User talk:Leftbehindthekids

January 2009
Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to make constructive contributions to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Gimme danger (talk) 19:59, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Vicki Byrne
You have reverted this from a redirect to an article twice now. Do you have references to demonstrate the notability of this fictional character that you plan to add to the article? gnfnrf (talk)
 * To expand my argument in this little one sided conversation, WP:FICT (a proposed guideline about fictional subjects) has three points to meet, and I don't see how this article meets any of them. First, the fictional work must be important or significant.  Left Behind may be so, but I see no evidence that Left Behind: The Kids is.  Second, the character must have an important or significant role within the work.  This is also not demonstrated.  Third, the article must be supported by reliable third party sources addressing the real-world nature of the character, not just the story of the work.  I don't think this article can meet these guidelines as proposed, so I believe your efforts should be spent on the parent article (which itself is borderline.)  If you disagree, please respond so we can work this out. gnfnrf (talk) 15:23, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I feel that your remarks on Left Behind: The Kids not being significant are upsetting. They are very significant in the teenage christian world and deserve a place on the site. As for Vicki, she is one of, if not, THE main character. I have not yet finished this article as schoolwork must take priority but I will make sure by the 10th of February that the page meets the guidelines which I have never seen before and will most certainly take into account.--Leftbehindthekids (talk) 16:11, 25 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have an opinion on whether Left Behind: The Kids is significant or important. What is missing is evidence that it is; substantial coverage in reliable sources.  But, my concern right now is not with the Left Behind: The Kids article.  My concern is with the Vicki Byrne article.  Is there so much verifiable material to write about her that she needs a separate article?  Keep in mind that Wikipedia articles are not for recounting the plots of fictional works (see WP:PLOT), they should focus on the real world impact, reception, and significance of the work.  My proposal is that you add the material about the character to the main Left Behind: The Kids article.  If someday, it grows so large with well referenced additions that it needs to be split up, then consider an article about Vicki Bryne. gnfnrf (talk) 03:08, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, could you say that in english?--Leftbehindthekids (talk) 18:51, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll try to make things more clear. First, the standard on Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth.  This is explained in depth at the policy page Verifiability.  This means that major factual claims in an article (particularly those that might be questioned) need to be supported by reliable sources.  What constitutes a reliable source is described at the Reliable Sources guideline.  In short, references should be from academically or journalistically credible publications, with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy.
 * In addition to being verifiable, Wikipedia articles must be about notable subjects. The general notability guidelines (part of the guidelines on Notability) say that a subject must have substantial coverage in reliable, third party sources. Reliable sources means what it does above, substantial means the coverage can't be just a passing mention, and third party means the source must be independent of the subject.  Certain narrower subjects have more specific notability guidelines, for example, there is one for books at Books.
 * Furthermore, Wikipedia articles about fiction should be written from a real-world perspective. That means writing about how the fictional element is dealt with, treated, talked about, created, etc. in the real world, not what happens in the fictional world.  Some plot summary is acceptable, but it should never be the majority of an article.  This is a consensus spread over many guidelines and policies, but the Manual of Style for Fiction and the proposed Fiction Guidelines cover much of it.
 * By these standards, Left Behind: The Kids is a weak article. It has no references to show notability, none of the information is verified, and all but a single sentence of the article is plot description and character biographies.  Nowhere does it talk about when the books were published, what the critical response was, how sales were, how Christian teen groups used them, or anything else in the real world.
 * However, this article can probably be improved. There are most likely reliable sources that DO talk about those things, and someday, someone may add information from them to the article.  There's no rush.
 * Vicki Byrne, on the other hand, is even worse off. Not only are there no references in the article, I don't think that any references discussing the character in a real world context even exist.  I can't think of a way that this article could ever be edited to meet the requirements of a fictional character article on Wikipedia, particularly when the notability guidelines for books say "it is not normally advisable to have a separate article on a character or thing from the book".  That's why I think it should just redirect to the main series article, where there is already a short fictional biography.
 * I hope that is sufficiently clear. If not, without more specific guidance I don't know how to explain it any better; I recommend asking another editor, perhaps a different person can communicate better. gnfnrf (talk) 02:41, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Redirect the article then, I will add the info to the Left Behind: The Kids Page. I have also added some information to the Left Behind: The Kids please tell me if I have done enough.--Leftbehindthekids (talk) 17:01, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. A page you recently created may not conform to some of Wikipedia's guidelines for new pages, so it will shortly be removed (if it hasn't been already). Please use the sandbox for any tests. For more information about creating articles, you may want to read Your first article. You may also want to read our introduction page to learn more about contributing. Ol Yeller '''Talktome 18:21, 19 February 2009 (UTC) REDIRECT IT TO LEFTBEHIND THE KIDS NOT LEFT BEHIND!!--Leftbehindthekids (talk) 14:45, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

June 2009
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