User talk:Kirbytime/munafiqun

Jayjg's comments
I'd like to draw this to your attention:  CJCurrie 04:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Also this.

Does this strike you as an NPA violation? CJCurrie 04:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Kirby, I just moments ago posted an apology to you on the talk page for Allegations [sic] of Israeli Apartheid.  I may have given (if only implicitly) too much credence to Jay's characterization of your views, even though he's quite prone to misrepresentations of editors he disagrees with.


 * In reponse to your question on my talk page, Jay has a policy of deleting anything negative from his talk page, pointing offending editors to his "big yellow box." "Negative" for him, as you know, includes any challenge on content, conduct, or even procedural grounds. If I'm not mistaken, however, he is allowed to do this, as editors get to make the rules on their own talk pages.


 * Regarding CJ's question, yes those edits are a violation of NPA.--G-Dett 15:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * When an editor insists that the Holocaust is merely an "allegation" or a "political epithet", and I merely note that, do you really think that could in any way possibly amount to a violation of WP:NPA? Please quote the section you think applies, if you do. Jayjg (talk) 15:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've already explained this many times. Your insistence of using your own interpretation of my own words is very bad faith, and I am shocked that you, an administrator, would do such a thing. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  16:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I didn't use any "interpretation" of your words, I merely quoted them. Why does quoting you "shock" you? Jayjg (talk) 16:29, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Greetings. I'm an admin on the English Wikipedia, and I noticed this edit. I'm glad you chose to seek outside help instead of getting into an editwar; those are never good. If you need any assistance, just let me know. – Quadell (talk) (random) 15:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

(From Quadell's talk page):


 * In case you need more context, please note these two edits. In the first, Kirbytime states that the Holocaust is alleged to have happened and in the second he states that "The Holocaust" is a political epithet. Those are his words. Jayjg (talk) 16:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't be ridiculous. Anyone who reads that will clearly see I was saying those things merely for effect. And that was my intention. And besides, this does not excuse YOUR personal attack. If you seriously think that I have violated WP policy by saying those things, bring it up as an issue somewhere else. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  16:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think it was clear you were saying that for effect. How is quoting you a "personal attack"? Jayjg (talk) 16:28, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

You did not merely "quote" me. You quoted me, and associated me with something negative, and threatened other users by saying that their viewpoints are shared by me. This is a very strong example of Guilt by association, which is definitely a personal attack. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  16:33, 16 March 2007 (UTC) Also, it's not just me, there are several other users who consider your comments a personal attack. Just read this place. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  16:37, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I "associated you with something negative"? What "negative" thing did I associate you with (aside from saying the Holocaust was "alleged" and a "political epithet"), and how did I do so? And how did I "threaten" anyone else? And exactly who am I supposed to have been attacking? You? Other people? Which part of WP:NPA did I actually violate by quoting you? Can you specifically state the section? This is getting more and more bizarre. Jayjg (talk) 16:38, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

So could you please explain for ALL of us, what exactly you mean by "These are your allies, G-Dett"? There is absolutely no reason for me not to understand that as demeaning me. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  16:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I have noticed you have said "No, it's pointing out that when people with rather offensive views argue in favor of your political positions, then it's wise to review those positions to understand why they appeal so much to people with such offensive views." WHAT offensive views are you even talking about? You're just making shit things up. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  16:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I have responded on my talk page. – Quadell (talk) (random) 16:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi all. I will repeat here what I noted about Kirbytime on user Jayjg's page. Kirbytime has made personal attacks on me and other users before. He asked me to "GTFO" here which means "Get the Fuck out", as I discovered from the Internet. Also, he said to Noogster "you dont own the fucking template", while leaving a heading of WP:DICK in the Title of his message. So we can see this is his normal way of talking to people. If he is abusive and uncivil again, I hope he will be blocked for some time. I think he will fix his behavior now that I have highlighted his abuses, but he may return to his old self later. Just to let you know that I have experienced the same kind of hostility as others did while dealing with him. This is definitely an abusive and intimidating user just waiting for a block if he does not clean up his act. Infact, Kirbytime should receive a temporary blocking for making these two abusive attempts; one on me and another on user Noogster (who was kind enough to forgive Kirbytime). Abusive users should be dealt with an iron hand. --Matt57 17:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Matt, just because I said "gtfo" doesn't mean anything. It was in jest, as was evidenced by the "my internets" which proceeded it. (it's not get the fuck out, it's get the fuck off, gtfo my internets")Also, noogster has a history of being abusive, and he's been blocked before. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  ♥  ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  09:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Kirby time, people are banned here for abusing "in jest". I see you getting blocked in a couple of weeks, if not months, mark my words. I have asked another user for help on the German message you left me on my talk page. I dont understand German so I asked for help. I'm suspecting it will be something in bad faith. --Matt57 01:15, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

That's a quote from Someone who hates Jesus. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  ♥  ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  15:25, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What was the context? I'm an athiest. --Matt57 15:34, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You hate Jesus too? Good. I created the Criticism of Jesus article (I think about a year ago or so), do you mind helping me on it? Oh, and, here's a translation of what I quoted:

[http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful! They are people of bad race and lineage; out of their countenances peer the hangman and the sleuth-hound. Distrust all those who talk much of their justice! Verily, in their souls not only honey is lacking. And when they call themselves 'the good and just,' forget not, that for them to be Pharisees, nothing is lacking but- power!]-- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  ♥  ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  16:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thats a nice quotation, however how about Judge Judy? Would you say she falls under that label? It depends on the situation on who is being punished for what and what exactly is the 'punishment'. Anyway, very interesting quote, thanks for bringing that out.--Matt57 19:25, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Judge Judy? lol. She doesn't punish anyone. Judges do not punish. Judges interpret the law. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  ♥  ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  03:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Disgusting Comments
I saw this guy complaining that Jayjg has misrepresented his comments on the holocaust. He did this so aggressively that I assumed that there must be some truth to this allegation. So here is the context:

Kirbytime: "Currently on Wikipedia, there are some articles with that word in their article name." He then provides a list of such articles. "But, there are also articles like this:" He then lists Islam and antisemitism, Christianity and antisemitism, Islamofascism and Holocaust as articles which are not alleged. How unfair. He adds "What is the current status of these articles? I don't think it makes sense for some articles to have "allegations" in the title, while others don't. I think either they all should, or they all shouldn't."

He is then asked: How does Holocaust fit into your list?

He replies removing any doubt: "It fits because the Holocaust is alleged to have happened."

Jayjg argues that "The Holocaust was a terrible historical event. "Israeli apartheid" is a political epithet." - Kirbytime says that this is silly and offensive replying: "The Israeli apartheid is a terrible historical event. "The Holocaust" is a political epithet."

I am amazed that Jay even bothers responding to a holocaust denier and general troll like Kirbytime. It really is awful to have to deal with the human filth (note the strong violation of WP:NPA that I reserve for holocaust deniers) that is attracted to editing articles on Israel and Jews, I am very glad to see that this one is on wikibreak and think his account should be blocked indefinitely for repeated racial abuse. David Spart 22:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I would support the block of this abusive troll Kirbytime. He has abused me by saying "GTFO" (which means Get the fuck out) and abused another user Noogster by telling him "you dont own the fucking template".--Matt57 23:18, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I am very glad to hear that, and very sad to see long-time editor User:CJCurrie is defending him so blindly (I hope blindly.) David Spart 23:34, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, yes thats very sad. The intentions of this troll are clear in his remarks and edits. I also notified CJCurrie of his abuse separately but it seems it was of no importance to them. Hopefully someone will see whats going on and take action. Do you know where exactly he said "It fits because the Holocaust is alleged to have happened."? thanks. --Matt57 00:05, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * He said it here . David Spart 01:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

If you think I'm a Holocaust denier, then you obviously aren't old enough to be editing on Wikipedia, or you failed English 101. Also, I have said this:

"I was not speaking for myself when I said the Holocaust is "alleged". I was speaking for the revionists and other nutjobs (the same kind of nutjobs that deny the existence of an Israeli apartheid)."here

Look at the timestamp of when I said that. Now go away you trolls, stop accusing me of antisemitism (I've beaten up holocaust deniers in real life before), and leave me alone while I take a wikibreak so I don't have wikistalkers. Also david, you're a disgrace to all the great things (and those are few in number indeed) you have on your userpage. Cheers. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  ♥  ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  03:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It's very strange how you advocate so vociferously for "nutjobs." Arrow740 03:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Kirby, I don't buy it. Your comments before were clear, your sympathies obvious.  You are now just back-tracking as damage-limitation. "Some of my worst enemies are Jew-haters"  is a charming inversion of "some of my best friends are Jewish". And all the while you are pushing the POV of the "nutjobs" you claim to so hate. David Spart 08:18, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * And you really think that comparing those who are "Israeli Appartheit Deniers" to Holocaust Deniers is not a shocking personal attack on most of the user on wikipedia - you probably don't since Holocaust Denial is OK with you. David Spart 08:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Kirby, you dont tell the truth consistently. Earlier you claimed to be a former Muslim while you still had that heart logo for Islam in your signature. Further, you showed NO evidence of you being a former Muslim e.g. edits and other writeups on your blog. It was clear you were not telling the truth and you are now not tellin the truth again when you say you only meant to "quote" the nutjobs who like Arrow said, you defend so vociferously. Why are you even defending what those nutjobs say? They could be saying anything like "America should be bombed". Are you going to suggest a new article with that Title and later say "I wasnt speaking for myself". You are supposed to be speaking for YOURSELF only here on Wikipedia. Let the nutjob create an account here and speak for himself and we'll deal with him. Meanwhile please stop being his advocate. Seeing you are not willing to apologize for your abuses and stuff, I will now file a report for abuse for you and ofcourse you will now behave better here on Wikipedia. --Matt57 12:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, Kirbytime moved the comments to a subdirectory called Munafiqun, which means "Munāfiq (n., in Arabic: منافق, plural munāfiqūn) is an Islamic Arabic term used to describe a religious hypocrite, who outwardly practices Islam, while inwardly concealing his disbelief (kufr), perhaps even unknowingly." He has called us hypocrites. -- Kirby, you know you are creating more problems for yourself. I will report all these activities. --Matt57 12:29, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Matt57, this is beginning to look a bit like harassment. You've offered your take on Kirbytime's comments in the village pump discussion, and that is enough.  The rest of this is quite gratuitous.  Whether Kirbytime is a former or current or future Muslim is not your business, and the way you keep pressing him on it is unsettling.  Many tempers have been flared here, but give it a rest.--G-Dett 18:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * G-Dett, can you please mind your own business? Who is harrasing who? He has said to me "GTFO" before, which means "Get the fuck out". I would like to file an abuse complaint and get him a warning. Any advice? Also why is he moving the talk content here for an active discussion? I dont think we're allow to remove talk content for an active discussion or even move it.--Matt57 20:53, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

You tell G-Dett to mind her own business...? She is part of the issue, since Jayjg associated her with me in order to smear both of us. Why don't you mind your own business? Have you ever edited the Israeli apartheid article? Does this pertain to you in any way? Also, I can do whatever I want with my talk page. I learned that from Jayjg, who removed my warnings on his talk page. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  ♥  ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  21:47, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

More anti-semitism
Did you really say this Kirbytime? "nice to know that you believe in a mockery of an absurdity. Judaism itself is already bad enough with the invisible man in the sky." David Spart 11:34, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

As an atheist, I am entirely against Judaism, Islam, and other forms of self-delusion. It is not antisemitism to criticize irrationality. By the way, that was directed at a messianic, not a Jew.-- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  ♥  ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  11:35, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, so you said that too. You have also moved the discussion of your comments to a sub-page which you have named after a Sura (meaning "the hypocrites") which begins: "When the hypocrites come unto thee (O Muhammad), they say: We bear witness that thou art indeed Allah's messenger. And Allah knoweth that thou art indeed His messenger, and Allah beareth witness that the hypocrites indeed are speaking falsely. They make their faith a pretext so that they may turn (men) from the way of Allah. Verily evil is that which they are wont to do." I suppose you think that is very apt. David Spart 11:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

The word hypocrite in Arabic existed before the Qur'an was revealed. -- Ķĩřβȳ ♥  ♥  ♥  Ťįɱé  Ø  20:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)