User talk:Kirk clendinning

Welcome!
Hello, Kirk clendinning, and welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Unfortunately, one or more of the pages you created, such as Sangervasio Vineyards, may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines, and may not be retained.

There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Teahouse, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type help me on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Eric talk 00:14, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
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Speedy deletion nomination of Sangervasio Vineyards


A tag has been placed on Sangervasio Vineyards, requesting that it be deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under two or more of the criteria for speedy deletion, by which pages can be deleted at any time, without discussion. If the page meets any of these strictly-defined criteria, then it may soon be deleted by an administrator. The reasons it has been tagged are:
 * It seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. (See section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Business for more information.
 * It appears to be about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), individual animal, or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. (See section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Eric talk 00:14, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

There are scores of wineries listed on wikipedia.
Please do a search for napa valley wineries. This article was based on those. It is not finished, but just started, so don't judge so harshly on something that has not been finished.

That said, perhaps Eric should go through all of the other winery articles to make sure they do not violate standards since that was the foundation of this article's format.

April 2018
Hello, Kirk clendinning. Thank you for helping to build Wikipedia-- the world's largest free content encyclopedia. I'm sorry, but Sangervasio Vineyards has been deleted as meeting WP:CSD. "This applies to pages that are exclusively promotional and would need to be fundamentally rewritten to conform with NOTFORPROMOTION." These must be rewritten from scratch from "reliable, third party sources unconnected to the subject." See WP:RS.

Advertising and using Wikipedia as a "soapbox" are against Wikipedia policy and not permitted. Users who do so may be blocked from editing. Promotional content is vigorously deleted. Identifying blatant advertising contains information about content to avoid. For more information on content that may be perceived as promotional, click User:Dlohcierekim/promo. Sometimes pages meeting WP:CSD give the appearance of an editor violating Conflict of interest or WP:PAID. Please read and heed them if they apply to you.

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia-- subjects must meet notability guidelines with reliable sources providing verifiable information. '''That generally means someone unconnected with the subject needs to have written a great deal about the subject. ''' Please see Wikipedia:Citing sources. Template:cite has templates you can use in citing your sources. Place the template at the bottom of the page, and references cited in the text will appear there. YOU CAN ASK FOR HELP AT THE TEAHOUSE

Any deficiencies should be remedied before reposting as they can lead to repeated deletions. Wikipedia is not a webhost. You may wish to consider alternative outlets.

If you want to try again, please use the Article Wizard or articles for creation to guide you through the creation process. The new user tutorial can help you avoid future problems.

You may find this tool useful: Google custom search Don't feel discouraged. My first attempts at creating articles were deleted too.

Wikipedia has many articles in need of improvement. Perhaps you can help.
 * Category:All articles needing copy edit
 * Category:Articles lacking sources
 * Category:Articles lacking in-text citations


 * There is more information at Community portal Cheers, and happy editing. --Dloh cier ekim  (talk) 01:00, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Sangervasio winery


A tag has been placed on Sangervasio winery, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, group, product, service, person, or point of view and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the. —C.Fred (talk) 01:18, 20 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Hey! Thanks for recreating this under a new name! I'd forgotten just how spammy it was the first time! Cheers, --Dloh cier ekim  (talk) 01:23, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

That wasn't on purpose... it was a typo.

If you are a paid editor, you are required to declare it
Your edits give the impression you have a financial stake in promoting a topic, such as the edit you made to Sangervasio winery, but you have not complied with Wikipedia's mandatory paid editing disclosure requirements. You were asked to cease editing until you responded by either stating that you are not being directly or indirectly compensated for your edits, or by complying with the mandatory requirements under the Wikimedia Terms of Use that you disclose your employer, client and affiliation. Again, you can post such a disclosure on your user page at User:Kirk clendinning, and the template Paid can be used for this purpose – e.g. in the form:. Please respond before making any other edits to Wikipedia.

''Not only did this text only loosely paraphrase text from the winery's website, but you have uploaded images that look to be copied from the site. The two logical conclusions are either that you are being paid by the winery to create a page for them or that you are blatantly taking their material, passing it off as your own, and putting it on Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons. Please advise which of these conclusions is correct.'' —C.Fred (talk) 01:31, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Sangervasio Winery


A tag has been placed on Sangervasio Winery, requesting that it be deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under two or more of the criteria for speedy deletion, by which pages can be deleted at any time, without discussion. If the page meets any of these strictly-defined criteria, then it may soon be deleted by an administrator. The reasons it has been tagged are:
 * It seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. (See section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Business for more information.
 * It appears to be a clear copyright infringement of http://www.sangervasio.com/lang1/vineyards.html. (See section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. If the external website belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the external website but have permission from that owner, see Requesting copyright permission. However, even if you use one of these processes to release copyrighted material to Wikipedia, it still needs to comply with the other policies and guidelines to be eligible for inclusion. If you would like any assistance with this, you can ask a question at the help desk.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. —C.Fred (talk) 01:32, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * There is no copyright violation that text is used in many places describing the winery.


 * One of those places is the winery's website, where copyright is claimed over the text. As a result, Wikipedia cannot use the text. —C.Fred (talk) 01:56, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. It felt copyvio to me, but I did not locate the source.--Dloh cier ekim  (talk) 02:36, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

It is a description of the winery that is used in newspapers, the winery website, other websites, without citations. I've not seen a copyright on that website and know that the winery encourages use of those descriptions within the context of their vineyard.


 * Wikipedia errs on the side of caution with copyright. When there is no copyright notice on a website, the assumption is that it is under an all-rights-reserved license. The web page would have to clearly say that it is in the public domain or under a Creative Commons free license before we could use it on Wikipedia—and even then, it would need severely edited for tone. —C.Fred (talk) 02:45, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Understandable. I assumed since the phrasing was so common, it was essentially public domain.

April 2018
This is your only warning; if you use Wikipedia for soapboxing, promotion or advertising again, you may be blocked from editing without further notice.  Acroterion   (talk)   01:44, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * There is no soap boxing going on here. Just indignation at your arrogance. Instead of removing an article encourage changes. It is not useful to constantly recreate the same page. Surely your first article was not perfect.


 * No. But I would not have ignored it if multiple experienced editors told me that there were such severe problems with the article that it had to be deleted on sight, and that my editing privileges would be revoked if I kept making such gross violations of the rules. —C.Fred (talk) 01:59, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Read, study and fully understand every provision of Your first article, and be sure that your next attempt is fully compliant. There is no way that the same type of article will be accepted. Time for you to do things right if you want to edit here. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  02:03, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * let's take a look at Childress winery. I didn't have time to cite everything because I was still forming the article when it was removed, but there are plenty of newspaper clippings and similar publications to justify a statement about tours and local restaurants as to what was done in this article. What amazes me is the bravado with which editors say 'no way' would the same type of article be accepted, yet in just a few minutes I can find a similar example to what prompted me to write the article as I did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childress_Vineyards Childress also holds special events including weddings and corporate functions, as well as free entertainment during the spring and fall.[1][7]


 * One needs more than 10 minutes to correct something. Rather than simply asking for a quick removal then deleting a page, perhaps constructive examples would have been useful. I had read the articles on how to do a first post, then took time to read other articles about vineyards. When I thought I was being unbiased, maybe my words were to 'emotional' rather than purely descriptive. Given time I would have corrected them. However rather than a warning you used an baseball bat where a fly swatter would have sufficed. Where I take exception, is to the behavior of you and the other 'experienced' editors. You treated this like a social media platform. This is not FaceBook. Your comments were not unbiased, they were arrogant. You didn't help, you made fun of, you belittled and put yourselves in position of ultimate authority. That is not the intent of Wikipedia.

− 		 − 	I will be glad to modify the article, but stop deleting it and give me time to modify it.
 * Yeah no. Please see my reply on my talk page. Please follow instructions. Please write one non-spammy sentence at a time, using reliable sources to cite each sentence. It would be best, once again, to use the WP:article wizard to help you.--Dloh cier ekim  (talk) 02:16, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Also, you still need to address the issue of whether you have a conflict of interest with the winery. —C.Fred (talk) 02:19, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

I stayed there, enjoyed it and kept in touch with them over the years. While researching Cabernet Franc and its relationship to Cabernet Sauvignon, I thought I'd look them up while I was on Wikipedia, since I'd found other wineries, but they weren't in Wikipedia. So I thought I'd put them in just like other wineries I read about.

Someday, I hope to have a conflict of interest because their wine is not readily available in the USA. I'd like to get it imported.

That said, I simply need to tone down my descriptions so they don't appear biased. That's the way I always write. What I think was inexcusable was the glee with which the editors sanctimoniously slaughtered my page, then arrogantly belittled me. That was uncalled for. In addition they removed pictures I put up that were justified where they were added simply out of spite. I shall file a grievance over the handling of this situation.


 * OK, thanks for clarifying. And no, I didn't remove the images out of "spite," they were part of the pattern of promotional language and copyright violations that we were dealing with - and if you don't have a COI, then those pictures were taken from the Internet and are themselves copyright violations.  Acroterion   (talk)   02:37, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I can't violate my own copyright. Those were pictures I took. That's how this whole thing got started. I had pictures of their wine bottles. I was looking up articles on Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc, because the latter is one of the parents of the former. The picture on Cabernet Sauvignon was blend. I put in a bottle that was 100% Cabernet Sauvignon. Then I thought why not Cabernet Franc as well. Then I started the article because I noticed the winery on the bottle had no page whereas others did... and so on.

File:Sangervasio_Chianti.png is quite nice and I must say, a very professional image.--Dloh cier ekim  (talk) 02:42, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Like shooting still life. Like I said previously, maybe some day I will have a conflict of interest with this winery. That would be nice. But until then, I would like to write an article that everyone stops removing. Is there a way to save it on my account so that I can work on it without getting it erased every 10 minutes? If so, that might have been a nice suggestion to hear from the experienced editors.
 * If the article were deleted because you failed to assert that the winery is significant or important, then we could do that. However, because of the copyright infringement, we cannot. —C.Fred (talk) 02:51, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I'll accept the copyright issue. That could have been corrected by removing the offending text with a comment rather than the whole page. As for the importance of the winery, I'll have to say that there are too many unimportant wineries on wikipedia to haphazardly enforce that on the page I wrote. Sangervasio bottles upwards to 100000 bottles a year of their and neighboring vineyards wines. I hardly think that I should be singled out when the following passed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebel_Coast_Winery


 * Please remember that we deal with advertising and copyright violations constantly, and the only way they are kept within bounds is by deleting the suspect content and starting over - our terms of use do not allow the copyrighted content to persist in the history. By the way, a quick look around for similar pictures on the Internet picks up nothing that I can find. We tend to treat product images against a white drape with some concern, particularly when the file has no associated metadata. It almost always indicates that it came from somewhere on the Internet.  Acroterion   (talk)   03:02, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * Okay. I'll give you that. Perhaps I should have put meta data on it. It was a spontaneous decision. I didn't go to Wiki at that point to put up an image. However, I thought that by registering them images at Wiki Commons and signing the copyright notice all was okay. As for the copyright statement, the article was immediately deleted because of certain language, not a copyright warning. That came later when I was dealing with no less than three editors rather than one.


 * It makes it way easier to see that it's user-created if we can see where it comes from. Camera metadata is almost never attached to an image on the web. You can upload a new version of the same file on Commons with the metadata - just go to the file and hit "upload a new version." As was mentioned above, if it looks promotional and appears to have been copied from a marketing release, it gets a whole lot of attention on Wikipedia.  Acroterion   (talk)   03:20, 20 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I just downloaded the Chianti image from WikiCommons and sadly it did have the camera data in it including the name of the crappy little camera I shot the image with. Maybe you are talking about optional photographer id, which I didn't add, because I shot the picture with a crappy little camera and didn't want my name on it. Are you saying that unless I put my name in the meta data, any shot I put on wiki will be questioned? I didn't really care about the Chianti shot so I didn't spend any time on it.


 * I'm not seeing it in the file description at the bottom. I'd expect to see something like the metadata at the bottom of this one - File:Sawtooth Valley ID1.jpg, less-than-optimal camera or not. In any case, that's not a bar, to uploading but it does help us to rule out trouble.  Acroterion   (talk)   01:40, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring
Your recent editing history at Chianti shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing&mdash;especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring&mdash;even if you don't violate the three-revert rule&mdash;should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. ~Anachronist (talk) 03:27, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

signing posts
And now for something completely different-- you can sign your talk page posts by placing four tildes at the end thusly- ~. --Dloh cier ekim  (talk) 03:39, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Blush... Okay... novice I am... signing... Although I will say that I am on a Swedish keyboard an tildes are hard to come by. Kirk clendinning (talk) 03:43, 20 April 2018 (UTC)