Modern Farsi romanisation in scholarly and teaching works is systematic, but try looking up Nowruz and see the fifty different versions of the word used depending on the language background of the writer - none of them are familiar with the standardised format. And I think Wiki readers deserve to know the "real name" of things, not just forty confusing versions, so I stick to one romanisation plan for each language (Classical Arabic, Moroccan Arabic, modern Farsi, Middle Persian) according to the best-advised schemes of accurate transliteration used for language teaching, linguistics and scholarly reference.
 * I've seen it being done by others though I can't say how common it is on Wikipedia. Regardless of how common it is, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to standardise spellings (while leaving, of course, common alternate forms like "Maghreb" in the articles as well).

Subt bot
A bot probally should be doing this but I haven't found a way to make the bot only do user talk pages and not touch templates. I have a server capable of running the bot hot in co-lo, just haven't figured out python yet. Besides, I'm having fun clicking enter wiith my remote control while doing jumping jacks :) Tawker 00:54, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I gave in, I set User:Tawkerbot to start running a screened list of user talk pages (want to make sure it doesn't revert anything bad) Tawker 02:15, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Nakhichevan
Hi Khoikhoi. You again removed the information from the article that was there from the beginning. I don’t think it is justified. This guy removes from the article the information from the reputable sources which you can check yourself. Please rv back to my version, it contains very important info. I think removal of important information is nothing but vandalism, and that’s what this guy does. Our discussion continues on the talk page, but Fadix makes edits without agreement with me, and I don’t find his removal of my info justified by anything. Regards, Grandmaster 08:03, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. You may wish to participate in the discussion on the talk page, as you have some experience in dealing with the articles on our region. Unfortunately, mediation failed, but participation of knowledgeable and impartial people in the discussion might be helpful. Regards, Grandmaster 08:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Kurdistan
Is it sprotected or not, I noticed you removed the message but I'm not sure as to it's status. Could you verify it please. Thanks! Tawker 00:43, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

آخه‌ آدم نفهم همه‌ چی چرا با این لفظ مسخره‌ ایرانی داری مارو تو دنیا میکنی ایرانی.

Mesopotamia 00:56, 14 February 2006 (UTC

زر الکی نزن همه‌تون عجم های بسیجی هستین Mesopotamia 00:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

بازم میگم زر الکی نزن تو دشمن کردی من تو دشمن توام.

Mesopotamia 01:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Merger of Chakhar to Aimak
Hi Khoikhoi,

On December 23rd of last year, you proposed that the information contained in Chakhar should be merged into the article Aimak.

The merger has not been completed as of February 13th. I noticed the article(s) today, and also disagree with the merger proposal for the following reasons:
 * Based on the information contained in the article Chakhar, the Chakhar are a group of Mongols whose dominance extended in or around Northern China (and most likely Tibet)
 * Based on the information contained in the article Aimak, the Aimak are a group of nomative tribespeople whose dominance now lie in Afghanistan and other Middle Eastern Countries.

I, personally, do not know anything about the two article topics, but they seem remote enough to be considered as separate articles. However, as you believe they are the same, perhaps you could enlighten me. I have removed the merger notice for now, pending your reply. Kareeser|Talk! 02:38, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Wow! I had no idea you were online... It's great to have that cleared up =) Kareeser|Talk! 02:44, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Hey man, thanks for doing that to my page :) I never thought of doing anything with it. I just took a look at my username and saw something odd--it was blue for the first time :) Thanks again.--TigranTheGreat 03:27, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Country
I noticed an edit change which seemed to make the flags appear in the middle of the boxes, but you reverted it. May I ask why?--naryathegreat | (talk) 02:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay. In what way did it mess it up?--naryathegreat | (talk) 02:08, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * *sigh* Very well...is there any other way to fix it than that code? Could we live with a messed up Switzerland, or maybe upload a resized coat of arms?--naryathegreat | (talk) 02:11, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Reisio just posted to the talk page that he was coding up a fix that would work for every article right now. I hope it happens soon.--naryathegreat | (talk) 02:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

History of Azerbaijan
Hey, when you reverted to the earlier version I think you might have removed my later additions as well. Please add them back unless you think they're wrong.--Eupator 20:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Cheers.--Eupator 23:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Hectorian Good job u did with by reverting Cyrus78's vandalism.Thanks:)--Hectorian 22:17, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Hectorian

Hello,Khoikhoi!:)take a look in the talking page of Turkish Cypriots.all i am asking is just reliable sources...And instead of this,all i get is sources from nationalistic websites!!!i do not wanna drive u into a conflict with that inanna...i am asking some advice of what can be done in order the article to be accurate...And something else...pls explain her(?) how did the greeks behave to the jews during the nazi occupation of greece,cause i am sick of hearing people saying that we are responsible for their elimination...thanks in advance.--Hectorian 04:21, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Templets
What happend to the independent templets? :( Chaldean 06:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks bro, I dont know what happend to Pylambert? I mean, its not like he didnt get it his way? So what made him angry? Chaldean 06:54, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * it's "please don't leave", not "please don't live".  how embarrasing :D Chaldean 07:01, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * So I dont understand how you found out he is leaving? Chaldean 07:06, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Bro I think some Turkish extremist has deleted them, because I am looking at other independent templets and they are all still alive and running. Only the Assyrian and Kurdish one has been deleted. Is there anyway to get them back? How can you find out who deleted them? Chaldean 04:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Template:User independent Nagorno-Karabakh I got it from this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:RaffiKojian Thanks for teaching me English :D Chaldean 04:57, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks alot bro :) I tried to add something to it, but I think I screwed it up xD Chaldean 05:30, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Did I ever tell you, your the man? :) Chaldean 05:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

I dont get it. I mean, he got his wish of putting all the names into the one Assyrian page. Maybe another topic bothered him alot and didnt get it his way. Who knowns. Hope he comes back. Chaldean 05:39, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the offer bud. Well, would you like to do the thing that I suggested some time ago? About how like all other Ethnic pages, they have 4-5 people of that race in the top. Would you like to do that for the Assyrian page? I am currently at a computer that doesnt have any photoshop/paint programs. Chaldean 05:59, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

An Empresive resume you have indeed :D. Well, since we have "Syriacs" combined with Assyrian page now, I think it would be ok to have Mor Afrem Suryoyo (Ephrem the Syrian). Long time ago, I had gotten permession from a Orthodox website to use his pictures, but never used them. Check them out= - Dont know which one to choose, which one you think is best? Also, I noticed in the Greek page, they have Alexander the Great as one of there men. Well, it is obvious that this is a political/historical move they did, stamping him as Greek. Well, if Assyrians think they are from the Ancient Assyrian civlization, then I think its fair to use a Assyian king like Ashurbanipal. To make it uniqe, we can use a Assyrian explorer/educater like Hormuzd Rassam. Also, another would be Agha Petros, and the mid to late 20th Century Assyrian hero, Ammo Baba.


 * Good, but replace Hormuzd Rassam with Agha Petros. Petros was the only modern time Assyrian military leader ever. He is very important in Assyrian history. Chaldean 06:38, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

That is awesome! Its great, I like it alot. Thank you so much :). Hopefully the rest will be happy about it when they see it tomorrow :D Chaldean 07:16, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * 10AM. I will be heading back to the states this coming weekend :) Chaldean 07:21, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Just like the majority of Chaldeans in the U.S., Detroit. Goooooo Pistons :D Chaldean 07:31, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Dont know Sargonious personally. I think his from Chicago? That Cali weather is nie these days isn't it? :) I visited San Diego 4 years ago, and I was wearing shorts and shirt in Febuary! Yup, paying the high taxs are sure worth it. :D. Chaldean 07:35, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't reply back, the power went out :D Chaldean 14:52, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Iranian people's talk edit
All of the comments I've deleted were unsigned. People are supposed to sign their comments. If it was just one comment I'd go and find the edit in the history page and sign it for him. But when you have this many unsigned comments there's nothing one can do but to delete them. AucamanTalk 09:12, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks !
Hi, and thanks for your helps in editing pages related to Iran. Please help us to remove any NPOV and vandalism. You may have felt that some people are taking revenge from Persians. They insist on distributing arabized form of persian words for example Farsis istead of persians. Most of these people are Kurds and arabs. and they know quite well that by using these words they will bother educated persians. Using such words has been officially banned by Academy of Persian language which is an international academy and has the highest position in affairs related to persian language. You have also seen that some kurds are insisting on using a source from 10 years ago to show that the population of persians is low! I deleted the source and used a recent population estimate form 2005. The latter is the same source that Kurds themselves used to write Kurdish people page ! Any ways thank you for helping us on writing pages related to Iran. --Gorbeh 09:33, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Hectorian
Hi!in fact,i proposed to use the CIA world factbook,or maybe the EU sources...neither a greek nor a turkish source...But i made this proposal in vain...

no,she has showed me no sources about the jews in greece during WWII.i am sure she cannot find any...I have never heard in my life of greeks surrendering jews to the nazis.only that we did our best to protect them...Afterall,the President of Israel was here last week and said the same.

About the Armenian Genocide,she says that it never happened and that it is just 'an armenian lie' to steal turkey's money.she even goes further by saying that it was a turkish genocide committed by the armenians...!this is why i asked your advice...cause i have found myself trying to defend accuracy of articles and facts,but i guess i am not able in doing much,since she does not accept something that she does not like...(historic events,official recognitions,etc...)


 * sorry for not making a headline in my last edit in your talking page,and for mistakenly editting in the irrelevant topic 'history of azerbaijan'...:)--Hectorian 19:25, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

okay:)so we will have to wait till it will be reverted again...

about what u asked me...talking from personal experience,before 1990(when the big migrant wave of albanians began) i rarely met any non greek in my region(Thessaly).the only foreigners that i had met were those married with greeks,the english teachers at schools and perhaps a handful of workers.in greece there have always been,of course,arvanitic and vlach linguistic groups(i am a vlach myself from my father's side,i understand the language quite well,but i do not speak it,cause it was difficult to learn it since my mother is not a speaker of this).i have never heard any arvanite or vlach saying that he/she is not greek.i never thought of that for myself,not even my grandma ever said something like that,and no song or story of the vlachs says something about another homeland...on the contrary,all are talking about the 'autochthonous' element(as far as i am aware of the subject,at least).furthermore,arvanites and vlachs have always been billingual for as long as there is recorded history about them.first time here in wikipedia i saw that some people are trying to create such a 'dispute':(...the only groups that were seen as 'different' prior to 1990,were the greek jews and the muslims in thraki,and that cause of religion,and cause intemarriages were seldom(i know stories about e.g. a greek orthodox wanting to marry a jew,but both families had objections).and jews in greece tend to marry among themselves,not in a sense of been discriminated,but in a sense to maintain their fate and customs.Roma's were also considered culturally foreigners in origins,mainly cause of their nomadic way of living...

apart from my personal experience,greece has a strange law about citizenship.for example if someone is born in canada,ukraine,or elsewhere and has a greek parent,can apply and be granted citizenship...but if someone lives in greece,but is not greek in origins,has to wait for several years till such an application.i heard that this law will be changed(or maybe has already changed through parliamentary voting...i am not sure).but in 2001 this law was still active,and since the greek census of 2001 counted greek citizens,the vast majority of the census result(up to 98%)are greeks.the muslims in thraki (1.3%) and a few other groups (6000 jews,some germans,british,finns,etc who live in the islands and other touristic places for many years) make up the remaining 2%.

so,if someone wanted to change the demographics of greece here in Wikipedia,he/she should have in mind that the almost 1 million immigrants are not counted in the census,cause they are not greek citizens.

i hope i have helped u enough,although i have included personal experience too:)--Hectorian 22:22, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

hehe...no reason to be assimilated...the only difference between the Vlachs and the rest greeks is the 2nd language...all the rest are part of regional culture:)what i mean is that e.g.the cretans have their own dances,and so do we.we have some traditional food making,as the Rhodians have their own.such sort of things that by no means can be considered enough to acclaim a separate ethnic identity.i come from central greece,from Thessaly,from an area where the Meteora are [].i am not an islander!:)although i have to admit(with a sense of modesty)that the aegean islands are marvelous!!!

Maybe u,as a jew,would be interested in my hometown's history,Trikala...cause although we never had a significant jewish community(in terms of population) and even though there are just 40-50 left(the rest have migratted to israel-i never heard of anyone been killed by the nazis there)there is still a synagogue and a jewish cemetery...

cause i am curious,where do u come from?:)--Hectorian 03:25, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

well,i never said that the turks did not protect the jews during WWII.afterall,turkey did not even take part in the war! California?hmmm...interesting!i watch things refearing to california almost every day on TV:)--Hectorian 14:32, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing my templates in my userpage:)--Hectorian 16:50, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

For Questions
Khoikhoi, if you have personal questions so please ask me.Dont use tongs...Inanna 01:18, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm talking about what you wrote in your lovely friend's talk page...Inanna 09:57, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Read before admiring greeks, ...read what happened in 1901 and you should search for more...Inanna 21:30, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi, I'm concerned about the pictures on Turkish people. It seems that there are fair use images on both of them - see Fair use. It's a very dodgy area, so I think it'd be better if the FU images were replaced with PD images. The woman (whom I've never heard of) can't be that important. You must be able to think of someone else, who will have a PD image. --Latinus 21:52, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Roman K. Kovalev
I have added material explaining his contributions to the field. I hope you will reconsider your delete vote. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 22:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks! Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 22:33, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course not you and me.MY NATION...!

AN/I
Thanks, that IP is blocked. I've started a thread on this at WP:AN/I--please comment there. I have to go in a few minutes, so if she continues to evade her block you'll have to get another admin to handle it. Chick Bowen 22:40, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * By the way, Khoikhoi, please try to ignore her as much as possible. If you could post to WP:AN/I and leave it to an admin rather than engaging her directly, it might help diffuse the situation.  I know nothing about your conflict and I'm not judging at all who's right and who's wrong; I just want everyone to settle down a bit.  Thanks.  Chick Bowen 22:48, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppets and such

 * Hey, no problem. I think the user who made the personal attack is a sockpuppet of User:-Inanna-, who was just blocked a few minutes ago for blanking pages. Would you be able to determine if I'm correct? Thanks. --Khoikhoi 22:35, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know how to check whether x is sockpuppet of y. However, I know that User:Jayjg has done such checks in the past; maybe he can help you out. Good luck. Briangotts (Talk) (Contrib) 22:48, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Statement
I edited this because the enclaves were really not primarily blockaded and embargoed by the Republic of Cyprus. This was not an ultranationalist rant either. A statement must be made that Makarios's amendments were rejected outright by the Government of Turkey, even before their consideration by the Turkish Cypriots. The Turkish Cypriot leadership followed suit and immediately the Turkish Cypriot leadership openly called for partition. Turkish policemen and civil servants withdrew from their posts en masse and Ankara threatened to invade. Facing a very grave threat to the Republic’s existence the Government tried to contain the revolt but could do little to prevent armed civilians from both sides from taking part in the clashes(too weak with little assistance from Britain, the other guarantor power - this later led to the establishment of UNFICYP, the United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Cyprus in 1964). The instances when these irregulars failed to distinguish between combatants and non-combatants tainted the conflict with sectarian violence and loss of innocent lives in both communities.

These tragic but isolated events were utilised by the Turkish Cypriot nationalist leaders in their propaganda that the two communities could not live together, in spite of the fact that this leadership bore a heavy responsibility for the political situation. A large number of Turkish Cypriots withdrew into the enclaves, partly as a consequence of the hostilities that had taken place but mostly due to the efforts of their nationalist leadership to enforce a de-facto partition of the island. In doing so the Turkish Cypriot nationalist leadership had turned against members of their community who stood for co-operation between the two communities.


 * The other major purpose served by the enclaves was the political and physical separation of the two communities. Despite the Turkish leadership’s claims to be motivated by concern for their community, the policy of forced segregation created very considerable economic and social hardship for the mass of the Turkish Cypriots. This fact was noted in the UN Secretary General’s reports on Cyprus:


 * “Indeed, since the Turkish Cypriot leadership is committed to physical and geographical separation of the communities as a political goal, it is not likely to encourage activities by Turkish Cypriots which may be interpreted as demonstrating the merits of an alternative policy. The result has been a seemingly deliberate policy of self-segregation by the Turkish Cypriots (S/6426, Report of 10.6.1965, p. 271)”.

Thus, a large number of Turkish Cypriots withdrew into the enclaves, partly as a consequence of the hostilities that had taken place but mostly due to the efforts of their nationalist leadership to enforce a de-facto partition of the island. In doing so the Turkish Cypriot nationalist leadership had turned against members of their community who stood for co-operation between the two communities.(UNFanatic)

Inner Mongolia
Hi Khoikhoi, I've got a ... situation ... here with a POV pusher. Could you help me communicate with this guy? Thanks! -- ran (talk) 05:12, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Hybridlily
Tell me, is this an Inannian sock? I think this edit summary says it all: "khoi... watchdogs" - who do we know who jokes about your username and talks about watchdogs? --Latinus 15:52, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[]...Have fun...

Merging the article

 * Dear khoikhoi, for the last time I merge the article to Iranian languages. please help me and do not revert. I do not like to waste our times. Why we oppose reallity?

I believe that you are neutral and will help. I'm waiting for your reply. Thank you very much.
 *  D iyako Talk + 21:42, 22 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, so I merge it. Thanks.
 *  D iyako Talk + 22:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Cypriots
Take a look in my proposal,and correct anything that may be not accurate,or that may not be objective.I tried not to make it pro-greek...i guess i was neutral enough...--Hectorian 22:39, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

goddess?haha:) i was hoping that she would reply to me in the turkish cypriots talk page...i bet she has it in her watchlist... i will notify her,but i have the suspicion that she will say nothing,but will wait to revert the article again when it will stop be protected...--Hectorian 23:17, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

thanks:)u know by far better than me why Wikipedia works:)--Hectorian 23:27, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

3RR
Hi, because it's late over here, can you please report Inanna for violating the 3RR at Turkmen people mutiple times. Thanks :-) --Latinus 00:06, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Never mind, I've already reported her. --Latinus 00:15, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Look what happened: Administrators' noticeboard/3RR :-) --Latinus 00:30, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

don't bother!:)I reverted it myself!she will either learn how to take part in a dialogue,or her POVish edits will be reverted for ever...--Hectorian 00:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Question, Inanna calls me a "watchdog"; what does she mean? --Latinus 00:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * BTW I've cleared up her vandalism - Good night... --Latinus 00:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Your Good Guy
I read your edits and discussions with others. We must work together and with Zereshk to make sure Kurds are identified properly as Iranians.

LOL, I'm fool of it?
Why do you say that. Acuman is trying to give me a hard time. It is like me tell you that just you saying "Your full of it!" is a personal attack and warning you. No way. Acuman is very biased and he has to chance his ways.....

Oh sorry...I misread and I notice I have bad typos. Thanks.

I am working on the Kurdish article article....ya I'll get sources for Iranian people
It is sad I have a whole library of book on this stuff at home, but the internet has nothing. A lot of it has been blotted out in the last 5 years. 69.196.139.250 07:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Please stop vandalizing the articles on Turkey
Historical names are mentioned already in the history part of the articles. Wikipedia is not the place for chauvinism.


 * Thank you for keeping alternate names in the heads of articles on Turkey and wherever else; re-direct policy is to make it clear to those people who arrive via a redirect to know quickly (like the 1st paragraph) that they've arrived at the right place (e.g., suddenly an article on Adana shows up when you have searched for Antiochia ad Sarum) without having to sift through the history section to know that the redirect makes sense. Carlossuarez46 21:49, 23 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the thanks. I left a msg on his talk page as well citing the chapter and verse of the WP policies on why the names need to stay and pointed out that per this policy we have Turkish synonyms of Greek and Bulgarian places formerly ruled by Turkey (I gave an example of one I know of). You may want to read what I wrote there.  Also, is there a classical geography portal or interest group here? I would like to join one or find a few like-minded souls to form one if there isn't one yet.  I just got through making a first stab at all the Antiochias of old (a few had real articles and those I mostly left alone, but most didn't so I was bold).  Please let me know if there is such a portal or if not whether you'd like to help start one, if you'd prefer to email me rather than carry on a public conversation, please feel free to do so: my username at hotmail dot com. Carlossuarez46 22:21, 23 February 2006 (UTC)