User talk:Laualoha/Aloha For All Discussion -- ctd.

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...And maybe your friends have a problem with the fact that being native does have something to do with one's ancestors, but you have to understand how hypocritical it looks. I mean, how do you think Uncle Thurston got his pocketful of startup cash? That's right, He INHERITED it. Where? From his ANCESTORS, of course. And who gave them the land that they turned into this family fortune? That's right, from those terrible Ali'i's, who for some reason thought that he and his offspring would protect it for the maka'ainana who lived there, since he was a Man of God. Now, if Uncle T. was out there -- like Ninia Parks, for example -- using his money, education and privilege to bust his ass helping peoplewho've been screwed by the current system for generations, and to correct the injustice that's been done to them by his own clan, maybe he'd get a little more respect. How's that for a suggestion?--Laualoha 00:30, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Jere: I'm sorry, perhaps we need a list so we can clearly identify the many non-rich, non-white, and non-powerful people involved in GRIH/A4A. One could just as easily make a note that the Akaka Bill supporters are rich, part-white, and powerful...either way, it seems like a mean spirited ad hominem (as if being rich, or white, or powerful makes you inherently unable to seek or find the truth). Inheritance, as you point out, is something that some people have benefited from - but this inheritance is not simply by blood. Ties of family, including adoption, cross genetic lines. If you'd like to advocate for a protection of inheritance laws, fine - but to assert that the only valid inheritors of a persons wealth must be their direct genetic descendants is simply untenable.

Insofar as Thurston's charitable works, he's donated more money than I'll probably see in a lifetime to various groups and institutions. Far from being a robber-baron, he's a philanthropist. And he's certainly been working hard to protect the civil rights of all people in Hawaii, by eliminating race-based discrimination in government - why doesn't that engender your respect?

Why don't you give me a list of people who are currently screwed by the system, and we'll work on getting them the help they need. Start with just one family if you'd like. I'm sure that Twigg-Smith would be more than happy to help people on a needs basis rather than a race-basis - that's what he's advocated for for years. --JereKrischel 20:16, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Laualoha:Jere, being rich, powerful, and white does not make you stupid or ignorant. However, if you are rich, powerful and white AND deliberately manipulate the truth so others like you can keep being ignorant, that's not good. My point in regard to AFA is that people from extremely privileged and powerful backgrounds whining from their mansions full of dead koa trees about how the extremely oppressed host culture (which can clearly be seen in every jail, blue-tarp beach settlement, and lower-income hospital in Hawai'i)oppressing them IS hypocritical. I'm certainly not saying that there are no middle-class hypocrites at OHA, but unfortunately their borderline mendacities are rather paled in the climate of brazen racism created by the AFAs of today.--Laualoha 22:00, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

p.s. if Thurston wants to help, tell him to send me a message. I do have a list. See /note.

Jere: I guess I'm afraid I just don't see any proof for your claims that A4A, or GRIH are trying to keep people ignorant - if anything, they've been very involved in trying to expand the knowledge and open up the discussion. And conflating blue-tarp beach settlements, jails, and lower-income hospitals with race-based privilege is a red herring - the problem civil rights activists have with government programs for a specific race is not with the poor people who may benefit from them, it is with the idea that they should be race-based at all. Targeting people by race simply isn't good public policy.

What would you ask for a family in need on your list? Direct cash assistance? Education and training for higher skilled jobs? Drug rehabilitation and counseling?

And more importantly, would a family be excluded from your list if they didn't have the right DNA? Would you put anyone on your list that wasn't directly descendant from a pre-1778 immigrant to Hawaii?

And what do you think is so oppressed about the "host culture" of Hawaii (leaving out the fact that you're probably using that as shorthand for the ancient Hawaiian culture, ignoring the rich and deep multi-ethnic modern Hawaiian culture that exists today)? I keep hearing that refrain, but I simply have no idea whether or not you have a specific, concrete instance of that you can speak of. Are there religious practices that aren't allowed? Are there dances and songs not permitted? Is it illegal to speak, teach, or learn the language? Are people of that host culture forbidden to vote, participate in government, or exercise the civil liberties common to all people in Hawaii?

Anyway, mahalo for sharing your mana'o, hopefully if you have some concrete proposals for helping families in need, we can come up with a better plan for OHAs money, to help people based on their circumstances, not their racial background. --JereKrischel 22:10, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

/for Jere Only--Laualoha 22:25, 1 September 2007 (UTC)