User talk:Knifegames

On Editing Pages for L'Rain
To: Knifegames

Thank you for making pages on this musician possible! I discovered her through Pitchfork, which had an interview with her. I think it's amazing how many awesome references you were able to find.

As a person of color, finding and elaborating on the work of African-American, Asian-American, Hispanic, etc. here on Wikipedia feels good. Thanks again for helping the information in the album pages to be correct!

I hope we can chat more about good musicians and their recordings that would make great pages.

With sincerity, Quail &#38; Metal (talk) 02:00, 17 July 2021 (UTC)


 * ––I'm glad you stopped by! I've been listening to L'Rain's work for a few years now, but I only started a draft when a big New York Times feature came out in June… & your album articles are what spurred me to finish/publish, so thanks for that :). Nice job on Fatigue, too; it seems like you're learning fast!


 * No "original research" and verifiability are core content policies on Wikipedia––that's why it's so important that in the Fatigue article, for example, you went with "Psychedelic musicians like Syd Barrett and quartet Animal Collective have been noted as spiritual touchstones for L'Rain's music.[2] L'Rain has cited the latter's early recordings as informative to her.[7]" with references following each statement. If you had written, "Psychedelic musicians like Syd Barrett and quartet Animal Collective are spiritual touchstones for L'Rain's music; the latter's early recordings were informative to her" with no source, a reader might think… Well, says who? You showed that this was not "original research" by giving sources a person can check to verify the statements, which is great. :)


 * Album articles can be tricky, though: it's hard to make the case that an album is important enough for its own article if the artist doesn't even have one, or if the article on them is minimal, lacks references, etc. Right now your article Couldn't Wait to Tell You is marked as an "orphan", which means nothing else on Wikipedia links to that page; I can't find any references to it, & there's no page for the artist Liv.e. If you're looking to contribute to Wikipedia coverage of POC musicians, I would recommend working on artist articles before album articles. The former is more useful because people are more likely to search for the artist/group––& if they don't have any coverage, an article on their album is likely to be removed.


 * Most importantly: work on drafts in your sandbox before "creating" or publishing articles. The reason I got the L'Rain article up so quickly is because I had already started the work in my sandbox; there's no way I could draft an entire article on an artist in one sitting! It looks like you've been "creating" pages before you have any information; that kind of outlining should be kept in your "userspace", off the "main" part of Wikipedia. Once you have a draft that looks good, you can drop me a note &/or head to "Articles for creation", hit the blue "Click here to start a new article" button, & copy/paste your draft there.


 * Given the situation with your last album article, I think you already have your next musician Wiki-work idea: you should start working on an article for Liv.e; she's definitely notable! But remember to start that work in your sandbox––***don't*** just "create" the article in the mainspace!! It's far worse for an artist to have a poorly-written Wikipedia article than no article at all.

Liv.e start

 * I did some quick googling; here's some info to get you started:


 * "One to watch: Liv.e" (The Guardian):
 * "The Dallas-born, LA-based artist’s lo-fi music evades categorisation with a knowing wink, weaving its way around experimental R&B, cosmic jazz, gospel, neo-soul, spoken word and the drowsy undoneness of chopped and screwed."
 * [In 2019, she] "collaborated on a track with the rapper Earl Sweatshirt, after he invited her on tour with him (he’d slid into her DMs, excited by her 2018 EP hoopdreams). And this summer [2020] she launched her debut album, Couldn’t Wait to Tell You, with a livestream on none other than Erykah Badu’s website."
 * "Liv.e wrote the album while living at her mum’s in St Louis, Missouri, and working in Urban Outfitters."
 * "Liv.e: Couldn’t Wait to Tell You" (Pitchfork)
 * "Liv.e: R&B’s new avant-garde star who’s 'tired of whispering'" (NME)
 * "GET TO KNOW: LIV.E" (DJ Mag)
 * "Singer Liv.e Creates Her Own Dreamy World Through Soulful Songs and Eclectic Beauty" (Vogue)
 * "Liv.e’s Soulful Existence Was Freestyled From Solitude" (HYPEBEAST)


 * Good luck!! :) // Knifegames (talk) 08:06, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Category:French female jazz singers
Please extend this project to Category:French female jazz singers etc. There is currently a red link there. – Fayenatic  L ondon 11:57, 24 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi Fayenatic  L ondon! Moved this over to talk page, just for my own organization... And agreed! I plan to hit all zillion, but since some are bigger I'm going through the standard category for renaming nomination process for the first pile; it might take another week or two, but once the 2nd batch is "approved" I'll feel comfortable doing speedy renaming noms for the rest. (Also avoiding doing too many at once so I can keep up with cleanup on the category pages.) Feel free to list any you encounter here so I can copy/paste them quickly when doing the bundled CfRs... If you ever feel up for the excitement, ha! Either way, thanks for giving me a heads up on that one. :) // Knifegames (talk) 21:35, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * ...Fayenatic  L ondon, you can disregard my note about adding things here; wouldn't make sense to duplicate! If you want to see which I've submitted / will soon submit *or* add anything, you can check/edit the list on my main userpage here. // Knifegames (talk) 23:20, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi again Fayenatic  L ondon! I saw your to-do note on my user page & wanted to say THANK YOU: I didn't realize earlier that I hadn't updated all the classification trees & some subcategories weren't showing up in the right place; I'm new to category maintenance & forgot that renamings don't work like redirects / missed some cleanup, oops! That should all be fixed now.
 * Also, I tried to do a "speedy" CfR for the last two batches––you can see those here (scroll down to the yellow bar)––but I'm not sure they'll go through, so there might be a bit more of a wait... // Knifegames (talk) 10:36, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes, those are OK for processing and I will do them now. For reference, I have also saved the discussion at Category talk:Women musicians. – Fayenatic  L ondon 13:48, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much!! I just dropped another bundle in speedy rename noms, all the subcats of Category:Women singers by nationality. // Knifegames (talk) 21:23, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm a dummy: I *did* notice earlier that you started CfRs for women rappers by nationality subcats, but somehow I totally forgot & started doing them myself? I only realized my mistake when I pulled up a page & saw a template… Since I already have stuff ready to copy/paste, I'm going to pull the trigger & then just them in a collapsible bar beneath your noms. Sorry/thanks! // Knifegames (talk) 23:01, 7 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks again, Fayenatic  L ondon, for processing so many of these!!
 * You probably already saw this, but just to mention: a number of these are C2C per "Category:Women musicians by instrument"; "women singers" also falls under that category, but I somehow missed it in my earlier submissions, & because it hasn't yet been processed there's a situation with classification trees.
 * I'm not sure what does/doesn't trigger the update; for example, Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo women singers still has all bluelinked envelope categories, one being "female singers", whereas Category:Croatian women singers has switched to "women singers", which is a redlink. Most of this will be resolved once Category:Female singers to Category:Women singers goes through, but right now there are a pile of pages linking to the latter (currently nonexistent) category, so I'm holding off on submitting anything else related to singing––except for Category:African female singers, which I'm about to add, as it's another priority fix. // Knifegames (talk) 06:34, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Noted. The renamed categories have more sub-cats yet to be nominated when time allows, e.g. those within Category:British women rappers. – Fayenatic  L ondon 17:02, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes! I have those prepped on my user page, I just didn't know if I should wait until more things went through… But if it's not actively annoying anyone then I'll go throw another pile on the fire. :) Knifegames (talk) 23:46, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * A couple people asked about using "women" as a modifier... I demonstrated that this is straightforward (looking at the "women" vs "female" breakdown in Women by occupation is *hilarious*) and assume it's fine, but I know a traditional CfD would take longer for resolving inconsistencies; to maximize the odds of quickly wrapping things up, I've added another batch of singers.
 * If I need to take these back to a traditional CfD, that'll be fine; everyone there was great, & I have all the copy prepped. It's another hefty batch, but I think batch #9 of the CfRs is it; it's possible I've missed *something*, but I believe these may be all the musician-related categories using "female".
 * (I'll likely hold off on submitting some of the more nebulous categories (e.g., Category:Fictional female musicians) before switching them over, as it's possible some articles may fall under Category:Child musicians or Category:Girl groups rather than Women singers or musicians.) // Knifegames (talk) 09:40, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

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thank you for the Black Eyes article rework!
saw that you had sent me thanks for my edit changing Black Eyes' status from inactive to active - many more thanks are due to you in turn! their article is looking much better now. here's hoping a new album is on the way. —Supervocalic15 (talk) 01:58, 17 December 2023 (UTC)


 * @Supervocalic15, hello, I completely missed this! I deeply appreciate your note; there are a lot of grumpy editors around these parts, and it's so refreshing when someone takes a moment to express gratitude instead. :) Thanks so much –– and yes, looking forward!! // Knifegames (talk) 12:14, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

no wp:self published source
Per the discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums/Archive_46#Piero_Scaruffi_-_Final_Verdict_on_using_him_as_a_source_in_reviews there's a very clear consensus here that Scaruffi is not to be used as a source in music/album articles in any capacity. So please, do not add his opinions anymore. It is a wp:self published source. Since this is a long running dispute, any contributor warned by the situation and who doesn't respect it, would encounter sanctions and could be blocked from editing. Thanks. You've been informed because you used this source here. Woovee (talk) 22:14, 6 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Got it –– but in case you're copy/pasting this to others, a head's up that your note seems a bit dramatic! I will certainly try to remember the results of this "long running dispute" I've never heard about until now, but I'm one of many with a life and work that can keep me from Wikipedia for months at a time; it's not unthinkable that such a person might forget the "verdict."
 * If the goal is to spread the word without alienating or discouraging editors, I would recommend something like, "Hello! Just so you know, Scaruffi is considered a self-published & not a reliable source; please avoid citing him in the future."
 * From consulting your link, it appears I used the source as an extraneous backup on a discography entry, one of many I included hoping to facilitate future article expansion; I will do my best to avoid repeating this error, but I would hope the action wouldn't warrant sanctions or blocking. :) // Knifegames (talk) 12:10, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Hello, it's noted; I will add a Hello first before dropping that message another time. But It's important to include a kind of threat in the text as the communtity had to deal with tons of edits in the past and it took ages to clean up wiki. Woovee (talk) 18:47, 8 July 2024 (UTC)