User talk:Lear 21/Archive 2

EU page
Which change did you object to? Did you need to change the whole lot back!! Wikidea 03:00, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Talk:European Union
The page has disappeared (loads no content).Paul111 19:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Page deleted / no discussion / EU discussion page emerging super-discussion / why deletionist? Countersubject 22:33, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I´m not sure what is meant. I archived finished discussions in Archive 9. Lear 21 23:09, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

EU
Please stop!!! LUCPOL 01:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Possible impersonation of Lear 21
Hi, someone claiming to be you left this message on my user page:

"Create serious arguments! Make useful contributions! Stop babbling! Stop deleting content! This is the last personal suggestion of Lear 21 00:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)"

It's so extraordinary that I'm sure it's a joke, and can't possibly be from a responsible Wikipedian like yourself. Countersubject 01:05, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

More impersonation of Lear 21
Dear Lear 21, whoever recently impersonated you has done so again. They've left an hysterical note on my discussion page, and claimed that it's from you:

"You are an attention seeker, right? Stop it! Stop your constant provocation, you read that! Stick to the issues that are discussed in the EU article, instead of whining. This has an end now! You describe yourself as Eurosceptic, Europhob. Why do you FEEL competent about EU then? To be more precise; Why do you THINK you have the ability to judge? Have you lived in several countries? Are you an academic in one of the relevant topics? Have you read many city or country articles in different languages. Do you know the UN article? The current contributions of yours all indicate, NO! Instead, your edits signalise agitational underclass views. This has an end now! Please consider to contribute to Eurosceptic article, as you are an expert in this field. Or create Europhobia article, must be fun ! If you are unsure about the quality I´m aiming for the EU aricle, read the Berlin article. This has almost reached Featured Article Status, after 6 month work. Almost all references in Berlin are provided by myself, also the complete layout,images and written content in all sections. Was that clear ? Lear 21 21:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)"

I don't for one second believe it can really be from you; you wouldn't stalk and harrass me in this intimidating way, just because you disagree with my edits.

By the way: did you ever find out who wrote that threatening note to Paul111 in your name, on the EU discussion page? It might be the same person.

Do you think it would help if I posted the above to the EU discussion page? One of our fellow editors may be able to help us identify the imposter.

Regards,

Countersubject 22:12, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

EU languages
True, it has become a bit lengthy, disproportional with the length of the rest of the article. In fact, I do not know the intended length of the whole article. OK, I 'll do my best to summarise it a bit. The info on EU citizens language skills I used in the article are according to the Eurobarometer I mention there. The problem is that there is an inconsistency with the Languages in the European Union article, because someone had the brilliant idea to make his own -arbitrary- calculations to show Bulgaria and Romania as members of the EU though the survey was published before there accession. The result is a mess. Of course, he cared only for the tables. In the text there are the old numbers. The version with the original numbers is this. Please use this instead of the current version. The problem was that I took the subject to the talk page to avoid revert wars, but he was insisting at a time nobody else was paying attention to the article and his edits are still there. I believe it is better to have the latest authoritative data stating explicitly when they were published, than make "calculations" to "update" a survey on your own. I will mention this also in the talk page of the EU article.--Michkalas 14:02, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I am done with this section. See also the talk page of the article.
 * But I am leaving this message mostly to propose you something. You maybe know that there is already a WikiProject European Union. But it is frozen, inactive, though the -alleged- participants are many. The activation of this project is absolutely neccessary. Though there is a featured Portal:European Union and there are many informative articles, there are many problems in the EU-related articles. Gaps and inconsistencies are one. In fact, it is impossible to right a really good or FA level article without being supported with good quality special articles. The information and the sources are also, more or less, the same. Without a project, it is difficult to set priorities, to rate (correctly) articles, to make them consistent in structure and information. For instance, the article on José Manuel Durão Barroso is rated with an A! In fact, it is more something like B. Most of the articles on the EU Commissioners are in fact just a little better than stubs. So maybe we can take some initiative to reactive the WikiProject on EU.--Michkalas 16:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of talk page
Hi again, just to complete your set of warnings - please don't just delete your talk page, this is also against Wikipedia policy! MarkThomas 23:24, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Not deleted, but archived. Lear 21 23:33, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, my apologies, missed the archiving action. MarkThomas 23:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

European Union - WP:CIVIL (again)
Please help Wikipedia by not addressing other users with aggressive language, as you did in the edit summary of your reversion of 13:26, 5 February 2007. Far better to take it to the discussion page. Countersubject 13:49, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Barcelona population
I did not add this new figure. The figures I have references for are the 2005 ones. I don't know who put this 2006 figure or where they got it from, since the 2006 figures are not yet in the city council's webpage. --Andromeda 08:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Impersonation?
There seems to be someone arguing vaguely on the discussion page of France in your name. I do not expect it to be you seeing your user page. Perhaps you should check it out. This is on the topic of the French economy, one of the last section opened in the discussion page. A direct link. Best regards. --Huygens 25 18:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

City figures
My edits were not reverted by "several editors". They were reverted by you essentially, and then one anonymous IP from Norway. You have reverted my edits without even explaining why on the talk page, just stating in your revert that somehow it "blows up" the section. That's a bit short! All I can see so far is that you like to present your home city Berlin as the second largest city in the EU, using population within city limits to do so, whereas you know full well that city limits vary from country to country and are quite meaningless. Paris or Madrid have way more inhabitants than Berlin in their urban and metro areas, so please stop using Wikipedia to propagate Deutschland-über-alles propaganda. I notice from Talk:France that you tend to have a rather antagonistic way to edit Wikipedia, running headlong into other editors. I don't think that's the way to behave on Wikipedia. Now if you have something serious to say, please express it on the relevant talk pages, in a civil manner, instead of reverting people at will. Keizuko 00:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

You are the one, which hasnt commented on talk page once. Your new table is oversized. All relevant EU cities, urban areas, metro areas are represented in the section in a standard way: compare USA, China, others. The cities with image also represent the political centers of the biggest countries. PLUS : There is most certainly a relevance deriving from city limits, as they are proper of political power exercised by a Mayor or Governeur. Lear 21 01:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Flag tips
I have some templates for simplifying display of flags on your user page (or in user boxes). I created and  to support the Places I have been portion of my user page.

However, if you want to display just the flags, you can call and. They take a series of codes (top level domain codes for nations and postal codes for provinces or states) and return an SVG. If that SVG ever moves, you get the new location once I update the template. (You might need to purge your page.) Will (Talk - contribs) 01:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

E.U. "If ranked".
I added "If ranked" to the E.U. information bar because it was always there and because certain rankes belong to actual countries but at the same time are shared with the E.U. which makes no sense. "If ranked" needs to be there so people know that the E.U. does not hold those ranks but IF it were a country it would hold them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.211.254.144 (talk) 01:55, 22 February 2007 (UTC).

This contradiction is explained in the footnote. No need to mess up the infobox. Lear 21 01:58, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Historical Eastern Germany
Perhaps you'd be interested in this:Talk:Historical_Eastern_Germany. -- Hrödberäht (gespräch) 04:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

WP Munich
 Hello,

You are invited to join WikiProject Munich!

There are a lot of things to do in this project. From creating new articles to finetuning articles into featured article status.

How can you help?
 * You can join a Task Force.
 * You can help comform Munich-related articles to Wikipedia Policy.
 * You can get free Munich-related images under GNU Free Documentation License.
 * You can create and edit of Munich-related articles.
 * You can do translations from German Wikipedia to English Wikipedia on Munich-related articles.
 * You can help do assessments of Munich-related articles.
 * You can help expand articles currently in the Stub-class and Start-class.
 * You can help reference articles.
 * Since original research is against Wikipedia policy, you can research topics to expand. This means you don't need to know anything about Munich.
 * You can help expand stubs and start-class articles and help finetune other articles into Featured article status.

A WikiProject of this nature is very broad. Munich has a rich history in sports, culture, politics along with many more topics. Feel free to help out in your area of interest.

If you want to check the project out you can click the link above. If you want to join the project, you can sign up here.

If you have any questions feel free to contact myself or any other member of the project.

 Kingjeff 23:46, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

hr wiki
although i agree Germany should appear on main page and it will, i don't see the importance of that information on croatian wikipedia. cheers, West Brom 4ever 11:18, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Germany revert
It looks like your revert on Germany (diff) may have crossed with another user's undo. You might wish to check whether you reverted what you meant to. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Berlin
Hallo. Du weißt kann, wie ein Hochhaus heißt auf deiner Aufnahme: ? Oder irgendein Hochhäuser in Berlin haben einen Artikel auf irgendeinem wikipedia? LUCPOL 09:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi, ich verstehe nicht ganz ... das Hochhaus auf dem Bild ist das 'Europacenter'. Mehr Hochhäuser sind vielleicht auf dem de: Wikipedia Berlin Portal oder auf skysraper.com Lear 21 14:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Ich eine Liste der Hochhäuser fand in Berlin. Es ist hier: de:Kategorie:Hohes Gebäude (Berlin). Ich danke hinter der Hilfe. LUCPOL 19:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

EU flag in the Germany infobox
Could you please explain why you keep reinserting the EU flag into the infobox, it serves no purpose whatsoever a discussion was held recently about placing the flag/coat of arms of cities in the infobox here and the consensus was that they should be removed thanks -- Barryob   Vigeur de dessus  23:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The flag documents an official symbol used by all EU member states :. It has almost a status comparable to the national flag. It is a vital part of the article and signalizes the degree of integration. By the way, accessing your userpage caused repeatingly crashes on my system (I use Firefox on XP). Lear 21 11:38, 14 April 2007 (UTC)


 * If so, suggest you propose its addition above/below/beside and at the same size as the national flag here rather than as a lone icon within the infobox body. (I think the latter effect may've been part of the reason there was a consensus not to add city coats-of-arms...) Yours, 13:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

City Coat of arms are not national symbols, the EU flag is (to some extent). Lear 21 13:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Superpower
Daniel has completely redone the Superpower article to remove all traces of the British and Spanish Empires. I really don't know what to do in this case. He has completely redone the entire article. Gdo01 01:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Template:Members of the European Union (EU)
Hi Lear 21,
 * ''(flag important for visual orientation)

Am wondering whether you've imagined (or seen) a stack of collapsed templates whose center-aligned titles are all preceded by flag icons...? I can imagine and understand your keeness to include flag icons – especially, it seems, the EU flag – but suggest it's possible to include too many...? Yours, David Kernow (talk) 13:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Basically I´m in favor to include icons in all template bars. Identifying the often overlooked templates is important. Lear 21 13:33, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


 * How do you feel the templates are overlooked...? If there's fewer than three, I don't think they're meant to autocollapse; where there's more than three (collapsed) templates, they form a distinctive block – at least, that's how they appear here. Re icons, if there's consensus to left-align templates' titles – thereby aligning any icons prefixing them – then adding them might work; I'm not sure, though, whether there would be any consensus to do so. Regards, David (talk) 17:22, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Infobox German Bundesland
Some of the changes you have made have adversely affected the other entries. A few points:
 * Map size - for some reason, the maps do not display at certain sizes. No idea why. This bugged me ages ago and it took a long time to find a size where all 16 images work. After your modification to that, 6 2 states do not display the map properly (see Template:Infobox German Bundesland/Test states).
 * Image layout - I was never happy with the image layout for the map, flag(s) and CoA. It made it look too big and wasn't at all standard. I have a new idea which I'll try soon.
 * Vorwahl/Kfz/PLZ - since Berlin and Hamburg are both cities and states, this information is standard. For other states, these fields are simply not displayed. I'll put them back.
 * Area_metro - Nice idea. As per the previous point, they would only be used for Berlin and Hamburg.
 * LOCODE/NUTS/ISO - true, these fields are unimportant. I had these originally there just to test them. They can go.
 * Elevation - by moving that, the bordering and margins have gone a bit funny. I'll fix them.

Once we have sorted this out, Berlin should adopt this template too, in order for all 16 Länder to be consistent. - 52 Pickup 12:29, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Nuts Region should be maintained. Vorwahl/Kfz/PLZ have minor relevance, there is no example in French British or American cities for it. Note that Berlin has also capital status and can´t be treated as single German Bundesland, the Europe map is important for instance. AND : one of the Flags in Infobox German Bundesland should be enough, for layout reasons. Lear 21 12:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The flag should be on the left side, COA on the right. The Time zone and coordinates need to be below the map. Lear 21 12:53, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Kfz is not given in other countries because the codes there have no meaning, unlike in Germany. If you look at Polish and Greek cities, for example, number plates are given. In the German case, there is of course no point listing all the codes for Bavaria, for example - that would make no sense. Only HB, HH and B are relevant. In Italian, Polish, Swiss, etc. city entries, the area and postal codes are shown. Why should NUTS be kept? No other country uses this information.
 * The fact that Berlin is a capital has no relevance here. All major capital cities (Paris, London, Tokyo, Washington DC, Moscow, etc.) all use the relevant infobox for their country. None of them use a separate manual infobox of their own. And none of them show the position of the country within the contintent - that is redundant information for a city entry (even for a capital) and should be handled in the country entry. Even the German wiki, the Berlin entry does not have a European map in the infobox.
 * The problem with the flags is that Bavaria has 2 types. I have a way around it.- 52 Pickup 13:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

The lack of city location within a continental context is the most obvious insufficiency for all American cities (out of all other countries). I always wonder how anybody can accept that (view L.A. or N.Y.C. where nobody recognizes the location within the USA). For all the other entries I have no specific preferences. NUTS Region documents the EU dimension of the distinctive regions and must be maintained. Lear 21 13:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Why don't you bring this up with the people reponsible for presenting cities? At least then some sort of consensus can be reached. But the map that you use only shows the location of Germany within Europe. Fine, the map showing Berlin's location within Germany is right next to it, but that is not the same thing. - 52 Pickup 13:39, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Why did you revert?
Please explain why you reverted my perfectly reasonable and minor changes to Berlin. (User: 86.31.77.75) Arcturus 13:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

It was by accident, sorry. Lear 21 13:28, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * OK, no problem. It was just abbreviating things like kilometer to km, thereby avoiding the American spelling. I'll change it next time I'm passing. Thanks. 86.31.64.64 20:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Note that the Berlin article consistently uses AM spelling. Lear 21 20:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I noticed some of that. Really it should be changed since Germany, like Britain, is a member of the EU, within which BrE is the official version of English. I think Wikipedia policy also has something along those lines. 86.31.77.12 19:03, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Infobox German Location
The CoA/map line is now fixed. The remaingin problem is the alignment problem with the population - that would go away if the population value was on a separate line. - 52 Pickup 10:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

German Bundesland
Image:Deutschland Lage von Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.svg Please re-include this type of map on all the German Bundesland articles and change the state flags without the coat of arms to the flags with coat of arms. 82.41.55.173 09:21, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The above problem has been caused by the changes you have made to the template. The above map is in the article, but it cannot be displayed. I told you a number of times to be careful with the map size, and even placed "DO NOT MODIFY" in that part of the code. I don't know what browser you use, but many SVG images do not display at certain sizes - no idea why. It took a long time to find the sizes that were good for the images for all 16 entries. But now for many of the states, it is no longer possible to see some flags or maps. You also requested a size setting for the new coa-field that you made in place of one of the flags. The old coa-field did have such a setting, but now you use that field purely for the Europe map, so now that doesn't work. Another feature that you have removed is the link to articles that tell more about the coat of arms - not all states use this feature (because not all states have such an entry), but now this feature doesn't work either. I don't have the time to clean up your mess again at the moment. You've done quite some damage and it will take some time to get all 16 entries working again. - 52 Pickup 18:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I have no idea what you're talking about. I didn't do any of those things, and you have never ever talked to me before, but I'd like to have a map of Germany showing the location of all the states back in the infobox as soon as possible. Many German states have two flags, the ones WITH the coat of arms on the flag are used most widely. 82.41.55.173 23:52, 29 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry - my above comments are directed at Lear21, not you. - 52 Pickup 05:55, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I´m sorry for the uncomplete code. It worked for the few Bundesländer I checked. Lear 21 15:17, 30 April 2007 (UTC)