User talk:Kieronoldham/Archive 6

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Daniel Bartlam
I'm sure you've heard of the case of Daniel Bartlam (born 1996), no? I was going to create an article on Daniel and his case, but I am wondering if it will be deleted due to the fact that he's not no Casey Anthony or Jodi Arias. What do you think?-- Dendro†Naja Talk to me!  03:44, 27 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi. Nice to hear from you again. :)

Noted your contributions to the Nilsen case re: the arguments and counterarguments as to their conclusions regarding Nilsen's disorders. As I am sure you know, I'm populating and expanding this article at the moment. Thanks for your integrity and contributions. I enjoyed our collaboration on the Dahmer article. Recall it being something like number 1,200 in ranked popularity on the English language Wikipedia? It is now ranked scarcely outside the top 500 in terms of popularity.

Yes I've heard about the Bartlam case. I actually recall reading about it in the newspapers 2 or 3 years ago at my work desk. If you do create the article I'd be happy to help in populating the article. (I do regret the Bustamante case being deleted before I could assist in populating the article as you requested.)

Hope it will not be deleted if you create the article. I am not in any position to determine articles considered for deletion (some unchallenged articles I have read are detailing cases more obscure than Bustamante or Bartlam in my own humble opinion), but, as I say, I will support you if you do create the article. Regards, --Kieronoldham (talk) 04:15, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

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Reversion of my 3 SEP 14 edit
It isn't important; I was just trying to clean the page up. "for he to kill her" is execrable grammar. Vkt183 (talk) 14:29, 4 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The structure was "adding that, towards the very end, Shirley Ledford was screaming for he and Norris to kill her". I suppose it depends upon the composition of the sentence whether it is execrable, as the segment reading for he and Norris to kill her clarifies a disgusting claim by Bittaker himself. Best regards.--Kieronoldham (talk) 23:57, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Bittaker
Don't quite understand your reverting of 'using' back to 'experimenting with'. I've been trying to discourage this euphemism that is obviously meant to sanitise illegal drug-taking. The sentence in its new form still indicates regular contact with the drug. Valetude (talk) 15:14, 28 September 2014 (UTC)

Dahmer's attacks on Capshaw
Capshaw, like many male survivors of military rape, only came forward recently because it is something that is extremely painful and humiliating to talk about, and society has only just begun to acknowledge that it is an issue. The fact that nobody in the Army ever suspected it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. The thing with successful sexual predators like Dahmer is that people around them have no idea that they are predators. They seem like normal people. Merely because his colleagues stated that he appeared normal in no way shape or form indicates that he was normal, as is clearly evidenced by his later killings. He preyed upon Capshaw because he was his roommate and Dahmer was his superior, and he was thus able to keep him isolated. Is it really so unbelievable that an admitted cannibal and rapist like Dahmer would abuse someone under his authority? I see no reason whatsoever for Capshaw to lie about something as humiliating as being a male rape survivor, and until I see definitive proof to the contrary, I am taking him at his word. Asarelah (talk) 22:20, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I never said it didn't happen, but I would very strongly question its authenticity given the multiple sources which hark otherwise as to his Army days. Aside from all I wrote on your page yesterday, I should add that Dahmer revealed all to police after his 1991 arrest including homicides and attempted abductions which, lets face it, would never have been solved or linked to him had he not confessed. He held nothing back and I think that, by the stretch of his associated actions, would make instances of rape in the Army a lesser action. In addition, he stated later that he was sexually inexperienced until the mid-1980s, when he discovered the bath houses. He was an amateur in addition to a virgin while in the Army. His first two murders (1978 and 1987) were spontaneous, somewhat clumsy episodes. I would say that the "collapse of struggle" following Tuomi's murder unleashed the dedviance in Dahmer. If you read about his Army life from people who knew him at the time and analyzed him afterwards (including defense psychiatric experts), none of them saw/heard him hark to even tentative sexual activity in the Army, let alone rape. He was a deteriorating drunkard who seldom left his bunk, was prone to lone walks, and who fueled his urges via masturbation. He was also traumatized by the 1st killing. Capshaw himself stated he was a pitiful drunk who would simply mock others when drunk but was screw up the punch lines more often than not due to his being inebriated. I'd say all these sources outweigh Capshaw's later claims of supposedly being raped. But, Wikipedia is for us all.--Kieronoldham (talk) 08:40, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Convictions in the infoboxes
Hey, I've noticed that the counts of convictions have been removed from the infoboxes of the serial killer pages which you frequent. If you did this, could you please explain why this has been done? - Hoops gza (talk) 21:50, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't believe this is myself who is responsible for this, Hoops Gza. You'll have to give me specific examples of cases (list 'em all if you like) and I'll look into replacing them.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:43, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Please take a look at The Last Victim for an excellent non-free photograph of Gacy in 1994. - Hoops gza (talk) 23:21, 4 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Aye the one with Jason Moss. That was taken in around March of 1994.--Kieronoldham (talk) 04:43, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

I thought that you may wish to incorporate it into Gacy's article. - Hoops gza (talk) 11:02, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The image or the visits from Moss? I've read that book and, to say the least, Moss has embellished/exaggerated his story. Apparently, at the very end of November, 1993, he began to write to Gacy - culminating in his being offered to visit him less than 4 months later. He claims that not only did Gacy successfully persuade Menard staff to leave him alone and unattended in a room far away from staff and cameras, where Gacy unsuccessfully attempted to rape him and stick a pen in his jugular, but also, later, an answering machine "accidentally" recorded a conversation between Moss and Gacy in which he (Moss) turned the blackmail threats onto Gacy after this visit. It is too incredulous to be credible, although I am sure there is a nugget or three of truth in the overall story.
 * I was referring to the image. Thanks for checking in on the other stuff as well. - Hoops gza (talk) 00:41, 9 October 2014 (UTC)
 * No worries. Someone added that image years ago, but it was removed. Also, if the image to text ratio (free or non-free) is greater than a certain balance of acceptability the article could be flagged. In my opinion it is best to leave it as it stands.

By the way, the sodomy conviction in the infobox is currently placed in the middle of Gacy's 1980 convictions. I was wondering if it would be better to list the sodomy above the other convictions, as the current structure may lead readers to believe he was convicted of sodomy in Cook County in 1980 as opposed to Iowa in 1968. What do you think?--Kieronoldham (talk) 08:05, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Fixed the infobox, sorry about that, a careless mistake that I should have seen on my own. - Hoops gza (talk) 18:24, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Regards.--Kieronoldham (talk) 06:57, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Also, if you can find the exact dates of Gacy's marriage and divorce with Marlynn Myers, that would make a great addition. - Hoops gza (talk) 20:35, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Just searched earnestly in the literature I have. All books simply state 'September of 1964' without giving the exact date for marriage. As for divorce, Marlynn filed for divorce on 12/3/1968; the divorce was finalized 9/18/69. I've added that information.--Kieronoldham (talk) 10:10, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

By the way, was Gacy convicted of sodomy? It is included as a category right now. - Hoops gza (talk) 21:42, 5 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes - he was convicted of sodomy in early December of 1968. It is included in the body text of the article.--Kieronoldham (talk) 10:10, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Translated article on Mexican serial killer
Hey, Kieron, I have translated this into English: Alejandro Máynez. Feel free to add to it if you wish. At the bottom of the page is some further reading which is in English which you may find very helpful. - Hoops gza (talk) 02:14, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Will do. This could become my next Wiki. project. I'll have to read up on the case (which I've only vaguely heard about) before making major edits. Do you speak Spanish? I am moderate (but not extremely fluent) en la lengua.--Kieronoldham (talk) 10:03, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

I am somewhere around a 2 or 3. With the help of a machine translation and my dictionary, I can translate most Spanish to English. The reason I have not translated more Spanish is because many of the articles are not well sourced. - Hoops gza (talk) 17:20, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * A joke, I surmise? - Hoops gza (talk) 04:49, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
 * What's a joke/chiste? :) Not gotten around to the Maynez article yest, Hoops Gza. Been working on the Fritz Haarmann page recently. Almost finished it. --Kieronoldham (talk) 09:19, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

One more thing about Gacy
From a quick search of his article, I deduced that John Wayne Gacy only once used a gun in his crimes. Isn't this a deviation from the normal pattern of serial killers, that is, to only use a firearm once? It would seem to me to be worthy of mention. - Hoops gza (talk) 00:55, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
 * He is known to have tormented at least one surviving victim (Donnelly) with a starter pistol, and to have threatened an employee of KFC with a game of Russian Roulette in the late '60s. He never used a gun to kill anyone, but did use a starter pistol to torment some victims (it's included in the Dec. 13, '78 police inventory). Gacy was scared of actual live firearms and buried a gun beneath the front or (I think) rear doorstep to his house. Regards,--Kieronoldham (talk) 08:59, 28 October 2014 (UTC)

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Height and weight
Among the parameters that we can include in criminal infoboxes are height and weight. You will see them in use on Richard Ramirez and Albert Fish. Would you happen to know these statistics for Gacy or Dahmer? - Hoops gza (talk) 15:59, 9 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Gacy was 5 feet, 8 inches and 225lbs; Dahmer was 6 feet tall. Don't know his weight. Regards, --Kieronoldham (talk) 09:23, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure about Dahmer? His mug shot clearly shows him to be a little taller. - Hoops gza (talk) 22:20, 12 December 2014 (UTC) Could you please answer this? - Hoops gza (talk) 23:26, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sure, HoopsGza. I did note the contrast in the infobox. image myself. All printed text I have harks to him being 6 feet and 1 centimeter tall. See his 1991 arrest photo for clarification. That 1982 mug shot makes him look about 2 inches taller, but his hair is somewhat bushy and maybe he was wearing shoes or boots with thick soles when it was taken? By the way, his weight was 180 lbs. Regards--Kieronoldham (talk) 10:47, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

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Capshaw's Claim
I am more inclined to trust Capshaw than I am to trust the word of a serial killer. I see no motive for Capshaw to lie, and believe he didn't come forward in the early 90s out of shame and stigma. If he were to make up lies about his experiences with Dahmer, I imagine he would come up a self-aggrandizing lie and not something as stigmatizing as being a male rape survivor. Either way, whether Capshaw's claims are true is irrelevant to the article itself. The article is worded neutrally and the reader can drawn their own conclusions. Asarelah (talk) 15:29, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I never meant just trusting 'the word of a serial killer'; I meant all the other factors I mentioned combined. Ultimately only 2 people know/knew the truth and one of them has been dead since 1994. You may be right; it is just all the other factors combined outweigh his sole word. Also they were 'in a room together'? Sources (and images taken) show Dahmer shared a room with several other soldiers at his barracks - at least 2 soldiers in the 1st year, then even more thereafter. One nugget is Capshaw's early 90s recollections of Dahmer trying to chase after people "like [a] wild nut" in his alcoholic stupors after he-and others his platoon-made fun of him as he drank on his bunk in full view of everyone. Intriguing, given his later recollections, but, as you say, the reader can determine his/her own conclusions. Best regards,--Kieronoldham (talk) 08:32, 20 November 2014 (UTC)