User talk:Kwh/Archive 2008-01-27

Gallery of exemplars
Kwh, in an attempt to advance the discussion of standards at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Maps, I've started a gallery of exemplars. I've added your excellent Florida Political Map as an example. These maps could also serve as interim standards until the project establishes firm standards. This same approach could help establish other standards, such as for insets, fonts, etc. I hope that you and other more experienced mapmakers will help develop this gallery approach. Apprentice mapmakers find ourselves currently "at sea". :-> Tomcool 17:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Great work on the Abramoff stuff
Whew. A lot of great stuff there. I've done a first pass at breaking out Abramoff articles:
 * Jack Abramoff (still too big)
 * Jack Abramoff Indian lobbying scandal
 * Jack Abramoff Guam investigation
 * SunCruz Casinos
 * monetary influence of Jack Abramoff (not sure of the name, but where the listing of money to & fro goes, since that's the current media obsession)
 * list of Jack Abramoff-related organizations

But there's so much more info in the Refactor entry... The Cunctator 07:22, 24 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Nice work on Jack Abramoff Indian lobbying scandal. You're on a roll, I'm not going to interrupt right now .  Keep up the great work. -- Sholom 13:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Welcome back
Good to see that you didn't take too long of break. If you check his block log, you will see that 62.0.181.94 finally got himself a block. Maybe you will have an easier time working on the Abramoff articles now. Good luck! --StuffOfInterest 18:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff's Religion
I don't know if removing both Jewish activist references was fair, certainly you could argue doing it in the first sentence might be overstating it, but it is a relevant characteristic of Abramoff due, because it denotes one of Jack Abramoff Political motives, as explained by Abramoff himself. Abramoff stated that he felt that some of his work in the promotion of Israel and the Jewish religion justified many of his actions. Isn't this important to mention if it helps tell Abramoff's story in a balanced manner.--M4bwav 04:50, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's an extremely controversial topic in this article, with strong feelings from people on both sides. However, please provide a cite for this: "Abramoff stated that he felt that some of his work in the promotion of Israel and the Jewish religion justified many of his actions." I have done a lot of research on Abramoff and I have not read that. KWH
 * Roger that, I'll see if I can get an exact quote it is mentioned by one of the two lead reporters who broke the Abramoff story, you can see him explaining this motive of Abramoff, the reporter claims comes from his own interviews with Abramoff, which the reporter states in the CSPAN video for this show: C-SPAN Special on Jack Abramoff & the Tribal Lobbying Investigation - Part 2  (01/04/2006), I'm going to see if I can get an article with quotes mentioning what that reporter talked about.
 * The columnist name is Michael Crowley of The New Republic, he has written and interviewed Abramoff probably more than anyone else. Now I got to find that needle--M4bwav 15:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Found it " I have spent years giving away virtually everything I made, he said. Frankly, I didn't need to have a kosher delicatessen. That was money I could have bought a yacht with. I don't live an extravagant lifestyle. I felt that the resources coming into my hands were the consequence of God putting them there. ", this establishes his Jewish motivation, he was a deeply religious man.  I'm going to find a couple more quotes to lay this contraversy to rest.  Spin WatchJack Abramoff and Tainted Tzedekah
 * Good research on sources - just watch out. I got personally attacked by others just for trying to be a referee in the argument, and I'm not interested in seeing it explode again. I'm still trying to fully understand Jack's psyche and motivations for my own benefit, I'd be interested in knowing more as his behavior toward the tribes and some others was almost sociopathic in his lack of empathy, and in some cases psychopathic, but he still (as you say) maintains some belief in a moral basis for his actions. KWH
 * I concur, I've definitely got to make sure I can get a couple more quotes to solidify the argument, before I enter the fray, sounds like some people are going to get banned over this. I also agree that there are a million sides to Abramoff which is one of the reasons he's such a interesting subject matter.--M4bwav 17:28, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree with the conclusion. Yes, he may have compartmentalized himself, and in some areas of his life he was religious, but his talk about God, etc., with regard to his scandals seems (obvious to me) to be post-hoc justification and/or spin to put his actions in a more favorable light.  In fact, a more recent quote from him was this: "God sent me 1,000 hints that he didn't want me to keep doing what I was doing. But I didn't listen, so he set off a nuclear bomb."  (See http://www.time.com/time/verbatim/20060130/5.html).  No -- his motivation in the lobbying scandals were to make money, be a power player, see the success of the GOP agenda, and so forth. Sholom 13:25, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Revision
Thank you for reverting the antisemtic/anti-Israel material. -Brad (with the Jew-hatred watch) &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.250.193.168 (talk &bull; contribs).


 * Notice how criticizing any aspect of Israel becomes antisemtic [sic] and "Jew-hatred"? Notice, too, how you fan this bias by doing the grunt work for those who will, apparently, accept no discussion of Israel in the article even though Newsweek, The Hill, Bloomberg and probably other legitimate media sources thought this was one noteworthy aspect of the story. But we know why they reported it, don't we? Because they're Jew haters, of course. Needless to say, I don't appreciate your revert because of this manufactured "controversy." You slashed-and-burned the section to appease the Israel-firsters and you couldn't even bother to get the title of the Newsweek article right.--DieWeibeRose 08:58, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you DER - STRUM - ROSE.


 * I totally agree that pro-Israel groups are completely out of control, they essentially want to censor history from allowing any information that might cast a negative light on Israel from getting out. This is an insult to objectivity and it should not be tolerated.

--M4bwav 17:41, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I think they (and others) have every right to state their case as long as they do so civilly and without being disruptive. (which the anonymous IP contributors have been a little better at lately). KWH 05:49, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff E-mails
At Talk:Jack_Abramoff you wrote, "They are the documents at indian.senate.gov described as 'Exhibits released to the public as part of the Oversight Hearing on Lobbying Practices'." ...

I wrote, "Kwh, thanks for the link but there are six large PDF files there and I don't have a fast Internet connection. Would you please narrow it down to the particular file(s)?"--DieWeibeRose 08:43, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

I was going through some of those emails for my Italia Federici article, great find BTW. I was wondering should some of those be uploaded to the wikimedia, in case Senate Committee decides to take them down, or is it not wikimedia not a place for PDF files. Thanks for you time, --M4bwav 02:57, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Change Back
We find this "older" version to be more accurate and that you added the strange "Octagon" stuff as a way to please some of the AntiJewish, ANTI - "Israel-firsters" (We're really cracking up at that one as we thought that we had heard it all)..... Anyway what balance is it striking, its just plain weird. And not even proven. The FBI didn't speak with this "friend" maybe abramoff made it up or contrived it somehow. This isn't WONKETTE its an Encyclopedia. Its really not relevant and marginal at the very least.

-Brad


 * This is a primary source, direct from Abramoff's emails, made public in the Senate Indian Affairs investigation. I would imagine that the FBI has spoken to this individual, though it's not public record. There are numerous emails from 2001 and 2002. Abramoff made contact with a Russian Oil and Gas company in October 2001, who gave him a quote on a Russian military thermal imager. He forwarded the information to 'octagon1' and asked for an opinion on what sort of 'objective' should be purchased on the imager.
 * When they found out the Russian company would take 6 months to deliver, 'octagon1' replied:
 * "I will fax you a letter stating that I am purchasing this equipment for the IDF, and at the same time get a signed letter from the commander of Paratroop brigade 890 to' who this may concern' Mr Shmuel Ben Zvi Is purchasing this thermal device for us.... And we can go both to RAYTHEON and FLIR (near boston) who sells the better MILCAMEXP. Then we just need "end user" clearence from the State Department."
 * I could tell you where to find the emails, but maybe you should do a little of your own research. KWH 04:18, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds like he and his friend were doing all of this legally.

This is interesting and I downloaded the Senates Indian affairs material and read some of it myself, but it is non conclusive. Without the FBI's stamp of approvel we do not know if any of this ever came to fruition. All we know if that Jack spoke of it with a friend.

We made some changes in the article. It is of no concern to an Encyclopedia what a "reporter" wrote. We need governmental agencies to determine the facts for us. Or to concur with a reporters investigation. Thats not the case here. This is conjecture. So we should just stick to the facts. What the FBI suspects is OK, what the Senate reported is OK. But not Newsweek or Time. OH, Its ok if your writing for a Newspaper or magazine.Just not for an Encyclopedia.

-Brad

Israel Sniper School
Hey with your permission I was going to mention that the sniper school was in Israel, I won't make a big deal about it or anything, just a word or two. Don't you think it's a pretty important piece of information for a reader to know, it is unreasonable for a national to censor anything about their country. I think Brad might be chilled out now, to let it go. --M4bwav 21:48, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Catch me up, please!
Hey there -- I was away on vacation (and unconnected to the 'net) for 1-1/2 weeks. I need to get caught up. Did you do a full replace of the Abramoff article with your Refacted version? I want to make additions/edits/etc., in the correct place. Thanks! Sholom 13:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply on my page, I replied there instead of here, since there is where you left the comment. (Should I have replied here?).  In any event, I look forward to your response -- Sholom 16:21, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for cleanup
Thanks for cleaning up the vandal dropping on my talk page. I seem to be doing good at upsetting people this morning. :) --StuffOfInterest 13:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

NetVision IPs
Yup I guess your right, the only way to really track him down would be to get query the ip, but no cares that much.--M4bwav 21:53, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The History of Abramoff
Fantastic work, finding the initial article. The amazing thing, that I don't think the public is aware of, is that Abramoff was actually under a lot of scrutiny for a long time there were a lot of people who had a good idea of what he was up to. But they didn't drop the hammer, until the situation got to out of control.--M4bwav 04:19, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I edited your comment
I don't think that WP:AGF is ever thrown out the window, but I know what you mean. I've struggled with this too. As long as this individual responds respectfully and rationally, then we should do the same. If they become disrespectful, we should either ignore or remove the disrespect, and refocus the discussion on the actual issue at hand (the content of the article). Dwelling on past actions only keeps us from moving onward and past this issue. KWH 20:12, 6 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Word, I'm not a hater I'm a.., yeah, I usually skip out on flame wars. I don't think there will be many more problems in the future since there are so many admins watching the page anyway.  Perhaps the dude will chill out, and find some evidence to support his view point.--M4bwav 20:20, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Jack Abramoff Edits
Kwh wrote: ''Your comment betrays the fact that your own intention in editing is to criticize Israel, not inform the reader about Jack Abramoff. And I find it laughably ironic that, in trying to keep the article focused on the subject matter at hand, I'm accused of anti-semitism and pro-semitism appeasement simultaneously. Guess I'm doing something right.''

My intent was not to criticize Israel but to document and tell an important part of the Abramoff story--where some of his ill-gotten funds went and why they went there. That is legitimate information for the article even if some people don't like it. By the way, I never said or insinuated that you are engaging in "pro-semitism." I have no idea what you motives are but judging by your talk entries my guess is that philo-Semitism is not one of them or at least not the main one.

As for your conclusion, "Guess I'm doing something right." This is fallacious reasoning on your part. The name of the fallacy you have fallen victim to is the golden mean fallacy or fallacy of moderation.--DieWeibeRose 07:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Replied at User talk:DieWeibeRose. KWH 18:06, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Replied at User talk:DieWeibeRose.--DieWeibeRose 11:55, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I noticed there is a "Category: Articles lacking sources" at the bottom of Talk:Jack Abramoff. I find that kind of weird. First off, it's on the Talk page, not the main article. Secondly, there are plenty of sources on the main article. I would have removed it, but I am a fairly new wikipedian, and don't know the rules/etiquette surrounding that category. Please advise? Sholom 13:59, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

As to your most recent edit of the pic -- WADR (and I mean that becuase I've enjoyed working with you) -- I'm not sure what the point of it was. In particular, "Abramoff cut an imposing figure in a dark black trenchcoat and matching hat." seems POV. -- Sholom 15:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Whoo hey Wiki drama (SpinnWebe AfD)
Wow, thanks for the research, KWH...though really, now that he's gotten his pound of flesh I don't think all that was necessary. But I think even the main DFC article cinches it because it says "SpinnWebe...uses Keane's cartoons".

I didn't even remember I was in the Washington Post for the Nipple Server. Huh. Did you LexisNexis this, or something? --Spinn 04:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

KWH, I like your point about Wikipedia being weak on web history. There are a lot of sites (like Mirsky's) that have virtually sunk into a black hole now. I guess the Wikipedia way of dealing with this is to start a Wikiproject? If there was something to urge the history-gathering process on a bit, I'd sure be glad to help. Zompist 21:48, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

SpinnWebe
Why did you add a speedy deletion template back to SpinnWebe? There is currently a huge discussion of the notability of the article at Articles for deletion/SpinnWebe, that also explains why db-repost is not applicable. It's only got one more day before that AfD is closed, so unless you're anxious, maybe you can let consensus run its course. KWH 00:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Articles that have been previously deleted by consensus may be eligible for speedy deletion under CSD:G4. Since this is disputed, I have no problem leaving it to AFD. Stifle 00:40, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I would point out that the article was not substantially the same per CSD:G4, since sources were added which show notability per WP:WEB. KWH 02:58, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately as I'm not an admin, I could not determine that. Stifle 09:31, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand. Thank you. KWH 12:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

RFC conversation
I have responded on my talk page. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:03, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Image:James-rouse.gif
Hey thanks with that image. I think it preety clear by now that the user does not understand fair use, and is more intrested in just deleting the files. If you would not mind, i might need your help with several other images. --Boothy443 | trácht ar 04:40, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Jack Abramoff image
Now that is an appropriate use of fair use. Good work! - Ta bu shi da yu 06:16, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Does Crown Copyright apply in the U.S.? I know nothing of this issue. - Ta bu shi da yu 11:23, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds complex. My take is that we need to define Crown Copyright better, however it's probably best to treat it as a non-free license and use fair use as per normal to cover ourselves. This means fair use rationales, use the sparingly, etc. - Ta bu shi da yu 22:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * You realise, of course, that what you are asking me for is how a U.S. court will apply the laws of different countries in the U.S.? The question is: does the U.S. recognise Crown copyright, given that the U.S. is not part of the Commonwealth. After all, the content is currently being stored in Florida, and yet the license being used is a law that does not immediately apply in the U.S.. I don't believe we even deal with this in enforcement of foreign judgments :-) Interestingly, however, our article Private international law does cover this very topic... However, is there case law that applies to Crown Copyright? Is there are treaty between England and the U.S. that covers intellectual property rights? I would imagine there is. If there is, and it covers Crown Copyright, then we could say that "This images is licensed (bad word, I know) under crown copyright, which is recognised under U.S. law." Have you considered asking WP:RD or WP:HELP? - Ta bu shi da yu 04:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, the question you ask is not easy to answer. You must take into account extra-terratoriality, treaties and conflicts of law. And IANAL. - Ta bu shi da yu 21:35, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

COTW
Hey, can you please consider voting at Collaborations_of_the_Week/History_of_the_World_Wide_Web for the History of the World Wide Web article. Thanks! — Wackymacs

Controversy on Rumsfeld Controversy
Thanks for stepping in on the Donald Rumsfeld page, though I'm not sure how much it will help. It seems that this guy just has an axe to grind about Rummy and doesn't understand the idea of a reference article. Him not having a registered User ID doesn't make working with him easy, either. Anyway, thanks. ka1iban 15:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I took your advice and went to the Cabal; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/2006-03-17_Donald_Rumsfeld#Request_Information  We'll see where it goes from there... ka1iban 15:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I made a mistake and removed the Rumsfeld issue from arbitration. Now I'm thinking of putting it back.  But can they really help with this?  Can this guy be reasoned with at all? ka1iban 15:22, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

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COTW Project
You voted for History of the World Wide Web, this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. PDXblazers 19:44, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma moved
Hi, I changed the AfD on Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma to an WP:RfD instead, and copied the votes; it is, after all, a redirect. --MJ( &#x260E; 08:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff template
See my reply to you, on my talk page. Merecat 21:22, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

See 2nd reply, my talk. Merecat 08:03, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff image
I'm sorry, just working from WP:Copyright Problems, I didn't know the wider context regarding the image's deletion listing. Had I known I would have been reluctant to go ahead with deleting the image. I was basing my decision on the simple principle of fair use requiring no free alternatives, but as you say, there are wider considerations (commentary on the hat etc.) Mark83 21:34, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Map of South Africa
Thank you so much for that, I really appreciate your effort, don't know how you did it so fast. Cheers! Philc TECI 18:30, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank You
Thank you for the barnstar. I've been on Wikipedia since August 2004, and yours is the first barnstar I've ever received. I'm actually quite grateful. =-) &mdash; Mike &bull; 16:16, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank You
Thank you for your comments on WP:ANI. I really can't tell you how very much I appreciate that sort of a statement. I've put a lot of work into Wikipedia and not gotten a lot of that sort of comments, and I gotta tell you, it's like a drink of water to a Sahara-crossin' man. &mdash; Mike &bull; 00:55, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

TWS
Not really sure what you want me to contribute. She has a moral/belief system that is incompatible with the rules of wikipedia. In my phone conversation she made it clear that she believed it's ok to make a personal attack in response to a personal attack against her. When she was blocked for doing that she felt the admin who blocked her was in the wrong. She will never be a happy contributor. ---J.S (t|c) 15:13, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

More scandals
A few independant thoughts:


 * I asked User:John Broughton if he would join me in attempting to write an article on the potential scandal between Congressman Lewis, the lobby firm started by Lowery, etc. We started with just a data collection dump into a temp area, at User_talk:John_Broughton/Lewis-Lowery-Shockey-White_lobbying_controversy, and from that have started to make an article at User talk:John Broughton/Jerry Lewis - Lowery lobbying firm controversy. As I was writing this morning, I noticed that User:User At Work had created an entry for him, so I just alerted him to the project. This seems similar to the project you did with Jack Abramoff, so, I wanted to alert you to this project, too.  We were thinking of "going public" on Friday.


 * If you're not interested in yet a whole other huge scandal (in terms of "players", etc., it rivals Abramoff in scope, imho), there is still one Abramoff story that has not yet been written about much here -- and that is the Marianas Islands. If you're interested in that, I'd like to help/be involved/etc.


 * Yet another huge scandal is the Ohio Workers fund. Coingate is apparently only part of the story, that is enveloping a huge part of the Ohio Republican leadership.  (I have some ideas at User:Sholom).

-- Sholom 15:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

This Legal Times article says that "Roger Stillwell, the desk officer for the Mariana Islands at the U.S. Department of the Interior who dealt closely with disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff, is expected to plead guilty to a misdemeanor count of false certification, his attorney confirmed Wednesday." I think the time has come for a Marianas Islands article. I've left a similar note to User:John Broughton) -- Sholom 19:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * You wrote: Thanks for the heads up, I have been somewhat busy with things off-wiki but will try to get up to speed on these matters. I've also been interested in creating maps (know any articles that need a map?)


 * I'm going to start with a "data dump" at Jack Abramoff/CNMI. FYI: this evening I am going on vacation for a week and will have no access on-line until next Wednesday. -- Sholom 13:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Abramoff "Scandal" vs "Controvery"
Please see this request to change the name. -- Sholom 13:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Comments
Your latest post to the What Really Happened AfD said what I've been trying to allude to over several posts much more succintly. Good show.--Isotope23 18:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, I was just going to drop you a note complimenting your excellent work on that page, but Isotope beat me to it. I'm glad that you were willing to take the time and explain that an encyclopedia has standards. You said it well :) --Doc Tropics 05:01, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned fair use image (Image:Time Cover Abramoff.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Time Cover Abramoff.jpg. I notice the 'image' page currently specifies that the image can be used under a fair use license. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. &mdash; Rebelguys2 talk 05:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

your opinion, please
I'd appreciate your opinion on matters in the Discussion of article "Dissident Voice". Thank you. Ste4k 16:15, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Pic
Bro, i dont get why you removed those logos. If your problem is that they are JPG, its not valid since they are saved in JPG as the original format: nothing is lost and nothing would be gained by having them made non-jpg.--Striver 22:13, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm... im starting to see your point. Hm.... "reasonably familiar". Its tricky. Im sure its not "reasonably familiar [to the entire earth]", but rather, "reasonably familiar [to those who are familiar with the logo]", right? --Striver 22:45, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

First image on web
Thanks for the note. I'm not a techie guy, so I defer to your clearly much better knowledge about the technology. I get the sense from reading the Cernette picture website that the claim being made is simply about photographs, and that the "first image on the web" line was more something written by the press reporting it or paraphrasing "first picture". "First Image" is a more sweeping suggestion than "first photo" or even "first picture" (I think its a bit illogical that TBL would choose the first image to be a scanned colour photo (rather something simple like an already computerized CERN logo). Obviously, please free to modify my statement to better reflect the technical history in the context of what TBL is stating on his page (which I was taking literally, without any context knowledge of my own) Bwithh 07:20, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

3arabworld.jpg
Hello, you have sent me a message that you had to remove the image "3arabworld.jpg", i need an image of the Arab world and i want it to be used in the template please, can you some how help me with that plz? MARVEL 12:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the map you have made.. Image:Map of League of Arab States countries.png but this map wasnt exactly what i want,please will you make a map of the Arab world that include "Israel",Western Sahara, Eritria and the coast of iran¹ and exclude comors i want all Arab countries to be given green colors.

¹ http://www.al-ahwaz.com/AhwazHistory/documents/images_doc/ahwaz_arab_map.jpg

My best wishes MARVEL 20:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Ahmadinejad pic
Image:Ahmadinejad-and-Nasrallah.jpg

Hello,

What is the copyright status of this picture?  Tewfik Talk 07:35, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The picture appears to be created and copyrighted by the Iranian Student News Agency and Hamed Noori. Although a US court would theoretically not uphold a copyright suit, Jimbo has indicated that we should respect the foreign copyright nonetheless (here). I would say that it should be used according to standard fair use policy, with the Non-free fair use in tag and appropriate Help:Image page. It's respectful to the rights of the author, and it's what would be expected if Iran had a democratic revolution tomorrow and joined the free world. KWH 14:15, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks,  Tewfik Talk 14:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I have updated Copyrights.--Patchouli 17:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Question about locator dots on maps
Hi - Have you noticed the question I posted at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Maps? I'd really like to hear from some of the map "regulars" about this. And if you have any ideas for other ways I might solicit responses, please let me know. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:58, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Cyrus images
Hello, those two images were not licensed, the websites which i added in the summary has granted all images from their website to be used as long as their webadress is mentioned in the summary, same goes for iranchamber.com. So my guess was GDFL, however i do not know why you say they are copyrighted. -- Spahbod  ☼  06:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry if i acted against policy, but you should correct many other pictures from those websites i mentioned. I uploaded the images after seeing the very same summaries on other images frmo those sites. If a website says the you can use the images as longas you mention our name in the summayr what license would that be? and what would i have to include in the article besides the adress? -- Spahbod  ☼  07:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I see, OK thank you for your help. -- Spahbod  ☼  07:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I had uploaded two more images besides those you put no license tag on. I have now put no license tag on them as well, and again sorry for my errors. -- Spahbod  ☼  02:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Re:Cyrus the Great
I just wanted to thank you for your input on the discussion, KWH. You really made a difference. Once again, thanks. ♠ SG →Talk 13:46, 26 July 2006 (UTC) SG, i wouldn't joy too soon if i were you :). -- Spahbod  ☼  02:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Deletion of images
User:Darkred was my previous account. I have stopped using it and made this account. Regarding your suggestion of deletion of all my uploaded pictures. Perhaps one or two images was not properly sourced, then you decided that the rest of them were too? I have about 2000 pictures in my HD. I take alot of pictures, but also have downloaded many from web. Like i mentioned before all the ones i put selfmade tag on were my own, however there is a chance that one or two of them were not mine and got replaced by webuploaded images. The picture of Homa which you found another copy of in the web is probably not mine then, i have about 20 pictures of Homa in my HD. But the rest are mine with 90% certainty. -- Spahbod  ☼  03:08, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not doubt what you say. Please note that I tried to consider each instance with an unprejudiced mind; for those which could not possibly be GFDL-self or GFDL-no-disclaimers, I removed the tag and used nld and/or nsd. I used this method, which allows one week for someone to correct the information, as opposed to more aggressive means like WP:CSD.
 * Images which could possibly potentially be your picture (like Image:Perse.jpg, Image:Saadi X.JPG, or Image:Pars4.jpg) I have left alone, for the time being. Many of the other photos have the tell-tale appearance of being scanned from a book (rather than a digital photo or being scanned from a photo print). Those which I tagged with ifd I have a good reason to believe are not your photos. I also used imagevio only in cases where I am certain it is not your photo.
 * I would say if you want to assert that specific images were taken by you, please respond to them at WP:IFD.
 * Also, I understand and believe that you have your images "mixed up" with others on your hard drive, but you have to understand that when you upload an image as GFDL-self, you are basically donating something to Wikipedia and the millions who use it or will use it, so if you're not 100% sure it's yours, then you are donating something which belongs to someone else, as surely as if you had walked into their house and started renting their belongings out. I think you would agree that is not right, yes? KWH 08:42, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Just letting you know that the Image:Saadi X.JPG is in fact a copyvio from the Islamic Republic News Agency website. I won't tag it, for fear that Spahbod will simply remove my notice, so I'll let you do it. Honestly, I don't see why there is such huge variation in the quality of photos if he indeed took them. ♠ SG →Talk 15:50, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

First of all SG, you cant read persian so i wonder how you could come to the conclusion that mine is the copvio of theirs and that they have not downloaded from wikipedia. Regarding variations of my photos lol, what you think is irrelevant. So why don't you keep your suspicions and thoughts for yourself and let us handle this. Thank you, -- Spahbod  ☼  18:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, really? According to the file information on the IRNA website, it was created on Sat, Dec 10, 2005 at 1:30:34 AM. The image on Wikipedia was uploaded 03:41, 29 April 2006. Are you suggesting the IRNA has a time machine? And don't jump to conclusions about my knowledge of Persian based on the lack of a Babel box on my userpage. ♠ SG →Talk 18:44, 29 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Ah, really? So what if the file was created earlier than i uploaded mine, i have used my pics in many forums. However like i said to KwH some of the pics i uploaded except the ones below could be from the web, so SG i appreaciate you go taking so much of your own time searching the web to find a copy of the picture so we know that it may have been someone else's. Good work, -- Spahbod  ☼  18:53, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't worry, it only took about a minute to do a Google Image search. If you really did use it on other forums, at least one hit would have come up on there. The only other use of the image is a stretched out version on this Geocities site to fit a 4:3 screen.
 * Really, you didn't have to be so evasive; it would have taken less than a minute of your time to say "I did not take this photograph, it is from [whatever website] and doesn't belong to me." ♠ SG →Talk 19:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Lol, don' worry? took only one minute? evasive? Accusing me of lying? I have adviced you to behave civil before, i now do it again. Its very simple, behave civil or be blocked, which do you prefer. Like i said to KwH some pictures i uploaded could have been from the web. I guess i could have searched the web myself before uploading them. But whether it took you one minute or 50, i appreciate you taking your time to find the ones that are not mine, the task would have been made by KwH sooner or later, you did him a favor :). -- Spahbod  ☼  19:55, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

KwH, i have scanned this pictures from real pictures that i took, and not digital ones, so i know these are mine 100%: * Image:Hafez_Fixed.jpg (talk | delete) Uploaded by Darkred (notify). ditto KWH 09:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC) * Image:Hafez_clean.jpg (talk | delete) Uploaded by Darkred (notify). ditto KWH 09:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC) * Image:Hafez_Small.jpg (talk | delete) Uploaded by Darkred (notify). ditto KWH 09:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC) * Image:Hafez_X.jpg (talk | delete) Uploaded by Darkred (notify). ditto KWH 09:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC) * Image:Parsa_Small.jpg (talk | delete) Uploaded by Darkred (notify). ditto KWH 09:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC) * Image:Parsa_clean.jpg (talk | delete) Uploaded by Darkred (notify). ditto KWH 09:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC) * Image:Parsa_X.jpg (talk | delete) Uploaded by Darkred (notify). ditto KWH 09:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you, -- Spahbod  ☼  18:31, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
 * My suggestion is to state your case at the IFD page. Even though I may have no reason to doubt your claim, it is the Wikipedia community which will have to decide. You might provide as much information as possible to buttress your claim - the date on which you took the picture, for instance. KWH 05:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

nice work with the shock and awe sandbox page
Looks like I got banned as ED_MD. I have little to understand the reason why. Maybe I can keep clean and avoid problems with a new profile. Pseudotumor 08:43, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks... While I don't know the details of the ban either, and won't presume to judge one way or the other, I would say that you might have been a little intemperate with Striver recently. Although I think it's true that you were somewhat provoked, it weakens your case on the article if anyone looking in from the outside thinks that you are the one losing your cool. I think that you had all the right arguments about content and policy, but they succeeded in making you look like the "angry one".
 * Just keep cool and pretend we're all discussing this over tea. If you start to get angry, step away from the keyboard and do whatever it takes to get it off your mind, and then return to it with a fresh mind. I've done it myself where I have written several paragraphs, thought about it, and then closed the browser window without saving the edit. Then, I come back later and write one sentence which is far more effective. Be well, KWH 09:13, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

one of them
If you're at all curious, this is the one I've begun on. Feel free to contribute if you'd like. It's nowhere near ready for actual review, but I think it has an extremely fair base as I've started to set it up, that would prevent abuse outright, and make it fair for those nominated, with a pretty massive timeframe/window for review in each case. rootology (T) 19:53, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

re: RPA discussion
Again, I believe that you have misinterpreted the disputed WP:RPA guideline; that you misread my comments; and that you have selectively applied your own concept of "personal attack", ignoring other commenters reference to WCityMike as "The guy clearly has some personal issues", and (the final) calling his essay "a long, meandering whine... tepid, tedious stuff..." The quoted sections you removed were presented neutrally, and directly applicable to the nominator's contention that the essay contained incivility directed at Wikipedians; removing it was inappropriate, as was your explantory response that followed. Perhaps some of the commenters during the MfD didn't make it through the entire blog posting-- which was why I pointed out to the rhetoric from there, "'...Did I truly want to tremble at the awesome autocratic Objectivist might of Jimbo Wales, Danny Wool, and the WP:OFFICE dictat — or of the various hidden cadres, cabals, and cliques of internal cachet and power that I might cross unawares? Were any of these people deserving of my respect? Or were they just fucking twerps without a life on a massive power trip? In short — I realized that Wikipedia, the way it was, simply wasn’t an organization that deserved my time or efforts. They don’t really deserve anyone’s time or efforts, and if you’ve left them, well, then, God bless you, my friend.'"Which certainly sounds pretty much like an expansive personal attack to me, and one which wouldn't have been in the least acceptable had it appeared on a user's own page. -- LeflymanTalk 18:27, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Nasrallah Kissing Khamenei's Hand


has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing! You could say that it is possible for Iran Politics Club to be infringing upon copyrights. However, you have no proof of it and cannot verify it by showing that it belongs to the archives of another news organization.

If you want to contest it, please contact them and explain why you believe the Website needs to be reprimanded.--Patchouli 10:07, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Determining whether the source and license information for an image is correct and credible enough for Wikipedia to use the image is pretty much what WP:PUI is for. People can look at the link and judge for themselves. Also, since Wikipedia's goal is to be a Free Encyclopedia, generally when there is a doubt of whether the image is Free or an insufficient fair use rationale, images are deleted. There's not a compelling reason to keep the image in question because there is a doubt, and it is not necessary to include the image describe or prove the fact that the meeting took place. (MEHR News does have a citable article on the meeting, as well as many others.) Regards, KWH 00:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)


 * You do have valid points. However, I will leave it for other to decide and will move on to other tasks.  Thank you.--Patchouli 01:23, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Your move request
Regarding your move request at Talk:PC(USA) Divestment from Israel, please follow the steps for requesting a move, including listing at WP:RM, so a proper consensus can be achieved. Thanks. —Wknight94 (talk) 04:27, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Image:Kuro5hin logo.png
Isn't this being used legitimately? It's a logo and an important part of their website. - Ta bu shi da yu 12:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Image:Nobel prize medal.jpg
I have edited the information about this image to clarify things. I hope this helps. Let me know if you think I should add anything else. Hjb26 09:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Shock and awe mediation
Hello, I've decided to mediate the Shock and awe case. Sorry it took so long. Anyways, there's some questions you can answer here. Thanks! Armedblowfish (talk|mail|contribs) 17:26, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Image:Time_Cover_Abramoff.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Time_Cover_Abramoff.jpg, has been listed at. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Abu badali (talk) 19:48, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Nobel Prize Image
Hi Kwh! I believe your input would be very valuable and much appreciated in this discussion concerning the use of this image (which is my own work). So, if you could sacrifice a few minutes, it might help considerably. Thank you in advance. Best, aNubiSIII  ( T /  C ) 17:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

MfD nomination of WikiProject Early Web History
WikiProject Early Web History, a page you created, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Early Web History and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of WikiProject Early Web History during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. Ham Pastrami (talk) 17:34, 20 February 2008 (UTC)