User talk:Lawungkurr

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Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 06:05, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

PS: Would be extremely grateful for the page numbers of the book that mention the northern rosella. Also, are there any indigenous names or stories about it? Also, would you have any other photos of it...? cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:10, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

As an example, I improved the page on Willie wagtail, and managed to import many names and folklore from around the country into it. Cheers, Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 04:12, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

Adding citations
Hi, when you edit articles can you please add in-text citations to reliable sources? If you edit using visual editor, just click the "cite" button at the top toolbar while in edit mode. If you edit with source editor, you'll add citations using ref tags and a citation template. It would look like this

With books, it's very important to include a page number. This assists with verifiability. You can copy and paste the above code for any content you want to add to an article from this book. Let me know if you need help. Enwebb (talk) 23:09, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Enwebb, thank you for your valuable help in adding citations to Wikipedia entries. It's not always possible to add a page number, for example Internet sources rarely have them.Lawungkurr (talk) 15:59, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Help me!
help me

Hello Cas Uber. I have just found your query re Northern Rosella, but am not sure where I can answer it!

Please help me with...

I am presently entering information from my Fauna of Kakadu and the Top End (1993). I am not sure how to reference, and plan to tackle that after I've entered all the information.

Denise Lawungkurr Goodfellow Lawungkurr (talk) 23:35, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * If you want to address, you need to include their username in your addition, as I've done here.
 * You've been sprinkling incomplete references to the Goodfellow book without providing proper citations. has shown you how to do this. When you don't provide a usable citation, your additions are subject to removal, as I did one of yours on Thylacine. For book references, page numbers are essential.  — jmcgnh (talk)  (contribs) 00:48, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Possible COI
I notice that your user name is the same as the middle name given for Denise Goodfellow. Is it possible you have a connection to Goodfellow that is influencing your activity to add references to her book to many articles? This kind of activity is generally viewed as unhelpful to the encyclopedia, considered as REFSPAM. Please clarify and include a disclosure, if appropriate, on your user page.  — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 01:10, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Not to put too fine a point on it, you should not be adding references to your own publications.  — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 02:31, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I have clarified the entry for Lawungkurr. Elders told me of this name in 2000 - they had been deliberating for 17 years, but until then I never knew what they had decided. This is why the name is not mentioned on my earlier publications.

As for your second point: there are often no other references. For example, there is no record of my name 'Lawungkurr' in the Northern Territory State Library. Such information is being lost as elders die and people leave their country.
 * I would advise you to proceed with more caution in the future. People come to Wikipedia every single day to advance their own interests instead of the interests of the encyclopedia. You haven't edited very much, and then today you insert a string of references to your own publication in dozens of articles. It's enough to make people question whether you're here to build an encyclopedia or here to promote your work. If you're really dedicated to improving Wikipedia, I would lay off the self-referencing for a while, and only cite your work when it is the best available source, even then disclosing that you have a conflict of interest on the article talk page or on your user page. Credibility is important around here. Enwebb (talk) 03:14, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

I understand the importance of credibility, but thank you for the warning. What do you suggest seeing that much of the information I post is not available elsewhere? Traditional owners for the outstation Kudjekbinj (Baby Dreaming), west Arnhem Land asked that I as a family member record their information for posterity, which I have done, in Fauna of Kakadu and the Top End, Birds of Australia's Top End, and Quiet Snake Dreaming, and numerous papers and lectures. The Northern Territory State Library has asked for my tapes etc., but family members, most of whom do not have English as a first language would have no access. Then again, perhaps I could use post it on Facebook. Lawungkurr (talk) 05:27, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I think there are two issues here to separate. One is potential conflict of interest. You don't want to look like you've come to Wikipedia to preferentially cite your own published work. All your edits would get removed, you'd get discouraged, and you'd leave. You also want to make sure that you're citing what we call reliable sources. Importantly, reliable sources have to be published. Your personal notes, observations, or recordings of interviews are not considered reliable if they are not published. Several of your edits have been removed because you've cited personal communication. Sources like this are not allowable because they are not verifiable. So please stick to only using published sources, make sure you cite them correctly like I showed you above. Again, echoing my earlier advice, only cite your own work if it is the best available source, and even then you should disclose a conflict of interest on the article talk page or on your user page. Enwebb (talk) 15:00, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

As I've mentioned to others I used qualitative research in my thesis. That of course, was previously unpublished because it was original research. Much of the information I have quoted from Fauna of Kakadu and the Top End is not published elsewhere. Not only that but this book was the first publication on Australian fauna to use a local Aboriginal language. But please, remove all you like. An Aboriginal relative has suggested that as well as giving this information to the NT State Library who have requested it, and posting on Facebook, I send it to the school in Gunbalanya, western Arnhem Land. Lawungkurr (talk) 16:04, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

How to reply to messages
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Hope it helps - for replying at this talk page, and at article talk pages. It helps you ask questions quickly and easily.

Best regards, --Gryllida (talk) 02:19, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Gryllida (love the name. You should see all the gryllids here on my place in the Top End of Australia). Ive decided for the time being not to post my information having been the subject of much criticism from other members. Instead, I'll post it on Facebook so that all my young Aboriginal relatives can see. Thank you for your best wishes.
 * Thank you. :-)
 * The new messages are not necessarily for sharing personal information -- it can be anything about edits to an article, or an answer to someone's question.
 * I'm glad that you appear to be able to use this system. It is a bit tricky sometimes.
 * Regards, --Gryllida (talk) 07:46, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

Please check these projects, Lawungkurr :)
Please check these "Wiki Projects" (link):


 * WikiProject Australia
 * WikiProject Mammals
 * WikiProject Biology

Please consider joining these wiki projects and checking out their people, and their to-do lists (practice). They would be delighted to help you learn to edit Wikipedia, and expand your knowledge (or share your knowledge) in these topics.

If you have any questions, the best way to get help is at the WikiProject, or an article talk page. If you need assistance with general queries unrelated to a particular topic or article, please see the tea house, or leave me a message.

Thanks and best regards, --Gryllida (talk) 02:23, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

February 2020
Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to violate Wikipedia's no original research policy by adding your personal analysis or synthesis into articles, as you did at Thylacine, you may be blocked from editing. '' Please do some research on the correct method of referencing Wikipedia. You cannot simply add hearsay or comments that have been said to you personally, they will be quickly removed. It is also not acceptable to continually reference your own published works. I strongly recommend WP:Tutorial/Citing sources.'' Mountain cirque 13:30, 25 February 2020 (UTC).

The information came from Aboriginal elders living on their country. In my papers for peer-reviewed journals the words of Aboriginal elders have never been queried. Research for my PhD was both qualitative and quantititave. By your reckoning the qualitative research is not legitimate. And my book, Fauna of Kakadu and the Top End, was the first to use a local Aboriginal language, to give voice to Aboriginal people who did not speak English as a first language and were not literate. neither will I be including original information from Birds of Australia's Top End,the first Australian bird book to use a local Aboriginal language.

I now know how to include references on Wikipedia and have begun changing my entries. But I have advised Kunwinjku family members that I will not be adding any more information to Wikipedia than what I've already included. Instead, I'll do as originally intended to post the information on Facebook for family members and others and give all my documentation to the Northern Territory State Library.Lawungkurr (talk) 15:22, 25 February 2020 (UTC)


 * I may have been a little harsh with this warning but it was intended to make you review your approach not discourage you. Your information is perfectly valid but your initial approach to referencing was incorrect and meant that your additions were likely to be almost immediately removed. As an academic writer you should treat Wikipedia the same as a literature review, any factual claims should be backed up by a reference at the end of the sentence or paragraph. You are perfectly within your rights to add the personal experience of elders as long as that information is in an independent published source or online. Are any of your papers or booksavailable online? As I note in a response below, you could post a list of relevant papers/books to the talk page of any article and transparently say: these are great references for this article, leaving editors and people watching that page to review and include the key facts. I recommend trying to get as much of your work as possible available online as that is where the most people will get value from it in the long-term. Mountain cirque 10:16, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, Lawungkurr! Thank you for your contributions. I am Mountaincirque and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Questions or type at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes ( ~ ); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Mountain cirque 13:32, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
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Thank you very much for your welcome message (and the chocolate chip cookies). With the help of others I have figured out how to reference my entries. Unfortunately, I will not post any more. Several members have told me there is a conflict of interest in my citing my own publication, Fauna of Kakadu and the Top End. This book was the first to use a local Aboriginal language and much of the information is not published elsewhere. Furthermore, most of my sources for the book are no longer alive. But even if they were they wouldn't be publishing as none were literate or had English as a first language. Peterson Nganjmirra whom I quote, did not see a white person until he was eight years old. This book was used as a 'core text' by the University of NSW summer school for 14 years. Lawungkurr (talk) 16:17, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Please do not be discouraged! There are other ways that you can help to improve articles, I would start by posting to the talk page of the article in question where you are perfectly within your rights to say 'this section is incorrect' based on this reference (which could be your own work). Then neutral editors can review and add in the content. It is a shame that your book is not available in print or online, do you have a digital version of it? You could consider adding it to Google Books? Guidance here: . Please don't think that your knowledge is not valued, it just has to be entered in the proper way to make sure that it is valid and remains on the wikipedia for a long time to come. Don't hesitate to post to my talk page with any more queries Mountain cirque 10:09, 26 February 2020 (UTC)