User talk:Kim Bruning/Replace RFA (Take II)

From skype chat
[20:20:13] Durova: You know how I approach new processes [20:20:17] … I shoot holes into them [20:20:20] Kim Bruning: not exactly, go on? [20:20:23] … and that's wise of you [20:20:30] Durova: and when the person fixes those and comes back [20:20:33] … I shoot more holes [20:20:37] Kim Bruning: the way I approach new processes is to figure something with the most power :-) [20:20:39] … so cool [20:20:39] Durova: wash, rinse, repeat [20:20:43] Kim Bruning: I need you to keep shooting [20:20:46] … ;-) [20:20:49] … if you will [20:20:51] Durova: If they get to the point that I can't shoot any more holes [20:20:54] … I propose it. [20:21:02] Kim Bruning: sounds ok [20:21:10] … so which holes do I still need to figure? [20:21:10] Durova: I assume the worst faith possible in as many permutations as possible [20:21:24] … First, people will ask why you tie this to RFA. [20:21:31] … Mentorship is great. [20:21:40] … Let's see we have enough people to do it. [20:21:46] … Set up your system absent RFA [20:21:59] … and once it runs well, propose it as a replacement for RFA. [20:22:04] Kim Bruning: Do we/me shoots holes in your proposal [20:22:09] … What's the carrot? [20:22:19] * Kim Bruning shoots holes in your proposal [20:22:19] Kim Bruning: rather [20:22:19] Durova: okay [20:22:24] … put it this way [20:22:36] … you're proposing an elaborate untested system to replace RFA [20:22:39] Kim Bruning: I will NEVER propose any system btw [20:22:42] Durova: people will say "what if that doesn't work?" [20:22:43] Kim Bruning: I either run it or not [20:22:50] … proposing things is absoluytely deprecated [20:22:50] Durova: and you don't actually know that it would. [20:22:56] … If you build it, they will come. [20:23:04] Kim Bruning: well, what do you mean with "what if it doesn't work?" [20:23:17] Durova: You will be better off proposing a tested system (the mentorship system) [20:23:21] … so get it running [20:23:24] Kim Bruning: well [20:23:28] Durova: and if it really removes the need for rfa [20:23:38] Kim Bruning: no. [20:23:40] Durova: then people who go through it would do better there, right? [20:23:48] Kim Bruning: there's a wikipolitical aspect here [20:23:55] … I'd get some really really old hands to start mentoring [20:24:10] … and we'd give preferential treatment to existing admins [20:24:16] … the short of it is that I do not trust current admins [20:24:20] … and I do not trust RFA [20:24:53] Durova: Okay, here's another bullet: [20:24:56] Kim Bruning: this is not "if it really removes the need for RFA" [20:25:00] Durova: suppose you threw that party and nobody came? [20:25:06] … Get more mentorships operational [20:25:08] Kim Bruning: this is "RFA must die. I need to replace it" [20:25:15] Durova: you've got tables that assume staff. [20:25:27] … generate volunteers and begin to fill those tables. [20:25:32] … also bear in mind [20:25:34] Kim Bruning: or rather "I need something to make acculturation work, I don't give a flying **** what needs to die to get it to work, the ends justify the means" [20:25:34] … :-P [20:25:49] Durova: how many new editors really want Mommy looking over their shoulders? [20:26:01] Kim Bruning: Durova: Seriously? Probably 0.0 [20:26:05] Durova: and how much attention would someone really receive before this RFA-less adminship. [20:26:05] … right [20:26:13] … Okay, that's enough bullets for now. :) [20:26:15] … gl [20:26:31] Kim Bruning: someone would get 1 month mentorship, because that's the requirement [20:26:55] … so if you want to get this covetted flag, you must let mommy look over your shoulder for a month [20:26:54] Durova: grrr [20:26:58] Kim Bruning: that's the carrot [20:26:59] Durova: okay one more bullet [20:27:12] … very few of the people I coach for adminship are ready in as little as 1 month [20:27:25] Kim Bruning: that's the 3rd table [20:27:25] Durova: in fact, when it's that short they were basically ready anyway and I've barely coached. [20:27:45] … and I selectively mentor the best editors I can find. [20:27:52] Kim Bruning: assuming it takes as much as 4 months on average (wow, that's long, for mentoring).... [20:27:53] Durova: so tables aside [20:27:58] Kim Bruning: ... it'd take 2.6 years [20:28:10] Durova: okay last bullet [20:28:19] Kim Bruning: but your candidate would fail to pass the checking of your peers [20:28:20] Durova: Do you agree that not everyone is suitable for adminship? [20:28:34] Kim Bruning: I strongly disagree [20:28:38] Durova: because most people can name editors who'd be better off without the tools [20:28:47] … okay, there's an ideological issue you'll need to address. [20:28:54] Kim Bruning: I think adminship is trainabvle [20:28:57] … trainable [20:29:02] … I can point out people who don't need the tools too [20:29:08] … I pick the WORST possible people [20:29:07] Durova: I absolutely think it's trainable. [20:29:11] Kim Bruning: and mentor those ;-) [20:29:14] Durova: well [20:29:31] … bear in mind how you'll respond to people who think of a Dzonatas having the tools [20:29:36] Kim Bruning: btw, to be really harsh, I think you would not be permitted to mentor at first [20:29:39] Durova: and what the place would be like then. [20:29:46] Kim Bruning: otoh, I'd prolly get mentorship myself too [20:30:25] … I'm not sure I'd actually strip admin flags, but current admins do NOT automatically become listed as full-access wikipedians [20:30:45] … and if your mentor gives up on you, well, too bad. (you can always find another mentor, but good luck) [20:30:52] … ... [20:30:57] … may I post this exchange on the talk page? [20:31:46] Durova: the whole thing? [20:32:01] … Well, I guess I haven't kicked any puppy dogs in this conversation. ;) [20:32:05] … okay [20:33:07] Kim Bruning: I've kicked some dogs though [20:33:08] … :-P

--Kim Bruning (talk) 18:34, 5 July 2008 (UTC)