User talk:Kumarrao/Archive 1

Telugu Chodas
You have edited and deleted references that were mentioned about Telugu Chodas.Donot do this again i will have to take this to the Administrators... You can Only delete it if you can prove me wrong or you have counter claims.>>>

Notable Kammavaru
I have added a "" template to the article Notable Kammavaru, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. Awyong J. M. Salleh 00:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Summaries
When editing an article on Wikipedia there is a small field labeled "Edit summary" under the main edit-box. It looks like this: The text written here will appear on the Recent changes page, in the page revision history, on the diff page, and in the watchlists of users who are watching that article. See m:Help:Edit summary for full information on this feature.

Filling in the edit summary field greatly helps your fellow contributors in understanding what you changed, so please always fill in the edit summary field, especially for big edits or when you are making subtle but important changes, like changing dates or numbers. Thank you. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 15:12, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Your message
I left a message at Talk:Kamma (caste) as well as an earlier message above; you've ignored both &mdash; you're still not signing your messages, nor using edit summaries. If you make edits to an article without saying what you're doing or why you're doing it, and without giving sources, your edits are very likely to be reverted. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 10:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The trouble is that your edits included incorrect formatting, the removal of large chunks of text, and various additions, none of which was given a source. You added a couple of books to the references at the end, but it's not clear that or how they justify all or any of your changes.  Could you explain at the Talk page what you want to change, and why? --Mel Etitis  ( Talk ) 12:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Kamma (caste)
I've explained the position at the Talk page. It's no good merely saying that you've made changes &mdash; you need to say why, and to back up your explanation with verifiable sources, as explained at WP:CITE. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 11:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not clear what you mean when you say that you add references whenever relevant; when are they not relevant? You certainly never have the courtesy to give an edit summary.  Moreover, you have introduced an astonishing number of errors into Kamma (caste) &mdash; with regard both to the English and the Wikipedia style.
 * Frankly, as the vast majority of the editors who are obsessed with India-related articles seem to have absolutely no interest in Wikipedia (or any) standards of writing and editing, I'm giving up on them. I think that it's a real pity that this whole area of Wikipedia should be so deeply inferior, as it's important &mdash; but I can no longer spare the time and energy to defend it. --Mel Etitis  ( Talk ) 11:05, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:TenuguLenkaPhoto.jpg
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Your new articles
It's good that you're adding articles to Wikipedia, but instead of adding a lot of stubs, all without Wikipedia formatting, correct English, categories, stub notices, or sources, could you create them one at a time, more slowly, doing a proper job on each? S it is, you're creating a lot of work for other editors (assuming that you don't intend to do it youself), and we have a lot of badly presented and unsourced articles covered in ugly templates asking for the work to be done. Thank you. --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 18:19, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Reddy
It would be great if you could spare some time to work on the Reddy article. I first visited it in order to wikify it, but stayed because it had further problems. But I can go no further because of my lack of knowledge of South Indian society. User: Mel Etitis is in a similar position to me and you can also rely on him to make sure that good editing is encouraged. Itsmejudith 21:59, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Re:
Cautionary note provided in the references talks about Telugu being independent language but not about script. This is what is says :''For example, Telugu script has been shown as a descendent of "old Kannada" script. It does not in any way mean that the language (as opposed to the script) has descended from Kannada. Kannada became a literate language slightly ahead of Telugu. For example, both Kannada and Telugu had produced poetry during the eighth century. Kannada writers had also produced full-fledged literary works in the ninth century. But it was two more centuries before major poetic works in Telugu became available. That is the reason for the combined Telugu-Kannada script to have been called as the "old Kannada.''. Same thing has been said in other reference too. I've changed that sentence in the article to exactly reflect what's been said in references. Hope this solves the issue. Thanks, Gnanapiti 20:54, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi!
Saw your article on Vasireddy Seethadevi. Did you know her? -- Altruism To talk  05:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Apology
Don't worry about that, I'll restore Malik Maqbul.

But, please clarify:

1) Based on what do say- "Ramachandrarao provided a very uncharitable account of Gannama Nayak. Gannama was forcibly converted to Islam like Harihara...." It may not have been treachery but if at all the conversion was forcible he could have very well reverted to Hinduism, as Harihararayalu and Bukkarayalu did in the presence of the Sringeri seer.

2) Are you sure N G Ranga hasn't commented on this aspect? Vepachedu normally publishes facts from credible sources, as far as I know.

3) Kotha Bhavaiah Chowdary's "Kammavari Charitra", for a fact isn't 100% right. It has its own flaws. Going just by the weight of facts, given in this book, isn't right, in my opinion.

4) Yes, I concur with you on the fact that Nagaya nayaka may not have committed treachery. He could have deliberately, converted to Islam, for various reasons, including probable positions of power under the Tughlaqs.

Did you know that it is a myth that the Kammas were dead against Muslim rule. For example, one Rangaiah Chowdary supervised the construction of the Mecca Masjid in Hyderabad, along with Mir Fathullah Baig, most probably, during the reign of Muhammad Quli Qutb Shah.

Its hard to get online sources for the various facts related to the Kammas or people like Malik Maqbul. This probably is a drawback, mainly to thwart possible misuse. Regards,  Altruism To talk  06:16, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The above article on Kamma was by Ramachandrarao V., not related to Dr. Vepachedu or to the Vepachedu Educational Foundation. Please acknowledge Mr. Ramachandrarao V.'s contributions accordingly. See: http://www.vepachedu.org/manasanskriti.htm

Reply
1. There was no evidence to say Ganna colluded with Muslims. Ramachandrarao did not have one. 2. Ramachandrarao's article betrays an undercurrent of prejudice towards 'Kamma'. 3. Ramachandrarao draft article on Telugu history is not a true historical account. 4. Maqbul did not have an opportunity to reconvert like Hakka & Bukka who were sent back to south. Maqbul was sent to Punjab. 5. K B Choudary did 14 years of research on various inscriptions, museum records, historical accounts, manuscripts etc just to write his book. 6. I did not make any statement that Kammas were against Muslim rule. The Telugu nayaks (all communities) were only trying to protect their land, faith, customs, traditions, way of life et. against an alien faith. One gets used to aliens and their habits in due course of time. The first encounter with a violent stranger always goes towards protecting yourself. That was what happened in 1320s.

I managed to repair the damage done in the article. Thank you. Kumarrao 06:32, 5 June 2007 (UTC) -- The above article on Kamma was by Ramachandrarao V., not related to Dr. Vepachedu or to the Vepachedu Educational Foundation. Please acknowledge Mr. Ramachandrarao V.'s contributions accordingly. See: http://www.vepachedu.org/manasanskriti.htm --

A fact
Just wanted to tell you that <> says that Warangal was captured from Malik Maqbul by Musunuri Kaapaneedu. So, we can conclude that he did rule over Warangal, when appointed by Ulugh Khan.

What Malik Maqbul did was only a shift in allegiance. I agree with you and strongly reject the allegations of treachery.

Ramachandrarao was neither uncharitable, towards the Kammas, nor glorifying. At best he only claims to source facts from available historical resources. He seems to show the same attitude towards all communities. What do you feel?

Did you know Vasireddy Seethadevi?

Please post the reply on my talk page. Thank You-- Altruism To talk  07:17, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

-- The above article on Kamma was by Ramachandrarao V., not related to Dr. Vepachedu or to the Vepachedu Educational Foundation. Please acknowledge Mr. Ramachandrarao V.'s contributions accordingly. See: http://www.vepachedu.org/manasanskriti.htm --

Re:Vepachedu
After taking a good re-look at Ramachandrarao article on the Kammas, all I have to say that, the article seems to be what you are claiming it to be, a distortion to an extent. There seem to be several mistakes, one among which is, that which attributes treachery to Maqbul. I'd like to add at this juncture, that Brahmins were opposed to the Kammas for quite some time, instead of otherwise, as suggested by Ramachandrarao. The probable reasons for this could be that, the Kammas had the unique distinction, of being the first caste in AP to oppose the Brahmins' stranglehold over fields like education, religion etc.

In some places I cited Vepachedu just to fulfil the condition of "citing sources" which is very essential for Wikipedia's goal of authenticity of articles.

Your analysis and work is impressive.

Regards,  Altruism To talk  08:38, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussed article on Kamma was by Ramachandrarao V., not related to Dr. Vepachedu or to the Vepachedu Educational Foundation. Please acknowledge Mr. Ramachandrarao V.'s contributions accordingly. See: http://www.vepachedu.org/manasanskriti.htm

VSR college
R u talking abt VSR college? -- Altruism To talk  11:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Reddy
Thank you for putting in so much work. The article is greatly improved. Itsmejudith 19:48, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No problem. It's getting much better, isn't it? Itsmejudith 20:42, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

VSR & NVR
Hi! Could you plz. tell me what VSR & NVR (as in the college), stand for? Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 05:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Ramakrishna and VSR & NVR college
Could you please tell what Velagapudi Ramakrishna's relationship with the college was? I know he was associated, but how? I now remember that during that occasion when V V Giri came, Ms. Rajeswari, allegedly insulted 2 MLCs, who came there after taking considerable trouble. I'll get the details tomorrow. Ramakrishna's referred to as "London Kishtaiah" in my village. You're welcome--<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 07:00, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Wiki project Andhra Pradesh
Would you be interested in WikiProject Andhra Pradesh?. --(Sumanth|Talk) 07:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Please add your name to this list. Do you have any to do list related to Andhra Pradesh? --(Sumanth|Talk) 07:51, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Stubborn vandal
Hi! Like to bring to your mention, of a possible case of vandalism in the Madurai Nayak Dynasty article. The unregistered user time and again mentions the name of a caste favourable to him. This is in spite of advice to leave out the caste factor, since its very much disputed. He also goes on to support his claim, giving probably, dubious references.

What do you suggest as the future course of action. Should this article be semi-protected? Anything else? Thanks--<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 08:48, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank You
I fully agree with your advice to the user on the Madurai Nayaks page. Please give me a day's time for the Telugu name of Tellapadu. I'm sure the official English name is Tellapadu. Thank You. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 06:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Telugu-Kannada script
The page is protected.

Some users, most definitely, have a deep-rooted inclination towards Kannada and are prejudiced against Telugu.

It is beyond doubt that "Telugu-Kannada" would be the most appropriate name to the script in question, as opposed to "Old Kannada." A case in point would be the Perso-Arabic script. Though used for both Arabic, Persian. It is inclusive and isn't named similar to this example as just "Arabic Script." There is in fact a stronger case for calling the script in question as "Telugu Kannada script" due to the common origin, from the Brahmi script, as opposed to just Arabic in the example cited.

Old Kannada could at the most be used in the "Kannada script" article for the ease of interpretation.

This kind of petty chauvanism, if allowed to proliferate would seriously undermine the painstaking contributions of many to Wikipedia. Names should be inclusive, and more importantly be restrained only to the most popular, unanimous and unambiguous, not those of a particular user's choice. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 09:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Tellapadu
I'm almost sure the official name in Telugu for Tellapadu is with the "p" or "pa." --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 09:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Suggestion?
What is your suggestion? The article is now protected, after a request from "Sumanthk" and only a mutual consensus could lead to a break in the ice. Or, else experts/online sources should be roped in to air their views. Anything else, you would suggest? Thank You. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 08:52, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Kaapanedu
Is the spelling Kaapanedu or Kapaanedu, as in Musunuri...? Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 12:16, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Requesting your comments
Could you please comment on Talk:Andhra_Pradesh?. --(Sumanth|Talk) 04:37, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you please post your opinion on Talk:Andhra_Pradesh so that every one can view them? --(Sumanth|Talk) 07:12, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Just in case you missed this. Can you please post on the above mentioned page (instead of my talk page). --(Sumanth|Talk) 12:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

In Telugu plz.
I'm not sure, but feel its Kaapaneedu. Anyways could you spell Kaapaaneedu in Telugu plz.? Yeah sure, I can change the title. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 04:59, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

From what has the name been derived, Kapu or Kapil? This is because Kaapaaneedu doesn't sound like a Telugu name. I maybe wrong. Your views? <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 06:48, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

If its from "Kaapala", shouldn't it be Kaapaneedu. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 07:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

OK! I got it. I've changed the title (by moving). Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 07:15, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Nayudamma
Upon hearing the news of her husband's death, in the Kanishka air crash, she committed suicide by burning herself. A very tragic event. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 05:03, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Puchalapalli Sundaraiah
Plz. have a look at this article. Plz. contribute, if time permits. Any suggestions? Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 07:19, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank You. Also have a look at Makineni Basavapunnaiah. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 08:47, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Pemmasani Timmanayudu
How is he related to Pemmasani Ramalinganayaka, Sri Krishna Deva Raya's general? Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 09:08, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Mirzapuram zamindar
Hi! Have you heard of the Mirzapuram (Krishna dist.) zamindar Meka Rangaiah? Could he be included in the list of zamindars? He married Krishnaveni (old-film actress.) He also established a film studio in Chennai. Thank You. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 11:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Script
I have been noticing your edits to Kannada script page. You are adviced not to "conjecture" by using statements like Telugu-Kannada evolved from Guntur inscription and such. Nowhere in the article you have provided as reference does it say that. Moreover your citation has no author, publisher etc.

Your citation: ''The Salankayana script of the 5th Century is given in the 7th row of Fig. T1. Salankayanas and Vishnukundinas were two of the many dynasties that succeeded the Ikshvakus. From their time, the script for Telugu and Kannada languages began clearly separating from that of the other south Indian and north Indian dialects.''

This does not mean the "Salankayanas and Vishnukundinas" script became the Kannada-Telugu script, it just says from that time the script seperated. Nowehere does it say that the Guntur inscriptions are the earliest. Please remember that Kannada script evolved from the Kadamba script and this is the script the earliest Kannada inscription of 450 AD is written in (Halmidi inscription). This inscription is full length and perhaps 200 years older than the oldest full length Telugu inscription (7th century). What you have done is modify a statement to show that the Kannada script came from Andhra or something to that effect. Please refrain from such conjecture and assumptions. There are no shortage of citations to show that Telugu-Kannada script was called Old Kannada script. Some citations provided for the purpose have been removed and I am in the process of identifying when and who removed it. Wish you the best of luck and hope you create many good articles. If you continue your edits to Kannada script page, a larger audience will be brought in, to expalin what is conjecture and what is not.Dineshkannambadi 13:49, 13 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have read your comments on various pages you have pasted your thoughts. I dont mean to discourage you, but you are not the first wikipedian to come along with his own theories and conjectures, nor will you be the last (no offence meant). The "authoritative" source you are quoting is perhaps best described as a "blog" site on top of which you are professing your own theories about Pampa. Blog sites are not adviceable on wikipedia. You cant prove Pampa was Telugu though he came from Vengi. Even if he were, it has no connection to the current topic. There is enough evidence in Kavirajamarga that Kannada was popular upto Godavari in the 9th century. I sincerely suggest you read up on real history books written by real scholars. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a popular newspaper to write the editors views on historical issues. BTW, what is proto-Telugu script? I have never heard of it nor do any of my dozen books quote that phrase. Can you forward me to a scholarly "book" that talks at length about how Kannada script (whose inscriptions predate Telugu by 200 years) evolved from Telugu script? The bolg site uses statements like "The Chalukyas took a affinity to Kannada and later re-learnt Telugu". These statements are not forthcoming of a scholar, but a blogger, which has been copied into some Telugu articles on wiki. I hope you see this difference. best of luck.Dineshkannambadi 12:00, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

The same site you are claiming from also claims Telugu script evolved from "old-Kannada script"!!!. Please read Dineshkannambadi 12:05, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Vijayanagara Empire, they are very much a part of Karnataka's history, irrespective of any controversies. The fact that they lived in Karnataka region and ruled from Karnataka region, patronised Kannada language and literature makes them Kannadigas whether you like it or not. You are free to include them in the "Telugu people" page also, and perhaps you should given the patronage they gave to Telugu language. Nobody is stopping you. There are controversies about just about every Kingdom in India. You would realise this if you read real history books.Dineshkannambadi 14:40, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Clear evidence
There are no conjectures. I have cited an authoritative reference and pointed out the figures given in the article. It is not fair to ignore the facts and make innuendos. It is absolutely clear from Figures T1a and T1b in the reference(http://www.engr.mun.ca/~adluri/telugu/language/script/script1d.html) how Telugu-Kannada script evolved from Asokan Brahmi script of Bhattiprolu. Kadamba scipt or "old Kannada script" are the names given by Kannada historians to Telugu-Kannada script. Kumarrao 05:58, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Yelavarthy Nayudamma
Made some contributions here. Plz. have a look. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 09:01, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Brahmi script
Just curious. Was the Brahmi script, as in the Bhattiprolu inscriptions, the progenitor of the Tamil script also? Thank U. <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 05:30, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Probable
This is what Adluri says:

''By the time Pallavas moved to the Tamil country from Telugu lands, Sanskrit gained its prominence in South India and displaced Prakrit. The Pallavas took this newfound interest to Tamil Nadu and patronized some of the most illustrious Sanskrit poets like Bharavi and Dandin. At that time, Tamil (and Sanskrit in the Tamil land) used to be written in the "pallava grantham" script. Row 8 of Fig. T1 lists this script. Modern Tamil script eventually descended from it. A great number of south-east Asian languages including Thai and Malay had adapted variants of this grantham script and Telugu script over the centuries.''Kumarrao 05:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I was surprised when I found glaring similarities between Old Telugu, as shown in some inscriptions in Telugu script and languages of countries like Cambodia ,Thailand, Sri Lanka etc. Probably, the old Telugu, which migrated with the Theravada Buddhists (Karma is a Pali-Theravada word) from Kammanadu to parts of South-East Asia developed differently, to these modern day forms. Theravada Buddhism is also the main religion in Sri Lanka, Cambodia, Thailand etc. Cambodia's traditional name of Kampuchea could have probably been derived from Kambhoja (the king). --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 06:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I pieced together most of these from the various facts presented by historians, apart from my observations. Khmer is another ancient name for Cambodia. All this was probably, a mainly trading relationship, which developed into a thicker relationship, involving culture, religion etc. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 06:33, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Kambhoja
Any information on Kambhoja, seems it is located to the north of Kandahar (Gandhara) near the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 06:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Interesting links
Some interesting links I came across over time,

Ramayana and Central Asia

Cultural Unity of the Dravidian and African Peoples

Telmun (Bahrain) language and Telugu

The last link in fact, also appeared in The Hindu some weeks ago.

Hope you enjoy these. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 06:45, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
I shall read these webpages. Regarding Pahlava-Kambhoja, Wiki has very many interesting articles. A terrific book on Ramayana and Central Asia/Afghanistan is : The Vedic People by Rajesh Kochar. It is a compulsory reading for persons interested in ancient Aryans, Vedas, Ramayana, Mahabharata etc.Kumarrao 07:09, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar
By the way, did you notice the barnstar I added today? --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 10:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Unreasonable indeed
Anything I can do, plz. let me know. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 05:52, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Kannadiga
Kumarrao, with an effort to put an end to the ongoing edit war, I have made some edits to the title of the paragraph. It now reads "Empires that gave patronage to Kannada". This is something "no one" can disprove or argue about. All the citations are available in the FA Vijayanagara Empire article that I myself wrote after extensive research and travel to Vijayanagara on multiple occassions. I hope this puts an end to any edit warring right here. If the edit wars continue, the next step will be to bring in admins to resolve the issue. I suggest you create an article called "Telugu people" (if one does not already exist) and mention that Vijayanagar rulers patronised Telugu, which would also be true. BTW, Sewell is not the only authority on Vijayanagara Empire. In fact later historians (Henry Heras, Desai, Saletore) have used more modern methods of epigraphy to study the history of the Empire than Sewell, who mostly relied on chronicles and travellogues, which never-the-less is well known. Best of luck. Cheers.Dineshkannambadi 16:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:
Some confrontation on edits happening in one article cannot be used as a basis to distort facts in another article. If you have any issues in the Telugu article, it is prudent for you to resolve issues in that article's talk page. BTW, you are talking about conscience in most of your dicussions, question your conscience on whether the citation you have put forth is a reliable one or not. Even after so many days you have not been able to put forth another citation that would substantiate your arguments. So lets not edit-war on this trivial citation and please resolve your dispute on Telugu in it's talk page. Thanks -- Amarrg 07:29, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Kamat
Did you know that Dr. Jyotsna Kamat/Dr. Suryanath Kamath (unrelated to each other) are winners of the sahitya academy award (among many other awards) for their many history related books? Dr Suryanath Kamath is the director of Mythic society and Raja Ram Mohan Roy historical library in Calcutta. Many wiki users have tried to defame Karnataka historians but failed. Hope you dont take the same route.cheersDineshkannambadi 16:31, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

With regards to Talk:Origin of Vijayanagara Empire, before you make any "hasty and unwise" edits, I suggest you start adding citations to the "Telugu origin" theories. All the existing citations are from the Kannada origin section if you noticed. Also, its a mistake to discriminate against "local historians". There are many of us who are proud of the work done by Indian historians. The more I read your points in the talk page, the more I feel you have not understood how wikipedia works. You are constantly questioning the views of scholars and the way they build evidence in favour and against any arguement. You are questioning scholars and dont realise the same can be done about Sewell, Venkataramanayya etc also. The rule in wikipedia is not to prove or disprove scholars "of repute" (you cant) but to bring out all possible opinions.Dineshkannambadi 16:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

If you have any books by Durga Prasad, Venkataramanayya etc please add citations to the Telugu origin section for completeness.Dineshkannambadi 16:58, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I have tagged the Telugu origin section of the above article because it lacks citations. Please find time to add citations. I have also cleaned up the Kannada origin portion. All info is published in the books quoted and hence cant be removed (but cn be discussed), whether you like it or not. I will do more research, something I love to do. In the end, we want to bring reliable and published info from all published sources to see balance. CheersDineshkannambadi 19:50, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Protection
You could find help at Requests_for_page_protection. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 05:03, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

No problem at all. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 08:27, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

History
Plz. have a look at WikiProject_History_of_India. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 09:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Reply
1.Can you tell me which fact has been distorted by me? Reply: This edit of yours is not based on fact: The script evolved from ancient Telugu-Kannada script, the origins of which can be found in the variant of Asokan Brahmi script written on the urn containing Buddha's relics, excavated from Bhattiprolu stupa in the Guntur district of Andhra Pradesh. If you are so confident that this is indeed the fact, why dont you come up with an appropriate citation from a scholarly article to substantiate it.

2.I made an input in the article with proper citation. Is it wrong? Reply: No, it is not wrong. But the citation has to be reliable, see WP:RS

3. Scores of Kannada related articles in Wiki refer to blogs, webpages, ameturish historians etc., (E.g. Jyotsna Kamath's Potpourri; www.ourkarnataka.com; www.prabhu50g.com; www.kamat.com etc.,). Kannada history articles copiously quote two authors viz., Kamat and Arthikaje. The former got his book published by a local publisher. The latter writes history in a website on Karnataka. By which standard they become authoritative historians? Reply: You already have a reply above on your questioning of Kamats credentials

4.On the other hand, the website I refer belong to a well-known lingusitand scgolar of Dravidian language scripts. Reply: The so-called person whom you claim as scholar has himself written on his website that the contents of this website are not scholarly. Here is a snippet from his website: ''{The material in this page is only a cursory presentation created to introduce the samples of inscriptions outlining the evolution of present day Telugu script. Knowledgeable experts are urged to make scholarly material about Telugu script available on the Internet.}''

5. When I question your conscience I question your hypocrisy too!Kumarrao 15:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC) Reply: No personal attacks, please. Please comment on the content, not on the person. Request you to read WP:NPA and understand it. -- Amarrg 10:11, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Conclusion
It is now absolutely clear that 'Adluri' and his webpages become authoritative for Kannada Wiki users to propagate 'Old kannada' theory and not reliable for users like me. What a pity? I do not know how to continue with this. Absolutely disgusting!!. I am losing faith in wikipedia. Kumarrao 14:28, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Your message
Kumar, Regarding your msg on my talk page: I thought the Kannadiga article issue has been resolved satisfactorily, thanks to Dinesh's latest changes. What else is bothering you ? Like I said before, if someone claims Adluri is not a reliable source for history, but at the same time uses it to further their claims, that is totally unacceptable. We only need to eastablish or disprove the reliability of a source at one place. In any case, let me know precisely what articles or issues you are trying to neutralize, I will try and contribute. Cheers ! Lotlil 15:33, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, at the proper fora
Please also take this issue up at the proper fora. I'm clearly lost and confused in this "Edit War." Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 05:13, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:Misuse of Wiki
A passing thought. Yes, there's tremendous scope to manipulate wikipedia for vested gains. There have been instances in the past where some users were caught citing from blogs (they wrote themselves), to develop their own personality!!!! There was one interesting incident in which one desperate budding poet, an Indian did similarly, and was forced to leave. See Articles_for_deletion/Nikhil_Parekh. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 07:26, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Genetics
Since you are into scientific research could you please throw more light on the ancestry of the Kammas especially with respect to their Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup or Human mitochondrial genetics. Which other communities are closely related to the Kammas? This could open a Pandora's box but also be invaluable to the article as well as the community. Hoping to hear from you soon. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 07:20, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

kannad terrorism in wikipedia
I assume ur also having problems with kannad zealots like sarvagnya, dineshkanmbadi and gang. Dont worry u r not alone many marathi users (me, mahwiki, arya, pratap), some other anonymous telugu users, few tamil users have experienced the stupidity of these kannad zealots. They have banned all those dare to oppose them. dineshkabaddi is especially notorious with its useless crappy shitty books of some kamath and uses them to associate each and every great kingdom with kannads. Their lack of bravity and glorious history adds to the fire and jealosy they have for others. I am doing BA in History and my UGC-central govt. approved book nowhere mentions Krishnadevrai was a kannad! And if u see the article all kannad shit is filled over it.

The Yadavas of devagiri are of pure maratha origin. I have even visited th devagiri in aurangabad district. If u speak abt their kannad origins ppl will laugh off. Dineshkabaddi is manipulating Maharashtra's histiory by associating all Maratha rulers with idiotic kannad roots. I think we must take action against them. User:sarvabhaum

Frankly, when I read this "Kamat potpourri" several months ago, I felt it to be biased towards the right wing or Kannada chauvanists. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 12:18, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

The "History of the Andhras upto 1565 A.D" is a good read. Its at History of the Andhras Regards, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 12:20, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * History of the Andhras

Many thanks
Hi! I read in that book (History of the Andhras.. pg. 138) as well as in another, that Jayapa was the son of an Ayya chief Pina Chodu/Chodi(funny name :)) of Divi. Ganapatideva's also known "Divi Churakara." My knowledge on this is limited to only these books.

One theory doing the rounds, on their separation, is their differing allegiances towards opposite camps in the aftermath of the Palnadu war. Yes, the "Buddhist migrants from the Gangetic plains" theory appears very convincing.

Any idea who the good samaritan who has given us the Barnstars WP:BS is?Regards, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 06:28, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

No clue
Thanks to the generous guy! I also did not know him. The strife between the social groups started during Palnadu war. It continued through Kakatiya times. Musunuris fostered the unity of all communities at a great cost. Jealousy reared its head when Kaapaya became the ruler of Warangal. Bahmanis succeeded in driving a wedge between both the groups. Singama and his sons killed Kaapaya and occupied Warangal but must have regreted soon when Bahmanis ultimately vanquished Padmanayakas.Kumarrao 06:58, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Jayapa Nayudu
Excellent idea! But though its Jayapa in history books/articles, shouldn't it be Jayappa. I remember some of my ancestors had names like Ankappa Chowdary etc. What do you feel? Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 04:42, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Jayappa Nayudu
Just to avoid confusion I've also created one with Jayappa. Were the Velanati Cholas also Kammas? Was Kammanadu also called Velanadu, later?

Weren't his sisters called Naramamba and Peramamba. I'm sure I remember the names right, from a history book, where I also read that they were Kammas. I corrected the 3rd sentence in the "Lineage" section-- minor typographical error. I've been to Chebrolu many many times. Incidentally, it has a large no. of people with the Vasireddy surname, incl. Sitadevi.

What does Pinna Choda (something to do with their former employers?) mean? Couldn't it be Pina Chodu (some parents take an oath in temples to give funny names to their children)? He could have just had a strong interest, like us in history?

Plz. start internal referencing your facts. That way vandals/trouble makers can't unnecessarily touch them. They can at the most challenge the reference source itself. Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 08:49, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

I created Jayappa Nayudu with the sole purpose of merging. Regards, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 10:30, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Vengi
Wasn't that area Vengi? The Velanadu article says that its the coastal area from the south of R.Krishna to Srisailam!!!! Srisailam and coast, quite ambiguous. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 10:44, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Telugu Cholas
Wikipedia articles say that the Velanati Chodas were a branch of the Telugu Cholas!! Does this mean that even the Telagas were related to Kammas (like the Velamas)!! Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 11:33, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Finally got the picture. Thanks --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 12:10, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Ancestry
All this history unravelling, is very fascinating and intriguing. I went through the "Ancestry" section. Good work! Could you comment on Kamma sub-castes such as Pedda, Chinna etc., though these are largely irrelevant today. Nowadays, it appears to be only the rich and the poor. Could you plz. throw light on the surname Paruchuri (Pogunulla) (from near Repalle)? What's this "Velugotivari Vamsavali", a book? I was in possession of this "Kammavari Charitra"? Could we embark on a translation project, to post online, by roping in others too? Your views? Thanking You, <b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 06:23, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Many Thanks
In fact my grandpa in Guntur, is in possession of this book. The problem is I can't read Telugu properly. Could you plz. tell me more about Paruchuri from the book, esp. the origin, very curious? I heard in that book about some Paruchuri people, near Madurai.

I wondered for quite a long timeAre Pedda Kammas on the basis of a surname, or could members of the same surname have Pedda and Chinna Kamma members?

In the translation, you could probably interpret the Telugu into English points (since I'm poor in Telugu.) I could form paragraphs from those, making them almost presentable. But the project could take some time. Some valuable service on our part to AP history. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 10:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Archiving and others
Thought this would be helpful, on archiving Help:Archiving_a_talk_page --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 11:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

This link, the Manual of Style's good Manual_of_Style--<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 11:54, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

References and Notes
The level 3 heading "Notes" is used to list all the references (internal), which are the sources cited immediately after a fact, with a number. This is the practice I normally stick to, when citing references. Plz. see Velagapudi Ramakrishna or ask me, to know how its done. Thank You. --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 04:56, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Re: Protection request
There was one revert today on Telugu language. The history doesn't seem to suggest the need for full protection. Both you and User:Gnanapiti should use the article's talk page for any discussion related to disputed changes. Additionally, edit summaries are always appreciated by all users. I'll monitor the page and I will protect it if it becomes necessary. Cheers. --MZMcBride 18:46, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Human GeneticsSome links
Plz. have a look at A Stanford research paper on some Andhra Pradesh communities, The Genographic Project's Atlas --<b style="font-family:Trebuchet MS;"> Altruism <sup style="color:green;">To talk </b> 12:49, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Chalukyas
You have tried to misrepresent a citation in Durgaprasad's book. Durga Prasad asys "like the Chutus and Kadambas" they were natives of the region". It is well known both were natives of Karnataka region. Nowhere does he use the word Cuddapah. All he says is the from the Moraturu grant, Some parts of Andhra were part of Chalukya Vishaya (district). Your Alduri citation is not from a historian. Also, dont put your citations in the LEAD. If you have any citations that you have not misrepresented, put it in the history section.  Also, we are aware that you are in commnunication with User:Sarvabhaum who is a banned user and that you are soliciting help from others.Dineshkannambadi 18:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Durgaprasad's theory that from the Moraturu inscription "they were natives of this region". Which region? There are plenty of theories who the Chalukyas were or came from in the 2nd century. Thats not the issue. They were natives of the Badami region from the time of Jayasimha and Ranaranga (5th century-ancestors of Pulakesi I). That makes them natives of Karnataka. Do you know what "native means"?.Dineshkannambadi 19:06, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Reply
Do not stoop so low 1. I have cited valid references which are quoted and cited by you many times in Wiki. 2. Who is Sarvabhaum? How am I connected to him? Is this your honesty and integrity? 3. What did you mean by soliciting? Show me one evidence. In fact, there are plenty of evidences in Wiki that you, Gnanapiti and Sarvagna etc., are collaborating with each other to silence other Users. Whatever little respect I had for your scholarship has now vanished because of your chauvanism. You are an absolute fanatic. I am extremely sad to make this statement. Kumarrao 19:08, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Here is the evidence you wanted.. BTW, Durgaprasad does not say they were natives of Andhra, he says they were natives of the region in general. Dont make up your own stories.Dineshkannambadi 19:10, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

June 2007
Please do not attack other editors, which you did here: User talk:Dineshkannambadi. If you continue, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Gnanapiti 19:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Instant message
This instant message shows the true colours.Kumarrao 19:20, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Maruturu grant
Durgaprasad says "Like the Chutus and Kadamba, the Chalukyas were an indigenous tribe......In the Marutru inscription of Pulakesi II, a village that was granted by him is said to be situated in the Chalukya Vishaya. It is therefore clear that the original word "Chalukya" was applied to a territorial division or vishaya of a kingdom. Like the Pugiyas, the Hiranyakas and the Dhanakas of the Ikshvaku period, the territorial division came to be known as Chalukya after the Chalukyan clan. The provenance of the Maruturu grant and also other factors mentioned in it clearly prove that this Chalukya Vishaya must have comprised portions of ceded districts of Andhra Pradesh including perhaps parts of Mehaboobnagar district of Telangana. Hence the Chalukyas were the original residents of this area."

Can you tell me what "Chalukya Vishaya must have comprised portions of ceded districts of Andhra Pradesh including perhaps parts of Mehaboobnagar district of Telangana" means.?

All it means is that this region comprising portions of AP were part of a larger Chalukya Vishaya. So you cant assume that they came only from the AP portion. Nowhere does Durga Prasad say that they were "Andhras". Infact, he clearly says "like the Chutus and Kadambas" they are natives of the region. Chutus and Kadambas ruled from Banavasi and were natives of that region.Dineshkannambadi 19:29, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Discuss first, edit later. You have one scholar on hand, I have provided 7 or 8 scholarly citations.Dineshkannambadi 19:31, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

-Do not delete or revert my inputs. Chalukya Vishaya initially comprised of modern Rayalaseema region (Kadapa, Kurnool, Anantapur and adjoining Palamuru/Mahboobnagar). Chalukyas migrated to Karunadu because of intense pressure being applied by Pallavas. I shall come up with more references. Haven't you started with one? Kumarrao 19:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

3RR on Chalukya Dynasty
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Chalukya Dynasty. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content which gains a consensus among editors. - KNM Talk 19:34, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Another
So, you are also one of them. Kumarrao 19:41, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Dont flatter me
Please dont flatter me about "respect for my scholarship". I dont think you had any respect for me. You have been going around with a staunch "anti-Kannadiga" feelings and some of your messages make that apparent. If you read the Chalukya article carefully, It was I who brought in the info on a possbile connection to Andhra Ikshvakus in the 2nd century. It was I who brought in possbile conections to Iraq, Ayodhya. So your claims of fanatism are just your own deepseated anti-kannada feelings. You went to the Origin of Vijayanagara Empire and tried to chide my citations. Did you bother to go the Vijayanagara Empire Literature article to appreciate the work I, and much later another user put in to bring info on both Kannada and Telugu scholars. Had you even heard of all those Telugu scholars other than the "Ashtadiggijas". I have nothing against you personally, and I hope you cool down, try to work with us to improve the articles, instead of making fun of Karnataka scholars, claiming Telugu origin to 6th century Chalukyas etc etc. India is a dynamic country, people have  moved around so much no one can really prove who came from where exactly. The only things that matter are; where did they live and rule from, what language did they patronise and what language their inscriptions/literature are in, where they built their monuments and what legacy they left behind. I see you claim to love History. This is what history is all about.Dineshkannambadi 21:12, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the two citations on the Kannada language page that caused the edit wars and lock up. Hope this puts an end to any concerns you have on that page.Dineshkannambadi 01:48, 30 June 2007 (UTC)