User talk:KimWinter83

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February 2023
Hello, I'm Materialscientist. I noticed that in this edit to Heavy metal music, you removed content without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry, the removed content has been restored. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. Materialscientist (talk) 11:01, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to blank out or remove portions of page content, templates, or other materials from Wikipedia without adequate explanation, as you did at Gynocentrism, you may be blocked from editing. — Czello 12:09, 6 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi czello
 * I edited the gynocentrism Page to remove bias towards the Men Going Their Own Way community, while anti-feminist the MGTOW are not misogynists and is media spin. Don't get me wrong there are sexist people within there community but no more then you will find within the online feminist communities. KimWinter83 (talk) 12:36, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand your reasoning, but we go with what the citations say - the phrase "misogynist" is sourced, so we include it. We don't make our own interpretations of subjects, as that is original research. — Czello 12:37, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply, the problem is the sources are filled with bias and are incorrect. Its like adding a source on the page about atheism that has certain religious bias that describes "Atheism is noted for there sin and there immorality.
 * If I'm not allowed to edit this what can I do? Am I allowed to add a counter claim that is sourced so to even out the bias? KimWinter83 (talk) 13:00, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * If you believe the sources are not acceptable to use you should open a thread at WP:RSN. If the community decides there that the sources aren't acceptable the statement could be removed. However, I can tell you that you're unlikely to get the Telegraph removed as it's a well-respected source. — Czello 13:03, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the politeful debate not everyone will do that.
 * The problem is that the General consensus is wrong not only are people mixing up MGTOW with Incels but they are mixing up sexism with misogyny. Like you said I could open a thread but nothing would come from it. Unfortunately Wikipedia is full of bias and is one-sided and I'm trying to balance it out but this community doesn't understand and and will not except any other side.
 * Write now I've been trying to correct misinformation about Mary Wollstonecraft beeing called a feminist but it keeps getting changed. How can someone who lived and died before feminism be labeled as a feminist, now you could call her a proto-feminist which is better but that still shows bias, it's like calling Jews Proto-Christians, its wrong.
 * My point is right now there is a problem in the western world that is increasingly negative if not anti men and while I support the rights of women I also support the rights of men and how women and men are viewed and treated and how our society refuses to see men as victims. Just look how the media shows men. Why is it that in western society there are too many dubble standards. Men can't have there only men space but women can (in reality no one should). Women can be sexist and misandrist but men can't (in reality no one should). Our society right now has this General consensus that women/girl good, Men/boys bad and it's absolutely toxic and don't get me started on "toxic masculinity".
 * Since Wikipedia is often quoted if not used as a source outside this site it's important to show equal and none bias information whether or not "generally excepted" or not. Even tho what can be generally excepted can still be wrong if the people who except it have a bias.
 * One last thing. With the Heavy metal page it's extremely unfair to show that certain people think that metal has a "misogyny" problem but yet no mention on the Pop music page of any sexism or misandry in pop music. I could write and source it but would it be allowed?
 * Why can't we have info on topics without the beliefs and politics and keep things A-Political.
 * If you have read all of this thank you and sorry for the rant I'm abit highly stung right now and I apologise. I'm going to take a break from editing and figure out better ways to go about it. I just hope that this site balances out and shows both sides better. KimWinter83 (talk) 14:31, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Just one final thing before calling it a day, I'm not going to change anything but if you could give me some advice so I could better understand it would be appreciated.
 * So on the page "Gynocentrism" under the heading "In contemporary society" it's wrote:
 * "The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) community, noted for their anti-feminism and misogyny", describes themselves as a backlash against the "misandry of gynocentrism"
 * Why has someone wrote "noted for their anti-feminism and misogyny" doesn't this show bias, what if someone who reads that then go on to believe that the MGTOW or even MRAs are misogynists.
 * Wouldn't it be better to just write:
 * "The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) community, describes themselves as a backlash against the "misandry of gynocentrism".
 * Doesn't this look like a lot less biased? KimWinter83 (talk) 15:05, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think ultimately it this might come down to a misunderstanding about how Wikipedia works - everything we decide must come from sources, rather than our own views on the matter. Our policy is verifiability, not truth - that is, readers must be able to click on a reliable source and verify what they're reading, rather than us deciding what is or isn't true. On the heavy metal article - I do believe, personally, there is too much emphasis on the sexism within the article, and that it's undue weight (that is, we're spending a disproportionate amount of space on something relatively minor within heavy metal). I even tried to get it removed last year, but the community decided against it, which is why I restored the deleted content (even though I personally don't agree with it). But again, Wikipedia is dependent on community consensus for what should be included in an article. For that reason, I suggest that if your edits are disputed on any articles, you discuss it further on the article's talk page. Forcibly/repeatedly removing it is likely to get you blocked, but discussing the issue on talk might gain progress. — Czello 15:53, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you very much Czello you have been very kind and helpful and I appreciated it. KimWinter83 (talk) 16:45, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * So on the page "Gynocentrism" under the heading "In contemporary society" it's wrote:
 * "The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) community, noted for their anti-feminism and misogyny", describes themselves as a backlash against the "misandry of gynocentrism"
 * Why has someone wrote "noted for their anti-feminism and misogyny" doesn't this show bias, what if someone who reads that then go on to believe that the MGTOW or even MRAs are misogynists.
 * Wouldn't it be better to just write:
 * "The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) community, describes themselves as a backlash against the "misandry of gynocentrism".
 * Doesn't this look like a lot less biased? KimWinter83 (talk) 15:05, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think ultimately it this might come down to a misunderstanding about how Wikipedia works - everything we decide must come from sources, rather than our own views on the matter. Our policy is verifiability, not truth - that is, readers must be able to click on a reliable source and verify what they're reading, rather than us deciding what is or isn't true. On the heavy metal article - I do believe, personally, there is too much emphasis on the sexism within the article, and that it's undue weight (that is, we're spending a disproportionate amount of space on something relatively minor within heavy metal). I even tried to get it removed last year, but the community decided against it, which is why I restored the deleted content (even though I personally don't agree with it). But again, Wikipedia is dependent on community consensus for what should be included in an article. For that reason, I suggest that if your edits are disputed on any articles, you discuss it further on the article's talk page. Forcibly/repeatedly removing it is likely to get you blocked, but discussing the issue on talk might gain progress. — Czello 15:53, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you very much Czello you have been very kind and helpful and I appreciated it. KimWinter83 (talk) 16:45, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * "The Men Going Their Own Way (MGTOW) community, describes themselves as a backlash against the "misandry of gynocentrism".
 * Doesn't this look like a lot less biased? KimWinter83 (talk) 15:05, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I think ultimately it this might come down to a misunderstanding about how Wikipedia works - everything we decide must come from sources, rather than our own views on the matter. Our policy is verifiability, not truth - that is, readers must be able to click on a reliable source and verify what they're reading, rather than us deciding what is or isn't true. On the heavy metal article - I do believe, personally, there is too much emphasis on the sexism within the article, and that it's undue weight (that is, we're spending a disproportionate amount of space on something relatively minor within heavy metal). I even tried to get it removed last year, but the community decided against it, which is why I restored the deleted content (even though I personally don't agree with it). But again, Wikipedia is dependent on community consensus for what should be included in an article. For that reason, I suggest that if your edits are disputed on any articles, you discuss it further on the article's talk page. Forcibly/repeatedly removing it is likely to get you blocked, but discussing the issue on talk might gain progress. — Czello 15:53, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you very much Czello you have been very kind and helpful and I appreciated it. KimWinter83 (talk) 16:45, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * thank you very much Czello you have been very kind and helpful and I appreciated it. KimWinter83 (talk) 16:45, 6 February 2023 (UTC)