User talk:Legoktm/October 2022

The Signpost: 30 September 2022
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Administrators' newsletter – October 2022
News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2022).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg ScottishFinnishRadish
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Staxringold
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Ahoerstemeier (deceased) • Ched

Interface administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Cyberpower678

CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg GorillaWarfare

Guideline and policy news
 * Following an RfC, consensus was found that if the rationale for a block depends on information that is not available to all administrators, that information should be sent to the Arbitration Committee, a checkuser or an oversighter for action (as applicable, per ArbCom's recent updated guidance) instead of the administrator making the block.
 * Following an RfC, consensus has been found that, in the context of politics and science, the reliability of FoxNews.com is unclear and that additional considerations apply to its use.
 * Community comment on the revised Universal Code of Conduct enforcement guidelines is requested until 8 October.

Technical news
 * The Articles for creation helper script now automatically recognises administrator accounts which means your name does not need to be listed at WP:AFCP to help out. If you wish to help out at AFC, enable AFCH by navigating to and checking the "Yet Another AfC Helper Script" box.

Arbitration
 * Remedy 8.1 of the Muhammad images case will be rescinded 1 November following a motion.
 * A modification to the deletion RfC remedy in the Conduct in deletion-related editing case has been made to reaffirm the independence of the RfC and allow the moderators to split the RfC in two.
 * The second phase of the 2021-22 Discretionary Sanctions Review closes 3 October.

Miscellaneous
 * An administrator's account was recently compromised. Administrators are encouraged to check that their passwords are secure, and reminded that ArbCom reserves the right to not restore adminship in cases of poor account security. You can also use two-factor authentication (2FA) to provide an extra level of security.
 * Self-nominations for the electoral commission for the 2022 Arbitration Committee elections open 2 October and close 8 October.
 * You are invited to comment on candidates in the 2022 CUOS appointments process.
 * An RfC is open to discuss whether to make Vector 2022 the default skin on desktop.
 * Tech tip: You can do a fuzzy search of all deleted page titles at Special:Undelete.

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:43, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-40
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * Kartographer maps can now show geopoints from Wikidata, via QID or SPARQL query. Previously, this was only possible for geoshapes and geolines.
 * The Coolest Tool Award 2022 is looking for nominations. You can recommend tools until 12 October.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Talk pages on the mobile site will change at the Arabic, Bangla, Chinese, French, Haitian Creole, Hebrew, Korean, and Vietnamese Wikipedias. They should be easier to use and provide more information. (Last week's release was delayed)
 * Octicons-tools.svg The  API module will require a CSRF token. This module is documented as internal and use of it is not supported. [5]
 * The Vector 2022 skin will become the default across the smallest Wikimedia projects. Learn more.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 

MediaWiki message delivery 00:21, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Donetsk People's Republic (Russia)
Hi

You should close this AfD too. Panam2014 (talk) 14:31, 8 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Done, thanks, I hadn't seen this one yet. Legoktm (talk) 19:14, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Close at Articles for deletion/Kherson Oblast (Russia)
Could I ask you to reconsider your close of Articles for deletion/Kherson Oblast (Russia)? Discussion was still ongoing and there did not appear to be a clear consensus at the point you closed it, and if it needed to be closed at that point, should've been closed as "no consensus" (but ideally, relisted to get a more clear consensus). Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 07:11, 8 October 2022 (UTC)


 * This also applies to Articles for deletion/Lugansk People's Republic (Russia), which involved pretty much the same arguments. Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 07:13, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi @Elli, I didn't consider relisting it since it already saw wide participation and I didn't expect letting it stay open for longer to raise any novel arguments or really, clarify things. I tried to explain how I weighed the arguments to determine consensus in the Kherson Oblast AfD, do you see a flaw in that reasoning that would've led to a no consensus result? Legoktm (talk) 19:04, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The arguments citing WP:POVFORK were very flawed, seemingly not understanding what a POV fork is. The Russian Oblast and the Ukrainian Oblast are two separate governmental entities that have overlapping territory; covering them in the same article would be a total mess.
 * The WP:CRYSTALBALL argument was strongly pushed by a certain editor (who effectively bludgeoned the discussion), but it was refuted by (who didn't even support keeping the article, but seemed to think that particular argument was weak).
 * WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS wasn't a sufficient refutation of the arguments in favor of keeping the article. Citing precedent isn't inherently invalid; showing that other articles of this type exist is a pretty strong argument against POV fork claims (since the Taiwan article, for example, isn't a POV fork, and that's pretty obvious). Just because these have been established more recently doesn't mean we should use a different standard.
 * Speaking more generally, I know that many editors, myself included, feel strongly about this conflict, and don't want to legitimize Russia's actions. However, this of course will sometimes cloud people's judgement. If the USA invaded Mexico and claimed that Baja California was a US state, and then established an interim government and legislature, I am absolutely sure we would have an article on that state. However, because most of the relevant sources discussing the details of the administrative changes caused by the invasion are not in English, it's easier for some editors to push a narrative that the Russian Oblast and the Ukrainian Oblast are the same entity, or that the Russian one doesn't exist yet, even though neither of these is actually the case.
 * I hope that explains where I'm coming from here. This was a pretty complicated AfD, with decent arguments on both sides that were somewhat obscured by a ton of drive-by votes (also on both sides). Elli (talk &#124; contribs) 21:03, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Please don't do as the user above requests; I think your decision is correct. I was coming here to ask what should be done about the rash of single-purpose accounts participating in that AfD, some of whom are also posting counterfactual material on other articles relating to the war in Ukraine. GenevieveDEon (talk) 09:43, 8 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @GenevieveDEon: I don't have a simple answer for that, I think/hope the new strict protection regime will reduce the amount of SPAs interrupting/participating in these discussions. Legoktm (talk) 19:20, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Note: As an uninvolved admin, I endorse this close. BD2412 T 18:30, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Deletion review for Kherson Oblast (Russia)
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Kherson Oblast (Russia). Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. — kashmīrī  TALK  21:19, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-41
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * On some wikis, Kartographer maps in full size view will be able to display nearby articles. After a feedback period, more wikis will follow.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 

14:07, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allison Kopf
Hi How goes it? I was wondering how you managed to come to a no-consensus decision on the Articles for deletion/Allison Kopf when there was raw reading saw four deletes, two keeps and userfy request. It seems quite reasonable to consider deletion in that state, considering the state of the references?  scope_creep Talk  — Preceding undated comment added 04:54, 8 October 2022‎ (UTC)


 * @Scope creep: I've replied at the DRV. Though I don't really understand what the point of asking me for an explanation and then filing a deletion review 4 minutes later was... Legoktm (talk) 23:32, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Rfd close
Thank you for closing the long winded, complex discussion at Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_September_29. I was wondering about your finding of a consensus to retarget the two redirects with "object" while finding no consensus for "most massive". To me, there was no consensus between retargeting or deletion across the board for all 3 redirects, but unanimous consensus against the status quo. A finding of no consensus for the "object" redirects would not change the outcome, as they should be retargeted as an improvement over the current target pending future discussion. I already boldly retargeted "most massive" to the target that garnered the most support given the universal disagreement with the status quo, per WP:NCRET (and analogous to WP:NOGOODOPTIONS for page moves). So, I request you take another look at your close and consider revising it as no consensus, or comment on what tipped the scales for the "object" redirects, for instance, was Crouch's weak delete vote enough to push "most massive" into no consensus territory? If so, it would suggest the weakest possible consensus for the other redirects being discussed. Among those favoring retargeting, there was not universal agreement about the best target, with some users favoring the top of Orders of magnitude (mass) rather than a section of it, and Jay expressly objecting to targeting a section at that page. Arguably, considering the targets proposed by those favoring retargeting, there was more agreement for "Most massive" than the other two redirects for which you found consensus. Cheers, Mdewman6 (talk) 00:00, 12 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @Mdewman6: Hi! Agreed that there was universal consensus against the status quo. I closed it as no consensus because there didn't seem to be a preferred target of where it should point. I think your bold action is fine, I will update the close to be a "no consensus and redirect" decision.
 * For the object ones, there were 3 delete comments, and 5 retarget comments (noting that one was not supportive of the section and another was weak) - I didn't see any specific comments that made arguments that I felt were particularly strong or weak. Given the preference against the status quo, I thought there was a consensus for retargetting (not a very strong one of course).
 * Does that seem reasonable/make sense to you? Legoktm (talk) 01:04, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I still disagree there was consensus, and believe there was actually more consensus for which category to point "most massive" to than there was for where to point the other two redirects so don't quite follow your reasoning. 3 users in the delete camp, 5 users in the retarget camp, with 2 of them against targeting the section favored by the other 3, and 1 of whom seems fine with either retargeting or deletion but is simply strongly against the status quo, with reasonable arguments on both sides (I think mine were stronger, but I am very biased!) does not point me to any sort of consensus. I must conclude if there were consensus it was extremely weak consensus, and it was only the final 'weak delete' comment for "most massive" that caused you to make a distinction between the redirects regarding consensus or lack thereof. Given it's a minor distinction that won't change the practical outcome, I'm fine leaving it at that. Mdewman6 (talk) 19:50, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

User:BernsteinBot
Hello, Legoktm,

I didn't know until I looked at this bot's User page that you also oversaw this bot's activities so you are probably familiar with how it works. Is there a chance that we might see another bot (maybe BernsteinBot2.0 or LegoktmBot) taking over some of its responsibilities? I know a bot isn't created in a day, I'm just wondering if I can hope for a replacement eventually. Thanks for any clue you can provide! Liz Read! Talk! 01:34, 12 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @Liz: that's the plan. See Bots/Requests for approval/HaleBot. Legoktm (talk) 01:36, 12 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Yes, and I just saw your response at Bot requests which I should have checked first! Liz Read! Talk! 01:46, 12 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Yeah for HaleBot, Legoktm! You know, I got so used to BernsteinBot's reporting time that I didn't even check the database report until now. If you coud return the report being issued at the 01:02 UTC time, that would return things to the status quo.
 * Thank you so much for your swift work! I hope you find partners to help you with the bot monitoring part of all this. Liz Read! Talk! 01:56, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-42
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * The recently implemented feature of article thumbnails in Special:Search will be limited to Wikipedia projects only. Further details are in T320510.
 * A bug that caused problems in loading article thumbnails in Special:Search has been fixed. Further details are in T320406.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Octicons-tools.svg Lua module authors can use  to load data from JSON pages.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Lua module authors can enable  to add errors for some possible code problems. This replaces "Module:No globals" on most wikis.

Future changes
 * The Beta Feature for DiscussionTools will be updated at most wikis. The "" button will look different after this change.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. 

MediaWiki message delivery 21:44, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

You've got mail

 * @Rsjaffe: ✅ Legoktm (talk) 03:54, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

database-reports OAuth
Can I have a URL to authorize the application? I translated a report from python and I would like to test it. 0x Deadbeef →∞ 11:33, 22 October 2022 (UTC)


 * @0xDeadbeef: Hi! So you don't need a URL. Visit m:Special:OAuthConsumerRegistration/propose/oauth2, and make sure you tick the "This consumer is for use only by " (it's fine to do this on your main account). That should automatically approve your consumer and give you the token to use (and save it to ).
 * Then copy a replica.my.cnf from Toolforge (if you don't have an account yet you'll need to sign up) to your machine at  and add a   key (see docs). Then open a tunnel for mysql with.
 * Finally,  will kick off the specific report you are testing, but it'll just print the results instead of saving to the wiki. Legoktm (talk) 03:26, 23 October 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-43
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * There have been some minor visual fixes in Special:Search, regarding audio player alignment and image placeholder height. Further details are in T319230.
 * On Wikipedias, a new preference has been added to hide article thumbnails in Special:Search. Full details are in T320337.

Problems
 * Last week, three wikis had read-only access for 25 minutes. This was caused by a hardware problem.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * Octicons-sync.svg Some wikis will be in read-only for a few minutes because of a switch of their main database. It will be performed on at 07:00 UTC (targeted wikis) and on  at 7:00 UTC (targeted wikis).
 * Starting on Wednesday, a new set of Wikipedias will get "Add a link" . This is part of the progressive deployment of this tool to more Wikipedias. The communities can configure how this feature works locally.
 * Starting on Wednesday October 26, 2022, the list of mentors will be upgraded at wikis where Growth mentorship is available. The mentorship system will continue to work as it does now. The signup process will be replaced, and a new management option will be provided. Also, this change simplifies the creation of mentorship systems at Wikipedias.
 * Pages with titles that start with a lower-case letter according to Unicode 11 will be renamed or deleted. There is a list of affected pages at Unicode 11 case map migration . More information can be found at T292552.
 * The Vector 2022 skin will become the default across the smallest Wikipedias. Learn more.

Future changes
 * The Reply tool and New Topic tool will soon get a special characters menu.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2022-W43"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 21:21, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Possible replacement for Legobot writing WP:GAN
Hi -- I know you've stopped maintaining Legobot, at least as far as the GAN functionality is concerned. ChristieBot, a bot I originally started working on for other reasons has morphed into having the ability to write WP:GAN by iterating over the GA nominee transclusions. There's a discussion at WT:GAN about the use of ChristieBot to generate alternative sorted lists to WP:GAN, but I think it would make more sense now to have ChristieBot write the page itself, and take over that function from Legobot. Do you have any reason to think that's a bad idea? Or any other input? Legobot's GA functions have been enormous time-savers over the years, and I don't want to sound like I'm ungrateful or unaware how immensely useful the bot has been. But if you're really unable to maintain it, I think it would be good to have that function pass to another bot. I'm about to post some suggested RfC text in the WT:GAN discussion, so please comment there if you're interested. And am I right in thinking that it would be easy and harmless to stop Legobot from writing WP:GAN every 20 minutes? That is, removing that functionality wouldn't break anything else? Thanks -- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:12, 23 October 2022 (UTC)


 * This is great, thank you for taking it on! I've replied at the BRFA. Legoktm (talk) 20:37, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

WikiWednesday
How did the NYC group's WikiWednesday go? Did I miss anything interesting or relevant? Wish I could have been there! – ClockworkSoul 14:51, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 31 October 2022
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:43, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Tech News: 2022-44
<section begin="technews-2022-W44"/> Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * When using keyboard navigation on a Kartographer map, the focus will become more visible.
 * In, you can now hide the log entries for new user creations with the filter for "".

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from . It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from . It will be on all wikis from (calendar).
 * The maps dialog in VisualEditor now has some help texts.
 * It is now possible to select the language of a Kartographer map in VisualEditor via a dropdown menu.
 * It is now possible to add a caption to a Kartographer map in VisualEditor.
 * It is now possible to hide the frame of a Kartographer map in VisualEditor.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe. <section end="technews-2022-W44"/>

MediaWiki message delivery 21:13, 31 October 2022 (UTC)