User talk:Kyoko/Archive12

{| width=100% style="margin-bottom: 0.5em; border: #ba77fe solid 2px; -moz-border-radius: 10px; background: #D8BFD8;" My talk page / ma page de discussion / 私 の 会話ページ

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 Welcome to my talk page!

Archives January 2006 - July 2006 August 2006 - 18 September 2006 19 September 2006 - 15 October 2006 16 October 2006 - 29 October 2006 29 October 2006 - 4 November 2006 5 November 2006 - 14 November 2006 15 November 2006 - 2 December 2006 3 December 2006 - 20 December 2006 20 December 2006 - 18 January 2007 19 January 2007 - 3 March 2007 4 March 2007 - 30 April 2007 30 April 2007 - 25 May 2007

Please follow these guidelines for my talk page:

1. Please be civil and respect that this is my ''talk page. That means avoiding excessive images (barnstars and smileys are fine, within reason), not treating my talk page as your personal chat room, and not altering your comments after the fact.''

''2. Please sign your messages by typing ~ or by using the edit toolbar. The automated signature button is the one to the right of the crossed out "W".''

''Please understand if I do not respond immediately. Also please be understanding if I do not answer your message in the order that it was received, or if I do not answer your message at all. I just don't have the time or energy to respond to everyone, so please accept my apologies if your message goes unanswered.''

''I will ordinarily answer on your talk page, unless requested to do otherwise. Thank you!''
 * —Kyok o

WikiProject King Arthur
Hey Kyoko, we've crossed paths before, and I think you do some pretty great work on our Arthurian articles. I'd like to ask you to join WikiProject King Arthur, a project that was just started to improve our coverage of the Arthurian legend. We'd be thrilled to have you, if you want to join.--Cúchullain t/ c 06:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Your post on User talk:Riana
Good evening (GMT time); I happened to notice your post (above) at Riana's talk page ... this little tool worked wonders for me ;) see you around! Regards ~ Anthony 22:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

For you
 Having a mother who's passionate about gardening means that I've inherited the habit of associating flowers with personality traits, and people, and when I saw this image I immediately thought of you. The complex layers, each as beautiful as the next. The calm elegance and poise. And of course, the deep heart. I'm not poetic, I don't have a way with words, and I don't tell my friends how I feel very often, but just a message to let you know that I'm glad to call you my friend, and no matter what, I will always defend your actions, try to lift your spirits, and do my best to keep you safe and happy. All the best, my wonderful Kyoko! – Rianaऋ 19:10, 1 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I have to second this. You are really a wonderful person Kyoko, and I'm sorry I don't say that very often. &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  03:25, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

My dearest Kyoko
I'm quite in a hurry now, my dearest Kyoko, but I didn't wanna leave without telling you I'm missing you, and I hope you're doing fine. Sweetie, I'll email you tomorrow, there's much I wanna tell you, k? Please rest, and take care. Love you! :)  P h a e d r i e l  01:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Email for you, Kyoko girl! Love,  P h a e d r i e l  - 21:04, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sweetie, no reply is needed, specially in your situation. Just relax, be happy, and enjoy your day, I knew you were out and wanted to give you my best wishes. Just go and seize the day, this old friend of yours will always be here when you need her :) Now go, and be happy! Love,  P h a e d r i e l  21:22, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello Kyoko
How's your cinco de mayo day so far? Bunny-chan 23:28, 5 May 2007 (UTC)Bunny-chan

Thanks
My day has been good. Had some plans, but they got canceled. Hey, I was wondering. Are colored user names just limited to admins or can regular users have them too? User:Bunny-chan

You're back!!!
Nice to see you back on Wikipedia! I know that this might not be the right time to be on Wikipedia due to your stress.

Putting our differences aside, do have some gingerbread. My mom's friends gave gingerbread cookies to her when she had to recover from a disease. I hope you feel better!--Ed  ¿Cómo estás? 02:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, no! It's not a problem. I've had the same experience, too; my "angry" side came out a few days ago in real life due to the stress that I've had here. I guess WP can do lots of things to your social life if you're not careful.--Ed  ¿Cómo estás? 14:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes...I can see the predicament that Dev's in now. I've contacted her again, and hopefully she won't be removing people's messages again.
 * I see that you've been aware of this. She's apparently not interested in dealing with this anymore...--Ed  ¿Cómo estás? 00:07, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Is it fair that Dev still continues to revert a huge majority of my edits to WP:ESP and to her talk page? Doesn't it bother you that Dev removed "sics" and a footnote from the essay without explanation? Doesn't it seem strange that she continues to fight over editing rights to the essay, even if she hasn't provided any diffs or other evidence to support her statments? On her comments on WP:ANI, she stated that "This isn't so much about the essay, it's about the right of one person to get away with ignoring community consensus and forcing his own way." First of all, she just proved my theory that she has no reason to prohibit me from editing the essay except for personal intolerance towards me! Since February, the only major edits that she actually accepted were those of Moreschi and Steve block's! She is motivated to continue this conflict with personal reasons. Second, Dev's statement still seems to think that I'm "ignoring community consensus" and forcing my own way. Again, Dev never proved this, and she still thinks that I'm walking around consensus!!!
 * I refuse to apologize to Dev for my recent statement. Her removal of messages off her talk page is simply unethical. It is an active declaration of opposition against my warnings. Dev's actions do not, and should not, affect a time-sensitive mediation. This conflict has dragged on since February, and I know that you definitely do not want this to last any longer.
 * Finally, I just realized that Dev might actually be lying to us! Take a look at this article. Dev is 17 years old, which is pretty much someone who's in her junior year of high school. Dev is not taking a university final, she is taking a high school final. Trust me, I'm a freshman; I know what a high school final is like! IT'S NOT THAT HARD--<font color="blue" face="comic sans ms">Ed  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">¿Cómo estás? 01:10, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I appreciate your standing up for me against Ed's personal attacks. While Ed seems very focussed on the article that mentions my age (though I am, in fact, 18 now, and cast my first vote last week), he apparently missed the part where it says "Next year Sarah will go to university", which would, in American terms, make me a senior on the point of college. Even were my exams merely one "high school final", the fact that my university place and in fact entire direction of my future depends on me achieving high grades should be enough of a reason to take six weeks off Wikipedia. I don't know how much you know about English exams, so I'll explain: A levels are split into two halves, AS and A2, which you take over the course of two years (Year 12/junior year and Year 13/senior year). I took my ASs last year and got five As, something only twelve people in my year achieved, and I go to one of the highest achieving grammar schools in the country, which is why I only laughed when Ed tried to imply I am some kind of failure. This year I am taking my A2s, which, for me, consists of 13 exams, at least 75 minutes each, over the month of June. Only a fourteen year old would make out like two "papers" is the end of the world for him, but my exams are just a doss.

It really has been kind of you to defend me, and I hope I have explained to you a little of why this is so important for me. Thank you, Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 16:51, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I've replied on Dev's talk page regarding her reverting on her talk page. I don't like to repeat myself, so just go there.

Regarding the current state of the mediation that we are in, I feel that this is time sensitive. The essay leaves a lasting impression on someone who reads about Esperanza. Why? Let's say that Joe is a new editor who has never heard of Esperanza and stumbles across someone's green E in his or her signature. What else would Joe do except click on the E and read the Esperanza essay? After that happens, Joe would leave and continue doing his editing, and never come back to read the essay again. This is because the occurrence of links to Esperanza is diminishing across all active pages on Wikipedia; it's simply not notable among the Wikipedia community anymore. So what do we do? Are we going to let Joe get the wrong idea about Esperanza just because a biased essay made him think that way, or are going to give Joe a completely unbiased essay that, in the end, let's Joe decide whether Esperanza was a good idea or not? Remember that it is Wikipedia policy to Let the facts speak for themselves. Therefore, edits made to the essay are both urgent and time-sensitive. The sooner we implement changes to the essay, the less chance we have of misleading new editors.

On the matter of Dev's education, I truly had no idea about the British schooling system. I guess I should have done my research...--<font color="blue" face="comic sans ms">Ed  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">¿Cómo estás? 22:52, 8 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Although your comments do make sense, I still disagree with them. In real world terms, not Wikipedia terms, the version of the Esperanza essay is urgent and time-sensitive. A few months ago, my computer teacher taught us that anything published on the Internet is definitely going to be read by a few thousand to over a million people. Given that Esperanza is pretty much inactive, let's go with a few thousand. With the wrong version of the essay in place, we are misleading thousands of people around the world! Given the probability that 99% of all existing humans are not Wikipedians, we could potentially be giving a false impression about Wikipedia's community. However, my speculation is just that: speculation.


 * Speaking of the priorities that Wikipedians have in general, I do agree that the articles on Wikipedia are very important. I'm just not editing that much right now because I simply don't have enough time to do the necessary research and write an article within my busy schedule. That's partially why I've been trying to edit the Esperanza essay: it's simple, doesn't require a lot of research, and doesn't require several amounts of time here on WP. If you don't like it that I'm still editing an essay on an inactive organization, then why do you still maintain an essay about it?


 * As for Dev's removal of messages from her talk page, why doesn't she actually put them in an archive? That is exactly what an archive is for. If she wants, then she can put my messages in a separate archive named "nonsense messages" or something. The point is, we will need to keep these warnings in case there's an administrative need for it, such as a possible continuation of the Esperanza conflich, an RFC, an analysis of Dev's behavior (should it be needed, or course), an RFA, etc. --<font color="blue" face="comic sans ms">Ed  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">¿Cómo estás? 23:25, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Now you've written four screens' worth of messages to Ed without him taking a blind bit of notice of what you're saying, do you understand why I don't engage with him anymore? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 15:07, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You will only make yourself more ill. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 17:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you think maybe you could stop coming up with more versions and just stick to the Steve Block mk II we all agreed on? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 19:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not think that you or I need to be page banned - we are both editing because Ed is. I do want indef protection, simply because I'm getting fed up of checking in on Wikipedia and finding there's yet more stuff here I need to comment on. I am supposed to be a goddamn wikibreak, but this fucking mediation is dragging on and on and I DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR THIS. Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 19:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you
Yeah, that tip really helped. thanks for telling me. I've probably would've never figured it out on my own, seeing the state I'm in. <font face="italic" color="#800080">Bunny-chan

Oh, I'm sorry
I didn't mean it like that. I'm sorry if you took it in the wrong context. I've been in special ed. since pretty much all my life, so forgive me for saying that. That's what I meant by "the state I'm in". I'd much rather have been normal, but you can't have everything. <font face="italic" color="#800080">Bunny-chan

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XII - May 2007
The May 2007 issue of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 16:41, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Your page header
Hey Kyoko, I think the change is very nice. I'm not religious, but Elaragirl is definitely in my thoughts, and I'm going to send her an e-mail sometime soon.

As for including me - I don't really mind either way. As I said somewhere, I'm not expecting any sympathy, just trying to offer an explanation for my lowered activity, However, seeing my issues acknowleged is slightly uplifting, so, as I say, I don't mind either way :)

Hope you're well. I'll try and e-mail sometime. I have a draft reply to your last message, but I haven't quite finished it yet (I take far too long to reply to e-mails, I know :

Take care, – Rianaऋ 04:56, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I love the new messages bar, unless it's of the sort I've been seeing a lot of lately (my talk page history is rather interesting right now). Anyway, here's one for you, and I've replied to your e-mail :) Cheers, – Rianaऋ 15:21, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hope you don't mind me recycling old headers ;) Yeah, sure, I don't mind at all. I'm feeling better, thanks for asking :) Take care, – Riana ⁂  13:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Please don't get stressed
Please don't let Dev vs. Ed get you stressed, Kyoko. I know how it can feel. &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  00:23, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The mediation seems kind of…strange I guess. But I don't think I will join it unless I absolutely need to (and right now I can't really think of any way it could turn that I would). As for how I'm doing—tired as usual, but good. I will be minimally active starting this weekend and ending the end of May or the beginning of June: my sister is getting married and I will be doing a lot of little traveling, all here in California. So I guess you could say I'll be a little busy. ;) &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  16:08, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I most certainly will. ;) Don't be afraid to fix errors, etc. on peoples' pages—well, mine at least—if you see them; it helps the project. &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  18:30, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Happy Kyoko's Day!
My dear Kyoko, these last two days have been quite stressful and time consuming to me, so I haven't replied all your wonderful gestures like I really, really want to. I'll update you by mail tomorrow, God willing - meanwhile, here's a small gift to you, one that sums up all you mean to me. Love you friend :)  P h a e d r i e l  00:20, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Congratulations, it's Kyoko Day!  bibliomaniac 1  5  23:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * How kind :) <font color="#FE474B">♥ Fr  ed  il  23:23, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Mail
Thanks Kyoko :) Gmail's being obnoxious right now, but I'll try again when I get home. Cheers, – Rianaऋ 01:07, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It only took me 2 days, but you have a reply :) – Rianaऋ 14:27, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Chevrefoil
Hey Kyoko, I was just about leave you a message about that! Thanks for the kind words. I tried to use essentially the structure you created for the other Lais, and I'd love it if you could take a look when you get a chance to see if there's anything you could add.--Cúchullain t/ c 20:30, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Impostor account
Well, someone wants to be me, I'm quite flattered! :) Blocked for username, thanks for the heads-up. Seraphimblade Talk to me 20:32, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey
Thanks! I'm glad you like it - I think I'll settle with this design for now, maybe rotate the picture every few weeks or something? And as for poetry - I look forward to it :) I'm going offline now, but I'm impressed that you've managed to stick to your wikibreak ;) Take care, – Rianaऋ 13:17, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You have a response :) – Rianaऋ 19:25, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

last minute request
I added a minor request on the mediation page. Can you check it out?--<font color="blue" face="comic sans ms">Ed  <font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">¿Cómo estás? 01:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Got your mail!
Dearest Kyoko, your email is breath taking, and wonderful, and you have given me so much to think about. You are such a special person. I will reply to you as soon as I possibly can, but I'll visit you in the meantime - I'll miss you too much otherwise! :) Love you K!  P h a e d r i e l  - 06:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm so happy you liked the poem I gifted to Husond, dear Kyoko :) That particular poem is called Fresta, and it's one of my personal favorites from Pessoa. I wholeheartedly recommend you his poetry, it is so heartfelt, so moving and spiritual, even if you can only read him translated. Actually, he did write in English too, although not in the great extension he did in Portguese, so dedicating time to browse the beauty of his creations is definitely worth it. I've searched for a few of his poems online and found a couple of websites you may find interesting: here and here. I've also found a poem about himself he wrote in English that I thought you might like.


 * Love you my Kyoko :)  P h a e d r i e l  - 20:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! :-)
<div style="float:center;border-style:solid;border-color:blue;background-color:AliceBlue;border-width:1px;text-align:left;padding:8px;" class="plainlinks">

Here's a Puffin for you! Puffins somehow promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving something friendly to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Make your own message to spread WikiLove to others! Happy editing! Hús ö  nd  21:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello
Good morning, Kyoko! How are you doing? :) &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  16:48, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Busy, as I will be until the beginning of the month. :) I do somewhat miss the wiki and my friends here (especilly since before I left I did no small end of "show preview" type testing of different HTML and wiki markup in my sandbox), and all the classical music I love listening to. I'll also be writing an essay on Sir Edward Elgar, his 'cello concerto, and Jacqueline du Pré and Daniel Barenboim soon, so try and guess what tone it will be in. :) &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  20:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * That's fine. If you like I could put it on my blog which speaking of, I should put on there what I said I was going to…enough forgetting :P &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  20:40, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Not really, because I've been asked to put my own point of view in them. I don't think that would be too well recieved here. :) &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  20:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism warnings
Thank you very much for your input, I really appreciate it! I really like your idea for each having a different car. So, the first one still sports a Ford Taurus, but now, the second one sports a Saturn Aura, the third one sports an Oldsmobile Aurora, and the fourth one sports a Toyota Camry. As for the blocking policy, I don't think I will link to that because most vandals simply don't really give a damn, that is why they are vandalizing Wikipedia! I think you again for your input! Karrmann 00:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The main reason why I am not including links is because I don't think they care about their actions. They are just doing it for a laugh, not caring about the consequences. But I like the idea for a Spam warning. I'll create it now, and I will use a Corolla as the picture, since there are just too many of them! Karrmann 05:00, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I did them that way to make them easier for me to use. Not only that, but if they read the template, I make it obvious what the warning is for ;) Karrmann 05:12, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

:)
Husond's become quite the expert at novel awards - I have a few of his more esoteric creations in my awards/talk page too ;) Thanks for the puffins - funny looking things :) My personal favourites are these guys, though - they're so cute! – Riana ⁂  11:31, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Heh! Good luck with it ;) You can't go wrong with most fluffy things, in my opinion :) – Riana ⁂  11:38, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Koalas aren't as cute as they look, they're very loud - scamper across the roof at night and wake people up, because they sound scarily like people running across the roof! I think it's because their paws are so flat. I like this, personally :) Good luck with the mainspace editing, always good - I'm trying to fix some redlinks currently. – Riana ⁂  11:48, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Lol! Yeah, they make 'em all cute and cuddly to reel the tourists in - we know how annoying they can get :p – Riana ⁂  11:55, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, we get Animal Planet. I don't understand why they don't tell the tourists about the koala's reign of terror. I was standing outside in the garden a few months ago with my mother, and we heard this bizarre grunting, honking noise, and all of a sudden this large grey object comes bounding across the lawn towards us, glares at us and runs across the road into a tree. Then I was woken up that night by very loud slapping noises on the roof, like someone running across it barefoot, lay in bed terrified for a few seconds and then peeked out the window and saw a big grey beach ball trotting away. I'm not sure whether this is characteristic behaviour, or whether we just had a very bold koala on our hands, but they're definitely not in my list of favourite animals. – Riana ⁂  12:09, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hehe :) I'm sure there are some nice koalas, and we were just messing with one on a bad day... – Riana ⁂  12:24, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Most likely! Since we're talking koalas, I'll tell you a really bad joke I heard once.


 * Har de har :) – Riana ⁂  12:35, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree... one of those ones that make you groan, and you feel the need to inflict them on others ;) – Riana ⁂  12:40, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Take care :) – Riana ⁂  12:50, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the Aida words
Nice to know that someone appreciates all the hours clearing the PROD backlog :) My knowledge of Italian is not great either, so I wouldn't know about any manglement. Cheers, Moreschi Talk 14:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Boink!
You know what that means :) Love you,  P h a e d r i e l  - 20:56, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I got your mail, sweetie! :) And as usual, you are such an adorable friend. Will reply asap, cross my heart! Love ya,  P h a e d r i e l  - 04:02, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Esperanza
''Hello Steve, thank you for your proposed text for the Esperanza essay. In a certain way, I envy you for not having participated over the past several weeks of sometimes heated dispute over the issue. Let's see if the other people who have shown interest in the mediation will agree with your proposal. Thanks again.''

Sorry for the tardy delay, I'm easing myself back in slowly and part of the reason I left before was the EA thing so I wanted to try and keep my input short. I'm glad it all worked out in the end.

''Did you just shorten my existing text to get this version? If so, I'm genuinely flattered that you didn't rewrite the sections that you used.''

I did just shorten your text to the bare minimum, pretty much based on the close by Mailer and Messed Rocker's statement that he envisaged a few sentences. Part of me felt the less there was, the less arguing there would be. I thought your text was pretty much fine. I'm not sure I can claim authorship of the words, only the editing. I just shrank your compromise and added the warning from the mfd close, then Dev added a couple of words and Ed added a sentence. I'm really glad everyone appears happy with it. Anyway, take care and see you around. Steve block Talk 20:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

About Los Soneros del Barrio deleted
Thank you Kyoko, very much for the comment you made about Los Soneros del Barrio on my talk page! My thoughts are that I could probably add references that would make the moderator Phaedriel accept the topic - you yourself suggest some good ones - but I have asked him/her about one specific thing I would be willing to do and then Phaedriel didn't reply. Then I thought that unfortunately I don't have time to go on a trial-and-error when all I wanted to do was to contribute with my knowledge to some other people in the world. I originally only wrote the article on a whim. It's one of about twenty famous salsa bands that aren't in Wikipedia, that I could have written about. It's not even my favorite one... That US band is mentioned in an article on French Wikipedia though. My impression now is that unfortunately, the current Wikipedia system doesn't seem to work when it comes to new topics, but that's life. ;-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmlewan (talk • contribs)

Support for a friend of mine
Please give K. Lastochka a word or two of encouragement as she is going thru a hard time with a WikiBully right about now. Thank you. &mdash; $PЯING  rαgђ  17:18, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Smile :)
Thanks Kyoko! It's beautiful, I like it. A little hyphen appears before your added text, for some reason, but apart from that, it's very nice :) Hope you're well. Take care, Riana ⁂  03:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Kyoko is the best! :)
Wonderful Kyoko, your thoughts reveal, as always, what a sweet and wonderful person you are. And also, that there is no doubt we hold some sort of empathic bond, for you caught me in the act of emailing you! :) I've been planning to do so for a few days now, so please, check your mail tomorrow morning, ok, sweetie? I'll make more sense there, you'll see - but I won't end this very brief note without telling you what we, all your friend feel: you are a blessing, and a warm light for all of us. Whenever we feel down because of the hardships of this project, you are always at our side with a sweet and thoughtful word, and everything looks brighter and makes sense once again. Thanks for being you, dearie! :) (don't forget, meet me at your mailbox later! ;) Love you,  P h a e d r i e l  - 04:42, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Aw :)

 * Oh I know it wasn't a "swift kick"; I was indicating that in the future if I don't write back in a timely fashion you should give me a swift kick! Your message was a very lovely gentle smile, nothing the least bit kicky about it!   ^_^
 * Much love, — <font color="darkgoldenrod">E ditor at  L arge  ( speak )  14:16, 25 May 2007 (UTC)