User talk:Langleym/sandbox

Good subject matter and organization. Since you have not yet formatted it is a bit hard to follow, so I will return and edit once the formatting is in place. 570jdw (talk) 17:18, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Of course, I agree with JDW you have to edit it to help other's colleagues contribution. Notwithstanding, I will give you my feed-back. I would suggest to start with the Definition/Concept of Patulin as an introduction. So, I would remove or include later the first sentence. Use editing tools for italics and links for these molds. They are missing and very helpful for the reader. I would specify: “The quality of apples used in production or the quality of the apples as a raw material used in the production process”. Genotoxic, include definition or link to explain this concept. In fact, your contribution to the first paragraph is scarce. CHEMISTRYTypo: "It is not destroyed". Include references and definitions, links and so on. USES: I wonder if it is possible to provide additional information about the toxicity of the product? SOURCES OF EXPOSURE OK Second paragraph 26 µg? What is the TDI for this toxin? TOXICITY What does toxicity A means? Acute? -Subacute: Something is missing in this paragraph for a better understanding, provide more detailed information. Genotoxicity Correct terms (typos) and include links and references. Reproduction What is the meaning of F1 litters? Define or include link, please. Human health Few reported cases of what? An action limit of ? Risk management ...an action limit of 50 µg/kg: per kg of what? To test for patulin contamination,….I would include this part under the heading Chemistry instead. ReferencesInsert in the text, Edit I suggest to include this reference, because it might be interesting: James R. Hanson The Chemistry of fungi RSC publishing http://books.google.es/books?id=nYNPSsC-sFQC&pg=PA65&lpg=PA65&dq=polyketide+lactones&source=bl&ots=hW0C6yG2Pc&sig=rXN5q1nHFumetka8tRTZtr0n3c4&hl=es&sa=X&ei=VWp_UuaCNuKv0QWnzYGAAw&ved=0CHYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=polyketide%20lactones&f=false Very interesting, I like very much cider, and because I was born in a rural area I know many of the apples used for its production used to be partly rotten. So, I will try to reduce my intake of cider that is not high, anyway. Good luck! 570acm570acm (talk) 11:56, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

-Edits Interesting subject, and very detailed. Are all apples susceptible, can it be more or less prevalent in certain varieties? What about regional considerations, is it in all countries worldwide or only in temperate zones, humid areas, etc? Additionally, is this a post-harvest disease, or something that can occur while apples are still on the tree?

-Be sure to clean up on the units of measurements, you state micrograms per kilogram, and sometimes(µg/kg), the same thing obviously but make sure it's consistent. -I would make a hyperlink for polyketide lactone, I have no idea what that is and your basic reader won't either. --Under "Sources of Exposure," explain how it is exactly found in processed and fresh products, how it comes to be an active pathogen. Does pasteurization affect the prevalence, or something else? Explain the bio process... Elaborate more on the statement, "A NOAEL in rodents was observed at 43ug/kg"---what does this mean exactly and why is it important, what is a NOAEL? Good job---Mark Rosmann570MAR (talk) 03:16, 20 November 2013 (UTC)570MAR (talk) 17:19, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

would you consider renaming the article "putulin risk assessment" since there is already a main putulin article on wikipedia? or merge with the main one later? --Mercapto7 (talk) 16:52, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

- 570SJR (talk) My Comments


 * As mentioned before this wiki does still need some formatting to conform to what the other articles look like.


 * I think that you are on the right track here and as mentioned above I think you should consider titling the article “patulin risk assessment”. I also agree with Mark’s comments on demographics of the apple and the units, the unit changes can become confusing if they are not closely followed.

Beyond that I look forward to seeing how you format your page and what else you may add.
 * I think that you could add this to the current Patulin wiki page or focus your wiki more on risk assessment either way you have some detailed and strong work here.

Good work!! 570SJR (talk) 18:55, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

I agree this is an interesting subject and one I did not know much about. I think your article would benefit from the addition of links to other articles that relate to this subject like pages on the individual molds, etc. Formatting is still a work in progress but please consider bullets, italics and numbered lists to make it easier to follow.In the area where you talk about risk assessment I would like to see more detail.

''The provisional tolerable daily intake(PDTI) for patulin was set at 0.43 µg/kg bw by the FDA (#a) based on a NOAEL of 0.3mg/kg bw per week(#o). Monte carlo analysis was done on apple juice to compare exposure and the PDTI. Without controls or an action limit, 90th percentile of consumers would not be about the PDTI. However, children 1-2yrs old would be 3x higher tan the PDTI. Hence, an action limit of 50 µg/kg was set (#a).'' What is a Monte Carlo analysis why is this important? Can you give us an idea of how many apples or something the PDTI is equivalent to. ''This can be successfully managed by removing mold and not using rotten or damaged apples before juice production (#f, #a). Is this the only way? Does heat inactivate it? The World Health Organization recommends a maximum concentration of 50 µg/L in apple juice.[3] How does this compare to the PDTI? To test for patulin contamination, a variety of methods and sample preparation methods have been employed including thin layer chromatography (TLC), gas chromatography (GC),high performance liquid chromatography (HPLC), capillary electrophoresis (#7).'' Can you elaborate on the sample preparation methods? 570lah (talk) 22:48, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi eveyone. Thank you for the input so far. Obviously I know that I need to spend time with the formatting and setting up links (working on it). Unfortunately, I do not know how to do these things so it will take me time to work through the kinks. Please be patient as I do so. Also, I do not wish to label it patulin risk assessment since there are aleady multiple papers with specific patulin risk assessments for certain situations. I was simply trying to add to the current article, but in a problem formulation sense. My goal was not to provide equations and framework to do a risk assessment for the common person. However, if that is what the instructors think i should do instead, then I can change the focus. I will also try to add the links for the molds and other things (NOAEL, genotox, etc) because there are already articles. I think it would be redundant to explain each type of toxicity, chemical type, method and what it means when there are articles specifically for that.Please keep the input coming! Thanks, Monica — Preceding unsigned comment added by Langleym (talk • contribs) 20:18, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

•I agree with ACM that the beginning of the overview section should be the first thing on the page so when the reader has the general definition right at the start. •A summary in the toxicity section comparing the different toxicities patulin is capable of may be beneficial. This would provide an indication of which toxicity is of greatest concern. •In the risk management and regulations section under the US, the third sentence says “about” when you meant to say “above” •The action level of 50ug/kg in apple juice and cider in the US is mentioned but there is also mention of limits for apples and infant products in the EU. Are there any regulations in the US for patulin levels in solid apples or infant/children products. •Are there any processes that concentrate patulin like dehydration of apples that may increase exposure for certain type of apple products? •Citation of sources still needs to be changed to the wiki format. •Overall the page was well organized and communicated a large amount of information quite concisely. 570ps (talk) 01:20, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

The genotoxicity was of most concern. In the overview and in the regulations I have indicated which toxicity findings were using in decision making. I suppose I can repeat what I have already said under the toxicity portion as well to clarify. Also, the links and formatting has been changed as suggested. I think many of the questions people have asked are answered through the links. If there are any suggestions I overlooked, please let me know. Thanks Langleym (talk) 16:06, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Good start! I would elaborate on the section "Uses"...what bacteria was it used for? When did they stop? How effective was it? And describe what a "potassium uptake inhibitor" is/useful for/important for. Expand on the sources of exposure, especially the children who are overexposed when consuming organics. Is this less/more than other kids? Are there effective fungicides for patulin? I would suggest putting in a ChemBox (search Help:Chembox in the wikipedia search bar, it should come up with directions) to perhaps give a little more chemical information on it. 570ADM (talk) 21:54, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Comments From 570fmf

Good job and goo topic!!! My two cents would be: Introduce the idea that Patulin in not only present in apples. Its Also in grains,other fruits and vegetables. Here is a lot of information about the toxin: http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/r?dbs+hsdb:@term+@rn+149-29-1 The article does not give much more information about other food sources of the toxin, I would try to cover in more depth this matter. In the phrase "Patulin its also an antibiotic" I would specify "Patulin has shown antimicrobial properties against some microorganisms" since nowadays its not used as an antibiotic drug nor its use is its intented as an antibiotic.(something that you remark below). Overall its a god and sound article, Good Job!!! 570fmf (talk) 01:37, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

good example of how to develop a 'problem formulation' as a wiki
This is a very nice job of a problem formulation which is presented in a manner that should be very acceptable as a Wiki. I think you are ready to publish -- the Palutin article that currently exists in Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patulin) contains a good summary table with structure and physicochemical properties that you will want to have included in your entry. Since there is an existing Patulin entry, you can publish by simply entering your materials as a edit into the current entry. 570jdw (talk) 15:17, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Under sources of exposure, I have listed that it is found in those other food items. However, looking at it again, the overview does not specify. I also prefer the sentence suggestion about antibiotic. I didn't make much changes to the overview that was in the present article, but looks like there was room for improving it. Thank you!

I definitely want to include the chemistry table in the present article, and am planning to add a picture too. Once I add those in, I will go ahead and publish. Please let me know if there are any final edits! ~Monica Langleym (talk) 22:53, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Adhithiya Charli Comments : It is a very interesting topic that you had chosen. With regard to the structural and physical properties the information has been well provided. The details about the mycotoxin is was well layered and ordered. There could have been more information and data provided with respect to the toxicity apart from the dose values. There could have also been more information provided under the risk management and assessment heading, probably with addition of some examples and real scenarios. Good job!570mac (talk) 16:27, 22 November 2013 (UTC) -- Overview To avoid confusion due to cyclical sentence structure, you may want to rephrase the following sentence (from the Overview section) as such:

''“Patulin is most commonly found in rotting apples, and the degree to which this mycotoxin is present is frequently used as a measure of the apple quality in production. Additionally, patulin has also been found in grains, fruits, and vegetables. While patulin is not a particularly potent toxin, a number of studies have identified it as genotoxic; which has led some to theorize that it that it may be carcinogenic, though animal studies have remained inconclusive.”''

Chemistry As many who may read this page may have less technical background in chemistry, it may be benefitial to add the following links to other wikipedia pages for the following concepts: “poluketide lactone”, “pasteurization”, “thermal deaturation”, “enzyme”

Sources of Exposure I would remove “Baert et al shoed that” from the sentence as you have provided a reference at the end of this sentence: "Baert et al showed that 0.9% of children drinking organic apple juice exceeded the tolerable daily intake (TDI) for patulin [22]” Toxicity Within this section, I would make sure to spell out the non-acronym words for any technical jargon when it is first used, then proceed to use the acronym in subsequent uses.  I have provided several examples from the Toxicity section of the wiki page:

''“A subacute rodent no observable adverse effect level (NOAEL) of 43μg/kg body weight as well as genotoxicity studies were primarily the cause for setting limits for patulin exposure, although a range of other types of toxicity also exist. [24]”''

“The World Health Organization (WHO) concluded that patulin is genotoxic based on variable genotoxicity data, however it is considered a group 3 carcinogen by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) since data was inconclusive [30].”

Risk Management and Regulations Should the acronym for “provisional tolerable daily intake” be PTDI (refer to the bolded words in the example from the wiki page below)? It is written as PDTI, which does not align with the actual wording. You very well might be correct with the acronym you provided, I just wanted to bring it to your attention to double-check. Below is one of the sentences from the “Risk Management and Regulations” section, (this example is specifically take from the U.S. subsection):

''“The provisional tolerable daily intake (PDTI) for patulin was set at 0.43 µg/kg bw by the FDA [38] based on a NOAEL of 0.3mg/kg bw per week [39]. “''

570mpt (talk) 15:48, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Yafei Wang

Good job. Patulin is really a popular topic, I've seen many websites listing patulin as very dangerous toxins produced by molds and I also learned it from Food Microbiology. Since I have a book that introduces patulin very specifically, and I found more information about it from this book.I'll just post it here, to see if you would like to add to the user page:

Stability in foods Patulin is relatively heat stable and is not destroyed by pasteurization of apple juice at 90˚C for 10s. However, it is broken down in fruit juice and other foods in the presence of sulfur dioxide used as a preservative. It does not appear to survive fermentation processes and is not usually found in alcoholic drinks, such as cider, but the toxicity of it breakdown products is uncertain. Patulin produced by mold growth on cheese is inactivated by interaction with high cysteine levels.

Control Options Patulin is only considered to be a significant problem in apples and apple products, especially apple juice.

Pre-harvest

Good Agricultural Practice (GAP) measures designed to minimize insect and bird damage to apples can help to prevent mold infection and patulin production before harvest. At harvest, rotten and damaged apples should be discarded, as these are much more likely to contain patulin.

Post-harvest

Control in harvested apples is best achieved by good storage practice designed to ensure hygienic conditions in apple stores and to minimize physical damage that might promote fungal infection and rotting. Storage at temperatures of less than 10˚C is also a useful control measure.

Processing

Physical separation of moldy and damaged apples before processing will help to reduce patulin levels in apple juice and other apple products. This can be done by hand, or by using water flumes or high-pressure water jets. Washing of apples can also help to reduce patulin levels.

Testing

Monitoring of patulin levels in susceptible products, such as apple juice, by sampling and analysis can be valuable- the test method of choice being HPLC with UV detection. In the UK, significant reductions in patulin levels in apple juice have been achieved since regular monitoring was implemented in 1992.

Legislation

European Union

The EU has set a maximum limit for patulin of 50µg/kg in fruit juices and in drinks containing apple juice or derived from apples. For solid apple products, such as apple puree, the limit is 25µg/kg. a lower limit of 10µg/kg has been set for certain foods intended for infants.570wyf (talk) 18:44, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

James Miller -go4dodgers- Great topic and nice job with the chemistry presentation. My initial comments were to invest more time in describing what Patulin is and where else it is found. I see that you have gotten this comment prior. Secondly, great job a taking a great deal of information and presenting it concisely. You might want to link to other articles for help. I had this issue with my paper as well. Nice job overall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Go4dodgers (talk • contribs) 22:50, 27 November 2013 (UTC)