User talk:Kraftlos/Archive 3

Verifiability/Use English/Burden conflated with content issues
Kraftlos -- On one hand, Mentoring Tenmei was a failure because we didn't develop plausible strategies for averting the problem which has developed here at Talk:List of tributaries of Imperial China.
 * In 2009, I foresaw a set of prospective issues recurring ad nauseam; and I sought help here. The counter-intuitive result was ArbCom punishment in order to molify the indignant, extravagant complaints of Caspian blue and Teeninvestor.
 * In 2010, Mentorship did not address the questions with which I began nor did the investment of time encompass averting recidivism. Regrettably, my writing and weekly status reports for mentors remained opaque.  I didn't manage to ask for help in a way that made responding easy or possible.

On the other hand, Mentoring Tenmei was a success because both  Caspian blue and Teeninvestor appear to have withdrawn from Wikipedia, and I'm still here to address the kinds of questions their edits and strategies inspired. In their absence, WP:Verifiability/WP:Use English/WP:Burden will continue to be conflated with content issues; but my comments and questions are less likely to be misconstrued as personal attacks.

Kraftlos -- Now that the formal mentorship period has ended, are you willing to help me develop a strategy for dealing with problems I expect to recur. These do not appear to be conventional in your editing experience. This may be unique to East Asian topics and contributors; and if so, your perspective is all the more valuable. I predict that problems like the one here will persist and increase in the foreseeable future -- not because this is a self-fulfilling prophesy -- but because of developments in East Asia and because of the nature of our collaborative context. This category includes the stale problems I discovered with Caspian blue at Talk:Joseon Tongsinsa/Archive 1 and also similar to what I encountered with Teeninvestor at Talk:Tang Dynasty in Inner Asia/Archive 1.

I do not invite your intervention in any specific dispute thread. Rather, I'm looking for your help in forward-looking analysis and planning. The response I'm looking for is binary: "yes" or "no"? If you're no longer interested in this kind of open-ended activity, please accept my sincere thanks for the help you've already offered. --Tenmei (talk) 19:47, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

List
Hi! I saw you were involved with a previous nomination for deletion of List of suicides in fiction, and felt you should be informed of Articles for deletion/List of suicides in fiction (3rd nomination). Thanks!--Yaksar (let's chat) 17:33, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Request_for_comment/Tenmei
Hi. If you are still acting as Tenmei's mentor you might want to look at Requests_for_comment/Tenmei. Taemyr (talk) 08:27, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I'm back
I've been away from Wikipedia for a while. Been spending my online time doing other things. I think marathoning page clean-ups, AfD, and RfC was what did it. Anyway, expect to see more from me this month; and if I find something interesting to do, I'll probably keep at it. If you watch my talkpage, go ahead and say hi! I ask only out of a vain curiosity. :P -- Kraftlos  (Talk | Contrib) 04:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Mentoring Tenmei
I want to thank you again for your mentoring.

I appreciated your efforts; and my participation the project was affected by your investments of time and thought. --Tenmei (talk) 15:41, 29 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Roger Davies commented about here about "recognizing the very considerable efforts that went into mentorship" ....


 * In my opinion, each of us did everything we were asked to do. Those who volunteered to be mentors deserve repeated thanks and acknowlegement, nothing less. --Tenmei (talk) 03:15, 1 October 2011 (UTC)


 * One added note: Roger Davies now assesses mentorship in terms of whatever he means by the phrase "subsequent failure".


 * Shall I allow this phrase to pass unchallenged. No mentors failed, nor was mentorship a failure.


 * Whatever Roger Davies meant is only another example of moving the goalposts. Yes, ArbCom failed us all again.... And yes, if someone will explain it to me, I can try to understand how and why I failed again -- but not you .  Please believe that you did all that anyone could have hoped for or expected.  --Tenmei (talk) 03:47, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi Tenmei. As you may or may not have noticed, I've become a lot less active the past few months and haven't been able to keep up on this discussion. I'm not sure what you mean by "moving the goalposts" because it appears the goals have remained the same.  The reason I think they're saying mentorship failed is not because we mentors failed in our duty, but that the mentoring process failed to bring about the desired result, that is a change in your communication style and the way you work with others on the site.  I think you are a well-meaning editor that would like to contribute; but you seem to spend a lot of this mentorship time worrying about Arbcom and telling us about everything they're doing instead of making edits.
 * Arbcom is the final authority on Wikipedia and I don't get the impression that they're being unfair. I think they're trying to keep the peace on Wikipedia while giving you a chance to make changes.  Please take what they have to say seriously - and if I were you, I would keep away from those articles that started this mess in the first place.  It's better to contribute in areas where your work will be appreciated and wont cause problems.
 * I wish you well, and I hope they let you keep editing. If they choose the 1-year site ban, I would highly recommend putting in some work at Simple English Wikipedia, that site needs help (and of course your native-language Wikipedia).  -- Kraftlos  (Talk | Contrib) 10:42, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Articles for Creation Appeal

 * FYI, we have a greate AFC helper script (located at User:Timotheus Canens/afchelper4.js). It helps you in reviewing submissions, e.g: it informs the submitter, it creates talk pages (when submitting), update /recent (when submitting), etc. Simply include it in your skin.js and hit review at the top (similar to twinkle). Regards, mabdul 12:48, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Your review at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/AVANCE

 * HI there - thanks for your additional comments on how to rework the profile. I've made changes, which hopefully will make it more neutral in tone.Fbell74 (talk) 01:12, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

Hedgehog
Hi Kraftlos, Thx for your time in reviewing my article. i understand your concern about Hedgehog not being notable enough, but as a Beijing resident of 5 years i can assure you that the band has always been an important key anchor in the city's independent music scene. Unfortunately, I'm unable to read Chinese, so can't refer to those sources to back up my claim.

I was very surprised when i realized a year ago that there is no page for Hedgehog, but there are pages for Chinese bands who are less significant and much less popular. Would it be useful to cite City Weekend articles where 1) Hedgehog is the first listed of 2011's best bands, or 2) Hedgehog is the 2nd listed of Beijing's best bands past and present?

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/articles/blogs-beijing/the-beat/the-year-in-rock-hottest-bands-of-2011/

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/articles/blogs-beijing/the-beat/local-rock-101-beijing-bands-you-should-already-know-about/

Thanks for your time, i appreciate it. I'm still getting to know the ins and outs of Wikipedia.

William (citrusconcept) Citrusconcept (talk) 08:49, 4 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hi Citrustconcept. The main problem here isn't that there are no sources in English, it's just that Wikipedia articles are built on reliably independent coverage from third-party sources.  That cityweekend can probably count as one reliable source, but the coverage in those two articles is pretty short. It would be better if you could find longer newspaper-style articles that are specifically about the band either from a newspaper or reliable online publication.  You might also want to look at WP:BAND and WP:RS if you haven't already.  Feel free to message me here if you have more questions!  -- Kraftlos  (Talk | Contrib) 08:01, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/David R. Fett
Hello Kraftlos,

Thank you for reviewing the recent article I submitted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/David_R._Fett As the article has not been accepted, I would like to ask you a few questions to see whether I can improve it for re-submission.


 * 1) Regarding the "reliable" citing sources: If we cite the bullet-pointed research papers in Fett’s “Publications” section, would this be adherent to citing “independent” and “reliable” sources? Fett’s research has been published in accredited science and medical journals and abstracts for most of them can be found online.
 * 2) If there are any other advice you can provide on creating "reliable" and "independent" sources I would appreciate it very much.
 * 3) I noticed that the original "Reference List" I submitted was reduced almost half. Does that mean that the ones that have been deleted are not to be submitted again?

Thank you for your time and looking forward to hearing from you.

--Jae825 (talk) 00:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello Jae825, The references I removed were all links to other Wikipedia articles - which should be placed as WikiLinks in the main text of the article, but cannot be used as a reference for content to your article. Wikipedia articles are considered tertiary sources, that is a source complied from other sources, sources like scholarly journals and newspaper articles are secondary sources and things written by the subject would be a primary source.  Wikipedia articles generally should only use reliable secondary and primary sources to fill in the gaps. In the case of establishing notability you should only be using secondary or independent sources that write specifically about the source.  Wikipedia articles cannot be used as sources.


 * Papers written by the subject are worth mentioning, but they would be considered primary sources. What you need are reliable sources talking about Fett that aren't connected to him - I recall there being an MIT allumni news source, but you'll need a couple more sources.  Anyway, I hope this advice made sense, please ask me if you need clarification. -- Kraftlos  (Talk | Contrib) 04:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

MOTDs (This space for rent)
You may have noticed over the past few days that the MOTD that you link to on your user page has simply displayed a red link. This is due to the fact that not enough people are reviewing pending MOTDs here. Please help us keep the MOTD template alive and simply go and review a few of the MOTDs in the list. That way we can have a real MOTD in the future rather than re-using (This space for rent). Any help would be appreciated! –p joe f (talk • contribs) 11:15, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk #2: Articles for creation/David R. Fett
Hi Kraftlos,

It's been a while but thought I ask you some more questions.

I have all the links/sources that show his published works but I am having a bit of a hard time finding "secondary sources" that relate to Dr. Fett's background and/or his practice as a doctor, even though his accomplishments are pretty impressive. I did find a several website that mention his name as a donor/alumni, which I indicated below. But i anticipate that it won't be enough? But I did find a few sources on the novel "White Sleeper" he wrote - an interview, review, etc. I decided to send you the links of these secondary sources to make sure that they can be considered as reliable independent sources, before I resubmit the article. Please let me know what you think. Thank you in advance!!

Google Books

Giving Donors/MIT

Conversation with David R Fett on his book "White Sleeper" | Book Pleasures

"White Sleeper" Book Spotlight | Book Marketing Buzz

--Jae825 (talk) 07:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello Kraftlos,
 * Thank you for reviewing the recent article I submitted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/David_R._Fett As the article has not been accepted, I would like to ask you a few questions to see whether I can improve it for re-submission.
 * 1.	Regarding the "reliable" citing sources: If we cite the bullet-pointed research papers in Fett’s “Publications” section, would this be adherent to citing “independent” and “reliable” sources? Fett’s research has been published in accredited science and medical journals and abstracts for most of them can be found online.
 * 2.	If there are any other advice you can provide on creating "reliable" and "independent" sources I would appreciate it very much.
 * 3.	I noticed that the original "Reference List" I submitted was reduced almost half. Does that mean that the ones that have been deleted are not to be submitted again?
 * Thank you for your time and looking forward to hearing from you. --Jae825 (talk) 00:46, 12 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello Jae825, The references I removed were all links to other Wikipedia articles - which should be placed as WikiLinks in the main text of the article, but cannot be used as a reference for content to your article. Wikipedia articles are considered tertiary sources, that is a source complied from other sources, sources like scholarly journals and newspaper articles are secondary sources and things written by the subject would be a primary source. Wikipedia articles generally should only use reliable secondary and primary sources to fill in the gaps. In the case of establishing notability you should only be using secondary or independent sources that write specifically about the source. Wikipedia articles cannot be used as sources.
 * Papers written by the subject are worth mentioning, but they would be considered primary sources. What you need are reliable sources talking about Fett that aren't connected to him - I recall there being an MIT allumni news source, but you'll need a couple more sources. Anyway, I hope this advice made sense, please ask me if you need clarification. --Kraftlos (Talk | Contrib) 04:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Articles for Creation urgently needs your help!
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WikiProject:Articles for Creation October - November 2012 Backlog Elimination Drive
 WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive WikiProject AFC is holding a one month long Backlog Elimination Drive! The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from October 22, 2012 – November 21, 2012.

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I might be back
I just spent an couple hours on here. Haven't done that in a long time. Am I back? Maybe. If only to chip away at that AfC backlog. -- Kraftlos  (Talk | Contrib) 12:38, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

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 WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive WikiProject AFC is holding a one month long Backlog Elimination Drive! The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from March 1st, 2013 – March 31st, 2013.

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Christianity newsletter: New format, new focus
Hello, I notice that you aren't currently subscribed to Ichthus, the WikiProject Christianity newsletter. Witha new format, we would be delighted to offer you a trial three-month, money-back guarantee, subscription to our newsletter. If you are interested then please add your name tothis list, and you will receive your first issue shortly. From June 2013 we are starting a new "in focus" section that tells our readers about an interesting and important groups of articles. The first set is about Jesus, of course. We have also started a new book review section and our own "did you know" section. In the near future I hope to start a section where a new user briefly discusses their interests.-- Gilderien Chat&#124;List of good deeds 20:59, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Tenmei → Enkyo2
Please notice the reasons for a username change here. A simple name change was done here --Enkyo2 15:59, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject AFC needs your help... again
 WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive WikiProject AFC is holding a one month long Backlog Elimination Drive! The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from July 1st, 2013 – July 31st, 2013.

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Dan Leno discography
Hi, I see you reviewed the above article. Please delete this old new article request. I have since made Songs, sketches and monologues of Dan Leno a featured list. Thank you. --  Cassianto Talk   17:23, 15 August 2013 (UTC) ：Ah, good to hear. Usually we just leave those old pages there for record. No one will likely do anything with it now that the article exists under a different name. Thanks for telling me though! Good to see articles reach Featured status! -- Kraftlos  (Talk | Contrib) 08:58, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Pipe in your sig
If you change the | in between the "talk" and "contribs" part of your signature to |, you won't have problems with afc submission. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  03:38, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh! Thanks.  That was getting annoying. -- Kraftlos  (Talk &#124; Contrib) 03:53, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

AfC Article
WHAT?!?!?! are you kidding me?!?!?! you have pages for espn Friday night fights, boxing after dark, etc. name ONE of these pages that is more significant. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Boxing_television_series this series has WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP FIGHTS on a regular basis. how are world championship fights not notable?? it's on tv in several countries and the last airing had half the tv sets in Norway alone tuned in. you are HIGH!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.98.204.251 (talk) 06:22, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi, I notice you don't have an account here so I'm assuming that you're fairly new to Wikipedia. Notability has a different meaning on Wikipedia than it does in general usage. In Wikipedia "A subject is presumed notable if it has received significant coverage by reliable independent sources."  So despite how well known something might be (or in the case of TV, how good its ratings are, how significant its subjects are, etc), it is only suitable for inclusion on Wikipedia if it has this coverage.  You make a case for notability by finding sources that have discussed your article's subject in detail (not just a passing mention).  I hope this helps.  -- Kraftlos  (Talk &#124; Contrib) 08:19, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Cameron Caldwell (politician) for deletion
This relates to an AfC submission that I edited and you approved.

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Cameron Caldwell (politician) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Cameron Caldwell (politician) until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 14:30, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

October 2013 AFC Backlog elimination drive
 WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive WikiProject AFC is holding a one month long Backlog Elimination Drive!

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A new version of our AfC helper script is released! It includes many bug fixes, new improvements and features, code enhancements, and more. If you want to see a full list of changes, visit the changelog. Please report bugs and feature requests there, too! Thanks. --Mdann 52 talk to me! This newsletter was delivered on behalf of WPAFC by EdwardsBot (talk) 15:12, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

List of Data Cleansing Companies addition to Data Cleansing page
Hi,

Based on your recommendation, I went ahead and added our list of data cleansing companies to the parent page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_cleansing. It appears the addition wasn't approved; could you give me some assistance as to how I should approach this? Thank you so much!

Endreakosven (talk) 17:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)Endrea Kosven

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Clinical Physiology
I think this is now ready to go, as a stub. Bearian (talk) 22:47, 24 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I moved it to Clinical Physiology. Bearian (talk) 22:49, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive
 Hello, Kraftlos:

WikiProject AFC is holding a two month long Backlog Elimination Drive!

The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from December 1st, 2013 – January 31st, 2014.

Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the drive's page and help out!

A new version of our AfC helper script has been released! It includes many bug fixes, new improvements and features, code enhancements, and more. If you want to see a full list of changes, visit the changelog. Please report bugs and feature requests there, too! Thanks. EdwardsBot (talk) 09:14, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) at 09:14, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on changes to the AfC mailing list
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WikiProject Articles for creation March 2014 Backlog Elimination Drive
 Hello Kraftlos:

WikiProject AFC is holding a  month long Backlog Elimination Drive!

The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from March 1, 2014 to March 31, 2014.

Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.

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A new version of our AfC helper script has been released! It includes many bug fixes, new improvements and features, code enhancements, and more. If you want to see a full list of changes, visit the changelog. Please report bugs and feature requests there, too! Thanks. Posted by on 02:12, 28 February 2014 (UTC) using MediaWiki message delivery (talk), on behalf of WikiProject Articles for creation

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Notification of a June AfC BackLog Drive
 Hello Kraftlos:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a  month long Backlog Elimination Drive!

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Copyright checks when performing AfC reviews
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Ichthus: January 2012
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My return to editing
I've just started editing again at random. I have a mind to resume work on the old anime articles I was working on years ago. I've trimmed down my watchlist from like 1000 articles to about 300, I re-inserted myself at WP:Anime, hopefully not stepping on anyone's toes but I figure since I was involved with assessment for a number of years there that I should probably continue to help guide that section of the project. This is nostalgic! --09:57, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

New Usercheck
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Please join us for our Cascadia Wikimedians annual meeting, Saturday, December 23, 1 PM
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Seattle Wiknic 2018
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Wikipedia Day 2019 — curating images from Asahel Curtis and older Seattle photos
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Women’s History Wikithon, Washington State History Museum, Saturday 3/9
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Art+Feminism, Jacob Lawrence Gallery, Saturday, April 6th, 1-5 PM
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Seattle Wiknic 2019
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Great American Wiknic virtual edition 2020
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Please join us for our Cascadia Wikimedians annual meeting, Monday, December 23, 5:30pm PST
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Writing Black History of the Pacific Northwest into Wikipedia - Editathon 2021
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May 2022 Seattle meetup
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"List of Sonic X characters" listed at Redirects for discussion
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March 2023 Seattle meetup
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