User talk:Kiefer.Wolfowitz/Archive 28

The Signpost: 06 February 2012

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 * EdwardsBot (talk) 23:49, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey ho
Kiefer, I think you have a really cool signature. All the best with your ventures off-wiki. Drmies (talk) 23:00, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Drmies,
 * As you know, good signatures are emulated. Great signatures are stolen!
 * Cheers, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:19, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Thomas L. Rhodes
Thanks for your note! Having begun the article again (without copyvio) the issue is, it seems to me, largely resolved. Per the warning in the page,
 * "Unless the copyright status of the text on this page is clarified, it may be deleted one week after the time of its listing. "

I have, therefore, deleted the copy vio and begun again. If you think it is important and can get an admin to go back and delete the article's history go for it! I haven't had any luck with getting an admin to look at it. I'd like to work to improve the non-copyvio article. Capitalismojo (talk) 22:33, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Capitalismojo!
 * I trust that Dr. Evil has not taken your mojo, too! I should have thought that you, of all people, should have prioritized the sanctity of property rights, even intellectual property rights. The collectivists have cut down even Albion's fatal tree, which used to safeguard property with sacrifices to Odin.
 * Administrators have so many more pressing tasks than revert-deleting the page histories containing copyright-violations—like hounding Malleus or rolling over and getting their tummies scratched on Jimbo's talk page. ;)
 * Cheers, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 13:07, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have swiped everything prior to Cpitalistmojo's edit, on the express understanding that he blanked the page and started again. For the record, if articles contain a mix of good stuff and copyvio and you keep the good stuff, it's almost impossible to revdel the copyvio edits.  References could do with a tidy up if either of you guys has a moment. (While no shrinking violet, Elen of the Roads humbly took no credit for another good deed!  Kiefer .Wolfowitz 20:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC))


 * Dear Elen,
 * Thank you for your help, and explanation, which is somewhat over my head, like when Q explained to Jean-Luc Picard how he should save the Starship Enterprise---"Just redefine the gravitational constant of the universe!"
 * Speaking of Star Trek and for your amusement, I want to inform you that there has been further population of the category Speakers of Klingon, which now includes characters and actors from the first Klingon opera (performed on earth)! *LOL*
 * There are weirder parts of the world, after all...! :D
 * Best regards, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 20:07, 7 February 2012 (UTC)
 * "There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow ..." Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 10:31, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That video and WP lately remind me of Stealers Wheels's Stuck in the Middle with You: "Clowns to the left of me, and jokers to the right". Kiefer .Wolfowitz 21:26, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Curse you Pesky! I clicked on that link at work (lunchbreak) and treated the entire office to a burst of the Star Trek song..... Elen of the Roads (talk) 14:29, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on the job, Elen!
 * This has been one of the best days of my life, despite a cold! :)
 * Very best regards, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 15:22, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It's only temporary (4 months at the moment) but onwards to better things (and it pays the mortgage :). Elen of the Roads (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Anybody with half a brain would love to have you in any management position. Unfortunately, the economy has been forcing draconian cuts that damage medium- and long-term productivity. (We heard last week that Astra Zeneca is cutting one of its two remaining research facilities in Sweden, having closed its facility in Lund a few years ago: I'm glad that I didn't apply for one of their statistician jobs advertised last August.)
 * I feel for you. I've been sweating about a grant, which my sources say is now coming down the pipeline, etc. Lots of good news today! :)
 * Cheers, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 16:20, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That sounds like really good news all round. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:29, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That was good news but really peanuts. :)
 * I have known for some months that I was going to join your and Cullen328 and Drmies's club, although Drmies has joined it twice before. :D
 * Now we know that all is well. :D Better than well. I have a new background for my desktop, and my videos have new "favorites". :D The world has to prepare itself for a new microbiologist who already seems to be practicing with pippettes, or dancing, or perhaps (like her mom) trying to get more sleeping room one moment before falling into a deep sleep the next! :D Kiefer .Wolfowitz 06:57, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

If you fancy any changes of desktop scenery, try these. Pesky ( talk …stalk!) 16:35, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

Your pic!


Wow! You actually look how I imagined you! Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 10:35, 22 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I wish that I had found pictures of Kiefer and Wolfowitz in their youth! However, the eye twinkles are ageless! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 17:34, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * You have a wonderful face; I'd love it if you could come over to the New Forest some day and we could go out for a beer together :o) Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 17:39, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * All credit for my visage should go to Kiefer and Wolfowitz. ;)  Kiefer .Wolfowitz 18:57, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * My brain was clearly asleep (actually, doing its own Morph(ine)Thing); I've only just noticed the MorphThing logo ..... do you actually look anything like that? Or better? ;P Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 19:02, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * If you would morph Adonis, John Madden, Frodo Baggins, and Vulcan, you might come close. 19:07, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * ROFL! As for me, when Ironholds met me in Real Life, apparently his first thought was: "OMG! Were you born, or carved out of teak?"  I did point out that as teak is not native to these isles, it was probably oak ;P  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 19:11, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Vulcan has nice buns ... Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 19:55, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Honestly, it's best to junk RfA Deform, which has too many true believers and as far as I can see almost no leadership willing to tell the zealots to chill out, e.g. w.r.t. Keepscases. In my mind, some of the RfA deformers are soft on plagiarism, also, and this makes me suspicious. An RfA nomination from an RfA deformer hoists a red flag that the content-contributions may be weak (and so the understanding of WP policies may be weak) or that this could be another busybody administrator who doesn't know his or her place. Better for you and Sandy or Malleus to come to some agreement, and avoid the virtuous "club" atmosphere at RfA Deform. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 14:05, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Hrmmph! [knackered today]. I think if we could broaden the membership to include people like yourself, Sandy, Malleus, and a few others, it could be less skewed.  I think it's worth a shot before thinking of ditching it and starting over  otherwise we'll still get a "them and us" situation, just the other way about! I don;t know enough about people to be able to identify a plagiarism-enabler off the top of my head, but will take your word for it.  I (when I;m active, properly) wage war on copyvios & co. in npp.  I never wanna be a Nadmin, but I'd go for unbundling of the delete/undelete button just so I could zap G12's myself, as opposed to taking pot luck with admins and hoping I get a copyvio-zapper rather than someone who will strip the 99% copyvio and leave the 1% badly-written introductory (and unreferenced) sentence!  What's the point in blanking out the copyvio bit and leaving it there in the history? D'oh!  And ending up with a disgusting little stub which says virtually nothing, and was nearly-written by someone who clearly didn't have a clue what the subject was about, and just happened across a cool-sounding bit of someone else's prose which they could copy and paste in?  It's a shame that RfA Deform has managed to get itself some bad labels, but I'd rather rehabilitate the dog than shoot it, if that's possible.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 14:27, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I would like to declare my genius ;P
I have turned the pic on the left into the pic on the right! Am I good, or what?! Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 10:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC)


 * That's really great!
 * I think that some newspapers prohibit such re-touching, but it doesn't seem to matter here. Your description of the retouched picture clarifies its status sufficiently.
 * Well done!
 * Kiefer .Wolfowitz 13:10, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * So any time you need a picture comprehensively mutilated for an article, you now know whom to ask, lol! I haz my uses. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 13:57, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Nice that you and Cullen328 found each other. He is also a very kind person, and he's already fixed photographs for me, without even being asked!
 * Kiefer .Wolfowitz 08:50, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Pesky, that's just amazing. Well done!--v/r - TP 21:07, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Pesky gives us Glenn Campbell's Ovation, standing, and we give Pesky a standing ovation! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:58, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I have to say that's really impressive work Pesky! Malleus Fatuorum 21:38, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I second that emotion. It rewards restudy. For example, you must have spent time reusing the images so that you have a realistic looking background, with no (obvious) repetitions. BRAVO! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 15:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Glen Campbell and Ovation guitars


Would you try to crop Glen Campbell to show his upper torso and guitar, for the article on Ovation guitars, please? Kiefer .Wolfowitz 09:45, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * D'oh, I'm stupid ... I just did the pic at the top of the Glen Campbell article, by mistake :( Too tired, I guess. Don;t s'pose anyone wants that one, do they?  Not sure what kind of guitar he's got there .... I'll get around to the other one some time very soon.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 21:22, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
 * OK, here ya go! I tweaked it around a bit. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 22:14, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Pesky,
 * Thanks for you! I think that the picture should contain Glen Campbell's upper torso and head (and the guitar), but I am sure that you are better qualified to judge "hot-legs" inclusion! ;)
 * Kiefer .Wolfowitz 01:12, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * D'oh! You want his head, too, huh? Can do; gimme a little while, though  caring for mother is being a bit tricky at the moment!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 12:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Hey, look! Fresh pic ;P Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 17:19, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Perfect! Well done! It's in the Glen Campbell article! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:54, 5 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I thought of your caring for your mom when I read about GC and watched his new video.
 * Another reason for such thoughts was that I just threw out some "hug mugs" that my mother had received when she was dying of her last cancer. I had held on to them like sacred relics. I wish that I had tried to learn to relax more when I was driving to and waiting in emergency rooms, etc., to deal with infections and blood clots, or at the end. It's better to remember the times before illness, although the stress-response (esp. adrenalin) makes it hard to let go of the last memories.
 * In retrospect, I think that my mother would have preferred me to have left her alone in the hospital, at least for most of each day, or let her die of an infection or clot, in retrospect. She was so strong that she lived long after the oncologists thought she would pass, and this was a hardship for herself and for my brother and sister. (Another brother had a young child, and their visits were like elixir.)
 * Our lives are our own, and no proper mother wants her children to become martyrs. My mother's best friend said that she definitely wanted her children to put her in a nursing home, and that my mother should not have cared for my grandmother so long (up until the last cancer surgery).
 * I'm sorry for writing personally and publicly, but I think these thoughts are of general interest. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:54, 5 February 2012 (UTC) (forgot to sign earlier, apparently)
 * Our worst problem at the moment with mother is that she's recently had a seriously nasty infection and is currently on her second course of antibiotics for it. We called an ambulance out to her a few days back, but the paramedics thought she would probably get a better standard of nursing at home than in hospital; this, combined with the fact that any sudden change in environment only makes dementia sufferers worse, helped us decide to keep her at home.  We spent a couple of high-intensity days having to syringe-feed her, as she was too weak / disoriented even to suck on a straw,  but she's definitely improving a bit now.  She's feeling well enough to be difficult, anyway ... heh!  Sometimes you just can't win! If we put her into a home for anything other than the current one weekend every three weeks, she would just fade away, and be completely miserable.  As it is, at home, she usually has at least one of the household pets keeping her company; Bryn in particular (humungous Maine Coon cat, about 4ft long and weighing about 10kg), will happily spend hours lying on the bed next to her.  He doesn't mind in the slightest if she talks word salad to him, as his response is always just "Mrrrrphhh!", which she considers to be adequate ...  Somehow, we cope.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 13:17, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Do not go gentle, etc.
I am saddened to learn that (like KW) Glen Campbell has been suffering from Alzheimer's, but GC's Alzheimer's has been confirmed by a medical doctor (rather than this hypochondriac).

Written by The Replacements's Paul Westerberg, "Ghost on the Canvass" and GC's performance are destined to be remembered with the bittersweet "Keep Me In Your Heart" by Warren Zevon (RIP).
 * Bitter-Sweet


 * Ah, my dear angry Lord,
 * Since thou dost love, yet strike;
 * Cast down, yet help afford;
 * Sure I will do the like.


 * I will complain, yet praise;
 * I will bewail, approve;
 * And all my sour-sweet days
 * I will lament and love.


 * George Herbert

What a comfort Ashley Campbell must be to her father!

Sincerely, Kiefer .Wolfowitz 01:12, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Alzheimers etc.

 * You haz Alzheimers? :o(  How sure are you?  Could it be something else, or a combination of other things?  Check out this; you  may not be as bad as you think. (>**)> Megahugz, anyways.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 12:23, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Just a thought: it's more than possible that you may have a moderate B12 deficiency. Same symptoms.  Try a concentrated B12 supplement for several weeks.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 13:17, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Contextual memory and habits are so vital to functioning, particularly for elderly persons. My grandmother was able to simulate herself, pretending to read books and only rarely asking "when shall we go home" as though she were a little girl, again. Most of the time, she was herself and knew who everybody was, being in her usual over-protective mode. She declined rapidly when she entered the nursing home, but then she wasn't fearful or completely gone. She just wanted to sleep and use the toilet, and then she was happy. She even liked and asked my then girlfriend for a hug, after having been resentful-suspicious of her at my mother's house, etc. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 13:38, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * My elder daughter works in a care home, where they do right up to and including end-of-life care. (That's the one where mother goes for her weekends of respite-care, conveniently!) A lot of the residents there are very huggy, touchy-feely with the carers.  My daughter's only challenge is that she hasn't yet developed a good coping mechanism for when one of her favourites dies; she lost three of her "specials" within a fortnight just recently, and was very down, poor lass. When mother's up and about, she loves to watch all the old musicals; we bought her a heap of them on DVD from Amazon, and she sings along.   Memory's a very strange thing; the other day she was quoting vast chunks of Shakespeare, with more lucidity and less slurring than her normal speech. Odd.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 14:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 * We saw The Iron Lady last night, which dramatized her contemporary life, where she apparently suffers from Alzheimer's. I have had trouble sympathizing with her before, perhaps projecting my dislike of Reagan onto her; it is only in the last years that I have found any sympathy for Reagan's actions. Thatcher apparently also enjoys DVDs of old musicals, especially The King and I. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 12:17, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * We've managed to get her downstairs today; thanks to some full-body slings we bought (on eBay, where else ...). Though they're designed to be used with a hoist, they can also be used with one person each side, just to carry someone with, so we carried her from her bed to the stairlift, and from the stairlift to the sitting room, where she's now watching The Sound of Music. :o)  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 15:17, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have long grown tired of the herd of independent minds that puts down The Sound of Music and Abba. Abba was loved by all the leading punk rockers, for example! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 15:22, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Couldn't agree more! Do try that mega-dose vitamin B12 thing for at least a couple of months; it will do you no harm and may do you a great deal of good.  Eating B12-rich foods won;t necessarily solve it, as sometimes a problem can be casuewd by decreasing ability to separate the vitamin from the proteins in the food; a B12 supplement doesn;t have this challenge attached, the vitamin is much more bio-available.  Check out the article in that encyclopaedia-wossname ...  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 11:46, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Hi Pesky,
 * My mind is optimized for long-term memory and rapid recall, but not for short-term memory (unless the information improves reproductive fitness). ;)
 * I joke about Alzheimer's as self-deprecatory humor.
 * I shall try the vitamins, however, which cannot hurt. (Also, I am much younger than Kiefer or Wolfowitz were when their pictures are taken.) I find that fish oil (omega 3) improves my recollection of dreams, immediately, and I cannot say that about vitamins. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:56, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, Omega 3 is excellent stuff; get some Omega 6 as well. Hit the damned challenge from every angle! The omega oils made a difference to my other half (ADHD and dyslexia) in focus and memory; not a huge difference, but noticeable. There are so many grades of cognitive non-perfection; stress, over-work, lack of sleep, worrying about cognitive impairment ... all these things can add up. So, do as much as you can to ensure that at least your vitamin and mineral requirements are really well met. I don't know if you smoke, but it's been discovered that nicotine may slow/stop the progression of some forms of dementia ;P (It's not my excuse for smoking, but come to think of it, it would be a darned good one, lol!) Knock all the possible contributory factors out of touch, and then check out that cognitive function test on a day when you're feeling pretty good. And make sure your mouse is completely clean and the clicker is working at its best before youstart! I would have scored much better on it without the stupid neuro problems, which affect sensory and motor function in my hands and arms, but even as it was, I did OK. Better than I was expecting, at any rate! Relaxation is vital; none of us work well when burnt-out. If you;d like a change of scenery, join in on the "improving-the Meermin" project. It's fascinating, and fun. If you know any Dutch-speakers, that would be even more fun! And if you can get online access to the Alexander 2003 BA thesis, I will be your slave for life. Or at least till next week ;P Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 12:55, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Meermin slave mutiny (continued)

 * this 'ere one is what we want. Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 15:52, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I could try some South African mathematicians, whom I haven't spoken to in years, though. I would bet that Elen of the Roads would know somebody who can get you a copy of that. Hint, hint! :D Kiefer .Wolfowitz 15:58, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've put a "wanted" notice on the Reference desk  but I'll ping Elen, too!  Thanks for the tip!  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 17:05, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Anybody alluding to artists whose albums once were filed next to The Indestructible Beat of Soweto is a likely candidate for having a Cape-Town U. connection. :)  (But see above about treading cautiously around likelihoods, mindful of their disasters ....)  Kiefer .Wolfowitz 17:22, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

I mentioned your name ...
...over here; regarding the idea you came up with at ArbCom. Would you like to chip in here? I think your input could be extremely useful. Pesky ( talk  …stalk!) 07:57, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that you are an excellent advocate, and indeed I think that you provide a better introduction to the idea. My only comment is that WMF's lawyer (the one who doesn't respond just responded to queries about non-adult administrators) fears liability if any un-bundling of administrator tools and administratorship be made.  Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:18, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Um, is all I can say to that. ;P I've never yet met a lawyer who wasn't scared to death of something. Your thoughts over there really would be useful; MF is making some good points, and when it's a case of brainstorming, the more intelligent and insightful minds on the subject, the better.  Pesky  ( talk  …stalk!) 20:24, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The conversation is unfocused, and I don't have the energy to participate. If you and Malleus agree, then you can add my name.
 * It seems like people understand that any unbundling cannot reduce the standards for viewing deleted content.
 * I need to do some work and also I want to enjoy positive news(es?) today! Kiefer .Wolfowitz 20:50, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've been an advocate of some kind of unbundling of the administrator toolkit for years, and I still am, but I've come to learn that it'll never fly, for two reasons: it involves those with power relinquishing at least some of it and it requires a software change, both of which are insoluble organisational problems. Not insoluble problems per se, but insoluble on Wikipedia. Malleus Fatuorum 21:10, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * When I worked at a great organization, I never appreciated how wonderful it is to work where people focus on accomplishing tasks and just get things done. Now I'm older, wider, and pessimistic about change. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 21:13, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * By and large people are afraid of change, but malcontents like myself embrace it, as I think that almost anything's got to be better than what we have. BTW, I think the legal opinion that unbundling the delete function would lead to some kind of potential liability is just about as half-baked an idea as I've seen from any lawyer. And the more I think about it, the more convinced I become that the concept of "administrator" here is a deeply flawed one, as in fact administrators can carry out no administrative functions at all. Consequently I'd unbundle every single "right". Malleus Fatuorum 21:19, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Not the delete button, but the power to view deleted material.... Kiefer .Wolfowitz 21:28, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It's bollocks whichever way you slice it. Malleus Fatuorum 21:35, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Slicing bollocks is not my favorite metaphor. ;)
 * A rare disagreement with Malleus: On the contrary, I am surprised that WMF and public Wikipedia officers have not already been sued for providing illegal images to minor administrators. Thus, I am surprised that the WMF lawyers haven't demanded that we require 18 years of age for administrator status. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 21:39, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That way lies that most uncommon of commodities here, common sense. The only potential legal issue with being able to read deleted material is that not just anyone be allowed to do it, and so if the delete button were unbundled it would be no different to the present situation, where those to whom the right hasn't been granted wouldn't be able to see deleted material. In what way is that different from what happens now, except in the way that the right is allocated? I've often wondered whether those subjects who have material they object to "deleted", or perhaps more particularly their lawyers, actually realise that the material isn't actually deleted at all, but remains visible to well over 1500 editors? Malleus Fatuorum 21:53, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe I'm just tired...
 * Unbundling the delete button does not seem to be a problem for anybody, as long as the delete-empowered helpers are not allowed to read deleted material.
 * As I said, maybe I'm tired or my cold has started to infect my brain. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 21:58, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I shared your concern with WMF's lawyer. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 22:04, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It'll be interesting to see what they have to say for themselves, but I was actually thinking of the lawyers on the other side of the divide, acting for those demanding the deletion of some defamatory material. Malleus Fatuorum 22:21, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Since I'm fully tooled up....unbundling the delete button to only show deleted articles and revision deletions (not oversights as well) should not be a problem, since anything privacy related should be oversighted. Revdel should be only used for things that are vandalistically rude, libellously rude, or a copyvio. The legal issue only arises in relation to personal data, not insults. What might cause a problem is giving access to the restore button. As long as you can't delete it or restore it, just see it, you can't cause too much damage. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:37, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I quite agree, so why do so many others find that so difficult to understand? Malleus Fatuorum 23:41, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * BTW, are you saying that oversighted deletions aren't actually deleted either, just flagged as oversighted? Malleus Fatuorum 23:42, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
 * It is possible for another Oversighter to see an oversighted edit. No-one else can, which makes the pool quite small.  If you think about it, threats to blow up Big Ben are usually oversighted, but can be restored by someone with the Oversight tool if someone actually does need to see it.Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Elen and Malleus. I am beginning to understand, now. :) Kiefer .Wolfowitz 06:17, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Unbundling a few tools here and there shouldn't be a problem at all, software or otherwise. Trying to ensure that everyone with access to undelete would be 18 or over could be problematical, as I'd imagine that not everyone applying for either adminship or "admin-lite" would necessarily want to identify to the Foundations (or even the Arbs). And I don't find it hard to imagine the idea of quite a number of technically-underage people having far more nouse and all its variations than a huge percentage of technically not-underage people, either I've personally met any number of under-18's who have far more wit than a huge proportion of their over-18 counterparts, in real life. I've been lucky, I suppose, in having mixed with some extremely bright and sensible youngsters; some of them quite awesomely mature at levels which many adults never reach no matter how many calendar years they rack up. I'd like delete and undelete, personally, purely for dealing with blatant copyvios. At one point when I was new page patrolling, in every batch of five new pages I opened there was at least one absolutely blatant G12, no questions asked. I don't quite know why, but they just leap screaming off the screen at me. Sometimes it would take me half an hour or more to find the original, but my nose-for-copyvio was seldom wrong. And it was bloody annoying when people-who-should-know-better then just blanked out the 98% copyvio material on something I'd tagged, leaving three lines of total crap at the top, and the copyvio still sitting there in the history for all and sundry to see. I mean, for Heaven's sake! That's just pathetic! [Pesky goes off one one, obsessing about copyvio ...] Pesky   ( talk  …stalk!) 09:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Americans have greater fear of liability suits and criminal prosecution, while my British friends have greater fear of libel and defamation (along with prepositions and commas). Kiefer .Wolfowitz 12:07, 10 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think I have something in the region of 100+ G12's deleted-after-tagging in my CSD log. And then a load which were either wrongly not-deleted, just 99% blanked (I think that was all one admin .....), and some which got re-created as "clean" versions.  And that was just from about 3 months of npp.   And doesn't include the ones with copyvio sections which were dealt with ... waaaaay to much of it going on.  But CorenSeachBot was inactive while I was npp'ing, which probably made a difference.  Pesky  ( talk …stalk!) 08:52, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

I did it again ...
Here! This discussion really could do with having a mind like yours involved in it; I suspect you might have quite a number of fully-functional answers to add in to the brainstorming! You have a good brain; we need to pick it! (>**))> hugzies!  Pesky  ( talk …stalk!) 10:16, 12 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I said a few words, there, mainly to clarify my views.
 * Adopting principles of a guild system or total quality management---because such adoption would require reading or thinking or both---is impossible in a community in which administrators cite policy that they do not understand (e.g. WP: Point) without embarrassment or consequences.
 * The culture must change from being a culture to being a civilization. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 11:35, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * See this for one very possible reason why we have such an unusual amount of dysfunctionality in here! I like the idea of an ASDies' corner where we can learn to understand each other better; what we really, really need are policies which cannot be misunderstood, either because of differences in thought processing, or "creatively" to game the system.  Simplification of language to remove all ambiguities and the usual stumbling blocks, right across all the policy pages, would be a very good thing to do. ASDies can have truly impressive language skills in some areas, but the odd glitch where things get problematical.  And I'm so sure that a huge number of our WikiSpats and WikiTiffs are caused by simple crossed-wires that, if I actually had any money, I'd put it on it! Among all of us, we surely have the talent and dedication (and obsessive-compulsive tendencies, and tight-focus concentration abilities ....) to make this bi@tch work! It can be done.  Yes, it'll take a while. But it's not impossible.  And anyway, the word "impossible" is just asking for it, really ...  Pesky  (talk ) 21:19, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Many of our contributors are children, and teenagers should not reveal personal information about themselves. Particularly teenagers with neurological disorders may be opening themselves up to stressors and abuse if they label themselves as autistic or having Asperger's syndrome. I have long taken it for granted that most of our participants, like most academics, have some issues with obsessiveness. Kiefer .Wolfowitz 23:05, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. "Most of our participants have some issues." Full stop!  I think that so long as under-agers don't also disclose as being underage, the idea might still be ok.  And if we have a meeting-place area ("ASD-translator central?"), it could have many inhabitants from inside and outside the spectrum, with no requirement for disclosure on a personal level.  That could be voluntary - anyone not disclosing as "with issues" would simply be another unspecified-in-nature helper.  Pesky  (talk ) 12:10, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Ghost on the Canvas GA
Sure I'd love to get it to that status and I don't think it would be hard. Post to the talk there and say what you think needs to be done. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:31, 5 February 2012 (UTC)