User talk:LWF/Archive 2

Leaving Firearms group
Have had enough of the endless edit wars and constant bickering regarding the apparent memberships' insistence to insert endless murder trivia into firearms articles and watch members sling constant insults onto firearms discussion pages among themselves regarding the Va Tech murders. There should be a minimum criteria required on whether a mention of each murder committed be added to each firearms article. I would favor seeing some minimum notability requirement that before inserting infamous uses of a firearm into any firearms article that there be some notability criteria attached to the actual firearm associated with the use for something other than body count. For example, for the Carcano rifle, there is a reason to mention that it was the gun that murdered JFK, for this use led directly to the 1968 change in gun laws prohibiting mail-order gun buying. Similarly for the Tec-9 after the Columbine murders since the infamous use at Columbine led directly to the increased banning of several variants of the Tec-9, and similar firearms, forced Intratec and a few other companies out of business, and the guns notability led directly to major changes in several state laws regarding assault weapons, magazine capacities, etc. Does anyone seriously believe that either a Glock 19, Glocks in general, or a Walther P22 plinker will be remembered by the general population in 6 months like the Tec-9 or the Carcano, or that these handguns will feature prominently in any future gun control legislation just because Cho carried them at Va Tech? Notability criteria for including murder usages in firearms articles should not be based on the number of victims killed by each gun to determine whether insertion of murder information into each firearm's article is warranted, but on longterm notability relative to the actual firearm, subsequent impact on firearms legislation, and similar longterm importance. This does not trivialize the murders of innocent victims, nor does it clutter firearms articles with ever-increasing murder counts that do not meet any notability requirement relative to the firearm. It simply controls the insertion of endless trivia in violation of WP:AVTRIV policies. Mentions of weapons used are entirely suitable for inclusion in any and all Massacre and Shooting articles, with links to firearms. But we should not clutter firearms articles with non-notable trivia regarding body counts. The firearms group's image is suffering greatly as a result of the present state of affairs. I am therefore leaving the group for now. Sincerely, Yaf 06:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Walther P22 dispute
An article which you have edited, Talk:Walther P22 – is involved in a dispute requiring inputs from editors to develop a consensus for editors to follow on whether or not mention of the Virginia Tech Massacre should be mentioned in the firearm article, or if mention in the VT Massacre article of the firearms used, with a link back to the Walther P22 article, is adequate. Thank you. Yaf 22:19, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

You may want to have a look in on Talk:Walther P22 again. Griot has canvassed only those users who want to keep the VT mention in the article, so I am alterting those who were not yet contacted. There has been discussion on WP:ANI about the outcome of the previous polls. Your continued involvement in the discussion(s) would be welcomed. ··coe l acan 22:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Firearms
Thank you for the welcome. I hope I can contribute to the project and help it grow. -- Kimon talk 22:37, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, and if you ever want a chance to fire an AR-15 I own four different models. --Semper Fidelis 04:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the offer, but seeing as how I don't know you and probably don't live in your area it probably wouldn't work. I just have to wait for my gunsmith friend to find some time, or wait until I can go shooting with my uncle, who also owns one.--LWF 01:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

FN F2000
Glad you reverted my revert :-)! Thanks! Wǐkǐɧérṃǐť Talk to me or learn something new! 02:18, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem. It's common for that to happen.--LWF 02:47, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV (April 2007)
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Infobox Drive for the Firearms Wikiproject
Hello LWF, I've been thinking about this one for a little while, and I think its a good idea. Here's what I propose: Send a notice out to all members of the project saying something like: Hello (username). The Firearms Wikiproject is having an infobox drive. If you choose to participate, you will be given on page lacking an infobox. It would then be your responsibility to update that page with any relevant information. Please RSVP to C0N6R355 (link to my talk) or to LWF (link to yours). Thank you, the Firearms Wikiproject. Then on a preselected date I (or you) would distribute the articles lacking infoboxes. The deadline would be five days from when it started. Do you think this would be a good idea? C0N6R355talkcontribs 11:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It could work. Let's give it a try.--LWF 12:43, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think it is useful to assign pages to people. It would be better to spend the time leading up to the drive updating the infobox request list, so we have a place where people can go to easily find articles that need to be done. What would also work is if we encourage everyone to go and search for firearm articles that lack an infobox and do it themselves. As for a date, two weeks from today looks good to me, so let's get to preparing.--LWF 13:09, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, so the 28th? Sounds good. I'll start sending out messages on the 21st. In the meantime, I'll take your suggestion and start gathering infoboxes. Also, when it's started, we should put a message on both the project page and the user's pages saying something to the effect of "The drive has begun!" Anyways, the revised message is:

Hello (username). The Firearms Wikiproject is having an infobox drive. The purpose of this is to ensure that most (if not all) of the articles within our scope have the relavent infoboxes. The start date will be May 28th. If you choose to participate, go to our project page and pick an article under the "To-do: Infobox" section. Before you start editing an article, cross it out on the list so that we don't have editor's work clashing. The drive will last for five days. If you are interested, please RSVP to C0N6R355 or to LWF. Thank you, the Firearms Wikiproject.
 * I'll work on the starting message. C0N6R355talkcontribs 19:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It'll probably work better if they all RSVP to my page, to make it easier to track it all, rather than separating it.--LWF 21:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I would like to remind you that you are supposed to say in the edit summary what article (with wikilinks) you are adding, and what section you're adding it to. It makes things much easier for me.--LWF 21:25, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think I did my first time, but Wiki was having problems with my log in, so I probably forgot the second time. And I'm fine with the RSVP to you. C0N6R355talkcontribs 11:41, 15 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Finalizing things. This will be the message:

Hello (username). The Firearms Wikiproject is having an infobox drive. The purpose of this is to ensure that most (if not all) of the articles within our scope have the relavent infoboxes. The start date will be May 28th. If you choose to participate, go to our project page and pick an article under the "To-do: Infobox" section. Before you start editing an article, cross it out on the list so that we don't have editor's work clashing. The drive will last for five days. If you are interested, please RSVP to LWF. Thank you, the Firearms Wikiproject. C0N6R355talkcontribs 16:15, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

One thing you might want to add is that it is the drive is starting on May 28 in the Western hemisphere. For people in the eastern hemisphere it will start on a different date, I don't know which.--LWF 17:04, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good. A couple of minor corrections (typos, links and so forth), if I may:
 * Hello (username). The Firearms Wikiproject is having an infobox drive. The purpose of this is to ensure that most (if not all) of the articles within our scope have the relevant infoboxes. The start date will be May 28th. If you choose to participate, go to our project page and pick an article under the To-do:Infobox section (LWF's addition: or look for firearm articles that need an infobox). Before you start editing an article, please cross it out on the list so that we don't have editor's work clashing. The drive will last for five days. If you are interested, please RSVP to LWF. Thank you, the Firearms Wikiproject.

If you want, I'll do the grunt work and take care of sending the message out to every project member. -- Seed 2.0 01:00, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * As long as it gets done I'm fine with that. It would also be a good idea if we put this in the talk page of the project once it starts, and perhaps bring in the Weaponry task force for extra man power.--LWF 04:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Great. You say the word and I'll get started. We should probably get the okay from the Weaponry Taskforce coordinator before we contact their members though. If you could do that (since you're a member there and all), I'd appreciate it. Cheers, -- Seed 2.0 12:08, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually we don't need to contact the members individually, we can just leave a message on the project talk page, and still ask them to RSVP here. Don't forget, we start making the invitations tomorrow.--LWF 13:14, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay. I'll start sending out the invites tomorrow morning then (EST). If there are any last-minute changes to the message, please leave a note here or on my talk page. I think I should be able to get all the invites out in one batch and report back here when I'm done. Have a nice Sunday. :) Cheers -- Seed 2.0 13:30, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Good morning. :) Just got done. Cheers, -- Seed 2.0 09:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Infobox drive

 * I've added many before, so I can do a couple yes. --Deon Steyn 10:48, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, I'm in ;) C0N6R355talkcontribs 11:13, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. &rArr;   SWAT  Jester    Denny Crane.  17:58, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Count me in! -- Kimon talk 17:59, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm in. &mdash; Dan MP5   Semper Fi, Carry on  21:52, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd be glad to help, I've never done infoboxes before, though, so would it be alright if I asked for help? --Chinese3126 00:06, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, just talk about it. On the project's page there is (at the bottom) a summary of the infoboxes we'll be using. Just fill in the information and you should be fine. C0N6R355talkcontribs 01:32, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XV (May 2007)
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Re: new member
Hi I am a new member to Wiki Project Guns. Thank you for welcoming me in! By the way, how many guns do you own? And do you need help making one? I know how to make them. In fact I am trying to make a 37mm mortar. Kevin Kahle 20:34, 23 June 2007 (UTC)Kevin Kahle

Actually I possess no firearms of my own, though not through lack of effort. The only impedence to me making a muzzleloader of my own is money, and I already have a gunsmith friend from the real world that has offered to help me in building a muzzleloader when I have the funds. Thanks for the offer.--LWF 21:28, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Weapon
Thr principal definition (all others, except the phallic sense, refer to it) is ''An instrument of any kind used in warfare or in combat to attack and overcome an enemy. '' Nothing closer. However, since the first two uses are from Beowulf, and another is about hunting lions, it is reasonable, and it is plainly English, that a spear, sword, or bow does not cease to be a weapon when used against an animal; and one of the subsidiary definitions is Any part of the body (esp. of a bird or beast) which is or may be used as a means of attack or defence, as a claw, horn, tusk, or the like; in pl., the spurs of a game cock or hen. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 14:27, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Request for Mediation
This message delivered: 00:16, 1 July 2007 (UTC).

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SuperNova (firearm)
reverted - the article can stand alone, post a suggest to merge +tag next time to get input. PianoKeys 23:39, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I would like to point out that there was an AfD, and the result was to merge the two. Not only that, the SuperNova is more or less a Nova with the ComforTech added on and per WP:GUNS should be merged into the parent firearms article. At the very least it should be moved from SuperNova (firearm) to Benelli Nova to conform with WP:GUNS.--LWF 01:06, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Please vote for whether Gun Nut deserves deletion or not
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Gun_Nut --BillyTFried 23:25, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Sublimes vs sublimates
Is there some subtlety of language here or aren't they exactly the same thing? WolfKeeper 20:40, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm checking into it, but so far it seems they mean approximately the same thing, although so far the definitions of sublime seem to include going from a solid to gaseous state back to a solid state, while sublimation just goes from solid to gas.--LWF 23:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Please do not arbitrarily delete entire "Popular Culture" sections on firearms
I notice you deleted the entire "popular culture" section for the article Lee-Enfield. I'd greatly appreciate it if, rather than simply deleting entire sections, you'd perhaps see if they could be trimmed slightly. True, not every reference to a gun in popular culture is notable, but the intent of the WP:MILHIST guideline was to avoid lists along the line of "This gun can be seen in the following movies:" followed by a huge list of every obscure, trivial appearance of a gun in everything from movies where they should be see (Every WWII movie mentionin the Kar98, for example) to incredibly obscure Manga that only four people outside of Japan have ever heard of- it's not to avoid every. single. mention of a gun in film, [i]provided the mention is notable[/i]- for example, James Bond's Walther PPK, the lever-action shotgun from Terminator 2, or, in this case, a discussion on how the Lee-Enfield (The British Empire/Commonwealth's issue rifle for over half a century!) is incorrectly portrayed in films and games, giving a brief selection as any example. I appreciate your efforts in keeping firearm articles clear of un-necessary fanboy-esque clutter, but maybe just check the safety catch on your delete button before you wipe entire sections out of articles, perhaps? ;-) --Commander Zulu 03:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * While I appreciate your efforts, you are in the minority on this issue. You've also criticized me for doing the same thing.  See here: . This article is dear to you, yes, but REALLY what did you see in that section that was defensible.  The Enfield is so common in films, however it's a generic gun. The gun is not the feature, it is a side-note akin to clothing. The James Bond example is the best, however Dirty Harry, Quigley, and others provide a framework whereby the gun is the feature of the popular culture reference, not just window dressing.  In no way does this section meet that litmus test.--Asams10 04:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)


 * As I see it, currently only the second paragraph has any bearing on actual influence. The other two consist of: British films use a British gun, guy shot people, made reference to caliber, games didn't have it for a while, but now they have it inaccurately portrayed.--LWF 15:10, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator selection
The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are looking to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by August 14! Kirill 03:38, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

use of WPGUNS tag
I've been adding the WPGUNS tag to firearms talk pages - I was wondering if this tag allows some kind of wiki-magic to be performed, like make lists of pages, etc. Arthurrh 08:05, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

If there is I don't know how to do it.--LWF 18:23, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:WPGUNS —Thernlund (Talk 21:57, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Interesting... I wonder if there is some magic category as well, like with the reqphoto template tag. I'm just thinking overall about easier ways to understand what's in the project, what needs to be done, etc. without all the tedious updating of a manual list. Arthurrh 22:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You want an external tool like AWB or something I think. But you have to be really careful.  I've made some screwups with AWB and they can be more tedious to repair than making the edits by hand in the first place.  —Thernlund (Talk 22:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, something to think about. Maybe we can tap someone in the project who's familiar with them. I was hoping for example to generate a list of all pages with WPGUNS that also had a stub tag, for example. But it's not urgent, just something to think about. Obviously the current list of things to do has plenty on it. Arthurrh 22:27, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Military history WikiProject coordinator election
The Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators from a pool of fourteen candidates to serve for the next six months. Please vote here by August 28! Kirill 17:41, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Sukhoi Su-33
You're welcome. It only shows this is a cooperative project :-) - Dammit 17:23, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XVIII (August 2007)
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Mini-14 Image
I've actually got one I think is better:--Asams10 13:11, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Might be a little better without the scope, since the infobox image should probably be of a firearm that is at least externally stock.--LWF 01:20, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but the scope is zeroed and I'm not taking it off. The Ranch Rifle was intended to have a scope on it, though, so this is about as appropriate as I can imagine. Your picture looks just fine though. --Asams10 02:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

M1 Garand article
Re-Reading Hatcher's Book of the Garand. Most of what was in the article seemed WAY off from what I remember. Still can't spell though.--Asams10 04:17, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually your spelling was pretty good, I checked the whole article and only found the one mistake. Good work fixing up the article.--LWF 13:27, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

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Hagger articles
Yes, I put these on the protected list, but I have no idea why they would be on your watch list. I certainly didn't put them there. I don't even know how one user could edit another user's watch list. Let me know if you find out what happened -- NawlinWiki 23:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks man JTBX 13:17, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

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Shiny!

 * Thank you Tiptoety. It's too bad the RFPP for Webley Revolver was declined.--LWF 22:36, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * It was worth a try, even though i knew it would probably not get protected. Tiptoety 23:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks I hope I will enjoy it, I am enthusiastic and borderline obsession about firearms. Seems you have a pretty big interest in them too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Police,Mad,Jack (talk • contribs) 09:16, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

CIA & Wiki
That's exactly my point. Godspeedmach3 is trying to make something out of nothing. Regards, Parsecboy 15:09, 16 November 2007 (UTC)