User talk:Kitchen roll/Archive 1

Van Morrison Discography
 Hi, Kitchen roll! (cool name) Great work on the Van Morrison articles and wanted to let you know I removed the DVD entry Van Morrison Under Review from the discography article in a friendly manner. I had just seen an entry on this blog- Bo Bice Underground where representatives of Van Morrison commented on this DVD. If I can help you at all with your editing, please feel free to ask. Good Cheer! Agadant (talk) 17:35, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

April 2008
Please do not delete content or templates from pages on Wikipedia without explaining the valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. CardinalDan (talk) 16:58, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Don't Despair
 I noticed what happened on your entries and can get a clear idea of what was going on; it wasn't that long ago when I was a newbie and got hit every time I made a mistake or started a new article. I've learned the hard way to not save an article until I have made it fairly substantial with the first edit. You're doing a great job in my opinion-keep a thick skin!! Let me know if I can help-Agadant (talk) 02:40, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Van Morrison articles
Sent you an email. Agadant (talk) 00:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

On line concerts
Good question, Kitchen roll. I have no idea what's going on in VanLand. But, you're right, they are getting very restrictive of what is put online of his work. I will see if there is a way to ask if this is permissible and let you know. I'd like to say again that your contributions to the articles are invaluable. I see you are a musician and I'm very admiring of that. I can't even read music, much less play an instrument but I love music and the instant response of the emotions to it. Van Morrison has created some of the most  uplifting music ever. You probably agree....Agadant (talk) 17:24, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Van Morrison
Hi, I've answered your question you placed on my talk page here: Talk:Van Morrison. I welcome your thoughts. -- Neil N   talk  ♦  contribs  04:12, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:VanMorrisonSingleICan'tStopLovingYou.JPG)
Thanks for uploading Image:VanMorrisonSingleICan'tStopLovingYou.JPG. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:27, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Not my fault, some stupid idiot deleted the page it was on and vandalized it (not that I like the song I Can't Stop Loving You anyway) and yes I know I'm answering a message sent by a bot.--Kitchen roll (talk) 15:16, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Image of Cry For Home
Like your sense of humour (above remark) Kitchen roll. I have a better image of the single "Cry For Home" from some website. (I'll have to find it) I thought of uploading it but wasn't sure if it should be used on the B-side song article such as "Summertime in England"? Maybe ask NeilN and see what he says. Agadant (talk) 16:19, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts, I think I was wrong to upload that image onto that page. I think they should only be used if the name of the B-side song is on the cover of the single.Kitchen roll (talk) 16:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Wild Night
Great handling of the situation on the article with the discography templates. Agadant (talk) 18:53, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks.Kitchen roll (talk) 16:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Here you go
Present for you!

[http://rateyourmusic.com/release/single/van_morrison/call_me_up_in_dreamland___street_choir/ How's this? Link] Have a good weekend! Agadant (talk) 20:12, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks loads, this website's awesome, great pictures, I'll put the "Call Me Up in Dreamland" one up tomorow. Kitchen roll (talk) 16:08, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Bright Side of the Road Image
Just saw the image you uploaded today in the article for "BSOTR". At first glance I thought it was vandalism. Ha! Never seen the single photo before but always wondered what it looked like. Cool! But doesn't look like it would be a VM cover does it? - Really captures the mood of the song though! Agadant (talk) 22:35, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Absolutely had to look twice when I first saw it. VM single covers tend to look a bit dull. No wonder it became one of his greatest songs with an attractive cover like that! Kitchen roll (talk) 12:07, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Notability of The Eternal Kansas City
First off, an article is not automatically notable just because there are articles already on Wikipedia about less notable stuff. You can see how this would create a free-for-all, I'm sure.

As for the Eternal Kansas City, what you can do is to cite references that claim that it is the key song on the album, and that should be enough to establish notability. If you need help formatting the refs, just ask me. --Slashme (talk) 05:00, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


 * OK, I just looked at the article again, and you sort of have done this already ;-) I just formatted the refs a bit to conform to our normal standards.  Thanks for adding the ISBN, by the way, that way I could just cut and paste into my absolute favourite online script. --Slashme (talk) 05:16, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Notability of "Stranded" and other Van Morrison songs
Hi, thanks for the replies re my comments on the notability of "Stranded". I don't think mere inclusion on a record company "greatest hits" compilation renders a song notable. Was it in fact a hit? Did it chart? If so, how high? Has anyone else covered it? I think these are usually better barometers of notability. I have the same doubts about notability as to the other VM songs I've commented on, and there are probably more. I'm a Van fan, too, but some of these song articles appear more appropriate for a fanzine.Cloonmore (talk) 17:14, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with you on the notability of "Domino" and "Wild Night", but we part company re Dylan! You're talking to someone who's a much bigger Dylan than Van fan. I haven't seen any Dylan song articles that I'd consider non-notable, but maybe some are out there. Back to Van: I seriously doubt whether some of these songs, like "Stranded", are notable. I think you'd be more well-advised to direct your efforts at incorporating those song articles into the relevant album articles. For an excellent example of this style, see the "Song Information" section of the article on Desire  (Dylan, of course!) Cloonmore (talk) 18:34, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know what you mean re biographical material on Dylan vs. Van. There's a whole book written just on the making of Blood on the Tracks (and a good read at that). But I don't see how that should inhibit you from moving some of those song articles into the articles for the respective albums. It's not like you've got to have information about every single song on an album before you can write about any one of them.  No problems re Tupelo Honey edits. Cloonmore (talk) 01:29, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Van images

 * Sure, it would be a great idea to put up images of some essential concerts on his main article, but the Wiki image policy is pretty strict about where the photos come from. You or I could take an image and use it on the article as long as we abided by the image rules that are  set up.  I'll admit I haven't read them but I would if I was considering putting an image into the article.  As for the album images removed, I thought that if they represented a certain part of the text about the album, they were permissable but someone else thought not and removed them.   You have to pick your battles on here, there's always some contentious matter going on and I'm not interested in getting involved in most of them.  Some editors have nothing else to do, it seems like...

You are to be commended for the prodigious work you put in to Wikipedia and the Van Morrison articles. I hope you are enjoying the experience. Thanks, Agadant (talk) 14:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, Kitchen roll, glad to see you back on board. Hope your time away was fun and relaxing.  I asked about the album images removed from the article as I've since seen them even in FA articles but so far no answer.  Do you like the new format for the double disc albums?  Some won't work though because there is not enough text in the main body of the article and the  top part of the track listing is buried under the infobox.  I'm going to try to enlarge these articles.  Agadant (talk) 18:50, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

CfD nomination of Category:Van Morrison singles
I have nominated van morrison singles for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at the discussion page. Thank you. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 14:02, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

His Band and the Street Choir
I removed the sleeve note quote by Janet Planet from this article because IMO it is the most ASININE statement I've ever come across on an album sleeve. And also not based on fact - "All that really did happen to Van" - from reading his biographies that's certainly "not" a true fact! I hate to be POV on your talk page but I wanted to make it clear my objection to the quote. I know it's interesting and does appear on the album sleeve but I just hate to see the article furthering the myth. (What was she thinking? (POV) (HA).- I know you've a sense of humour! Agadant (talk) 17:32, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's OK. I couldn't make much of what she was saying myself! I think she was making up a whole load of rubbish to get the sympathy vote. Kitchen roll (talk) 16:36, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Adding to articles
To answer your question, what I'm talking about takes patience, study and a real comprehension of the rules. AW and perhaps MD are fairly well written for now. (especially AW). I meant the other articles such as SDP. — Highway is a good example perhaps but it is almost completely lacking citations. There are other better examples but you have to look for them and have the time to really study them for guidance and proceed slowly. If you have a fault, it is impatience. So just try to slow down. Your enthusiasm and determination are to be applauded. Agadant (talk) 12:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice
Hi,

As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 20:15, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Manual of Style
Could you please look at this before you make any more punctuation changes? The last one you just made for HBATSC was actually changing it from a correct entry. - Wikipedia Manual of Style —When quoting a sentence fragment which ends in a period, some judgement is required: if the fragment communicates a complete sentence, the period can be placed inside. Maybe it would be best if one person went through and made the corrections. Since I spent hours already yesterday, perhaps if you can be patient, I might look through and change them. Question: Why do you make so many edits? Sometimes several entries or corrections can be done in one edit. That leaves the history of the article a little neater for everyone. Agadant (talk) 16:15, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Per your message: I've always heaped lots of praise on you, you deserve it, but I've also felt (and told you) that you need to slow down and be more patient. You can work on an edit to a section,  preview it to see how it looks, check for errors and then save it.  You will have less edit counts but they will be more meaningful.  And, of course, you will still make mistakes, we all do!  You've corrected some of mine too.  I hope I didn't come across as too harsh in above message,  but I was tired and it seemed like you were going full steam ahead.  Thanks, Agadant (talk) 17:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it - you're doing great! I'm taking a little Wikibreak trying to get my printer to working again.  They're all junk anymore and not worth taking in to get fixed!  Agadant (talk) 00:36, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Wow, it's actually working again!!Agadant (talk) 01:16, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The latest thing I've run into is the rule to not put links in quotes per MOS: links in quotes. You can help remove them if you want - the rule seems pretty clear. Wouldn't be wrong to remove all - I think sometimes exc. could apply as in mention of important named person, so I left in link to Bruce Springsteen & Elvis Costello in influence section of main article and Baudelaire in Veedon Fleece.  Agadant (talk) 15:57, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

About Ray Charles
Hi, Mr Roll. This really is a nice page for a big Morrison fan like me, I am enchanted to get here ! Unfortunately, I haven't got many informations about Ray's albums, I just own the CDs. I'll do what I can : a micro-step. As you may know, a large part of Ray's discography has never been issued on CD, so... By the way, some (boring) guy has recently erased two paragraphs of Ray's biography, and I'd really like to put them back, but I can't. Your discussion page is fantastic !

audio samples
Ha! I wish I did know how to upload audio samples! I'm like you, I can't figure it out. I don't know if we can upload them w/o permission as I just used previously uploaded ones. But the instructions are oblique to me- as with many instructions on Wiki-guess I'm dumb. I usually have to use an example on another article of whatever I want to do in order to figure it out!

Notice Ray Charles remark above. That article really needs protection from vandalism. I restored deleted material several times and would go back and find they had made another visit. What is the matter with some people? And why Ray Charles? Everyone should have nothing but respect for him. Agadant (talk) 16:35, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Van Morrison influences
You're right perhaps that wasn't the best reference for Rickie Lee Jones but she was definitely influenced by Van Morrison. Here's a better reference. The Devil in Miss jones. As far as John Lee Hooker goes, he was an influence on Morrison and T.B. Sheets was a natural for him to record, as it leaned so much towards Hooker and other blues greats that influenced Morrison in his youth. If you notice also, we never link to Amazon or other strickly commercial websites except under extraordinary circumstances. The infuences have been carefully considered and researched, although, of course all sources to each can't be included. Do you want to change them back or do I get to be accused of owning the article again? I find it really difficult to see inaccuracies included even with the best of intentions. Agadant (talk) 13:15, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Here's another reference for Rickie Lee Jones.You say it's your birthday- Rickie Lee Jones. Noticed the Sinead O'Connor reference has somehow gotten irrelevant.  Here's a good one for her if you want to change that reference. No Woman-No Cry Hot Press 1995.  Thanks for all your help.Agadant (talk) 14:15, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

VM article in general
A short time ago, I went through the article and worked on making it more concise as the length of it is becoming of issue (unless you consider other articles of long term, noteworthy musicians.) — Dylan's, McCartney's, etc. are longer. — His career has been almost nonstop except for the 3 years in the 70s. Therefore the skimpiest run through of career highlights is by necessity lengthly. Anyway, I focused on rewriting and deleting mostly my own material but in the process, I did remove 2 paragraphs written by you about the 2 videos that he put out. (Maybe you never noticed?) I think I never explained why (sorry, for the oversight). But I will now take the time however. — The 2 videos had articles of their own to include material on, also they are out of print and have never been put out in DVD format. (What a lost opportunity on his part!) The TV appearances such as the ones with Bob Dylan & the poets don't have mention anywhere else (that I know of). As far as the length of the article goes, it doesn't include lengthly references to tours, bands, etc. so I think it has been edited for content about as much as can be without removing unfairly some important highlights. What do you think? Agadant (talk) 14:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

P McC article and other matters
My thoughts exactly, looks almost like some kind of fansite focusing on really unimportant details in some instances. The article on the concerts will be really nice but don't stress on it - just take your time. Kudos to you for attempting such a project! Looking at references tonite and filled in some extra info on R. L. Jones ref. and Sinead because I only found out myself recently that all that can be listed would be useful to help recover the ref. if it becomes archived. Something is strange about Allmusic ref. lately, they revert back to the home page in many instances - I've been trying to fix and hold the P. Lynott one without success. Agadant (talk) 02:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Websites
I don't think the VM website is really much different (or worse) than many other artist's. I've seen some for prominent musicians that haven't been updated in months. Well, good for you going to the concert. With your interest in playing so many instruments, I'm sure you'll really enjoy it. Agadant (talk) 21:18, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Van Morrison and others
Check out some of my favorite famous people listed in My reply to you, I think you'll find them of interest perhaps. Most of the Wiki articles on them are fairly good. Agadant (talk) 12:38, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

references for VM article
Good job! Esp. the Greil Marcus ref. - what's going to matter now is all the exact little requirements: grammar rules, punc., etc. that Wiki Good Articles specifies, I'll try to read up this weekend and maybe you can do the same. BTW: I changed the reference info a little to reflect the exact author, title of the article and date of article- this has been explained as useful in case the reference becomes unaccessible due to archiving in the website.—then it can be retrieved according to all the information given in the reference. (I find things stick more with me if I know the reason why to do them. Maybe you're like that too.) Agadant (talk) 18:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Deleted album and videos
I did an edit recently - as you know - trying to get the article down to more manageable size. The Skiffle Sessions - Live in Belfast 1998 is still mentioned in the article, see 1990s. As for You Win Again the album has been deleted and out of print and doesn't seem to be scheduled for re-issue anymore than The Best of Van Morrison is—although the importance of this album is worth it being mentioned since it has been one of his best sellers. During this editing down for size, I also removed the two videos he has put out —both also out of print—(I did discuss this with you as you were the one to make the original edit) and you said you were okay with it. I also deleted some of my own edits. The focus now has to be on WMOS or these requirements will not be met, once more. I believe the same thing happened before where it got off focus when the article was about to be nominated. Adding references has only increased the length, I'm all for getting the WMOS requirements taken care of or just forgetting it. Agadant (talk) 17:27, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Expansion of article
Why? I thought you were going to read up on the WMOS requirements. Now the article is almost 97,000 bytes. What you entered about The Healing Game could just as well be put in the album article. Yes, I know some other albums have more content on the main article but that was already there and seems appropriate. You've been an editor for about seven months and never entered all this new material on the main article. Why Now..when I pared it down a little. Sorry, I am truly perplexed. I thought you wanted to help get the article a GA nomination and were going to work towards that. Do you really think anyone cares about the new material? The article will be rated on all the WMOS requirements just as it was failed on them before. Agadant (talk) 16:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That's okay. But I've seen no reason to hope that rules are applied equally on Wiki, therefore I don't think this article will be allowed to progress to the size of the other. Your addition to The Healing Game brings up the question of correct comma placement.  A comma denotes a pause and that doesn't sound right after Although..those are the kind of things we need to have correct.  Like everyone else nowadays, my writing skills have withered away since no one cares anymore about such things except on Wiki.  My time is really limited right now and may be for a little longer, so I'm for putting off any nominating until later.  I'm just trying to maintain the progress already made.  Sorry, if I have come across as impatient.

Could you help out with the references for POST MORRISON on the Them article. I know, neither you nor I left the material unreferenced but we'll probably have to source it- if it gets done. I put a citation template on the article and I just hate those things to stay on. Thanks, Agadant (talk) 21:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't worry about it, Kitchenroll: There's plenty of time to work on the Them article.  Get your other commitments taken care of first.  That's what I am doing.  Wiki will be here when we have time, that's one of the good things about it.  Agadant (talk) 15:41, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Into the Mystic single
Welcome back. Hope your time away was productive. Regarding the citation template for "Into the Mystic" released as a single in the Moondance article - here's where the original entry was made. -. So, it is probably up to you if you want to remove this entry as I don't think the original editor will be back to reference it. Agadant (talk) 23:34, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Image:Vanvideos_003.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Vanvideos_003.jpg, has been listed at Images and media for deletion. Please see the to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Jordan 1972 (talk) 19:48, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Sult Spirit of the Music
Answered on my talk page:

New Reply on my talk page:

Orphaned non-free media (Image:RedwoodTreesingle.JPG)
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WikiProject Ireland
You have removed the WikiProject Ireland template from a number of Irish articles that mainly relate to Van Morrison. It seems that you are unaware that WikiProject Ireland covers ALL of the island of Ireland and not only the state known as Ireland according to your claim. In fact the WikiProject Northern Ireland that you have added instead is a decendant project of the Ireland project so is completely proper to have both if you wish, but removal of one in preference to the other is not proper. Just add the other project template, but I suggest that you leave the assessment to the assessment teams of the different projects as there are criteria for assessment that you may not be familiar with. Any article can be in several different projects at the same time as you will see from many other article talk pages, so please do not delete any WikiProject's template again. Thanks ww2censor (talk) 00:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)


 * ww2censor (talk) 17:37, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * More. ww2censor (talk) 17:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
 * More. ww2censor (talk) 17:52, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

edit remarks
I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but the tone of your correcting edit remark comes across to me as being rather intimidating and authoritative. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Blowin%27_Your_Mind!&action=history Blowin Your Mind! history]. He did after all contribute some useful information. Agadant (talk) 18:42, 21 November 2008 (UTC) Why 3 edits to change Magazine to magazine and add brackets? If you will take a little more time it can easily be done in one. Just a suggestion. Edit count is not as important as contributions to the article in my opinion. Agadant (talk) 19:08, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

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