User talk:KuwarOnline/Archive 4

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'Welcome to my talk page! Feel free to leave comments, critiques, etc., below. Unless you specifically request that I answer on your talk page, I'll be answering here, as I prefer to keep as much of the conversation in one place as possible. Thanks!'

Mumbai
Please provide a direct quote from the book if you're going to revert. Gbooks has multiple sources that show the 42% number that the IP changed to. Just because we have the same text quoted in two different places, it doesn't make the number right. Also, please be aware of the three revert rule. cheers. &mdash; Spaceman  Spiff  13:32, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I just left message on your talk page for same, It was the reference title who mislead to me. anyways thanks for correcting.  KuwarOnline  Talk''' 13:39, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Kingfisher Xpress
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File permission problem with File:Palm Beach Raod.jpg
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File permission problem with File:NammaMetro.jpg
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Sabudana Khichdi
Hi,

I was just contributing. IMHO, the references do not imply that Sabudana Khichdi is only consumed in "Maharashtra". Its consumed in all the Northern parts of India, including J&K, Punjab, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh, Rajasthan, Gujrat, Delhi, Uttar Pradesh and Uttranchal. Secondly, I simply linked Sabudana to Tapioca, which was valid. The picture associated with article is also missing. Can you please add all this info to the article?

Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumar ldh (talk • contribs) 15:21, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi, If you have quality source which says that this dish is prepared all northern India, please let me know or u can directly update it. But till now dont changes anything, yes I have restored image to article. Thanks for message  KuwarOnline  Talk''' 04:47, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi,

I can post a slightly different recipe on a cookery site and can call it a "quality" source. I dont want to argue about authenticity or quality of the sources. There is not authoritative material, neither on internet nor in print, that says the said dish is limited to Maharashtra. 2ndly, linking to Tapioca was in no way harming or decreasing the quality of page, in fact, my friends in USA now know how to look for sabudana in Lucky's or Ross stores. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumar ldh (talk • contribs) 11:17, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi there, I have added some good source, but question is this article is not saying that is only prepared in Maharashtra. It says "It is usually prepared in Maharashtra". Also you can do some googling "Sabudana Khichadi maharashtrian recipe" u will get lots links says that its Maharashtrian Dish, About your second point you can do linking :)  KuwarOnline  Talk''' 12:10, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi,

If you still think my contribution is wrong I will come back and argue. You can involve Super Users. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumar ldh (talk • contribs) 18:22, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Please follow this link http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=&q=sabudana+khichadi&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B7GGLL_enIN386IN386&ie=UTF-8.
 * I am Punjabi Brahmin and have been observing fasts since I was 14 and Sabudana Khichadi have been in my diet even when I was in USA
 * My Gujrati friend also consumes Sabudana Khichadi in Navratri, so does my friends in Haryana, Uttranchal UP and relatives in HP & J&K do.
 * If you have followed the link I gave, the very first link will tell you that even Konkani love this dish.
 * Hi friend, I as said on your talk page, you can reverts my edits whenever you want just make sure that you add references while do it, I know you added in good faith to article, but to prove that we need to have source to support them, that it would not violate WP:Original thanks KuwarOnline Talk''' 18:39, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Kumar, I reverted edits again, I have added some sources like dna news paper, Indianexpress etc which can qualify WP:RS. KuwarOnline Talk''' 19:42, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, you and I both hate this. You need to point me to sentence on WP guidelines that say Apart from this, please give me authentic references that say Sabudana khichadi And, please please use sane browser that corrects spellings. I am not a Grammar Nazi but you mentioned in one of our conversation that you pay attention to what you type. I will request you to not to alter the text until and unless you have credible resources. Thanks.
 * if you don't provide references the content you contribute is not researched.
 * you can keep reverting changes and insist that your contribution is more "authentic" than some one else'
 * is "exclusive" Marathi dish
 * is cooked with ground peanuts only
 * its not chilli its chili
 * there is nothing as chilli powder\green chilli pieces, it is red chili powder
 * in "chilli powder\green chilli pieces" isn't correct, it should be "chilli powder/green chilli pieces"

Kumar Chetan Sharma 18:59, 25 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumar ldh (talk • contribs)
 * hmm ok, I wont say my contribution is more authentic than yours or other editors, unless I provide reference to it or anybody that contribution to wiki. off course, that reference should qualify WP:RS, If I dont provide any reference to my contribution then it will violate WP:Original. Just like the contribution you made to Sabudana Khichadi history. About your grammar point, if you able to see history of the page and my contribution to Sabudana Khichadi you will never see the changes/contribution about grammar by me, allegation you made in your comment, so I would advice you to see history of the page and contribution before alleging somebody. Anyways I have asked admin WOSlinker to comment on our disagreement. KuwarOnline Talk''' 20:04, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Pending changes/Straw poll on interim usage
Hi. As you recently commented in the straw poll regarding the ongoing usage and trial of Pending changes, this is to notify you that there is an interim straw poll with regard to keeping the tool switched on or switching it off while improvements are worked on and due for release on November 9, 2010. This new poll is only in regard to this issue and sets no precedent for any future usage. Your input on this issue is greatly appreciated. Off2riorob (talk) 23:39, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Do you know more about Gurgaon than I do or which references are irrelevant?
Hi KuwarOnline,

Obsolete and irrelevant references are not sacrosanct; nor do they hold good for all times to come. And it does not make an article any better by cluttering it with ten irrelevant references for one sentence just for the sake of providing references. Therefore I removed obsolete and irrelevant references. I did not temper with any template as you have erroneously written.

I wonder whether you took care to read the text (that took me two hours to write after careful deliberations) or used your privilege of undoing on the spur just because you have such a privilege.

I live in Gurgaon; you do not. I know what is a relevant reference for Gurgaon; you do not. I know what is the current status in Gurgaon; you do not.

You are a young software engineer and know how to use Java to undo someone's contribution done in good faith. After I studied BTech at IIT, Delhi forty years ago followed by MBA from Indian Institute of Management (IIM), one of the positions I held for many years was the CEO of an IT company where software was written and tested for many clients and therefore many user manuals and technical documents were also written. I had to guide some software engineers and technical writers how to produce good manuals and technical literature for better readability as they lacked skills to write compact and succinct texts.

Please do not use your privilege without carefully reading what has been contributed. It may turn out sometimes that the contributor knows more about the subject of the article than you do and knows more about editing an article than you do. Therefore you cannot mechanically undo a contribution without knowing about the subject or without analysing why some obsolete and irrelevant references have been removed.

I repeat: Obsolete and irrelevant references are not sacrosanct; nor do they hold good for all times to come. And it does not make an article any better by cluttering it with several irrelevant references for one line just for the sake of providing references.

Relevant references YES, should be provided; irrelevant references NO, not acceptable and should be removed.

And do not use words like "you may be blocked from editing": it reflects arrogance; there are better ways of conveying the same message.

Rao Ravindra (talk) 11:48, 21 September 2010 (UTC) Rao Ravindra
 * Thanks for message Ravindra, After reading your message what I understood is that you should read wikipedia policies first like WP:NPOV, No original research,WP:VERIFY etc. Nice to know that you have better understanding of writing documentation. But here we contribute to article based on some principles like WP:VERIFY, if you remove those then your not adhere to principals of what wikipedia believes in. I have gone through few references(not all) I found them relevant and you removed all of them. Its truth that Gurgaon dont have public transportation(except Delhi Metro, Bad roads, Water scarcity, Power cuts etc. let me explain why, I live in here from last 1.5 years(DLF City Phase III, block-U63], I work in Sapient Corporation DLF CyberGreens. If you still need me to explain I will surely, But truth is what is written on article. I left warning on your page just because you removed all reference like TOI, Indianexpress, Thaindian etc which is national news papers(quality sources). Again you if claim something like bad road you need to have sources/reference corresponding. We cannot write anything based on own point of view. Anyways please go through the links I provided above, edit as per those, nobody on wikipedia will ever stop you to update/contribute to articles, If you have any question/need help ask any senior editors or you can post your question on following New contributors' help page or leave me message on my talk page, I will be more glad to provide my assistance as per best of my knowledge, One more thing it wasnt any personal attack on you, please always assume good faith while leaving/sending messages on talk page please read WP:NICE, the message I left on your talk page I used WP:TW which has inbuilt messages, anyways if you interested, please attend first ever delhi Wikipedia meeting see Meetup/Delhi/Delhi1, I will be also attending that see you there. Keep editing and contributing to wikipedia. Thanks KuwarOnline Talk''' 17:14, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I would like to second Rao Ravindra's remarks. You can not use words like, "you may be blocked from editing". Please refrain from intimidating other contributors. FYI, Thaindian is not an Indian newspaper/journal. And please pay attention to the grammar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumar ldh (talk • contribs) 07:42, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi thanks for your remark, but certainly everybody has right to warn, as you warned me saying "Please refrain from intimidating other contributors", if ravindra had done it first time I wouldnt warn him instead of giving him caution notice as other editor given on his talk page, if user doesnt understand that than we need to warn him instead of giving caution notice. KuwarOnline Talk''' 07:53, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi, Here is the line I typed, "Please refrain from intimidating other contributors" and your line "you may be blocked from editing". Compare these and you will understand what sounds more intimidating.

Hi KuwarOnline,

I am currently visiting my son in San Jose in Silicon Valley, California, where he works as a computer hardware engineer in Cisco Systems. Therefore I will not attend any Wikipedia meeting in Delhi. Anyway, I have no intention of becoming an editor because I am happy working as a Senior Management Consultant.

You have lived in a new part of Gurgaon for one and a half years whereas I was born in Gurgaon district more than sixty years ago and have seen it grow from a small sleepy dusty town. I am familiar with its pulse and do not have only superficial knowledge. I contributed to the article on Gurgaon as Gurgaon is close to my heart.

I have studied the pages WP:NPOV, No original research and WP:VERIFY that you referred to. It is obvious that you look for trees (or rather leaves) whereas I look for woods. I strive for a well-written article based on well-documented facts whereas you look only for so-called references irrespective of whether they are based on facts or not or are mere gossip written for increasing the newspaper or periodical's circulation.

For example, in the Wiki article on DLF Ltd. you insisted on retaining the words "a multi-billion dollar business park in Bangalore,[8]" and, when someone removed it, you reinstated it in September 2010 because it had "quality source" reference. Did you realise that that the so-called "quality reference" was written in 2006 and things had changed radically in 2008-09 for realty sector in India and DLF in particular and the "quality reference" had become obsolete and therefore was no longer true and needed to be dropped? DLF dropped the plan in 2009 but you never caught up with the developments and reinstated the sentence in September 2010. Here is the new "quality source" reference from reputed Economic Times for your information: http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/real-estate/news-/DLF-nixes-mall-plans-offloads-Bangalore-property/articleshow/5486594.cms dated 22 January 2010. Will you now make amends and remove the sentence that you had reinstated as an "editor" of Wiki? And will you write to the person who had rightly removed the sentence? An essential prerequisite of becoming an editor is to know what developments are taking place and stay current - at least on the subject being edited.

Tell me what is "quality" in these sentences which have wrong grammar and capitalisation of letters at wrong places (the first sentence should not have capital "I" and the third sentence should not have "in" before "every"):


 * No public transport Infrastructure.[17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25]
 * Bad roads.[26][27][28][29][30][31][32]
 * Cars being stolen in every 4 minutes.[33][34][35][36][37][37]
 * Water scarcity. [38][39][40][41][42][43][44]
 * Power cuts.[45][45][46][47][48][49][50]

and compare them with the sentences that I had written:


 * No public transport is provided by the local administrative body. However Delhi Transport Corporation runs a few buses in Gurgaon.
 * Bad roads - a feature common to most cities in India.
 * Increase in crime such as car thefts.
 * Water scarcity as Gurgaon's climate is semi-arid and it does not have any river.

Thirty four references for just four sentences!! They used up more than 10KB. Of course, I could have let them remain and just corrected the grammar, diction and punctuation. Would that have made the article a "quality" article?

Do let me know because I am again going to improve the bad English diction and grammar and remove obsolete and doubtful references that clutter the article. It is my intent to make the article on Gurgaon compact, well-rounded, well-written and, of course, well-referenced.

Ir may help you to become a good "editor" if you improve your English because you wrote "sentence" as "sentance" while reinstating the sentence in the DLF article and wrote wrong grammar in some of your contributions. Writing articles or making good contributions to articles is somewhat different from writing codes for software program or Java applets.

Rao Ravindra (talk) 13:20, 22 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks for reply, Yes I do live in New part of Gurgaon but that really doesnt mean more or give me more authority to add or remove anything. Off-course I do have right to add/remove/update article based on above polices, so same you too have or every wikipedian has it. Please update any article you want, just adhere to those rule I referred above. If you want to write in better English please do so. Just that don't remove the sources or if u want to update with new one/latest please do so. Usually 2-4 reference per sentence are enough. If you want to remove obsolete reference, you can do, but I saw few of them which I found relevant, please dont remove all of them. or else if you want to remove e.g bad roads, then while removing please add your source in comments so that people know why you removed it. About my DLF reverts, the problem was while removing the sentence from article if the person would have added source in comments, nobody could have reverted it neither me or anybody. Nobody want to add wrong information to wikipedia. As I said earlier that we cannot add/remove/edit/update anything as we want, unless we have a reference/source for it, or else we are not adhere to No original research. Yes reference over the time get obsolete(not all but few), so if we have new reference which can say that the added info in the article is need to removed then add source to your comment while removing it, or if you want to update current sentence, update it and also update the new reference to it, so that people will know why you updated. People like me who watches these page invested lots of time to keep these article in good shape as per wikipedia guideline. Well about your question/suggestion "An essential prerequisite of becoming an editor is to know what developments are taking place and stay current - at least on the subject being edited." Yes I agree to it, but knowing our self really not matters until we have source to back our claim. So yes if we have good knowledge of subject its good to have, but we need source too. Now about my english as you said that I wrongly spelled Sentence as Sentance. I dont know how much you know about web browsers but while editing in web browser like Google Chrome or IE will show you red line under the wrongly spelled words, so that you can correct it also if you right click over the word you can see suggested words by browsers, Anyways before giving advice I think you should compare the old version of article and find out who did that. I just reverted the edits by IP, well here you can see what I did DLF History. You can understand what I did to article, I didn't added any word. Yes for other article it may have happened, let me know I will be more glad to correct them, about your last sentence "Writing articles or making good contributions to articles is somewhat different from writing codes for software program or Java applets." I dont know what you mean by that exactly, please explain me more, or you mean to say software/programmer dont have good command over english? or do they dont have good knowledge how to write articles? or you trying to say that s/w engg dont have that much brain to write good articles? I would really love to hear from you on this :), I m contributing to wikipedia quite long (more than 4 years) and created 65 articles, I thought I improved a lot on writing articles, but after your question I got doubt on it, please explain me more what you exactly mean by your last sentence. If you want to share some good info about creating articles please share so it may help me. Thanks KuwarOnline Talk''' 20:06, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

IMHO, you need to pay attention to grammar and start using a sane browser. If you had used FireFox 3.x you would have corrected english to English. and have never punched in dont but don't. Adding arbitrary number of references, that too news sources, won't make some thing credible. I will prefer providing studies and or research results. Last, writing document "System.out.println("Hello World!");" is totally different than writing "Hello World" or "Hello World!". If you pay attention both have different meaning. Kumar Chetan Sharma 16:28, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for advice on web browsers, but while replying on this talk page I really dont give that much attention to grammar thats why I use some time 'u' instead of 'you', but while writing article I really care for that, mean while about references you suggested that you would prefer research or studies than news articles, ok I think you should read WP:RS,WP:SOURCE it will surely clear all ur doubts. I dont know how much you guys know about java, why you relate here, but its create an impression that you guys looks like first year programmer who talk more than compile the programs. anyways just keep aside the Java part its really not related to our discussions here, we are here to contribute to wikipedia keeping in mind that we should adhere to wiki guidelines. I would really appreciate if we talk about wiki here than my profession its really nothing to do here, also if you read WP:NICE will surely give you idea how to interact with other editors and for what. It will help to create +ve environment here. KuwarOnline Talk''' 17:39, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, I am sorry if my comments offended you. I am not against you posting anything but I am against just dumping anything on Wiki. Kids refer to Wiki more than anything. And kids are future. So just for the sake of better future lets not dump information. And in my 10+ years of professional life, I never programmed in Java, there were always better options. Just kidding. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kumar ldh (talk • contribs) 17:59, 24 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Great to know friend, I m always with you for against dumping anything to wiki, that why wikipedia has set some guide lines which we follow while editing :) KuwarOnline Talk''' 18:18, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Grammar & content copying
Hi,

I have followed your contributions on Wiki. You have been citing WP guidelines to me and other contributors. I am really not sure which guideline says its OK to Don't think I am a grammar Nazi. I am not even graduate as per Indian education system and studied in Hindi medium till matriculation. I will suggest you to review your content before you publish. I hope you wont take my edits or comments in good spirit not otherwise.
 * mess up with grammar
 * copy paste content from other websites
 * start all the sentences with "its"

Kumar Chetan Sharma 19:53, 25 September 2010 (UTC)


 * hmm, I think you taking it all personal other wise you wouldn't replied like this, your are actually trying to show me wrong, anyways no point in discussing here, I will notified to other admins and show this to there notice board, I will provide you a link once I notified admins notice board about this. keep editing. KuwarOnline Talk''' 20:15, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi KuwarOnline,

I am back in India.

After seeing your attitude in talk with many persons where you keep on defending your indefensible actions, I strongly feel that you need an orientation course in editing before you can call yourself an "editor". You are wrong if you think that you can call yourself "editor" by citing some policies, reverting other persons' contributions, not keeping yourself up-to-date on the subject being edited but overriding others' well-thought contributions despite your poor knowledge of the subject being edited, writing wrong spellings, writing wrong grammar and above all not being humble and refuting to be believe that others may know more than you. It may help you in your career if you stick to your job in Sapient and forget about what you call "editing" - at least until you have learnt what is real editing.

I have better things to do in life. Therefore I will not write to you any more in view of your attitude towards others.

Rao Ravindra (talk) 04:35, 26 September 2010 (UTC)  Ravindra Rao
 * I dont blame you for reply like this one, but happens, when people like me ask other new editor to follow wiki guide lines. After making almost 9000 edits and 4 years on wiki I found you and kumar is first person who has problems with my edits(I m not saying I most expert person), and all about grammar, you literally blaming some thing which I never done. Please see history of page, then blame to others and stop making false claim which only affect you, yes believe it or not friend you have to follow wiki guidelines, there is no other way. Well about editing, thanks for advice, but on wiki you dont need to expert in writing article but to know what, why(notable) and how(guidelines) its as simple that. You just cannot add anything what they believe in true without citing proper reference. So just follow wiki guideline nobody will ever revert your edits and other editors also gave you same advice on your talk, I m not alone who has issue. So stop adding personal analysis. KuwarOnline Talk''' 10:19, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of National Peroxide
A tag has been placed on National Peroxide requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about about a person, organization (band, club, company, etc.) or web content, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. You may also wish to consider using a Wizard to help you create articles - see the Article Wizard.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag - if no such tag exists then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hangon tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. Shadowjams (talk) 06:27, 30 September 2010 (UTC)