User talk:Kleinzach/Archive 30

Happy Birthday Chopin!

 * -- Etincelles  (talk)  17:05, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Przemysław Lechowski
Hi, I've seen you've objected that there are no sources to verify the significance of the person in question. Yesterday his biography was deleted from the Polish Wikipedia - the sources referred to the person only generally, and he himself is practically unknown in the country. Perhaps it's a self-advertisement. The discussion about the entry in Polish was dominated by Sock Puppets. I hope you'll have a look at the matter; I'd be grateful because I don't know the procedure of deleting in the English Wikipedia. Greetings --Gregory of nyssa (talk) 10:26, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * In the meantime the author blanked the page. --Gregory of nyssa (talk) 10:41, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your messages. I see your prod is now back in place. Maybe we should wait to see if it is challenged? Let me know if I can help any further. Regards. -- Klein zach  23:21, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

List of operas by Ponchielli
Hi! Does your source say anything about Alduna (1884), a revision of I Lituani (1874) ? Do you think it should be added to the list? --Jetman (talk) 11:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * Aldona (not Alduna) is a character in I Lituani. According to our article on I Lituani, it was just a title used for a single Russian performance. Budden, the author of the Ponchielli and I Lituani articles in Grove, doesn't mention it. I don't think we can regard classical-composers.org as a reliable source. Hope that helps. -- Klein zach  00:29, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Robert Bruce (opera)
Thanks for the corrections - the Roles table was based on Ermione, but I forgot to alter the date! You'll notice that one of the minor characters is designated "musico", which redirects to castrato, but that article says nothing about the use of "musico" for singers of breeches roles (we're in Tom Kaufman territory here - did you know that he's quite ill?). I'd be inclined to do a separate short article on the musico with an appropriate link to castrato. Incidentally, the Almanacco had "musichetto" rather than "musico", but (see Grove) a redirect to castrato would be completely wrong there. --GuillaumeTell 14:03, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll be having a go at providing a synopsis for RB based on Google's translation of the Italian translation and my O-level Italian(!!) --GuillaumeTell 14:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

I've just checked in Grove and seen your new article on Musico. Very good. I think I'll add a note about primo musico. . . -- Klein zach  06:45, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Then there's primo uomo, which redirects to prima donna ... --GuillaumeTell 14:31, 1 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I think that's because primo uomo is tacked onto the prima donna article. Do you think it should be a separate article? Or redirect to Convenienze? -- Klein zach  23:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Definitely a separate article (see what John Rosselli (not John Rosselli!) has to say in Grove). It's ridiculous to combine completely different subjects, and the Convenienze article could be expanded, too.   But I'm off to bed now, or now-ish, and may not be doing much here until Sunday. --GuillaumeTell 00:07, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

WP Composers in the Signpost
WikiProject Report would like to focus on WikiProject Composers for a Signpost article to be published April 12. This is an excellent opportunity to draw attention to your efforts and attract new members to the project. Would you be willing to participate in an interview? If so, here are the questions for the interview. Feel free to skip any questions that you don't feel comfortable answering. Also, if you know anyone else who would like to participate in the interview, feel free to share this with them. -Mabeenot (talk) 02:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

French capitalisation
Please read my comments here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Opera — Tchao, Charvex (talk) 08:45, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * And my comments underneath. Any chance you can dig out some archived discussions? --<b style="color:forestgreen;">Guillaume</b><i style="color:blue;">Tell</i> 14:24, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * And mine x2. The second a retraction...  Clearly Grove is the best source.  Hope all is well?  --Jubilee♫ clipman  14:45, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I've added links to the relevant discussions in the archives and summarised the gist on the current OP talk page. Voceditenore (talk) 16:30, 1 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Good. Let's hope that is the end of the matter. -- Klein zach  23:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

La Muse & Nicklausse
Thinking (also) of you I nominated these characters for DYK, approved over night! I still wonder if the Hoffmann recording is of 1989 (source 1), 1984 (source 2) or 1990 (Discography)? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:02, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * additional question: is there a category showing that Claudia Eder is an operatic AND a concert singer? Just Operatic mezzo would seems too narrow to me. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:01, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * At the moment there are no categories for concert singers. It's been suggested several times, but no one has been willing to do the necessary work to set them up. In my own opinion it's not really worth the effort, because there are so few classical concert singers who were not also in opera. Best. -- Klein zach  08:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I've fixed the cats for Eder. -- Klein zach  08:08, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for fixing. - Ingeborg Danz has not a single opera in her article, therefore I thought the more general cat without the "operatic" was more appropriate, operatic being misleading. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
 * In haste. Hamburg State Opera? That's what it says. I don't have time for a detailed discussion about this, but you will find them in the archives. The 'more general cat' is a refugee one. When singers go into it they become non-people forever to be undiscovered by bots, etc etc. -- Klein zach  08:21, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Eudemis
Hello, Kleinzach! I notice you had problems with this editor at Kathleen Battle, and I'm wondering exactly whose sock he is. He's not objected to my tagging of one of his IP socks here, and his excuses are typical of sock accounts ("Forgot to log in" and "My IP changes a lot"). I think he escaped detection here, but I'm not sure why. Any thoughts on the matter? I appreciate your time, as I'm very suspicious of this editor, and believe him to be an disruptive SPA sock, mostly eager to insert controversial material into BLP's and accuse editors of "ownership" (most recently at Russell Crowe... Doc9871 (talk) 00:59, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Leaving project
You say you were disappointed? What gives? Headbomb {talk / contribs / physics / books} 17:11, 8 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you participated in the various discussions, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Wikipedia-Books/Archive 1. -- Klein zach  23:43, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 17:43, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

List of art music traditions move proposal
Hey just though since you were the last one to move List of art music traditions, I thought you would be interested in the move discussion on the talkpage. Sorry for the delay. Munci (talk) 15:57, 19 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you. I've now commented. -- Klein zach  01:12, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Cantata
Hi Kleinzach, you removed Cantata from the Classical music discussion before any answer. What would happen if I remove from the List of Bach cantatas by liturgical function the "Ordinary time" headings that I find inappropriate (as explained in the question)? How could I find out if there are links to those subtitles? - The article Cantata needs improvement, and I don't think I qualify. Do you know someone? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:01, 23 June 2010 (UTC)


 * The norm is to archive after 14 days. If you want to keep the question alive, the best way to do this is to post a reminder before the two weeks are up. Unfortunately WP is very much in decline these days - especially the music projects after the awful shenanigans of the infobox dispute - so few people are participating.


 * I'd advise posting about the issue on the List of Bach cantatas by liturgical function talk page. If you get no response then go ahead and make the changes you think are necessary. Lastly I don't know anyone who is particularly qualified to write about Cantata. Regards. -- Klein zach  08:28, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Thank you for explaining! I thought that even fewer people would look at the list's talk page than at classical music but will ask there. - As for the changes: I hesitate because headings are involved if I would delete "Ordinary time" altogether, I don't know if that might affect links. I think if the term is mentioned at all it would be sufficient to state in the text that certain times were festive, others quiet, the rest "ordinary". The term should certainly not appear in the middle of Pentecost. - Cantata: I would prefer a simple line stating that a cantata is a piece that is sung and played (as opposed to just sung, with instruments colla parte) to the many very personal words we have now (and I shortened already). This is of course too general ... --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:02, 24 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I've added a little to Cantata. At least it has a reference now. I think it needs rewriting to show how the term changed in meaning over time. I guess terms like 'cantata da camera' and 'cantata da chiesa' need their own short articles. -- Klein zach  00:31, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
 * What you modestly called "a little" is GREAT help, thank you. I just reduced the # of Bach cantatas to the more modest one of the "extant" ones. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:15, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Duvernoy
Hello Kleinzach: I've created a page for Alphonse Duvernoy who seems to come from a long line of French musicians/composers. "Duvernoy" redirected to Edmond Duvernoy, Alphonse's brother. Could you help me change "Duvernoy" to the disambiguation page, as on the German (de:Duvernoy) and Russian (ru:Дювернуа Wikipedias, with the following:


 * Charles Duvernoy (Jacques Charles Duvernoy) (1766–1845), French clarinetist and composer; father of Henri, Charles-François, and Frédéric Duvernoy
 * Charles-François Duvernoy (1796–1872), French opera singer; brother of Henri and Frédéric Duvernoy; father of Victor Alphonse and Edmond Duvernoy
 * Edmond Duvernoy (1844–1927), French baritone and teacher; brother of Victor Alphonse Duvernoy
 * Frédéric Nicolas Duvernoy (1765–1838), French horn player and composer; brother of Charles Duvernoy
 * Frédéric Duvernoy (1800–1874), French horn player; brother of Henri Duvernoy
 * Henri Duvernoy (1820–1906), French composer and organist
 * Victor Alphonse Duvernoy (1842–1907), French pianist and composer; brother of Edmond Duvernoy

Also, is it possible to transfer the photo of Alphonse Duvernoy used on the other Wikipedias (i.e. French Wikipedia) to the English page? Can anyone do that? Are there general guidelines? Thank you in advance for your help, Hrdinský   〒  17:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

✅ -- Klein zach  15:20, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for your help! Hrdinský   〒  15:42, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

New sub-sub-category Opera singers discographies
In my opinion this new category is not correct. I believe the four articles in this new category should be categorised as Classical music discographies (the main category), since these singers do not limit themselves to opera, and all four discographies also contain non-operatic recordings. If there is to be a further sub-categorisation of the category Classical music discographies (apart form the Opera discographies sub-category), it would make more sense to separate discographies dedicated to a particular work from discographies dedicated to a particular classical "artist" (be this a singer, instrumentalist, conductor, orchestra or ensemble). However, considering the relatively small number of articles in the main category, I don't think further sub-categories are necessary for now. Your reaction please. Francesco Malipiero (talk) 13:11, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * The cat is actually Category:Opera singer discographies. I don't see any problem. Perhaps you would like to take this to the Opera Project as they maintain these cats? -- Klein zach  15:11, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Will do. Francesco Malipiero (talk) 15:24, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Clearcutting reference
Hi, in December of last year you made this edit to the clearcutting article, adding the reference directly to the references section. Could I persuade you to add it directly into the body of the text à la WP:CIT? I'd do it myself but I frankly have no idea what material it's supporting (and have no access to academic journals as of late). I'm going to expand on the article but want to clarify all of the current material with references before I proceed, hopefully eliminating any potential problems with WP:GA in the (distant) future. Thanks. Minnecologies (talk) 15:05, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm away at the moment and I don't remember this very well, so I think I'd prefer to leave it to you. I think you understand the problems that existed with this article, and you will have seen my various attempts to get it in order. I'd be happy to look at this again in September if you still have questions then. Regards. -- Klein zach  04:45, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Cfd for Category:Non-Western classical music genres
Hi, you replied to the original discussion on this topic, Categories for discussion/Log/2010 May 23. In case you would reply to the new one, here it is: Categories for discussion/Log/2010 September 29 Regards, Munci (talk) 11:47, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Voice types in role tables
Do we have a policy regarding "Voice type" designations in role tables for specific operas? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that these should be kept to the main categories, such as soprano, mezzo-soprano, and should not be listed as "dramatic soprano", for example, even when the original score lists it as such. --Robert.Allen (talk) 20:07, 8 October 2010 (UTC)


 * That's correct. It's explained in the Opera Project guideline on Role tables. Has the issue come up somewhere? Regards. -- Klein zach  00:32, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * For Les Troyens, the role of Cassandre is apparently listed as "soprano dramatique" in the score. I read over the policy, and it does not seem totally clear to me. If it's listed in the score that way, maybe it is acceptable to put it in the role table. I'm unsure, so I haven't changed the recent edits. I was considering changing her vocal type to just "soprano", but if Berlioz put it down that way, maybe it is OK? --Robert.Allen (talk) 07:54, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No I don't think so. We are not using French/German etc for voice types, and there is an existing guideline against 'dramatic soprano' and similar (see above). Of course if you (or anyone else) disagrees with the guideline, a change can be proposed to the Opera Project, but maybe you are happy with the current system anyway? I'll have a look at Les Troyens. Thanks. -- Klein zach  15:10, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Chart of classical composers
Do you know which article contains that nice chart, in various colors, of the main European classical composers, with their time frames and genres? If so, can you let me know on my Talk page? Thanks a lot. Softlavender (talk) 02:54, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * There were a lot of technical problems with these graphics which couldn't be resolved. I was not in favour of using them. I think they were all removed. -- Klein zach  03:08, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, welcome back to Wikipedia. They've all been retained except the main one, which was always one of my most useful tools. I am devastated that it's now no longer on Wikipedia mainspace! Michael Bednarek saw my Q here and sent me the link to the defunct chart on my Talk page. Softlavender (talk) 04:07, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * May I ask if you have changed your username? Where you somebody else before? -- Klein zach  00:14, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, I just saw this question and no, I've always had this username and this one account. Softlavender (talk) 07:23, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Verdi Requiem
Mille grazie! For doing justice to his best opera. I'll sing it in choir this weekend for the first time! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:11, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * My pleasure! I hope my cleanup will make it easier for people to improve the article. -- Klein zach  00:13, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Gatti
I will look at New Grove; a cursory look at other wikis doesn't reveal anything... otherwise I will delink.--FeanorStar7 (talk) 11:30, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * new info: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theobaldo_di_Gatti

this is probably him; but he doesn't have an English page... hmm...


 * Yes, that's him. He's in the Opera Grove. He also has an opera called Scylla which also has an article there. He's certainly worth a page. -- Klein zach  12:10, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Recategorization of operettas/ Les mousquetaires au couvent
All of the other operettas have been subcategorized, and therefore Category:Operettas contains only subcategorizations, except for Mousquetaires, which is why I removed its parent categories, per standard Wikipedia policy. If the Opera Project (archives, not even visible to the general reader at this point) is going to create its own policy that is completely opposed to standard Wikipedia policy, then there needs to be an invisible notation along with the parent categories on each article (probably placed both above and below the categories, so that it is certain to be seen), so that subsequent editors will not come along and delete them per Wikipedia policy. Since Mousquetaires is now the only operetta not following general Wikipedia policy, it looks silly in the Operetta category, and therefore that parent category should be removed, in my opinion. Lastly, List articles are what are used to compile all articles in a parent category. Softlavender (talk) 02:02, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I see you created Category:French-language operettas on 17 October. Why not say what you did frankly instead of giving me" per standard Wikipedia policy" rigamarole. Did you explain to the Opera Project what you were doing? Did you ask their advice? Didn't you realize that Category:French-language operettas was inconsistent with other opera categories which use original language to avoid ambiguity? What other opera categories have you invented? Please give me a list so I can check them out. Remember that good categorization is there to serve the reader, not the WP bureaucracy. Thank you. -- Klein  zach  03:36, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * "Category:French-language operettas was inconsistent with other opera categories which use original language to avoid ambiguity?" I don't follow you there. All of the operettas in that category were originally written in the French language. If there's a category for one language, there should logically be categories for the other langauges, same as there are for operas. Softlavender (talk) 05:19, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Category:French-language operettas is undefined. It's inconsistent with the other well-defined and established French genre cats. This is a pain because cats can't be simply moved like articles with wrong titles. That's why it's vital to check out new categorization with involved editors, before creating it and recategorizing batches of articles. -- Klein zach  05:31, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * The category is defined at the top of the category, the same as Category:English-language operettas. Softlavender (talk) 05:55, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * @Softlavender: The categorisation of the categories "fooian-language operettas" seems hierarchically incorrect. Category:French-language operettas appears in Category:Operas by language and in Category:French-language operas which itself appears in Category:Operas by language. I think the Category:Operas by language should be removed from the categories for "fooian-language operettas". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:25, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Hi Michael: They share the same heirarchy as Category:English-language operettas. Softlavender (talk) 05:19, 30 November 2010 (UTC)
 * … and as Category:German-language operettas & Category:Hungarian-language operettas & Category:Italian-language operettas & Category:Russian language operettas & Category:Yiddish-language operettas; that's why a wrote "fooian-language operettas". All these categories suffer from the same illogical categorisation. I understand that operettas are treated as a genre of opera; consequently, the Category:English-language operettas should only be categorised as Category:English-language operas, not as Category:Operas by language; otherwise it will appear twice in the latter category. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:08, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) Yes, I'm sure that's correct. That way we can separate the 'by language' cats and the genre cats and maintain a consistent coherent structure. -- Klein zach  06:17, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not the one who originally categorized the early by-language operetta subcategories as "Operas by language". I merely followed their lead. Softlavender (talk) 06:14, 30 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, I know some of them were created a long time ago, but nevertheless we'd appreciate your cooperation in trying to solve the problem - especially at the Cfds! -- Klein zach  08:32, 30 November 2010 (UTC)