User talk:Krayon95/Archive 1

April 2021
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Your submission at Articles for creation: Isardas has been accepted
 Isardas, which you submitted to Articles for creation, has been created.

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Thanks again, and happy editing! Bkissin (talk) 15:48, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Bhāts
Hello, Krayon95. I will begin by thanking you for posting sourced comments on Talk:Bhāts. I just request a time of one day from you. Tomorrow, I will specially dedicate a few hours in the evening or night to go through - in detail - the sources provided by you and probably a few others. Yes, it does appears that a little bit of change may be required in the article. Just one day! Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 04:13, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I will work on this in just a few hours. Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 13:29, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I have posted comments at Talk:Bhāts. But please can I request that you wait for one more day before replying at Talk:Bhāts? Actually, I will provide modern scholarly sources who says that the Charas not only worked as poets/eulogists but also as genealogists. However, it appears that only the eulogist Charans were part of the elite squad. It will all get too complicated if I try to explain it all here. Kindly wait for one more day and when I would have provided a much broader picture at Talk:Bhāts with scholarly sources, then things would be discussed more smoothly. Please be a dear and give me another 12–18 hours. Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 15:14, 21 September 2021 (UTC)

There's a lot to write. I can write books responding to what you have said here and at talk page of Bhats. Personally, I am much familiar with communities of Rajasthan and Gujarat. Charans never did function as genealogists. One mistake repeated again and again doesn't make it true. I will write more when I have time. Krayon95 (talk) 17:09, 21 September 2021 (UTC)


 * Hello. It appears that you couldn't wait for another 12–18 hours. But it's OK { Seems you are really passionate about the subject. No problem! I will reply to you within the next few hours. Anyways, I am very thankful to you for the discussion. Certainly, when we would be done, there would be multiple changes in the article and it would be improved. Please keep the participation on and please bear with my slow replies. And, please wait for my reply before posting your next comments at the Talk:Bhāts. I won't take too much time. Bear hugs, Мастер Шторм (talk) 02:51, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Hello, Krayon95. I have replied to you at Talk:Bhāts. Thanks, Мастер Шторм (talk) 12:24, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

Priyadarshan Singh Lakhawat moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Priyadarshan Singh Lakhawat, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Fiddle Timtrent Faddle Talk to me 07:49, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Priyadarshan Singh Lakhawat has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Priyadarshan Singh Lakhawat. Thanks! Fiddle Timtrent Faddle Talk to me 07:50, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Priyadarshan Singh Lakhawat (December 16)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Slywriter was:

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Slywriter (talk) 22:06, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

hi, i don't understand how its promotional. from my view, its just bare data in the article. now I tried to rewrite it so it doesn't seem like a "resume" as perviously complained. if you could point out the lines or words I need to change, i can try again.

about the awards: the first two are given by Govt of India itself, they are considered prestigious in hospitality sector. you can see this: the awards are conferred directly by the Union Minister

thank you. Krayon95 (talk) 23:02, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Community sanctions notification
--RegentsPark (comment) 00:26, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

Charan
Hi. A quick note to remind you that Raj era sources are considered not reliable for Indian social group articles. I see you've just added one on Charan. Best. --RegentsPark (comment) 13:59, 14 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, RegentsPark. Have replaced it. Thanks.Krayon95 (talk) 14:58, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
 * RegentsPark has already informed you about the discretionary sanctions. You have been pushing your POV to promote the caste which is known to one and all, since you have yourself pinged admins & senior editors for the same. If you continue edit warring, you may be blocked as per our policies. If you have concerns, you can discuss on the article talk page. Ekdalian (talk) 12:54, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi, Ekdalian RegentsPark. I really am waiting for a proper discussion on the subject, but no one's willing to start or if you could just point out which term you have issues with or are concerned about. And I have tried to keep the content unbiased.

Now, in the previous edit in the introduction: 'Charans have been buffalo herders, pastoralists, bards...'. Here, I had already included the term 'pastoralists'. Then, adding the phrase "Charans have been buffalo herders" becomes redundant, which is why I reverted. Furthermore, the source used for Charans as 'buffalo herders' only refer to the Saurashtra region, particularly Gir, Barda, and Alech areas around Junagadh. You yourself can comprehend if you had read the book or some portions of it that the author's subject location is the Kathiawar region of Gujarat. Above stated Source: Transaction and Hierarchy Elements for a Theory of Caste By Harald Tambs-Lyche ·2017 (https://books.google.com/books?id=AOsrDwAAQBAJ)

Not only that, pastoralist Charans were not limited to buffaloes either, but cows, camels, and horses were also part of their lifestyle. This is another reason, the term 'pastoralist' better suffices and it is prominently included in the introduction. And honestly, it did seem like a POV pushing on your part.

Again Ekdalian, I would request you to please discuss these issues and not just remove content because, in my view, I am trying my best present unbiased content. ps: you wrote in edit summary:"clearly here to promote Charan caste". I am not here for that. Thanks.Krayon95 (talk) 13:24, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Ekdalian. Again, I would start by saying that it would be better if we have a proper discussion. Now after the above comments, you have changed the introduction to " Historically, Charans have been pastoralists, bards, poets and even jagirdars and warriors; they also specialised in diverse occupations like literateurs, agriculturalists and traders."

along with edit summary: "Removed the specific profession as requested by Krayon95 on their talk page"

First, I did not ask or "requested" you to do that.

It is Charans being poets & historians that they are most prominently known as, secondary to being a fighting group(soldiers or warriors) or their feudal heritage. So, I am requesting you now to please reinstate the earlier introduction: "Historically, Charans were poets & literateurs, as well as warriors and jagirdars. They specialised in diverse occupations as historians, literateurs, soldiers, pastoralists, agriculturalists, traders, and merchants."

It is a better description in every way. The 'pastoralists' part you seem very fond of is an integral part of Charan identity, but if you must know, it is the least numerous Charan sub-group, which hardly number more than a thousand persons who live around the Gir mountains/forests of Gujarat. So, please revert to my last edit version. And for the n-th time, please discuss such issues. Thanks. Krayon95 (talk) 14:07, 31 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey, all edits here must be supported by reliable & verififiable sources. According to the sources, historically (in the past), the Charans have been buffalo herders/pastoralists, bards, poets and even jagirdars & warriors; that's the reason I have mentioned the same. It's not about your opinion about the numbers associated with these professions, but all about what reliable sources say. Your version of the lead amounts to WP:UNDUE. None of the sources (except one, which clearly indicates "bards") mention them as historians. Ekdalian (talk) 14:42, 31 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey Ekdalian. Your version placing pastoralists prominently in the first part also lead to same the WP:UNDUE. Charans are most prominently known as poets, do you have any doubt over this statement? Have you read any of the multiple sources already existing on this page? Did you scroll down to the section which says that a whole genre of literature is called "Charan literature"?

Let's remove the term 'historians' for a while(will provide more sources later). The first part about poets, literatures, warriors, jagirdars is for what they were known for and their status. The second part lists their prominent occupations: soldiers, pastoralists, agriculturalists, traders, and merchants.

"Historically, Charans were poets & literateurs, as well as warriors and jagirdars. They specialised in diverse occupations as literateurs, soldiers, pastoralists, agriculturalists, traders, and merchants."

Now, it shouldn't have any problem.Krayon95 (talk) 15:10, 31 January 2022 (UTC)


 * What's the problem with 'pastoralists' when multiple sources mention about the same? One source says, "Charans are affiliated, by their past history as buffalo herders, to the pastoralist estate. Some Charans, indeed, still herd buffaloes", while another says "In the past some Charans were agriculturalists, engaged in farming lands which were divided equally between male descendants of the lineage. Others were cowherds and caravan escorts...." Ekdalian (talk) 15:21, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Hey, Ekdalian. What do you mean multiple sources mention the same? I can provide a lot more sources for each of the terms? This is why the earlier wording is better. As Charans were involved in a diverse set of occupations, it is natural that some will be prominent and others comparatively less so.Krayon95 (talk) 15:55, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Ekdalian. I have added an additional source with citation as it would help better explain & reworded the introduction part to:

"Historically, Charans have been poets & literateurs, as well as warriors and jagirdars. They specialised in diverse occupations as literateurs, soldiers, pastoralists, agriculturalists, traders, and merchants."

Again stressing that the two sentences be kept separate: "poets & literateurs, as well as warriors and jagirdars" in the first part

and the expanded set of occupations in the next part: "literateurs, soldiers, pastoralists, agriculturalists, traders, and merchants." Krayon95 (talk) 16:39, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Hi, Ekdalian. Please reply to the above comments. As I have explained before with reasons, the preferred introduction is like this:

"Historically, Charans were poets & literateurs, as well as warriors and jagirdars. They specialised in diverse occupations as literateurs, soldiers, pastoralists, agriculturalists, traders, and merchants."

Your latest edit is this:

"Historically, Charans have been engaged in diverse occupations like bards, poets, literateurs, pastoralists, agriculturalists and also jagirdars and warriors and some even as traders."

Again, the most prominent occupations which Charans are known for are Poets(court poets+historians+literateurs) & warriors(as soldiers in Rajput & Mughal armies + many appellations like poet-warriors/warrior-poets/bardic-warriors). This is why in the preferred sentence structure, poets(+literateurs) & warriors are first mentioned. Then in the 2nd part expanded set of occupations which include soldiers, agriculturalists, pastoralists, traders, merchants are mentioned.

I believe this should be the sentence structure. The additional source I provided which states:

"Although, in a way, poetic composition and recitation was for them a “pastime” subordinate to the primary income producing occupations of military service, agriculture, and horse and cattle trading"

Through this citation, I wanted to provide you with an example that even though a significant portion of Charans were poets, a significant section also worked as soldiers(military service), agriculture, and traders(horse+cattle trade + commodity trade).

This I believed would support the order & sentence structure in which occupations are mentioned.

Now, I do not know what was supposed to be my POV that wasn't supported by this new source? Please enlighten me. Thanks for continuing the discussion.Krayon95 (talk) 19:21, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Indic Script
- Please do not add any Indic script, to any of our India related articles, as you did at Thakur Kesari Singh Barhath, as this contravenes WP:NOINDICSCRIPT - Thank you - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 10:09, 14 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Ok. Thank you for correcting this. Krayon95 (talk) 11:51, 14 March 2022 (UTC)


 * Welcome . - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 14:32, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was just trying to reinstate the images i accidently deleted. forgot about indic script names. Krayon95 (talk) 17:28, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Subhash Charan moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Subhash Charan, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:34, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Subhash Charan (April 26)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Timtrent were:

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🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 20:37, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Subhash Charan has a new comment
 I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Subhash Charan. Thanks! 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:15, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Hemu Gadhavi
 The article you submitted to Articles for creation has been created.

Congratulations, and thank you for helping expand the scope of Wikipedia! We hope you will continue making quality contributions.

The article has been assessed as High quality-Class, which is recorded on its talk page. You may like to take a look at the grading scheme to see how you can improve the article.

Since you have made at least 10 edits over more than four days, you can now create articles yourself without posting a request. However, you may continue submitting work to Articles for creation if you prefer.

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Thanks again, and happy editing! Miketurna (talk) 14:04, 15 May 2022 (UTC)


 * @Miketurna ??? please explain. Krayon95 (talk) 14:29, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * A one day old editor who seems to have an unusual line in vandalism, I think 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:35, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * yes. very strange thing to do. Krayon95 (talk) 15:25, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It was a Sockpuppet who seems to do stuff like that. Wikipedia introduces us all to the most unusual people. They are blocked now. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:06, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

June 2022
Hello, I'm Toddy1. I noticed that you added or changed content in an article, Aam Aadmi Party, Gujarat, but you didn't provide a reliable source that mentioned the stuff it was cited for - see Talk:Aam Aadmi Party, Gujarat. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a relevant citation and re-add it, please do so. You can have a look at referencing for beginners. If you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. -- Toddy1 (talk) 06:37, 13 June 2022 (UTC)


 * thanks. have added it back with a proper citation. Krayon95 (talk) 06:50, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for July 2
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Charan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Administrative.

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Priyadarshan Singh Lakhawat (July 7)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Missvain was:

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Missvain (talk) 03:39, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

Natrayat Charans moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Natrayat Charans, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. 🇺🇦 Fiddle Timtrent  Faddle Talk to me 🇺🇦 21:22, 22 July 2022 (UTC)


 * User:Timtrent Hey, this is not a large social group, so there are not much studies on it. This is a distinct caste is cleared by sources. It should be enough. You can find similar articles for smaller castes. Krayon95 (talk) 21:27, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

Jagadu
Your recent edits to Jagadu has been reverted by me. It seems that 15th century Jagadu from Chittor is a different person from 13th century Jagadu from Kutch. Chittor Jagadu was Maheshwari Jain while Kutch Jagadu was Shrimali Jain. Please create separate article for him. Bhagwati Shri Karniji Maharaj: A Biography may not qualify as WP:HISTRS. Please checkout guideleines. Regards,- Nizil (talk) 05:13, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

Ratnu
It's never standard or acceptable process at all. I suppose you might have gotten away with it in the past because it wasn't noticed that you did that -- but when AFC reviewers look at, we must never, ever, ever see any page in there that is already in articlespace but still has an AFC submission template on it.

If you don't want to have to wait for AFC review, you might want to consider using your own user sandbox space instead of draftspace -- draftspace is meant for new users who need guidance and direction in how to create new articles, not experienced users who generally have some idea of what they're doing. You should have a "sandbox" link right after the link to your user talk page in the top menu, so try that out -- but if you really insist on using draftspace, then the number one absolutely inviolable rule of draftspace is that I must never under any circumstances see any pages that are already in mainspace but still sitting in  because they still have AFC templates on them. Bearcat (talk) 01:38, 25 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Okay. I did not know that. Thank you. Should I move the draft to mainspace now? Krayon95 (talk) 02:21, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

September 2022
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, as you did at Charan, you may be blocked from editing. Please initiate talk page discussion before adding such contentious content; edit warring may lead to block, topic ban, etc. especially since you have been trying to promote the caste/community for a pretty long time here. Ekdalian (talk) 17:54, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Plz add Juglani Baloch — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.126.86.87 (talk) 02:25, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Chetavani ra Chungatya moved to draftspace
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Nomination of Isudan Gadhvi for deletion
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Hy
Plz mujhse contact kare meri Gmail nikhilkavia04@gmail.com Nikxkav44 (talk) 17:29, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

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Disambiguation link notification for January 5
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Alhaji Barhath, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Trader.

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Nomination of Isudan Gadhvi for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Isudan Gadhvi is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Isudan Gadhvi& until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️Let's Talk ! 08:06, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Natrayat Charans


Hello, Krayon95. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Natrayat Charans".

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Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. Liz Read! Talk! 21:33, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Subhash Charan
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Disambiguation link notification for April 28
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Swami Swarupadas, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Disciple.

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Ambadan Rohadiya moved to draftspace
An article you recently created, Ambadan Rohadiya, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of " " before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Gazal world (talk) 14:14, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Subhash Charan for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Subhash Charan is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Subhash Charan until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.  𝙳𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚖𝚁𝚒𝚖𝚖𝚎𝚛  𝚍𝚒𝚜𝚌𝚞𝚜𝚜  06:05, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Charans
Hi, you are very keen on documenting Charans. Unfortunately, despite now having around 2500 edits, you seem not to have learned much about how to do it. I seem still to be fixing problems that you have created, most recently at List of Charans. I think perhaps you should read my edit summaries there. - Sitush (talk) 17:05, 8 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Perhaps also read WP:OVERCITE and please, where possible, prefer reliable English-language sources to anything in Hindi etc. And use page numbers: it is an absolute nightmare having to clean up after you. - Sitush (talk) 17:16, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Sitush. Hi, I was going to add page numbers, just takes some time to check sources again. Btw, the sources do identify them as members of the community. I will add with proper citation. Thank you. Krayon95 (talk) 17:54, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If they are living, they must self-identify in the source. And despite what you may think, Gadhvi is not Charan - even some of the sources you cite call them "sister castes", which doesn't mean the terms are interchangeable. - Sitush (talk) 18:00, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * "If they are living, they must self-identify in the source." —Agree.
 * " And despite what you may think, Gadhvi is not Charan "—It is one of the titles, used interchangeably with the caste name. You can check the Gadhavi article.
 * I understand that surname can't be used as identification of caste. Thanks. Krayon95 (talk) 18:08, 8 August 2023 (UTC)