User talk:Larry Hockett/Archive 5

Article Feedback Tool update
Hey EricEnfermero. I'm contacting you because you're involved in the Article Feedback Tool in some way, either as a previous newsletter recipient or as an active user of the system. As you might have heard, a user recently anonymously disabled the feedback tool on 2,000 pages. We were unable to track or prevent this due to the lack of logging feature in AFT5. We're deeply sorry for this, as we know that quite a few users found the software very useful, and were using it on their articles.

We've now re-released the software, with the addition of a logging feature and restrictions on the ability to disable. Obviously, we're not going to automatically re-enable it on each article—we don't want to create a situation where it was enabled by users who have now moved on, and feedback would sit there unattended—but if you're interested in enabling it for your articles, it's pretty simple to do. Just go to the article you want to enable it on, click the "request feedback" link in the toolbox in the sidebar, and AFT5 will be enabled for that article.

Again, we're very sorry about this issue; hopefully it'll be smooth sailing after this :). If you have any questions, just drop them at the talkpage. Thanks! Okeyes (WMF) 21:37, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

WP:Food
It would be appreciated if you joined in the conversation occurring at WT:Food regarding the layout and presentation of the project's main page. Northamerica1000(talk) 03:22, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Nicole Simpson
I changed Cathrine Woods to Sarah Goldberg because they are the same personThe Maigne Event (talk) 11:21, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Rudolph Nissen
The DYK project (nominate) 08:03, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Template:Did you know nominations/Josephine MacLeod
Thank you for the copyedit, can you please restore the DYKtick so that we can go forward? -- Tito ☸ Dutta 01:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I think it can go forward now, but after performing a pretty significant copyedit, I don't think I'm eligible to give it a tick... unless I'm misunderstanding something. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 05:07, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you. But, if you at least add a short note (the same thing you have told above: "it can go forward") at the DYK page, we can freely go forward, else I won't be surprised if someone returns the nomination to the listing page adding a comment "wait, just now, it has been copyedited, wait for their reply, it may need a review." It is either 15th's or 19th's DYK. -- Tito ☸ Dutta 10:31, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think it can, but I am not sure. Note that I requested for someone to look at the edits and ensure that the original meaning stayed intact. I hope that won't take a long time. I'm sorry that I may have delayed the timing of the DYK, but the article needed editing. I can't imagine that they would have placed the DYK into the queue like it was at the time. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 23:02, 12 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I don't know if I can move that DYK to the special occasion area now. I am pinging Tito ☸ Dutta 00:58, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * It may be more efficient to continue the discussion on the nomination page. The comment that I posted there represents my current opinion. I am crossing my fingers that you get your submission promoted in a timely manner. Best to you!  EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 01:30, 13 September 2013 (UTC)
 * And as expected... -- Tito ☸ Dutta 02:14, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Joseph DeLee
The DYK project (nominate) 08:03, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Logan Wright
The DYK project (nominate) 00:04, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Nilkantha Bagchi
Could you please copyedit Nilkantha Bagchi? It might be a wonderful Did you know article. -- Tito ☸ Dutta 12:58, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. I cut down on the wordiness, corrected some grammar and spelling, and tagged one quotation that appeared unsourced. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 07:53, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

October 2013 AFC Backlog elimination drive
 WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive WikiProject AFC is holding a one month long Backlog Elimination Drive!

The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from October 1st, 2013 – October 31st, 2013.

Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the drive's page and help out!

A new version of our AfC helper script is released! It includes many bug fixes, new improvements and features, code enhancements, and more. If you want to see a full list of changes, visit the changelog. Please report bugs and feature requests there, too! Thanks. -- Mdann 52   talk to me! This newsletter was delivered on behalf of WPAFC by EdwardsBot (talk) 15:36, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Tris Speaker
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Tris Speaker you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of TonyTheTiger -- 01:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Tony. Look forward to working with you to address any feedback that will improve the article. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 02:53, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

Re: Nilkantha Bagchi
Thank you. That was nominated at DYK and has passed. Tito ☸ Dutta 04:22, 1 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It was kind of you to let me know. Thanks! EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 02:21, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Tris Speaker
The article Tris Speaker you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Tris Speaker for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of TonyTheTiger -- 14:30, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Wikiproject Food and Drink Newsletter - October 2013

 * Delivered by Northamerica1000(talk) 20:51, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Nilkantha Bagchi
Gatoclass (talk) 00:10, 4 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you once again for your help. Archived copy of the main page Tito ☸ Dutta 00:38, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Tris Speaker
The article Tris Speaker you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Tris Speaker for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of TonyTheTiger -- 06:22, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Cool Papa Bell
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Cool Papa Bell you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of TonyTheTiger -- 21:31, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=576238543 your edit] to Jozo Šimunović may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20-%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
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 * ].

Your GA nomination of Cool Papa Bell
The article Cool Papa Bell you nominated as a good article has failed ; see Talk:Cool Papa Bell for reasons why the nomination failed. If or when these points have been taken care of, you may apply for a new nomination of the article. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of TonyTheTiger -- 05:12, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Major League Baseball
Hi Eric,

I noticed that Major League Baseball, one of WikiProject Baseball's core articles was delisted years ago and was hoping that you could help, since it appears you have helped several baseball articles to GA and FA status. has also volunteered to help out. Go to WT:BASEBALL to see what the goals are before its reviewed and give your own input about it. Thanks. Sports guy 17 (click to talk • contributions) 23:29, 17 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Would love to help! I have had a crazy last few days at work, but I hope to be able to help out with the article by the weekend. Thanks for thinking of me. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 00:21, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Winkler County nurse whistleblower case
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Winkler County nurse whistleblower case you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of 1ST7 -- 23:32, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Winkler County nurse whistleblower case
The article Winkler County nurse whistleblower case you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needed to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass, otherwise it will fail. See Talk:Winkler County nurse whistleblower case for things which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of 1ST7 -- 03:32, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks, 1ST7. That was quick! I believe I've addressed the issues that came up in the review. Just let me know if I can do anything else. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 05:55, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Winkler County nurse whistleblower case
The article Winkler County nurse whistleblower case you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Winkler County nurse whistleblower case for comments about the article. Well done! Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of 1ST7 -- 06:12, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Congrats from me too! I remember the harrowing episode This American Life had about this case a while back; it's interesting to see the followup. Thanks for putting this together, -- Khazar2 (talk) 10:13, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys. I try to contribute some nursing-related content, but I'm just not excited by a lot of nursing history; this was a nice change of pace from that. These nurses sure were systematically put through a lot! EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 10:38, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Books and Bytes: The Wikipedia Library Newsletter
Books and Bytes Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013 by , Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved... New positions: Sign up to be a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Wikipedia Librarian Wikipedia Loves Libraries: Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted. New subscription donations: Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis?? New ideas: OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges News from the library world: Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY Announcing WikiProject Open: WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions New ways to get involved: Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration Read the full newsletter ''Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be opt-in only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the Suggestions page. --The Interior 19:56, 27 October 2013 (UTC)''

Template:Did you know nominations/Volví a Nacer
Eric, there's been a new ALT4 hook proposed (ALT1 was over the maximum length); I was wondering whether you could check it out and see whether it can be approved. Thanks. BlueMoonset (talk) 05:04, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the heads up. I've approved it. So sorry about overlooking the length of the other one. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 05:47, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 4
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Roger Connor, you added links pointing to the disambiguation pages Jim O'Rourke and Joe Connor (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Elmer Flick
D'oh, I almost forgot about Flick. We're running out of time in the five day period to get this expanded by a factor of five, so it can be a DYK article. Can you help me with any more expansion so we can co-nominate it? – Muboshgu (talk) 16:25, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * About to head to work, but will be glad to see what I can do this evening. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 16:36, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Great. I'll keep on it too. I believe it was at 2.5kb prose when we started, so we're more than halfway. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:13, 6 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and made the nomination. Even if it falls short of a full 5x expansion, it could still be posted if the reviewer is sympathetic. Good work (so far)! – Muboshgu (talk) 18:20, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 12
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Danny Shay, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page American Association (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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DYK for Elmer Flick
The DYK project (nominate) 16:03, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Winkler County nurse whistleblower case
The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand
It might be polite to explain why you reverted my edits on George Dawson Flinter. They seem constructive to me. I corrected errors, made important relevant links. What's the deal? WQUlrich (talk) 20:24, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello, it only took you a few seconds to undo a lot of work and I'm very ticked off. Please be a gentleman and respond to me promptly. WQUlrich (talk) 20:32, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Very well, I'm going to be rude and undo your reversion, just to see if that attracts your attention, then....please explain!! WQUlrich (talk) 20:39, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what happened, but it might have simply been an accidental use of rollback. AutomaticStrikeout (₵) 20:41, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, TPS. And my apologies to you Mr.Enfermero, if that is indeed the case. WQUlrich (talk) 20:44, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

I am so sorry. It was indeed an accidental rollback from a mobile device (while the device was apparently in my pants pocket). I have a mobile account without rollback to avoid this scenario. Earlier today I logged in on the device using my standard account (which I generally avoid) to check something on my watchlist and I must have forgotten to log out of it. Not sure how my pants leg opens my browser and finds random pages though. I definitely wasn't editing (or intending to edit, anyway) at the time in question. Undoing my revert was definitely the right approach here. Flinter sounds like an intriguing figure. I'd love to lend a hand with copyediting or sourcing the entry if needed. EricEnfermero HOWDY! 03:59, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Apology gladly accepted!! One of AutomaticStrikeout's friends explained to me how easy it is to make an accidental rollback. You'd think they would make it a bit more difficult (maybe, at least, a pop-up window that says "Are You Sure?") WQUlrich (talk) 19:49, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Danny Shay
The DYK project (nominate) 16:02, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Reference Errors on 24 November
Hello, I'm ReferenceBot. I have automatically detected that an edit performed by you may have introduced errors in referencing. as follows: Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/RBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/RBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=ReferenceBot%20–%20&section=new report it to my operator]. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:45, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * On the Claudette Colvin page, [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=583124379 your edit] caused a broken reference name (help) and a cite error (help) . ([ Fix] | [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&preload=User:ReferenceBot/helpform&preloadtitle=Referencing%20errors%20on%20Claudette Colvin Ask for help])

Talkback
See my comments there.  Sports guy 17 :)  (click to talk • contributions) 00:51, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

November 2013
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Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 15:15, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
 * station 3UZ from 1954–56, where his work included disc cutting of radio shows and live-to-air orchestral music broadcasts. From 1956-60 he was the manager of a recently founded independent

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=583869022 your edit] to Carl Scarborough may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
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 * 29, 2013|newspaper=Schenectady Gazette|date=May 26, 1953}} During Scarborough's first [pit stop], he felt sick from the heat and fumes at the race. After a fuel spill during the pit

WikiProject Articles for creation Backlog Elimination Drive
 Hello, EricEnfermero:

WikiProject AFC is holding a two month long Backlog Elimination Drive!

The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from December 1st, 2013 – January 31st, 2014.

Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the drive's page and help out!

A new version of our AfC helper script has been released! It includes many bug fixes, new improvements and features, code enhancements, and more. If you want to see a full list of changes, visit the changelog. Please report bugs and feature requests there, too! Thanks. EdwardsBot (talk) 09:21, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Delivered by EdwardsBot (talk) at 09:21, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

A brownie for you!

 * I appreciate this, Keithbob. Thanks for the kind gesture. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 10:14, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Some baklava for you!

 * No problem! I'm glad to help whenever I can. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 10:14, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library Survey
As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasit &#124; c 14:49, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Talkback
Hi Eric, mind condensing the steriod section? Thanks. We're so close.  Sports guy 17  (talk • contribs • sign) 02:35, 9 December 2013 (UTC)  Sports guy 17  (talk • contribs • sign)  02:35, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I tried to tweak it a little. The organization of the whole thing still strikes me as a little odd. I think we'd do better to put some of the stuff - like the 21st century stuff in the section mostly about the 50s and 60s - in more chronological order. It may still work for GA status though. I am a little pressed for time this week, so I hope it will. All of my previous GAs have been much more narrow topics and much easier to organize. Thanks for all of the work you've done. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 04:31, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Eric. I too am pressed this week. I think despite the semi-awkwardness of the history section, I think its safe to "pull the trigger" and ask Go Phightins! to pass or fail it. It looks like it'd pass .  Sports guy 17  (talk • contribs • sign) 02:31, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Ice Box Chamberlain
Orlady (talk) 23:22, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice job on this article! Regards, Newyorkbrad (talk) 02:49, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Newyorkbrad. I appreciate that! EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 08:04, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Million Award
For your efforts in improving Major League Baseball, in the absence of project founder, I hereby present you a million award, as this article, over the preceding year, has been viewed over a million times. Expanding and improving top importance articles is of utmost importance to create a high-quality encyclopedia, and through your efforts with, you have done so. Congratulations. Here is a userbox for your display: Thanks again!  Go  Phightins  !  12:38, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you sir! I appreciate the tons of time that you spend working to make Wikipedia a better place to collaborate. EricEnfermeroMobile (talk) 23:43, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Eric, I dropped my own note at my talkpage, but wanted you to know that its users like you who make this project a collaborative, enjoyable place. Trust me, I hope to work with you on another article again, be it another top-importance article or indeed a stub, etc. Best,  Sports guy 17  (talk • contribs • sign) 01:29, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Hey - thanks! I would absolutely welcome that opportunity. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 08:24, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Oh, also, was just going to mention that User:Muboshgu (a very dedicated baseball editor here) has a really helpful user page known as Baseball Mountain. The page tracks the ratings of some of the most important articles within our project. I wasn't sure whether you had seen it or not. I've found it very helpful when I'm looking for important baseball content to expand. You might check it out when you're ready to expand your next article. Give me a shout whenever I can help. Thanks again for your work! EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 08:49, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

December 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=586063767 your edit] to University of Houston–Clear Lake may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just [ edit the page] again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?action=edit&preload=User:A930913/BBpreload&editintro=User:A930913/BBeditintro&minor=&title=User_talk:A930913&preloadtitle=BracketBot%20–%20&section=new my operator's talk page].
 * List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 16:57, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Campus|url=http://www.pearlandedc.com/Pearland-Developments/UHCL-Pearland-Campus.aspx|publisher= Pearland Economic Development Corporation|accessdate=December 14, 2013}}

Bill Greiner
Eric, I would have appreciated that if you believed this article is promotion, that you could share it with me rather than eliminating more than 1,500 characters of text and four references. Please maintain the article as it is written, and I will go back and clean it up. Do not just go in and eliminate the time and effort that I have invested in this. I am not a relative and am not affiliated with any of the Greiner family. Do not assume and do not judge. It would have been more professional of you to share your concerns with me rather than edit out much of my work. Give me some time to make the article more neutral. Patience is appreciated, Daniellagreen (talk) 01:43, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Daniella - I don't believe that the entire article is promotional. If it had been, then the article would have qualified for a process known as speedy deletion, not just removal of relatively small sections of the text. (See WP:SPEEDY and WP:G11.) That clearly isn't the case here. In the Greiner entry, we have a decent article that is made harder to read by two factors: 1) some of the sentences are sourced with a huge number of redundant references, some of which are questionably reliable sources anyway; and 2) some of the assertions in the article state opinions like they are objective facts or they focus on non-encyclopedic aspects of the man's life. If we read a standard encyclopedia entry on a notable figure, we would never see anything in the entry about whether the subject was a good family man or how many grandkids he had.


 * My changes to the Greiner article were intended to address those two factors. My edit summary was probably over the top, but if I had just taken out the material without a a specific edit summary, most editors would have been even more angry than you are now. If we can make simple changes to an article that will allow it to read more professionally, we should pursue (rather than protest against) those changes. I've certainly written things in my Wikipedia time that didn't come across to others the way I intended them. And that's okay. That writing later gets edited into something that better complies with Wikipedia's guidelines, then we all move on to improve the next article together. I'm hoping that you'll continue to work with us in that spirit of improving articles and remain open to the changes that are made to your writing. If I can help you in any way that is consistent with WP guidelines, I'm certainly willing to.  EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 10:10, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Eric, Thank you for finally communicating with me, rather than appearing to just make large block deletes to the article, Bill Greiner. I will simply repost my response to Buster 7 here, to you as well: "Buster 7, The fact is, there has been damage done to the article, including vandalism by RedPenOfDoom that another editor corrected.  Wikipedia suggests that editors talk with each other their talk pages to work things out if there are disagreements, however neither editor (EricEnfermero and RedPenOfDoom) did this until I did so with them.  A spirit of cooperation and professionalism is essential to promote patience, understanding and learning on Wikipedia, and that was not evidenced by either editor due to their sweeping deletes of almost 2,000 characters to the Bill Greiner article.  I kindly asked both editors to allow me the opportunity to make the article less promotional and more neutral, as was their interest.  I have done so.  I went in and reverted both of their sweeping edits, and was successful in editing 1,500 characters on my own.  Other experienced editors such as John_from_Idegon understand that it is better to make suggestions to an editor, and allow her or him to make edits independently.  That is the true type of spirit of cooperation that is necessary here, and is borne from more professionalism, understanding, and wisdom than that which I experienced from both Erie and Red.  So, perhaps it is they for whom it could be very important to understand that to go in and make sweeping changes to an article without communicating with another editor, and/or to actually vandalize and damage an article, and leave it for others to fix, does not have their good intentions in mind.  I believe that once they learn how to be more cooperative, and less conflictual, as has been expressed repeatedly, for example, on RedPenOfDoom's talk page, that is where the true learning experience for them will occur.  Daniellagreen (talk) 15:09, 12 December 2013 (UTC)""  That stated, I see where you have gone back into the article, having added and contributed to it.  That is the spirit of cooperation I'm talking about, rather than just making sweeping changes.  And, whether or not you believe my other concerns are irrelevant, I believe that it's important to keep in mind that these are real people here.  We cannot just take a 'slash and burn' approach that was previously evidenced by you and RedPenOfDoom on this article.  If editors claim to be more experienced, they should be willing to extend themselves and be more professional and cooperative, evidencing the wisdom that should accompany such experience.  Daniellagreen (talk) 15:09, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Daniella - First of all, I'd like to emphasize that I'm sorry to have upset you. I do think it's important to recognize that there are real people here behind the edits. I'd like to make it clear that none of my edits, whether or not they changed or even criticized edits you made, reflect on my thoughts of you as a person. I don't know you at all and I have no reason to dislike you, to make assumptions about you or to attempt to offend you. The edits I made improved an article that sounded like it was written by someone who had a close connection to Greiner. If I implied that you were truly related to him, I apologize to you. That's not what I meant to say and I should have phrased the edit summary more carefully.


 * I do think that when there are specific disagreements, discussion is good. However, again, Wikipedia doesn't require or even encourage that an editor discuss non-controversial proposed changes to articles with the editors who have previously helped on the articles. One of our key tenets here is to be bold in editing articles. Once disagreement ensues, the bold, revert, discuss cycle is used. When I made the initial edit or edits that took out the non-encyclopedic language in the Greiner article, I had no way to know that anyone would object (or that anyone would even remotely consider reverting those changes simply out of a feeling that we should have talked about it).


 * Our progress would be significantly slowed on Wikipedia if discussion were required before each edit. Instead, we follow guidelines that have already been set by the project. The Manual of Style gives us some of those guidelines, as do the five pillars that are considered key to editing collaboratively on this project. Also keep in mind that vandalism has a very specific definition on Wikipedia and that some people will get a little irritated if you drag that term into discussions describing edits that you disagree with. Personally, it won't matter to me, because editing Wikipedia isn't about me or my feelings; it's about making an encyclopedia better and better. Some people will get pretty hot following that accusation though.


 * I'm not really sure what else I'm supposed to say in this situation. It's not one that I've encountered to this magnitude before. Let me know though if I can clarify anything I've said or if I can help you in any way as we both fulfill our goals of enhancing the encyclopedia. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 15:52, 12 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Follow-up to your comments on my talk page: Eric, I have already moved on from this issue. I don't see it as something that is going to change.  I understand where you're coming from, but I also understand that there are also differences in perspectives between men and women.  Often, I see men placing policy before people and feelings.  Men often chalk issues up to "just doing their job," but don't realize they've trampled on women's concerns.  And then, when they are called on it, it is often denied, even when the evidence is right there in plain sight.  I have already resolved for myself that I made my contributions to this article, and have moved on.  We can beat this to death, or we can learn from it.  Right now, I have learned that I'm not going to be creating any articles for awhile.  I'll stick to the simpler aspects such as making contributions and minor edits.  I hope that you have also learned that your making sweeping changes to an article are unnecessary prior to communicating with an editor who has an investment in the article.  All kind of excuses can be made about it being unrealistic, having confusing expectations, or being condoned by policy rather than professional courtesy.  What I experienced in the edits on the article from you and Red were nothing short of devastating, and has completely changed my outlook for the worse.  That is the effect it had on me, and is why I will be sticking to simpler things.  My general experience in writing and journalism has been much different to what I experienced with just this one article, so if that's how things are generally done, then I really don't need to be a part of it.  There can be all kinds of reasons that you would like to give, however that doesn't change how I feel in regard to the manner in which 2,000 characters were deleted in an edit war between the three of us.  We approach this from a different perspective.  The damage was done, and I'm done with that article.  I'm still licking fresh wounds, no matter how you would like to characterize it.  'Nuf said. Daniellagreen (talk) 21:15, 13 December 2013 (UTC) Daniellagreen (talk) 21:19, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate that you are moving past this. I would have liked to hear more specifics on your perspective, particularly on when to edit versus when to discuss and how to make that practical, but I respect the decision that you have made. I'm disappointed by your comments on the role of gender and how you perceive that they affected our interactions; most people who know me say that I'm a pretty gender-atypical person in most respects. Again though, my personal feelings won't affect our ability to work together going forward. If I can help you in any way, just ask. I'm not going to edit anything that I know you have created, just so that we can let this all blow over. EricEnfermero HOWDY! 23:30, 13 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Eric, I would like to offer up some more information for understanding about my approach to this article. Obviously, I took the edits very hard.  It was painful, though I will work through it with time.  There is alot more that I invested in this article than simply creating the article.  Prior to creating this article, I had created a couple of others, and have done lots of edits to others.  My general experiences with all those were good, so, emotionally, I was not prepared for what occurred with this article.  I had alot emotionally invested into the article, and I was just unprepared for what occurred, and I took it very hard.  Really, it just hurts, but as I say, I will work through it.  There's just alot that I don't want to share and would prefer to remain confidential for myself.  Just the edits dredged up alot of hurt, so you might imagine that it took much for me even to entertain the idea of creating the article, let alone to do it.  I was actually surprised and disappointed that an article on the subject did not already exist, so when I discovered that, it took me some time and the building of my confidence to actually do it.  So, I realize that you did what would come naturally for you.  It was just that I had not before experienced such sweeping changes that I believed I could have also made more of an effort to make myself.  I understand that articles should be well-balanced, providing both sides of the story.  And, I also realize that article should not include potentially unreliable sources, though I also believe that every effort should be made to locate similar reliable sources in their place.  Thank you for editing the article so that it is more balanced.  Certainly, not everything that Greiner did was great, and that was not my point in creating the article, although I do believe in the importance of providing as much information about a subject as possible so that there is a well-rounded perspective shared.  So, this is my feeble attempt at an apology to you.  Perhaps I just should not have done the article, as I see now.  I just had too much emotionally invested in it, and was not prepared for what occurred.  Thanks, Daniellagreen (talk) 18:43, 15 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I appreciate your message, Daniella. There are definitely some topics here that I know I should avoid too, either because I'd find it difficult to be neutral or for other personal reasons. And even though our articles here don't have owners, I know that no one likes to spend a great deal of time on an article only to come back and find it missing a chunk of text. Thank you for your response. If you ever feel like you have a good potential subject for a WP article but don't want to write it yourself, you might make a request at WP:REQ. I peek there occasionally to check for requested articles in my areas of interest. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 19:33, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Kaiser Wilhelm (baseball)
Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 14:47, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Happy Holidays!

 * Thank you, sir! Best to you as well! It's always great to work with you. EricEnfermero  HOWDY! 01:03, 22 December 2013 (UTC)