User talk:Kranar drogin/Archive 2

Re: Question for you
Hmm.. if you are referring to http://www.oregonil.com/images/about-history.jpg, the images are old, but they don't appear to be in the public domain (as in, created before January 1, 1923), so they would have to be used under the fair use doctrine. The problem I see with this is that it is not clear the actual "source" of the image, in other words, who took the images, or from where the site got them. Knowing the source allows us to know if we can use them here (the site could have payed royalties for the images to display them). Also, you would need to crop it, which most times fair use does not recommend (one can resize an image down, but cropping modifies the original image). Personally, I do not recommend using them. See if you can use images found at Category:Oregon in Wikimedia Commons, or ask the site keeper from where he got the image and if he is able to release them under a free license (if the images were taken by a grandparent, in example). If you need more specific information, you can ask at Fair use too. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 03:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, books are fine enough. You may find cite book handy when referencing from a book. Just don't copy a lot verbatim, only as minimum as necessary (in example, quoting the words the founder said is fine, but copying a full page of the book is not). You can even quote books you own and are published (as in, not written by you ;-)), even if you can't find an online copy. The same with paper encyclopedias, newspapers, etc, as long as you give as much detail as possible (title, chapter, page, ISBN, author, publisher, year, etc) so that anyone would be able to identify the media if he had it. As for the images from the book, if the book has been published before 1923, you can actually copy its contents (including its images). If it had been published after (as the book you gave me as example), then you would be able to scan or copy images from there, but you would only be able to claim fair use for it (again, giving as much information about the image location as possible). Fair use claims in historical images is usually stronger than new images because they are harder to reproduce. Just remember not to use images too big, a 1600x1200 image that will be displayed in a 200 pixel rectangle in the article is abusive, resize it down to 640x480 or lower, unless you absolutely need such big size (in example, a fair use image comparing the body segmentation of several insects). -- ReyBrujo 05:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm... no, I do not remember any "standard" for these templates. It is very likely the template was copied from another template (that is usually the way templates are born). There is an inactive proposal at Navigational boxes, and Navigational templates has some information about them, but there are no "rules" at all. If the template becomes too big, you may consider a dynamic navigation box to hide some parts of it, although this is not very used. Personally, navigational templates must act like an index, suggesting articles closely related to the current article, presenting them in a logical way. In example, grouping the cities alphabetically, or grouping comic characters according to their alignment. So, grouping them according to population is valid, although it may be inconvenient for casual readers (a casual reader may remember the city name but not the population, and will have to read all the template, whereas an alphabetically sorted template would make things much easier for him). An example: a rock band template may have links to the members and former members of the band, released albums and singles, but it is not likely to list concerts or tours. The singles would be sorted either alphabetically or chronologically, but they would not be grouped in "decades" or by "label". Throwing information like "points of interest", "hospitals", "higher education", etc, is adding information that is not likely to be used by a reader. Think it in this way: Algonquin Commons is situated in Algonquin, Illinois. However, because of the navigational template, it will be also "suggested" in an article of a city very far from it, just because it is in the same state. It is not different to suggest someone reading about the Statue of Liberty to check State University of New York because it is in New York too. In the case of New York, they don't list every point of interest, but instead they link to a "list of" in the "Topics" section of the template. -- ReyBrujo 13:27, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Recently there was a similar situation in the mailing list. You can find it here. Basically, a WikiProject began creating disambiguates articles although there was no need. However, in the specific situation you described, check here:
 * "The canonical form for cities in the United States is City, State (the 'comma convention'). Those cities that need additional disambiguation include their county or parish (for example Elgin, Lancaster County, South Carolina and Elgin, Kershaw County, South Carolina).

A United States city's article, however, should never be titled simply 'city, country' (e.g 'Detroit, United States')."
 * Note that, unless there is a need for disambiguation, the County is not needed. In the given example, the County is added because there are two Elgin cities/towns in the same state, thus they are disambiguated through the County. Marion, Illinois exists, and according to this guideline, it should be moved to Marion, Williamson County, Illinois, converting Marion, Illinois into a disambiguation page. However, the exception is if this Marion in Williamson is much more notable than the Marion in Ogle, in which case it may be justified to keep it at the current page. Or, if the true name of the Ogle township is "Marion Township".
 * Well, that was a lot of babbling. To shorten this: I think it is correct. If people continue to complain, you can always ask at WikiProject United States, which should be the parent WikiProject of WikiProject Illinois. -- ReyBrujo 22:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Rating? Hmm... that depends. Personally, I think it is a mature Start or a very young B one. However, usually a B article can be sent to Good articles to convert it into a Good article, but this article appears to be too short and centric to be given a GA rating, so I would say it is a Start. Once it expands its focus (expanding history and current situation, and adding a section about why it is important to have its own article in Wikipedia other than its monetary value), it could reach a B class. You can also check Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment, which gives some insight about how to measure articles. -- ReyBrujo 18:47, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Done, I temporary delete your new article, moved the old article in the new position, and restored the delete revision, merging your changes with the existing article. You can also use db-history to ask for the first admin available to do the history merge himself. Most times, though, admins would delete your new article and move the old article there, especially if you can reproduce your changes with little effort. -- ReyBrujo 03:46, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Since Brooklyn, Saint Clair County, Illinois had only two edits (one made with a copy/paste because the user tried to do a "move", and the other from a bot), I just redirected the article, since the information found in this one was already in the original one. -- ReyBrujo 05:22, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not answering the previous question, since you put them all in the same old question, sometimes I just forget :-) Regarding making Rockford, Illinois an A article, in order to make it you need to create a very solid good article, an article that may have some possibilities of reaching featured status. So, I suggest reading both those pages. From what I see, the article would not pass a Good test because it lacks references. A casual reader may ask "is this real, or some editor just invented it?", so you should provide references whenever possible. It is not necessary one per sentence, but at least a couple per paragraph. Concentrate in sourcing everything if possible. While not having images may not stop an article from raising its status, lack of references is too serious to dismiss. You can request feedback at Requests for feedback and Peer review (peer review is usually for very matured articles that are going to be sent to Good or Featured reviews, while requests for feedback is some more casual). Now, about La Salle County, Illinois and LaSalle County, Illinois, if the later is the correct spelling, you should move (every article has a "move" tab, just like the "edit this page" one) the article from the former to the later. Now, there are some restrictions when moving: you can't move an article if it is protected against moves by administrators, or if the target article exists and has a history. If you check the history of LaSalle County, Illinois, there is only one edit, to create a redirect to La Salle. This is the only case when the article can be overwritten. In other words, you should go to La Salle County, Illinois and press the move tab. Choose LaSalle County, Illinois as target page, and add a comment about why you are moving it. There should also be a check to move the talk page (don't forget to tick it too!). Finally, accept, and the page should be moved into the new location. If it is not possible (maybe because the redirect was created before the ability to overwrite redirects was included), just tell me and I will delete the redirect so that you can move it freely. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 01:41, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * To fix redirects, most people use AutoWikiBrowser (AWB). I have never used it (only works on Windows), but it seems useful. Note that redirects are not bad. The only ones you should really fix are double redirects (a redirect that goes to a redirect that goes to the article, since MediaWiki cannot handle "two jumps or more", when the user clicks in the link, it stops in the second link instead of the linked article). You can leave the changes for the future. -- ReyBrujo 02:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I think I fixed all of the main space links to La Salle County, Illinois. Links on user pages and talk pages usually don't get fixed. Hopefully that resolves the spelling problem. --Dual Freq 23:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Kane County Townships
I checked before I named the articles. There are no duplicates.Racepacket 02:26, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Most textual references to the townships do not include county names, so if we go with the county name in the article, it would require a lot of pipes. Perhaps you can move your township pages so that they drop the county names.Racepacket 04:08, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Illinois Historic Places
I'll take care of those three. I try to clean some up, like Greenville Public Library, as I come across them but if you see ones that need cleaned up don't hesitate to send them my way. They go to my to-do list and when I am bored I always poke around on my to-do list.A mcmurray 00:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Rodden, Illinois
Thanks for your response & those extra links. Well I haven't looked that hard :). Basically I ran google searches using "Rodden, Illinois"; Rodden, Illinois; Rodden, IL; History of Rodden.  I didn't find too much there - maybe enough for a stub but that's it.  I've driven through the area that seems to be called Rodden (very beautiful by the way).  There seems to be an inn - Inn At Irish Hollow - that lies within the area of "Rodden" but it uses a Galena address.  I'm assuming everyone in the area of Rodden probably just associates themselves with Galena, but according to some sources, may actually be in Rodden.  Also the United States Postal Service doesn't list Rodden when you do a search but several sites list Rodden of having a zip code of 61041 (shared with Hanover).  So that's what I have.  Whatever anyone else has would be good to know.  If someone local knows of somebody that's got historical information on Rodden they might want do an interview (interviews are sources or the info can be published to a website). Whatever though - I would find any information super helpful. Let me know what else you come across. Chupper 16:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but USGS GNIS lists it as a placename, but doesn't define an area or size. Looking at the aerial photo, it looks like about 3 or 4 houses. I usually just mention this sort of thing in the township article, like Elizabeth Township, Jo Daviess County, Illinois. That might be the only place it needs to be mentioned unless its notable in someway. --Dual Freq 16:47, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Kranar drogin. I think that last comment you left "THere is nothing in here that states that you can not create the page for it. If you search the web hard enough, I am sure you will find someone who has done a paper on it or something, i have found some pretty amazing things on little known areas of Illinois. Other states give unincorporated villages their own articles, I don't see why Illinois can't do the same. --Kranar drogin 19:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)"meant to be thrown on Dual Freq's talk page?  I do agree, I think an article should be created.  I'll be searching the net more and more to see what I can find. Chupper 19:59, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I concur. And would say to that just about any settlement is notable enough for an article.A mcmurray 20:47, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * And if they were a "ghost town",A mcmurray would be the one to ask. Even though on that list, there doesn't seem to be one that is near me. I will have to investigate it a little more.--Kranar drogin 20:53, 11 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I've created the article. Let's continue the discussion over there if possible.  Chupper 22:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Township page
I added your current todo list to WikiProject Illinois/Townships. --Dual Freq 03:49, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

To do
Yeah, that would be fine, if you don't mind sticking them in the right spots, I tried to organize it the other day, just by classification and project and stuff, you'll see it.A mcmurray 03:53, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Vandalism Issues
First of all, administrators can block users, but this is a preventive measure, and not a punitive one. In other words, we block to prevent further damage and not to punish past behavior. Now, whenever you revert vandalism, you should warn the user. Do this by adding a test1-n, test2-n, test3-n or test4-n with the article name and your sign, like in  - ~  or similar. this will leave a notification in their talk page that their edits were reverted because they were found unhelpful. Usually you start at test1 or test2, but note that admins don't usually block until they have received a test4 and the user continued vandalizing. If it is a very serious vandalism (in example, adding libel information, moving pages to incorrect names, etc, you can use the bv-n template, which is effective a test4 warning (so, use it sparingly). If the user continues to vandalize after the final warning, you can report him at WP:AIV, where an administrator will review the matter and block if necessary. Note again that reports of users who had not been warned during the same day are dismissed. Since blocking is not punitive, you can't "accumulate" warnings, in other words, if the user got a test1 warning two days ago and vandalized today again, he must get a new test1 one, and not a test2, because we must assume he is a different user (in example, a dynamic ip) even if it is obvious he is the same. Usually users stop after getting to test3 or test4. If he abuses the system, in example, disrupts until a test3 or test4 and then stop, but does that again on a next day, he can be blocked due disruption (not because he has done that in the past, but instead because the more he repeats this behavior, the higher the possibility of repeating that in the future (thus, blocking becomes preventive).

So, whenever you revert something, remember to warn the user. There are more warnings for different types of behavior (in example, blanking pages gets different warnings than doing personal attacks); you can find them here. A WikiProject is changing the warning templates, however you should always have the test family, blank (blank1-n .. blank4-n), blatant vandalism bv-n and personal attack&mdash;note that personal attack warnings start at level 2 because they are considered worse than vandalizing articles, so you have npa2-n, npa3-n and npa4-n). Learning when to warn and which templates to use becomes second nature. One thing: sometimes vandals will come deface your user or talk page, or articles you work with, which may stress you. In these cases, just revert the vandalism and add a note at the article talk page warning about vandals currently working on, to let other users know about that. Of course, you can drop by here and I will check them out.

For now, I will keep both articles in my watch list and deal with the vandals if necessary.

Finally, as you spend time in Wikipedia, certain tools become more useful. You can consider checking popus, a javascript script that gives user different abilities (in example, previewing the page by hovering a wikilink, or reverting to a previous version with one click). They may help you revert vandalism faster. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 22:18, 16 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Just go to his talk page, and add the warning, saving the page. Every ip (in example, User:200.200.200.200) has an associated talk page (like User talk:200.200.200.200). Note that in some cases they are shared ips, so there may be plenty of warnings already there. I also suggest to add a welcomeip template before the warning, in case the user was just testing around. The welcomeip template gives information about where to test, creating an account, etc. Ah, and never forget to substitute these templates, as in Some page, ,  , etc. And always sign, it is considered impolite to leave warnings without signing them :-) Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 03:29, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Townships
Well, yes and no as far as a standard existing. There is no official Wikipedia-wide naming convention for townships, but WikiProject Ohio townships has adopted the Township, County, State version as their official standard with Township, State to be either a redirect if there is but a single township with that name in the state or a disambiguation page if there are multiple townships with that name in the state. Hope that helps. My edits were prompted by a visit to the Elk Grove Village, Illinois article, and I'm not likely to make any further edits to Illinois township articles. Caerwine Caer’s whines 04:59, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Delete image
Done per I1 (redundant image, exact copy of another existing one). Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 02:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Apparently another administrator took care of it. Check the different criterias for speedy deletion. When the article appears to be non notable (according to our notability guidelines (find the applicable one), you can add a notability tag to the article. If you think the article should be deleted but have little time to create the deletion discussion, think the article could be given some time to fix before asking deletion, or want to go easy on a new user, you can propose its deletion with the prod template ( The article fails our notability for persons. in example). After five days an administrator will check the article and delete it if the users did not fix the article to a good standard. If the prod tag is removed or if you think an article must be deleted and want the community to discuss about it, create a deletion discussion (check Articles for deletion for the three steps needed to send an article to AFD). If you are completely sure the article must be deleted, you can use any of the speedy deletion tags. The most commons are:
 * db-bio (when the article is about a person with no claim of notability, in example, "John Generic Bob is the best Xbox player of the world", "John Generic Bob wrote many books, I will write the list later", etc);
 * db-spam (if the page is filled with spam links, in example, "Buy Viagra", or if it is a blatant advertisement of a company, like "The company is the best one you will find around. Buy our products, and receive a free subscription to this magazine. Contact us at 555-5555.", etc);
 * db-inc if it is about a non notable corporation ("XYZ is a paper company situated in California.");
 * db-copyvio (if it is a blatant copyvio, in example if someone copied and pasted a text from Dragonlance Nexus, remember to add the url as parameter of the template to hint the administrator from where the text was picked); and
 * db-attack (when the page is created only to attack the subject, in example, "John Generic Bob is an idiot", "XYZ is a fraud, don't buy their products", etc).
 * It is important to note that if the article makes a notability claim that makes sense, it cannot be speedied, and it should be proposed for deletion either with the prod procedure or through AFD. Check again the notability guidelines to see some of the claims that are accepted. When in doubt, send the article to deletion through WP:AFD, where administrators will speedy delete it if it is applicable. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 01:40, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I can't help with Kendall County, Illions, as it does not fit any speedy criteria from what I see. You should either redirect it to the correct template, or request its deletion through Templates for deletion. Sorry. -- ReyBrujo 04:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Not to be a jerk. But aren't the rules meant to be ignored if they get in the way of improving the wiki. I mean, this is an obvious spelling error and there is another template, correctly spelled, with the same information. Wouldn't not speedily deleting just be unnecessary beaurucratic (sp) nonsense? After all, ignore all rules, right?A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 08:38, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have no idea. I put a message on the creators talk and see what he comes back with, if it was intentional to spell it wrong and whatnot.--Kranar drogin 14:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't think of any reason why it would be spelled wrong on purpose.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 14:37, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Springfield
Springfield seems to be going well. This is good, I'll keep at.A mcmurray 14:52, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * This isn't all about Sprungfelder but its easier to just post here. Sounds good with the historic places. I use the list of Illinois places a lot but that doesn't tell me what needs cleaned up. I noticed Elkman has been doing a lot of clean up work on the National Historic Landmarks in Illinois, I started that project to with Robie House and Farnsworth House, originally. With the two of us on it should be no prob. May want to let him know about our little Springfield project. It's funny because the more we get done on that article the more it seems like I find we have to do, which, incidentally I put a to do list on that talk page. Too long already. Thanks for the note about historic places. Later.A mcmurray 01:17, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note. I've been doing work here and there with WikiProject National Register of Historic Places, so I've done various things with infoboxes, cleanup, and so on.  I've been doing Illinois lately because I noticed that there have been several articles within List of Registered Historic Places in Cook County, Illinois that appear as redlinks, but that Wikipedia actually has articles for.  So, I've been doing the searching and relinking to correlate the existing Illinois articles with their entries on the list.  If you check out the project page, you'll find some of the resources we've been using.  In particular, the National Register Information System has a searchable list of all the places on the National Register.  I downloaded that database and put together an infobox generator, which you can find on my site.  Between that kind of cross-referencing and writing new articles, there's plenty of stuff to do on the National Register project.  I'll keep an eye on what's happening on the Illinois pages, but A mcmurray is doing a heck of a job on them already.  --Elkman - (Elkspeak) 03:56, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * That generator is awesome.A mcmurray 01:12, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Population changes
THE LINKS ARE 2005 ESTIMATES; ACCURATE ONES; I HAVE LINKS.

Change them back, thanks

btowco11

Spammer, DeKalb
I know you saw the spammer I am having trouble with on the DeKalb article. Could you get some people from WikiProject Illinois, maybe Dual Freq and some others to help me explain to User:JazzButcher why the arcade cannot go in the DeKalb article, once we have consensus on the dekalb talk page I can report it as obvious spam and likely get him blocked. Any help would be appreciated, it is users like that which give Wikipedia bad name and cause it to be seen as entirely unreliable.A mcmurray 19:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Kranar.A mcmurray 20:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Reviewing
Sure, I'll get too it. I've been a bit slow on Wikipedia lately, but soon as I get into the swing of things again, I'll be back. Been neglecting the forums too...alas, the curse of having both a PS3 and a Wii! Woe is me, woe is me...  Dooms Day349  01:05, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Give me a full list and I'll review them ASAP.  Dooms  Day349  21:03, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

template
I didn't do it to slight you or anything, hope you didn't think that. I just thought it better on the talk page. Mostly because Springfield is probably a fairly popular article and to the average reader that would simply be distracting and confusing. Just my thought though.User:A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 02:11, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey
Hey Kranar, I know you are my WikiFriend (which i made up) but I snapped on JazzButcher, man I been drinking, I juat got mad, please dont think less of me and if anyone asks plz explain? Thnks buddy.User:A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 05:33, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

User:A mcmurray
It looks like this DeKalb thing has spun off into a new problem.diff Rklawton 05:35, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It is the same problem, I just get emotional, that's all. God help me if I have a few drinks, ya know, dont piss me off, i guess? hehe. yeah i am a jerk.User:A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 05:45, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I just kind of snapped I guess. I suppose it happens to the best of us. What was funny is that guy just laughed it off and offered to treat me to games at Star Worlds, lol. I've seen that place, the only memories it brings up are of the Korean DMZ. Hahaha. I took Lawton's advice and yours, I just unwatched the article.User:A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 22:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)


 * im not trying to bring you into a debate or anything. you dont even have to respond.  i just wanted to say that im not some kid who thinks hes invincible.  im some guy that just wants to see something that I VIEW as wikipedia-worthy get a small spot on the dekalb page.  i realize in some areas where im wrong, but still dont understand SOME of the accusations towards me and reasons as to why this isnt wikipedia worthy.  surely you can see how, when something says "attractions", one could think that an arcade like star worlds can get put into that section.  i dont think im invincible, i dont think that im always right.  im just trying to either change some minds or fully understand why people are trying to crucify me for this. JazzButcher 07:08, 27 February 2007 (UTC) PS sorry if some of this isnt so coherent.  im a little tired.


 * thanks, actually. i finally see why everyone is getting so wild about this topic and where i went wrong.  thanks for helping me to understand wikipedia in a civil way.  hopefully star worlds does something noteworthy soon so i can have my day and post it on wikipedia without worry.  thanks for the help.  JazzButcher 04:24, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Springfield, Illinois
I've uploaded a dozen or so Springfield area photos to Wikipedia. Can you send me a list of articles that could use illustration and a description of the types of photos you would like? I may have them already. And I wouldn't mind shooting those I don't already have. Rklawton 13:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Wikibreak
I may be away until next week (depending on the weather Friday), I'm not putting up a wikibreak template because of user page vandalism concerns. There are some other county templates I've added in the last couple days, alternatively you could create the template yourself if you need it before Monday. I just copy and paste anyway, not too sophisticated. Sorry if it holds you back from your township project. --Dual Freq 02:34, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Champaign County
I noticed your hard work on the township pages for Champaign County. I was impressed by your diligence! Nice work. :) --Strangerer (Talk) 09:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

GA
Yeah I have a few. Some I am just foregoing the interim ratings and using the peer reviews to bring them up to GA, hopefully. Oregon Commercial Historic District may be up to B. Ogle County Courthouse and Oregon Public Library will probably be B or GA once I finish them, as they are its probably start class. I'd have to dig through some of the stuff I have already worked on to get a really good idea though. I have a non-project related on, Executive Order 9835 but I don't know if it falls under any projects or not, especially those involved in assessments. I will get back to you though.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 14:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Reviewing
I dunno about the B-Class, it's not my area. I would take it to the WikiProject. I'm going to review all the other articles tomorrow, I'm a bit busy elsewhere right now.  Dooms Day349  15:49, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Kendall County Template
Yes, its a spelling mistake. Please go ahead and delete it. Thanks for asking. =) --Mjvan12 17:35, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Banditti
I wrote the article Banditti of the Prairie for the Illinois project, as an offshoot of Ogle County Courthouse, what I was wondering is if you could read it and see if you can think of any good photos. Maybe find some other sources, I have yet to hit up the library but I am going to. The article isn't finished yet, I have quite a bit more to add about the lynching, and I want to add some stuff about their early history. I will be searching some databases tonight for some information. It will likely be in a state that I am comfortable with submitting for DYK before the five day period passes. My concern is that after that I think it would make an excellent Good Article Candidate but without images that are related to it, it probably won't pass that standard. Anything else you could do to it would also be appreciated, try to make some notes on the talk pages if you do some stuff to it. Thanks ahead of time Kranar. Oh, btw, Oregon Public Library, Chana School and Ogle County Courthouse will all probably soon be up to GA standard, so in the next couple weeks I will be submitting those.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 04:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Kranar. You know I want images in there. Nothing on Google. I am going to check the library of Congress. If they have nothing I may have to see what they have at the Joiner History Room in Sycamore's Library and make some scans, other options would be the libraries in Polo and Oregon, as well as any historical society museums such as the one at the City and Town Hall in Rochelle.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 05:29, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Who are those people in that second photo/link? I don't think its the Banditti.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 05:30, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, would those last two links be considered reliable sources? I am iffy on them.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 05:32, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah! Once I get goin' I can't ever shut up. Heh. Thought I would let you know, Chana School is up for peer review, then again so is another of my articles Mission blue butterfly, which has nothing to do with anything but is a pretty good article.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 05:35, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Normal, Il
Could you and some other project members help me watch Normal, Illinois? It has been hit pretty hard by vandals lately.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 15:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Next collaboration(s)
After the Springfield thing is complete (which I have neglected of late but will get back into) I think the next collaborations, or set of collaborations, rather, should focus on the major public state universities. Starting with these (maybe two at a time): University of Illinois, Illinois State University, Southern Illinois University, Northern Illinois University, Western Illinois University, Eastern Illinois University and then, perhaps, Northwestern University. What do you think? They should be relatively easy to reference and find sources for expansion.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 15:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's whatever, both Bloomington, Illinois and Normal, Illinois, need some work, if you want to continue on some of the central Illinois region, I am sure Peoria, Illinois is probably the same. BTW, sorry I leave so many article unrated, I just don't feel comfortable rating an article I write.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 04:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the Peoria article looks like someone chewed on it. ; )A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 04:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah I have hung around FAC a bit, I don't think I am interested in joining the bitterness that seems to pervade it. I don't think GA is going to be a problem for Springfield, it would probably get it now, once all the citation tags are gone and some photos reinserted. Good night to you as well sir.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 05:02, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I am not particular. I had several candidates in mind. Peruse them. I will be doing my own improvements on some of these in time, either way they can be saved for future collaborations. I am from B-N originally so photos there will be no problem. I am not opposed to doing Rockford. These are just some other ideas.


 * Aurora, Illinois - Bloomington, Illinois - Champaign, Illinois - DeKalb, Illinois - Joliet, Illinois - Normal, Illinois - Ogle County, Illinois - Peoria, Illinois - Quincy, Illinois


 * Outside of Chicago and the Quad Cities, those are probably the more notable urban areas (not Ogle County of course) in the state, maybe including Urbana, Decatur, Carbondale. And the section of the state near St. Louis. All of the above need work, to varying degrees. Take a look, pass a list around, or better yet start a collaboration page where we can nominate and decide. IvoShandor 04:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * And, of course, no need to rush this. The template I made for all the current collaboration nominations could attract some people to the page who are regulars on those articles. I think we can take Springfield all the way. IvoShandor 08:40, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Templates done. Every project member notified on their talk page. : ) Template master of disaster IvoShandor

IvoShandor 11:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Re: Peer Review
Hi there. I will check it out later this weekend. -- ReyBrujo 17:03, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Reviewing
Hey man; I'm so, so sorry I haven't gotten to the articles yet. I've just been wickedly busy lately. I'll try for them sometime this week.  Dooms Day349  00:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

DeKalb County Courthouse
Thanks! That's three now. I knew I forgot to add it to the Historic Places page, ah well, I saw you got it. As for the serial comma, I usually use it if I think something might be confusing without it, otherwise, whatever. IvoShandor 11:25, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Jane
Anything that illustrates the debate regarding whether Jane is a Tyrannosaurus or Nanotyrannus. Rklawton 03:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Lake in the Hills neighborhoods
I saw you recently added a "needs citation/references" tag to the neighborhoods section of Lake in the Hills, Illinois. Much of the information would be hard to cite, but these neighborhoods do exist, as any one would see by looking at a map or driving past them. But I'm just wondering what specific things you doubt are true. If it's the home values or something specific like that that was the main issue, I can remove them. --Abog 18:00, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You fucking rule
As a former Rockfordian I am indebted to you. There are so few people in the Rockford area who know how to work a computer or have internet access; it's up to Stillman Valley pioneers such as yourself to do good things for Rockford. (PS- While the sentiments expressed herein are legit, I'm fuckin' drunk.)

Super Wash
I think that a chain that has over 700 locations merits mention.

Re: State Images
The Privacy Statement reads: "Information presented on the Secretary of State’s web site is considered public information and may be distributed or copied. Use of appropriate byline/photo/image credit is requested. We welcome suggestions on how to improve our web site and correct errors." So, the only limitation is that images should be credited when necessary. In other words, I see no problem. However, you can always send them a mail telling them you are planning on using the images in Wikipedia articles, and that you would like to know whether all images found in the site are indeed in the public domain (other than the occasional credit). If you upload them in Wikipedia, remember to add the links to the page and the image itself, so that they can be quickly found if necessary. -- ReyBrujo 04:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Ogle County
Kranar, I am not sure Ogle County even has a seal. If it does I can't find it online. Can you ask your local librarian there in Byron? Are the Ogle County laws and bylaws online? I couldn't find them? IvoShandor 03:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Btw if you have articles that need peer reviewed or assessed for B class, let me know, I do a lot of the assessment over at Good article candidates and have done quite a few helpful peer reviews, just FYI. IvoShandor 03:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Talk to User:Ruhrfisch, for sure knows who did it. That map is pretty kick ass. IvoShandor 20:02, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Illinois State Parks
Thanks for your request. I am not sure which of three possible templates you mean. The easiest for me to do would be the nav box at the bottom of the articles with the list of all parks in it, see Protected Areas of Pennsylvania (I did not make this one, though I have made a lot of edits to it). This is helpful because then you can see what are still redlinks and navigate easily among articles. I notice the list of IL state parks includes state forests and historic areas too. It might be good to decide if these should all be lumped together or not before starting on a nav box.

The next useful template is to add Infobox_protected_area to each park article. I also did not make this template, but I did make the map (Image:Pennsylvania Locator Map.PNG) and could make a similar for Illinois (I have also made one for North Carolina recently). This template has the locator dot built in. Ask if you have questions about its use.

The third template, and the only I did make is the interactive State parks of Pennsylvania map. I did not start on that until all the PA park articles and their infoboxes were already all done. I then just took the coordinates of the locator dot for each park from the article's infobox and added them to the map (I still had to tweak a fair amount as a map with 120 dots is more complicated than a map with one dot, but all the article dots and big map dots are at the same coordinates). It also uses the state locator map. I can help with this (not sure I have time to do another alone), but it doesn't make a lot of sense to do this until the park articles are all done. Hope this helps and ask about anything that is unclear, Ruhrfisch 23:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Ruhrfisch, I can make the Illinois navbox if you do the map. Let me know.  VerruckteDan 04:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Man, I did this thing awhile back, I think it's complete as a footer template. I think I posted it on the Illinois Project page but no one ever said anything about that I know of, this must of been in like October. I don't think I ever gave it a page, but I can if you think it's useful. IvoShandor 06:37, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I think we can use that. Go ahead and create it IvoShandor, and post the template link in the Physical Geography page. Thanks for the offer of assistance VerruckteDan. We are going to need the Illinois map on this template, and centering the name would make it look a litle better and have to add the Illinois flag.--Kranar drogin 10:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I created the template Ivo Template:Protected Areas of Illinois.--Kranar drogin 04:35, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

The protected area info box needs to go on the talk pages. Here it is. Messagebox protected areas Dincher 01:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I see others have been busy - thanks! I made an Illinois locator map and put it at the top of this section. It is also here Image:Illinois Locator Map.PNG. I tried adding the map to the infobox - it is 242 pixels wide, but the infobox expands it to 288 and it doesn't look as nice. I think I can fix it. Ruhrfisch 03:21, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I made the map 288 px wide and put an infobox with it in Argyle Lake State Park and it works fine. I added Latitude and longitude from www.topozone.com and put the locator dot in the correct place too. Didn't add the nav box as I was not sure it was a template yet. Ruhrfisch 03:54, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Man, that map sure does make it look nicer. Thanks for your help in this. I am hoping to stub out the articles soon, or if others are going to participate in it.--Kranar drogin 04:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I have included the template into Argyle. Thoughts on where that should be place? I think it should be above the county template, but may need to include the state flag into it.--Kranar drogin 04:39, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think the county navbox should remain on the page. The park is not a community or municipality of McDonough County and the navbox does not link to the park.  VerruckteDan 04:52, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome. I agree the county navbox is superfluous here. I added the state flag to the template's upper left corner. I can try to add the infobox to the rest of the existing articles. I take the dot locations and use them for clickable map. Should the clickable map be for all state run protected areas or just state parks? Ruhrfisch 11:24, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Might as well do it for all of them, unless you think it will become WAY too crowded. I think though, that Illinois is big enough, and most parks spaced enough that we should be ok. I would appreciate all the help you can give and putting in the infoboxes would be great. I will try and stub out a bunch of the others tonight if you would like to do those also. I have removed the county template, and added in just the Illinois protected areas. Also, moved the park category to one of the city.--Kranar drogin 11:28, 28 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You know, the more I look at that map, the more I like it. I am wondering if we should use that map and put those dots on it for all the cities, rather than like the ones we have now. Example Stillman Valley, Illinois. Just something to ponder I guess.--Kranar drogin 03:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The map can be used for city locations. Take a look at West Chester, Pennsylvania, which uses Geobox Settlement and the Pennsylvania locater map that automatically places the dot based on the lat/long.  User:Caroig used Image:Pennsylvania Locator Map.PNG and created the calibrated map and I've asked him to create a calibrated map for Illinois based on Image:Illinois Locator Map.PNG.  VerruckteDan 03:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for asking. Anyone else that is watching want a say in this? I just think it looks much more professional.--Kranar drogin 03:48, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The calibrated map is done (Geobox location Illinois). I've placed it on the Springfield, Illinois article for people to see it in action.  VerruckteDan 19:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

That certainly looks A LOT more professional than the red and black ones. Would you mind doing one for Bloomington, Peoria, and Rockford also? Those are the next ones that prolly will in some order be next on the list. Is that a new city info box that you put on Springfield there then? A geobox?--Kranar drogin 20:47, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, I would like to start using the Geobox Protected Area for them. Could one of you set that up for an example for me? The only part that I might have trouble with is the whole x and y area of it. Can we start with Argyle Lake State Park first? or should we just stick with the info boxes for these?--Kranar drogin 21:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I've been trying to resolve some issues with Geobox Protected Area before suggesting the switch from Infobox to Geobox. The big thing is that the Geobox converts from acres to hectares as opposed to sq km, which is the standard that has been used to this point.  Again, in general I like the Geobox, so once there's a decision on the units, I'd support the switch.  If the Geobox is used, the x and y parameters will not need to be used, as the coordinates will place the locator dot, taking out the trial and error of x/y values.  VerruckteDan 22:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Just so you know, the x & y coordinates for the locator dots are part of how I make the clickable map. Is there any chance User:Caroig would generate the coordinates and put them in as a comment in the Geobox so they could be looked up? My fear is that if the clickable map has to generate all the dot x & y coordinates from latitude and longitude it will be very slow or even choke (like the 120 plus convert templates in the List of PA state parks at one point, as Dan recalls). Ruhrfisch 04:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

First attempt
Here is my first attempt at creating a park stub Apple River Canyon State Park. Thoughts?--Kranar drogin 22:38, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good - I added a second sentence, the Topozone reference (two refs are better), and the locator dot to the map (and to the clickable map). I got the location in the county from here, which is a terrible map in terms of image quality, but good enough for placing a big red dot. It looks like there are a total of six state parks or protected areas (red pine tree symbols) in Jo Daviess County alone, so the dots may need to be smaller. Ruhrfisch 00:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I will do a few a night then, or if I have time, go through a bunch of them. For now, I have done another Buffalo Rock State Park & Effigy Tumuli.--Kranar drogin 02:06, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you plan to add the locator dots? I have done them so far, but would appreciate it if you would at least check them as I am not finding great IL maps online. Ruhrfisch 03:37, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to do that locator dot thing, but I am checking what you do.--Kranar drogin 03:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, check things like google maps, that is a real good one like here was one Apple River Canyon. Otherwise, use Google Earth, that is a REALLY good program.--Kranar drogin 03:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I tell you what, I am finding pretty much everything I need with Google Earth. I suggest getting it.--Kranar drogin 03:53, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. The problem with Google Maps (not Google Earth, haven't tried that yet) is that they do not show county borders and the locator map only has those to go by. Pennsylvania has very nice PDF county maps from PennDOT, which made that part of the job easier. Ruhrfisch 03:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, Google Earth shows the counties, you pick all the outlines and stuff that you want. I usually pick borders, roads, etc. It was VERY easy to find out where it was located, and then down at the bottom of the map it puts in the GPS coordinates. It was so easy, I don't know why I didn't use it before!--Kranar drogin 04:01, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I am starting to get on a roll with these, should be able to do a bunch tonight, depending on if Springfield goes up for review and gets a response. If you have time, could you start doing the dots for me Ruhrfisch? If you can't, no worries. I just want to be able to finish stubbing these, so I can finish the townships and precincts.--Kranar drogin 23:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I will work on them - am fairly busy but should get some done tonight. Thanks for the notice, Ruhrfisch 02:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, I was playing with Google Earth - it is very cool. Didn't put any locator dots in though. Tomorrow, sorry Ruhrfisch 03:24, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha, no worries. Google Earth is VERY addicting. It is neat to scroll around and look at places, so I TOTALLY understand. I got a bunch done tonight, hope to get the State Parks done, and then move on to the others.--Kranar drogin 03:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I got seven dots added and put them in the map too. Will do more over the next several days - have worked out a system so they go fairly quickly. Ruhrfisch 03:58, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Awesome! I am going to try and knock off some of the other parks too soon. I got all the State Parks done!--Kranar drogin 04:02, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey guys, I have started revamping the List of Illinois state parks page to look similar to the FL List of Pennsylvania state parks that you all did very nice job on. Any assistance you guys can give would be great, since you have experience in doing this.--Kranar drogin 11:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey Kranar, I'm thinking it may be better to have the different types of parks (state parks, state forests, recreation areas, etc) separated into their own tables. It may even be appropriate to discuss if the non state parks should be listed here given the name of this article.  Moving them to to own pages could be done, but I'd think the best solution would be to rename this article, List of protected areas of Illinois.  Such a title is a better description of the information presented and probably better than splitting the other units off into their own pages, as some of them would be very short and difficult to develop (for example a list of Illinois state forests would be sparse with only 4 forests).  VerruckteDan 12:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I applaud your efforts and agree with Dan, although you might want to either name the list List of state protected areas of Illinois (since no federal areas are currently included), or add the federal areas (i.e. Lincoln sites in Springfield, not sure what else). The PA navbox includes the Federal areas (as well as other areas not in the state park list, like the 20 state forests or the state scenic rivers). I think I might be able to do different color dots for different areas. You might want to think if this would be useful. Another problem we ran into with the PA state parks map was where to put the dot for long narrow parks (there are 4 in PA, one is the Delaware Canal State Park, about 60 miles long). I know there is the Hennepin Canal and at least one trail in IL. I usually put the dot on the border between two counties with the park. Also realize that for the PA list we had the centennial history and the park web pages for name and status changes (former names, former parks). If you don't have this information for IL, not sure it makes sense to add it. I will keep adding dots to make the clickable map. Keep up the good work, Ruhrfisch 15:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I like this idea better, List of state protected areas of Illinois. I will have to create that page soon, then we will include state parks.--Kranar drogin 03:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The more I think about it, as long as you made it clear that federal properties were excluded from the list, then I think that List of protected areas of Illinois would also be OK. I am fine with either - your call. Ruhrfisch 14:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I added more dots and more parks to the map tonight - the first two rows of state parks in the Protected Areas of Illinois nav box are done now. Ruhrfisch 04:35, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I also like that idea of different colored dots. Can't remember if I had already stated that.--Kranar drogin 04:59, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Ogle County Courthouse
I have another courthouse article just about ready to go to GAC, I think I am going to skip the peer review (didn't need it on DeKalb County). If you would be willing to give it a go over/copy edit and notify anyone who would be willing to do the same please do. Any other issues can be addressed on the talk page, of course, hopefully it's pretty good and there aren't any glaring problems. Any help is appreciated. Thanks again.

And will do on the template. IvoShandor 12:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Revived discussion concerning fair use in portals
I am contacting everyone who participated in the discussion that became inactive in December. Due to the length of the previous discussion, I have proposed a new amendment and you like you to weigh in so that we may actually have a consensus on this matter as it doesn't seem there exists one either way. -ΖαππερΝαππερ BabelAlexandria


 * Which, you know, of course, means that this proposed change is destined to fail. IvoShandor 08:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Daysville
I am trying to figure out where Daysville is, so that I may stub the red link in my current GAC, Ogle County Courthouse. Since you are from Ogle County, perhaps you can help.

Google maps, of course, sends us to Oregon. But it seems that Daysville Road runs through a small unincorporated community of the east side of the Rock River, south of Oregon. Google maps has labeled it "Honey Creek?" Is this Daysville? Does Daysville still exist? IvoShandor 08:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Geobox Settlement
Another user changed Springfield from Infobox City to Geobox Settlement (Geobox City redirects to Geobox Settlement). I'm an advocate for the switch, as I feel Geobox is far superior in its appearance, adaptability, and consistency with other Geobox templates (and of course the auto locator map). As of now there is not a concensus on the use of the Geobox over Infobox, so I've mostly been placing Geobox Settlement on articles with neither template. In a few cases, mostly cities that I'm more familiar with and more active in editing, I've done the switch and encountered no opposition. Currently, I'm watching cities with the Geobox to see what others think, so far there's been no reverting to previous versions and no one voicing any concerns, which I think is a testament to how well designed the Geobox is.

Anyway, I am more than happy to do the conversion for Bloomington, Peoria, and Rockford, especially with the support of a user in Illinois. I will make the changes before the end of the day. VerruckteDan 21:07, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You in most cases will not run into much opposition here. The daughter project of Illinois, WikiProject Chicago, might be a different case though. I can't speak for them, but I would do their cities slowly also if you plan on going into that area. For the majority of the rest of the state, I think that overall, opposition should be low if at all. There is really only about five of us that are active, and most of them monitor my page or the Illinois page so they are seeing what is happening. In the meantime, if you want a small county, Ogle County, Illinois is something I am working on to improve along with another Illinois member. Feel free to do all the towns/cities/unincorporated areas there.--Kranar drogin 21:22, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Bloomington, Peoria and Rockford are complete. VerruckteDan 22:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, thanks so very much!--Kranar drogin 22:36, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Tried to set up this village of Mineral, Illinois myself, but it doesn't seem the dot dropped. Figured I would help this guy make his page look a little better. Help a little Dan?--Kranar drogin 22:23, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Something happened to some coding somewhere on Friday that has affected the locator dot on all pages. Its driving me nuts, and I'm tunning out of ideas on where to check for the problem.  I'm hoping that Caroig will have some suggestions.  VerruckteDan 10:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The locator dots work again. VerruckteDan 11:16, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


 * How do I removed the double coordinates in the upper right corner? Also, I did Stillman Valley, Illinois, and they don't have a mayor, but it wouldn't let me change it to village president. What should we do about this?--Kranar drogin 10:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * For the double coordinates you need to remove the Mapit code at the bottom of the page (ex. ).  To change the leader from the default "Mayor", use the code "leader_type = ".  I made both of these changes to Stillman Valley.  Glad to help.  VerruckteDan 12:46, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

An article of interest
I found this article and thought you might be interested: "Cheese Region of Northwestern Illinois" by Loyal Durand, Jr. Economic Geography, Vol. 22, No. 1. (Jan., 1946), pp. 24-37.

The journal article is available via JSTOR, and probably other databases like FirstSearch and such, or in its printed format. I have a link to the JSTOR article but didn't know if you had a library or somewhere to access it, I can include it if you want. IvoShandor 15:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the Barnstar and all the work you've done on the townships. You seem to be doing most of the heavy lifting on that, so the least I could do is put some of the data in. --Dual Freq 21:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Illinois Townships
You've been busy crating township articles, did you figure out how to set up and run a bot? I noticed you're using Infobox Township, if you use Geobox Township, you could use the locator map. For the PA townships, I've been using the USGS Geographic Names Information System to get the official Coordinates so that the map can work. (they also list the elevation of the township). I changed Allens Grove Township, Mason County, Illinois for you to take a look at. I wasn't sure what to do with the original map showing Allens Grove's location, so I left it there. Let me know what you think. VerruckteDan 00:02, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * As of right now, I am not too sure about that map for the townships, simple because it doesn't show land or area size, just the location. Cities and other locations, I am all for, these I am having trouble with right now. Let me think about it some.--Kranar drogin 02:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Is there maybe a way to highlight an area for the townships or is that asking too much? This is another reason I have hesitated before adding the geobox townships in, simple because the townships are all almost done with the infobox, but I guess in the long run it would save time.--Kranar drogin 02:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I understand your point about showing the relationship of a township to the county, I considered that awhile with Pennsylvania, but since there aren't many maps highlighting individual townships within a county, I figured, it'd be an issue to come back to later. As someone not as fmailiar with Illinois geogrpahy, I also see the advantage of having the map locating the townships within the state as a whole.  A possible solution would be to incorporate all three maps into the geobox.  I'd even suggest changing the color scheme of the county map to match the Illinois and US maps.  Where are you getting your county maps?  Is it possible to have it show neighboring county boundaries?  I'm gonna modify Allens Grove again to see what you think.  VerruckteDan 02:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Alright, I just added the map and changed the color scheme to match the others. I like the colors, but really want the county boundaries too.  Anyway, let me know what you think.  VerruckteDan 03:07, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ooo, I do like that better. Well, I get the general map idea from Illinois Archives, then I redo them completely in paint. Redo the borders, remove the names, generally, just make my own maps. I do like this color scheme though. What would be the best way to do the rest of them that we haven't done yet? Maybe have you do the coloring?--Kranar drogin 03:24, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm looking into it, I've asked Ruhrfisch how he creates his maps, so once I hear back from him, hopefully I've have a good method for this. VerruckteDan 05:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. What I am going to do, is polish off the last two counties that I have maps already uploaded for. What if I were to create a blank county map for you, then you can change it to suite how we are creating the maps. I will then upload those with the townships I still have to create. The only problem I might run into are the precincts that we have left over. I have found one so far that doesn't have any names on the maps, so I will have to figure that one out a little better. I will change the template I use for townships though to the geobox.--Kranar drogin 05:21, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * That link you provided me up above isn't working....--Kranar drogin 05:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * With Havana Township, Mason County, Illinois, I wasn't able to get the coordinates. I at least started using the geoboxes, lol. And no about the bot, I do it all manually.--Kranar drogin 05:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The blank maps would be good. And here's a working link to the USGS.  .  VerruckteDan 05:45, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Ok, great thanks. Let me finish off these last couple I have to cross off the list, I will then create the blank maps, upload them into their appropriate categories (which I will make), then you can create the map and update it. You can either create the individual maps, or I can, it really doesn't matter to me.--Kranar drogin 05:48, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I actually had a blank one already of Clark County, Illinois and I put it in this cat Category:Maps of Clark County, Illinois.--Kranar drogin 05:52, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Found one problem with the geobox, minor though. It doesn't show the water percentage even if you plug in the number in the box. I just did Kilbourne Township, Mason County, Illinois as another test. I think if it looks for the most part good, I will just continue creating the articles in the morn. Thanks for all your help.--Kranar drogin 06:04, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I've added a parameter for % of water (| area_water_percentage = ). I'm also trying to make it compute automatically using the numbers from the area, but have not been able to get it to work yet.  VerruckteDan 17:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I feel really dumb now. All this time I was thinking that area round was the percentage. Now I realize it was rounding off the numbers. Sheesh.--Kranar drogin 17:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Caroig fixed the percentage issue. It can now be automatically calculated with a precision set for the decimal. See Springfield, Illinois for an example.

Your Edit of Lincoln, IL
The Norman Cook referred to in the Lincoln article is not Fatboy Slim a white man, but rather an African-American who played basketball at Lincoln Community High School, University of Kansas, and was drafted in the first round of the NBA Draft by the Boston Celtics in the 1970s. I plan to add Norm Cook back to the Lincoln page and add him to Lincoln Community High School. Kenallen 00:39, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Making maps
Here's how I make the maps - basically they are all from the Census factfinder web site here. I always use the 2000 census data and if I enter "Ohio", I get |b=50|l=en|t=420|zf=0.0|ms=ref_stat_00dec|dw=1.9557697048764706E7|dh=1.4455689123E7|dt=gov.census.aff.domain.map.LSRMapExtent|if=gif|cx=-1159354.4733499996|cy=7122022.5|zl=10|pz=10|bo=313:314:316:317:318:319:323|bl=354:355:356:357:358:393:362|ft=350:349:335:389:388:332:331|fl=381:403:204:380:369:379:368|g=01000US&-redoLog=false&-_lang=en&-_caller=geoselect&-geo_id=04000US39 this. Next I go to the upper left corner under "Change", click there on "Boundaries and Features" and turn off all labels and all features except the state and county borders (boundaries). Then I get |b=50|l=en|t=420|zf=0.0|ms=ref_stat_00dec|dw=10.50392852716582|dh=6.058983803831548|dt=gov.census.aff.domain.map.EnglishMapExtent|if=gif|cx=-82.66958249999999|cy=40.190285|zl=8|pz=8|bo=313:314|bl=|ft=|fl=|g=04000US39&-redoLog=false&-geo_id=04000US39&-_lang=en this. I copy the map (right click, or control and Print Screen) then paste that into MS Paint or Paint Dot Net and change the colors so they are consistent with the WikiProject Maps guidleines - I started with the Image:US Locator Blank.svg for its colors. I put a one pixel wide black line around the maps and save them in PNG format in Wikimedia Commons (I have an account there too).

What I like about the maps is that they are US Government work and so public domain (and I release my modifications under the GFDL). You can zoom in a lot, add streets and water and township and city borders in. Some other examples I have made starting with these are here: Image:Larrys Creek Watershed Map.PNG (started from county and township borders and creeks in the census map), Image:Fort Wayne Indiana Metro Map.PNG (several counties, left the urban areas pink), and my most ambitious county map Image:Lancaster County, PA.PNG. Hope this helps, ask if you have questions. Ruhrfisch 19:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

County Templates
Kranar, I noticed you were discussing county navigation templates with Dual Freq. You were unsatisfied with some conversion, perhaps similar to what was done today for Template:Cook County, Illinois. Either way, I wanted to let you know about a general template I made for counties. It has both the editing options to the right and an image in the left. Illinois templates seem to be using the state flag. Pennsylvania ones use the state map with the county highlighted. Anyway, here is the general template: Template:US county navigation box and an example of the end product: Template:Chester County, Pennsylvania. All Pennsylvania and Delaware counties use this, as do all existing NY coutnies (about 1/2 the counties haven't been created). VerruckteDan 19:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, most of our templates for Illinois can be found here WikiProject_Illinois/Templates. I like what we have for the most part, but I really would like to added in that edit stuff to them all rather than doing it manually. We also had some problems with a few people in the Chicagoland project wanting to have Points of Interest in them, but I tried to explain that it would take up to much room. So sometime I will have to convert those also, and move the points of interest to the county page. I suppose the map idea would be an option to bring up to the rest of the group, try and stay uniform with other states. Do you all put "points of interest" in your templates, or just the cities/townships and maybe an airport?--Kranar drogin 19:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * We don't use points of interest or anything, just municipalities and communities. I agree with you, that anything more makes the template too long and defeats the purpose of a clear concise nav template.  As for the map vs the flag, that's I agree that its up to the Illinois project to decide.  Pennsylvania originally used the county seals, but then the copyright police told us that copyrighted images can not be used in templates as decoration, so the decision was made to switch to maps.  VerruckteDan 20:09, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Huh, didn't know that a county seal could have a copyright since it was a government icon. I will bring it up and see what they say.--Kranar drogin 20:14, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * There's some Wikipedia policy about using them in templates somewhere. I got tired trying to fight it.  VerruckteDan 20:57, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Some things aren't worth it. Dual did two examples on the template talk page. I don't know if Illinois will look right going the small version. Can you make comments on that talk page?--Kranar drogin 21:00, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * For the seals it depends on whose seal and what their copyright policy is. Public domain only applies to U.S. Federal Government created works, state government stuff, at least in Illinois, is copyrighted. Usually the same for munipalities, counties and other political subdivisions as well, just so you know.


 * As for the list, I think I may have seen that once, how complete is it? Seems like it could be useful. IvoShandor 06:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Township maps
Hey, I'm gonna use this list to keep you updated on which counties I've updated the color schemes of maps.VerruckteDan 23:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * What I did, was move it to the WikiProject Illinois/Townships. If you could keep track there, then it won't be on my talk page and everyone can see what you are doing that are monitoring the township page. Thank you so much for doing that. I will try and upload the remaining maps over the next few days. I have to blank them out first, and I will let you know which ones I do. I always create their own category, as I am sure you have seen already. Any questions, let me know!--Kranar drogin 01:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Clickable Illinois state parks map started
I have started the requested clickable Illinois state parks map: State parks of Illinois map. So far it only has two parks on it, as only two park articles have the infobox and locator dot to use the coordinates. I left the locator dot at 7 pixels for now (Pennsylvania's dots are only 5 pixels wide). Ruhrfisch 02:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I think Illinois is big enough, and start parks are big enough that it shouldn't really be an issue. IT looks awesome! Are you going to update the existing parks then? If so, I will stub out the others if you want me to, or if you want to. Or if you don't want to do that at all, I will get around to it. I'm not too worried. Appreciate all the help.--Kranar drogin 02:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * In Pennsylvania User:Dincher made or expanded 106 of the 120 state park articles over about 3 months. It then took me about 6 days to make the map (added about 20 parks a day, some nearby parks had to be adjusted so that the dots were separate enough for clickability, and then I adjusted all the park dots too). I can work on adding infoboxes to the existing articles, but will only be able to do one or two a day usually, so making stubs and adding the infoboxes are both very useful things. I would try for the parks first, then see spacing and add the other protected areas. Thanks, Ruhrfisch 02:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

History of Peoria
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner; I took a break from Wikipedia to work on some other things. I'd rather not commit to working on the history of Peoria right now though since I'm not even close to satisfied with the progress I've made so far on the history of Springfield. I also think that there is more work that I can do to improve the Springfield article itself, as the issues IvoShandor has brought up are excellent. However, all of this is not to say that I don't have any interest; I just want to stay focused so that I complete what I've already started to the best degree. David H. Flint 16:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: Plainfield South High School
Hey there. A list of notable alumni is generally accepted if, indeed, the examples given are notable (actors, directors, politicians, etc). As for the other, I see someone created an article for IMEA. Is that notable enough? Personally, I don't think the information about the musicians is needed at all. Oh, also try to move IMEA to Illinois Music Educators Association, because abbreviations are discouraged as title names (because someone may want to search for Illinois Music Association and find nothing because the title is an abbreviature). -- ReyBrujo 16:05, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: The New Funk Order
Geez. I suggest either prod them per our WP:PROD procedure (they appear to be non notable per our WP:BIO guideline) or send then to WP:AFD directly. If you have any doubt, just ask again. -- ReyBrujo 21:48, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: Old Image maps
The images have been released under a free license, so if possible you should keep them (although you need to create a full index so that they can be found easily). If you want to delete them, I suggest sending them to Images and media for deletion, stating that the free image has been replaced for another free image. Since you are likely to replace many images with many others, you should create a single deletion nomination and group all the images you want deleted there. Also, in every obsolete image page you should leave a message stating "This image has been replaced for [another image]." (I remember there was a template for this, but can't remember which one). That way, the admin deleting the images will be able to check the replacement. However, as the images are free, they may stay anyways. -- ReyBrujo 19:42, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * If you have free images to upload you should do it at Commons, and see about moving other ones there too, that way anyone from any Wikipedia can use them. : )IvoShandor 04:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

RAOK
You earned and your welcome. Keep up the good work. I may be going for admin in the near future, I don't know, just FYI, also Chana School will soon be up for GA too. :) IvoShandor 10:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, and in case you didn't notice the courthouse article was promoted last night not too long after you bid adieu. IvoShandor 10:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Totally was. Awesome that is. IvoShandor 10:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * And that is FOUR IL and National Register of Historic Places articles I have gotten promoted now! Woot! Two projects, one article, and the puppet master behind it all, IvoShandor. Haha, Just kidding. I amuse myself pretty regularly, disregard any insanity babbling forth from my brain. : )IvoShandor 10:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Something else you have been doing good work on, I am too impatient to stub out things too much anymore, though one day I will finish List of Registered Historic Places in Illinois. Did you ever see the NRHP Frank Lloyd Wright Division, very IL oriented, you might be interested (set up by yours truly of course). It is a cross project collaboration btw architecture, NRHP and IL mostly, we have only 5 members so far, but from diff projects, no need to even be a member of the main NRHP project.


 * As far as Springfield, once its done, I am going GA and going to FA with it, which means I will be doing some major expansion soon, so watch for that.


 * And now, another point, ever thought about a WikiProject IL meetup, that might be kinda cool.

IvoShandor 10:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Do you have refs on the exact dates in the infobox for SPringfield? That's why I haven't nominated it yet, whatever you have should suffice. IvoShandor 06:29, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well certainly they came from somewhere. I don't care what the source is, as long as it isn't Bob's Home Page. : ) I say, let's blow Detroit out of the water.... oh yeah. IvoShandor 10:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Alright, nom is up, now all we have to do is wait a month. : ) The backlog over there is ridiculous. IvoShandor 12:19, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Re: Move
Done! -- ReyBrujo 05:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Since categories cannot be "moved", just create the correct one, and nominate the old one to speedy deletion with db under WP:CSD, like . Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 23:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

S-Town
Not yet, I was busy today. I think it is probably ready though, maybe a copy edit or two, but the process is so long it shouldn't be a problem to do it while it's nominated. I will post it tomorrow sometime, likely. IvoShandor 06:49, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Image:Cherry_Grove_Township_Carroll.PNG listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Cherry_Grove_Township_Carroll.PNG, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. BigDT 03:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, this was an image I uploaded before realizing that it was a combined township, I totally forgot to report it for deletion. As the author, I am asking it to be deleted now.--Kranar drogin 03:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Image:Lima_Township_Carroll.PNG listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Lima_Township_Carroll.PNG, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. BigDT 03:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, this was an image I uploaded before realizing that it was a combined township, I totally forgot to report it for deletion. As the author, I am asking it to be deleted now.--Kranar drogin 03:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You can also tag the image(s) in question with db-self. Ruhrfisch 03:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
Dear Kranar, Thank you so much for adding category in the article Skokie (Movie). Much appreciated. --Cyril Thomas 17:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Peoria
Yeah, I have been occupied lately, trying to get National Register of Historic Places up to FA. It was but a stub, really, and a crappy one at that, when I attacked it, a collaboration (kinda, not really, minor edits here and there by a couple people). I have stubbed about half of those articles, I will get the rest asap. : ) IvoShandor 13:17, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Woe is me. That article needs some work. I have a few pretty decent sources on hand, not sure but I think I can get to it this week. IvoShandor 08:18, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Only three to go: here, and I added one. Though you'll want to lose those lists eventually, for GA and beyond. The stubs are quality too, with a good source in the notes for expansion on each of them. I went ahead and cleaned up Pere Marquette Hotel, Madison Theatre and Peoria City Hall as well, adding infoboxes, correcting information and general copy editing for grammar, style etc. I will probably finish the last three stubs after midnight. IvoShandor 22:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Done, whew, that was tedious. I will certainly get to those other tasks, writing that section into prose and working on the History of Peoria asap but I am occupied with some other Wiki tasks right now so I am just not sure when I will be able to do it. Look for some upcoming IL GAs from me, right now Chana School is up for GA, and soon University of Illinois Experimental Dairy Farm Historic District. IvoShandor 12:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I can do that, but I am not exactly sure what you are requesting. Please clarify. : ) IvoShandor 15:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Roger that. Chana school is the 6th one down on the architecture category, don't know why he couldn't find it, it was there. At WP:GAC. IvoShandor 00:56, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Oops. Fixed. IvoShandor 01:02, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, beyond some expansion, I need to make sure it meets all the other GA criteria. I have added quite a lot in the history section, and am working on expanding the structures into their own articles like I have done at Central Park West Historic District, I already have an article on the round barns in my user space but I want to expand it a bit more before I go live with it and submit it for DYK and GA, pretty much simoltaneously, that way both the main article and the offshoot get GA.


 * Chana School made the grade. Wouldn't ya know! IvoShandor 10:15, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I do monitor that page, btw you can find a pretty good list of stubs and IL Registered Historic Places here at List of Registered Historic Places in Illinois, it is up to date through the end of last year as far as NRHP listings go, I checked it myself, and added numerous. I haven't finished updating Cook County yet. My articles started page linked from my user page has quite a few too. IvoShandor 11:20, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Illinois township stubs
That's an impressive number of township articles you've created, there. Since was getting rather large, I've created stub templates for all the counties, of the form CountyNameIL-geo-stub. (There's a complete list here.) They feed into assorted categories according to the stub size guidelines and what seem like reasonably scoped statistical areas and regions, which can be tweaked some more later as they fill up. Anyhoo, if you use those tags on any further Illinois stubs you create, that'd be a help, thanks. Alai 22:47, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

2005 Texas vs. Ohio State football game
Personally, although the article is indeed verifiable and well written, I don't think it is notable enough for inclusion. You see, a subject needs both verifiability and notability in order to become an entry in Wikipedia, and while this one is verifiable, is not really notable. If during the game lightning killed a player, in example, it would be a notable match, but as far as I see, it is not really notable. -- ReyBrujo 20:39, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, forgot about the rationale. I would say Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, as this specific match is not more notable than the match they played the week before, nor the match they played on the week after, and therefore, allowing a match without notability to be in Wikipedia will allow any of the ten of thousands of matches of different sports played every day around the world to be included. Of course, people will usually claim that Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia, which indicates Wikipedia has no limit regarding what to cover and what not. I guess the closing admin will choose a "No consensus" verdict. -- ReyBrujo 20:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * And also, note that there are not guidelines for "notability of matches", the closest one would be Television episodes, but it is a proposal and does not target matches really. -- ReyBrujo 20:48, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Mike Carden
I have merged both histories. Note that the article had been delete three times already, as non notable singer. -- ReyBrujo 21:09, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Vandal
Just so you know, I reverted vandalism to this page and your user page, warned the vandal in series and it stopped after the last warning. IvoShandor 04:57, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Providence
How do you know about Providence Baptist College?Sethy-boy 21:37, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes The Providence article needs to be deletedSethy-boy 20:05, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Memorial home
A search on the usual databases turn up nothing as far National Register of Historic Places listings. Could be of local significance, a landmark or something but it looks like the beginnings of an advertisement as is. I would say go ahead and tag away. IvoShandor 12:06, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

List ratings in WikiProject Illinnois
Hey, I saw your question about ratings for lists. This was an issue that bothered me for a long time too, as lists are articles and there are clearly large variations in the quality of lists. Anyway, WP Louisiana and New Orleans both use a system that adds a third parameter "type" which is by default set at "article," but can be changed to "category," "list" or "template." Using this method allows class ratings to be assigned (and included in the assessment table) while the type parameter allows you to still have a category that groups together all templates, list or categories. If you and other members of WP IL are interested in implementing this, I'd be happy to help. In the mean time, take a look at how we've done it. Here are the project templates: Template:WikiProject New Orleans, Template:WikiProject Louisiana. The Louisiana template has pretty complete documentation for the parameters. And here are some examples of it in use: Talk:List of mayors of New Orleans or Template talk:Jefferson Parish, Louisiana. VerruckteDan 13:42, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Category:Keithsburg, Illinois and Category:People from Keithsburg, Illinois
As the creator of these categories, you might be interested in the discussion taking place here about whether to delete / merge / keep these categories. Best wishes, Bencherlite 19:36, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Historic district
Thanks for fixing up my user page. : ) And you're right about the importance too, I tend to leave that to others on articles I create though. IvoShandor 16:36, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * A multi tiered comment.
 * On Illinois, the thought had crossed my mind. After I get Rock Springs Massacre up to FA I am going to take a short break from such intense work. But I will volunteer my services to work on History of Illinois, the main article (which I have on my list of articles to work on), and the summary section for the article on the state. I will also help with general formatting, clean up, copy editing etc. I have been bouncing around an idea for a page, set a bit up in my user space, concerning the History of the Latter Day Saint Movement in Illinois, but I haven't done the necessary research to compose it yet, a fairly important chapter in state history, needs work. There is but a short section in the main LDS history article (History of the Latter Day Saint movement). Either way, state history needs work, important articles such as the Springfield Race riot and Haymarket Riot aren't really all that great, and could use some improving. All of these articles will likely be linked to from Illinois or the history article, so they should be well done too, especially if Illinois is going for FA. I won't nominate Rock Springs for a bit yet. The article still needs a bit of work and such and then the red links need to be filled, and hopefully destubbed, to at least start class, as do some of the blue links. Whew. I'll be dead after that for a bit, but we can dive in full steam soon.


 * On another note, thanks for dropping Doomsday some of my reviews I need, I appreciate it. If you know anyone who is any good at copy editing, the Rock Springs Massacre article is in need of ongoing copy editing, I say ongoing because there will be a few paragraphs added still. IvoShandor 18:34, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Basically all that's left with the Rock Springs article is copy editing, so I shall be free of it minus any concerns raised at FAC. If you haven't read it yet I highly recommend it, as it is an interesting a largely unknown chapter of American history. There has not been too much historical research done into the topic. IvoShandor 12:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Black Hawk War
Please include a citation for something so out there for that "Pop Culture" section on the Black Hawk War. Otherwise it will have to be removed. Thanks.--Kranar drogin 10:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a song on a well-known album. It's listed on the album's page. What further citation is needed?

Round barn
One of my future projects, the article needs expansion and I have plenty of sources, so when I get around to it, the page will need more photos. What's there isn't bad and has undergone peer review, some work will bring it to GA, it's an article that wouldn't be too tough to get featured methinks.

You're in Byron right? Ogle County, none of the round barns there are listed on the Register but a ton in Stephenson County are. Not that this should discourage you from shooting them. I went to Chicago for a concert in March and took some of the State Routes there until I hooked up with I-90 and I saw some amazing specimens of round barns in DeKalb, Kane and Cook Counties, the Cook County one was awesome because it was basically in the middle of Arlington Heights, the Wheeler-Magnus Round Barn, it's set right on the edge of a commercial park. Pretty neat. So I am certain there are some good round barns in Ogle and I know some in Winnebago County too. But to be completely honest I am a heartbeat away from taking a ten hour drive next month just to see this.

Sorry, to be so long winded here. On another note I went on a tour of the Ellwood House today, if you haven't been you must go, it's amazing, no interior photography allowed though, really too bad because the interior is stunning. I did manage to get some cool barbed wire pictures in the home's Visitor Center/Barbed Wire History Museum, as well as some neat shots of some 19th century carriages, such as the phaeton, which I will soon add to the article. Do you have a Commons account yet? You should get one if you're going to be doing any photography, which I know you've done some, for the Wiki; that's where I ul all my photos. Good to hear from ya as always. IvoShandor 07:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Ack ack. Archive. : ) IvoShandor 07:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Some sort of weirdo indeed. The guy who owned the barn above (still in use) was outside when I shot it, he thought I was weird, yes, but he didn't shoot at me or anything. If you are on public property, say the shoulder of the road, your fine, you needn't obtain permission to shoot something that anyone can see. : ) IvoShandor 07:05, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Second Congregational United Church of Christ (Rockford, Illinois)
I hear you, Kranar drogin. I don't intend to leave the article that way, I just got cut short of time when I began creating it. I fully intend to fill out the article with more info, etc. Should've put the "stub" tag in, though. Emerymat 23:34, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Merging
Hi there. Usually we keep the oldest article. However, the oldest article between the two is, actually, the one with fewer contributions. So, I suggest redirecting Robert (Rob) Watson to Robert K. Watson, no need to delete the article. We can also do a history merge, if so, you would want to tag an article with db-histmerge, although it is not necessary because the other article will exist as a redirect. Up to you, though. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 19:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Commons
Yeah. I got a bunch of Plano today too, I will be adding them to my commons page, check out all of my galleries (a work in progress as I have a bunch of photos still to be uploaded), see: my galleries. If you want to set up an account on commons it's easy and works a lot like Wikipedia, follow the account creation links here. Any free use images we have should be moved to Commons but I am not sure how to do that I bet Rey Brujo knows... IvoShandor 05:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Anything you upload to Commons will be included in the gallery link at the top over there. Just FYI. : ). IvoShandor 05:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * There is a way to "move" images to Commons, I am not sure what that involves. Any images uploaded to commons can be used in any wikipedia the same way an image uploaded to En:Wikipedia would be. Check it. Like this image I just added to commons. IvoShandor 05:45, 13 May 2007 (UTC)




 * Twasn't me who created those Lebanon images, Lawton made some I know, such as Mermaid House Hotel but I dunno bouts the others. Either way, coolio, I always forget to add the Illinois images cats to the ones I add to articles over here. Darn it. IvoShandor 05:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

(undent)Well so far I have, DeKalb, Sycamore, Esmond, and Sandwich. I think that's it. I would need Somonauk (darn it I went through there yesterday), Waterman, Maple Park, Cortland, Malta, Elva err err, do you have a list of what needs to be done?IvoShandor 20:27, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Basically any of the Illinois cities on my commons gallery for Illinois I currently have pics of, except for Utica, which I only have pics at Starved Rock from. IvoShandor 20:35, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


 * DeKalb County, Illinois has a list, I could probably get all of those. IvoShandor 20:26, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Re: Commons
It is a bit tricky: the GFDL license requests that previous versions of the image be available (similar to the text, that is why every article has a "history" tab). Since you have uploaded it yourself, and the image has no modification, I think you could upload to Commons directly. But, if you want to be sure, use CommonsHelper. Just fill the data, and it will generate the text you need. Then, go to Commons, upload the image (either under the same name or under a different one, depending on your selection at CommonsHelper) and use the text the tool gave as summary for the upload. Finally, remember to tag the image here with ncd (either or Image:Newname.ext so that the image is tagged for deletion and so that the administrator can indeed check you have uploaded the image at Commons). The image should be deleted from the English Wikipedia later (the current backlog is huge, I think in total there were over 3,000 images that needed to moved). Ah, don't forget to create an account in Commons, there is (still) no universal login, so you need to register in every Wikimedia project you participate. Drop me a line if you have any problem. Cheers! -- ReyBrujo 06:20, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Jane Addams
Thanks for adding the category for Illinois Universities. I'm still new to the whole process.

 EleosPrime  03:01, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I will have to check out your Dragonlance project. Besides being a huge fan, they added a character named Krieger, which is my surname. A dream come true for me. :)

Crystal Lake High Schools
I'm thinking that we get some kind of ban applied to the Crystal Lake South High School and the Crystal Lake Central High School webpages, since there are many alumni being posted who have no reference whatsoever of previous graduation. Elenseel 23:28, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * After I finish some other things I'm workign on (with XHTML and XML), I'll be working to further the sites in NW Illinois, and we should definitely kep an eye out for those alumni adds.

IL state parks
Hi Kranar, all of the state parks (red dots) are now on the State parks of Illinois map. I am OK with different color dots for the others, but am not sure if all the dots will fit on the map. For example, see Grundy County, which already has two parks (William G. Stratton and Gebhard Woods) and will get at least one more (Goose Lake Prairie). How about green dots for the four state forests (all done) and blue dots for the State Recreation Areas for now? Ruhrfisch 02:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I will do the state forests next (since there are only four, I will do them all at once). No hurry on the rec areas, this is something I do when I have some time and can just outter on autopilot with dots. Ruhrfisch 03:51, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I finally did the four state forests on the State parks of Illinois map (do they look OK green?). However, when I wanted to put in Shawnee National Forest it is over a bunch of counties in extreme southern IL and placing one dot becomes problematic. So do we need the federal protected areas on the map or just the state ones? Thanks, Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 01:57, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I added Shawnee HQ and am starting in on State Recreation areas (as purple dots, so the Fish areas with water can be blue dots). How does the map look? Is Shelby County (with Eagle Creek SRA Wolf Creek SP, and Hidden SPrings SF) too busy? Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 21:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your kind words, I will keep working on the map (slowly but surely). Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 03:27, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Chicago articles
Thanks for the articles. If you feel articles like these are in need of attention use the following template on the talk page and choose yes for attention. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 01:26, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Second city
Hey, have you noticed WP Chicago adding their tag to about 10,000 pages (besides watering down their project to the point of it being ineffective) they seem to be adding the tag arbitrarily to any page that mentions the word Chicago. For instance Ronald Reagan and Vachel Lindsay, both have tenuous connections to the city, work and school. Lindsay didn't even finish school there. I find this tagging disruptive and pointless and probably an abuse of the Satyrbot. I mean come on, Ronald Reagan=Low importance? what the hell? How misleading is that? What should be done here, if anything, any ideas, the project has made it clear that they don't care what other people think I am considering a RfC or the like. IvoShandor 13:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I am going to comment on here so we can keep this message. Personally, if it doesn't involve the Chicagoland area, then it shouldn't be part of their project. I have gotten the same attitude in the past from other members of the group who I really haven't talked to now in some time. They don't care what the rest of the state is doing, nor do they really want to be part of it. Anyways, I think a RfC would be a great idea.--Kranar drogin 21:30, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I am not sure how to approach this. It's annoying at the least but we may have to just live with it, I am not really sure if there is any policy or guideline in this area. IvoShandor 21:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the way I look at it, is if they really want to work on someone that is from Dixon or Springfield, or where ever, go right ahead. I mean, its not like there isn't enough to do in the Chicagoland as it is, so might as well go beyond there to other parts of the state. I say, just ignore and move on.--Kranar drogin 21:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * You're probably right. Seems a bit disruptive though. IvoShandor 21:52, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with you on that. What really irks me is those banner shells. I hate those since you have to click and it drops them all down instead of the one you want to look at. Oh well, see mine was already edited out even though I stated I was requesting for those other two to be fixed. Oh well, some people have to have it their way or no way. I really don't care. THe Wikipedia isn't something I am going to lose sleep over.--Kranar drogin 04:29, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

New Chicago related articles
Instead of posting to my talk page, you should post new Chicago related articles here. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:57, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Locator dots
By the way, have you tried Template:Superimpose for your locator dot. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 00:12, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I really have not been using that. User:Ruhrfisch has been doing something, not really sure what. But you can see it in the likes of like List of protected areas of Illinois. Almost done stubbing these out finally.--Kranar drogin 00:34, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
 * For individual state park articles I use Infobox Protected area which has a superimposable dot built in - see Wolf Creek State Park for an example. You can also specify the map used in the Infobox: in the USA either a national or state map works. For the State parks of Illinois map it is a little more complicated - one dot for each state park so far. Kranar I will work on the IL forest dots next - have gotten bogged down in a bigger project navbox than I thought originally (see here if curious). Hope this helps, I more use the dots than understand all the ins and outs of the code. Ruhrfisch &gt;&lt;&gt; &deg; &deg; 04:02, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

John Deere
Didn't know if you noticed or not but I made it over to the John Deere House and Shop last weekend, as well as the William Moats Farm (middle of nowhere, dirt road, Texas Chainsaw Massacre style). Been doin' some hard work on some Frank Lloyd Wright stuff, I spent Wednesday in Oak Park. Check it on my user page if you feel like it. How you been? IvoShandor 10:24, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, the Kishwaukee area is a relatively new one, I came across some stuff when I expanded the Kishwaukee River article early in my career, it needs cleanup by my current standards. I will make sure to get over there and shoot the area for the article soon. IvoShandor 15:51, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Top Importance
If you would like to participate in top importance selection please go to the last section at WP:CHIASSESS. There you can see current nominees. The criteria are also on that page. Please vote for up to two. In order to add a new nominee please post it to the talk page. TonyTheTiger (talk/cont/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:08, 29 May 2007 (UTC)