User talk:Lemmiwinks2/Outline of the Bible

Chronology of the Flood
As our friend says up above, you're going to need some references to avoid accusations that your work is Original Research (equivalent to Original Sin on Wikipedia). Personally I can see scope for a lot of improvement to the Flood Chronology section. Here's some tables you might like to use - quote as references and avoid the charge of heresy!

The writers mentions a few other authors as well, notably Jaubert. Jaubert's work is rather old now and there have been further advances, but if you google Jaubert you should come up with some useful leads. I think you might find that Bradshaw's chronology and the first one differ in details - if they do, it just demonstrates that there's not total agreement on exactly what's going on in the story.
 * Chapter on Flood chronology from I Studied Inscriptions from Before the Flood (He didn't actually - it's a respectable academic work with a nice table in it you can use)
 * Robert Bradshaw is an Evangelical scholar.
 * [I don't know who wrote this, but he quotes the right people - it's a good summary of fairly recent scholarship o the question.


 * Also useful is this description/explanation of the various calendars. It's from Lester Grabbe, a respectable and well-known biblical scholar.

By the way, the Septuagint chronology for the Flood is different from the Masoretic chronology. You should at least make a note of this. You also need to be aware of the various calendars being used - the Jubilees calendar of 364 days, the Egyptian calendar of 360 days, and another couple (a total of 4 I think). It's not possible to say simply that there were so many months involved (there are 5 months according to the 150-day count, which is of 30 days per month, but it's only one of the calendars).PiCo (talk) 06:46, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I just put what I read in the bible. there is no attempt at interpretation. If you have more data then I will be glad to add it. Nowhere do I state that 5 months passed or that that is the only possibility and I have no idea why you would think I did. And a 364 day calendar is indeed only one possibility. I will try to make that clearer.  The idea is simply to present the reader with all relevant information and possibilities and let them make up their own mind about it. But it seems like you can never say anything without be accused of having some ulterior motive.  not just here but everywhere on the web. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 15:21, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Copyright problem
All text in an article must be capable of being traced back to the original editor. This is done through the history section. If you copy and paste from another article, you must put an ordinary wikilink into the edit summary, eg "this material is copied from Genesis ." Any material in this article copied from another article must be removed, I'm afraid, and you can then restore it with the appropriate link in the edit summary. Dougweller (talk) 08:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmm - sounds tough. Look, if you do have to do this, try this: Go to Chronology of the Bible and look back in the history to the point just before I started doing all my edits. It was a totally different article, full of tables. You can copy those tables, which are very pretty and probably accurate. You could also contact the person who made them - his name is Ewawater or something very like that, and he put a post on the Talk page there quite recently. I don't want all his work to go to waste either. PiCo (talk) 10:14, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


 * The only thing that was ever copied from any other webpage was the chart from Adam to Jacob which was taken from Genealogies of Genesis. As I already stated, it can already be and always could have been traced back to that webpage because I started that section with "from Genealogies of Genesis" when I first created it. I have since expanded it to "Taken from the Wikipedia article Genealogies of Genesis. If I have to recopy it then I will do so. But I resent the implication that I somehow plagiarized this. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 15:15, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * No one has said you plagiarized anything, what you did, and I fully accept it was in good faith, was still copyright violation. I've been asking what you can do to save time (and I thought there may have been more than there is), and using a dummy edit - Help:Dummy edit has been suggested -- I'm checking, but I think you'd edit the section involved with a dummy edit and put the sort of link in I've suggested above. It needs to be in the edit summary, which will always be visible, not in the article where it may someday be removed. Dougweller (talk) 17:11, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, here is what has been suggested: "You hit the edit button and in the edit summary identify the spot in the article that has been copied and say what spot from what article it was copied from. If it isn't clearly describable as a paragraph or section, you could remove the copied text with one edit and immediately restore it with another. Whatever the process, the only important thing is that it's clear." Follow the instructions for dummy edits if you are going to just do the first sentence. Dougweller (talk) 19:23, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Suggested edits: I believe these are correct considering the comments above, but it wouldn't hurt if someone verified them. The copied content isn't specified, but it's fairly obvious from the original revision, plus there is clarifying discussion here. The oldids aren't required, but I find them helpful. Flatscan (talk) 04:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Help:Dummy edit, August 19 copy from Genealogies of Genesis oldid=306075192 to Timeline of the Bible oldid=308810303

Fantastic idea
Funnily enough I was looking for a list of all the events in the bible that could be matched to known (externally verifiable) historical events, people - and perhaps places, but the timeline was most important.

So I came here by mistake, but I love the idea. Afterall, there are several authors who state quite unequivicably that the world started on 17 August 1979 (google it!). But seriously, I've always wondered how these dates were derived, and this wikipedia article seems a great way to get some kind of answer as to how why it was that particular date. And whilst many of the dates are clearly fanciful, it is a valuable resource because such a list will show the contextual evidence that shows the order of events.

So here are my suggestions:

79.79.255.151 (talk) 16:26, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) There should be a list of people/events
 * 2) Each fact should be supported by a reference to the verse(s) in the bible and the dating information Ludicrous verse 9:30 "Brian rule for forty days after which judith ...".
 * 3) In addition, many events/people will be related to the main chain of dating but not themselves part of the dating sequence. Only notable ones need to be included.
 * 4) Like all biblical research, there is bound to be alternative timelines for various sections. If possible all the major variations should be listed with commentaries as to why various authors prefer one over the other.


 * I think you are looking for Chronology of the Bible. This article only lists the biblical data itself (and thus avoids all the endless arguing that is plaquing 'chronology of the bible' and other similar articles).

Article is getting quite large
As of this moment this article is the 12th largest in the english Wikipedia. Special:LongPages. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 04:31, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

It has also shown up at freebooknotes.com though I cant seem to figure out where they have it indexed. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 04:36, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
 * It is now a place higher at no 12 (correction: 11): the present version of the article is a real improvement since last week.--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 07:31, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Changes to the article are not showing up in 'recent changes of pages linked to project bible'.
Changes to this talk page show up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?namespace=&target=Wikipedia:WikiProject+Bible&showlinkedto=1&tagfilter=&title=Special:RecentChangesLinked but changes to the article itself dont. why? Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 00:11, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

User customization to make viewing the charts much easier
The charts in the article are best viewed with the left hand pane eliminated (if you are using a skin that has one) and the main content area expanded to full screen. See User scripts installation instructions for how to install hidePane to your user javascript page. (No links are lost. They are just moved to the top). Navigation popups are also very convenient. Quick installation:Go to Special:Preferences and click "Gadgets", check the box to enable Popups, then click save. Follow the instructions on the page to bypass your browser's cache. If the navigation popups dont display enough text try adding the following to your user javascript page: popupPreviewFirstParOnly=false popupMaxPreviewSentences=10 popupMaxPreviewCharacters=3000 See Tools/Navigation_popups Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 19:22, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

primary and secondary purpose of the article
The main purpose of this article is to show WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS without trying to say whether the events did or did not really happen and without trying to say when in history the events really occurred. As for the question of which 'bible', I am inclined to stick with the Masoretic Text while occasionally pointing out where the Septuagint differs. I prefer to quote Young's Literal Translation because it's public domain and it's very close to the original text. But the article also has a secondary purpose of making it easy to find links to bible related articles which might otherwise be very difficult to find. Links to people can be especially difficult to find. For example, there might be ten different 'Josephs'. Also, some articles may be obsure and people would never even think to look for them. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 18:04, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

keeping track of changes to bible related articles
If you like to keep track of changes to bible related articles but dont want to add hundreds of links to your watchlist then try this instead: Changes_related_to_"Timeline of the Bible" Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 23:00, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Gospel Harmony (based on Matthew)
I have taken the liberty of creating the article Gospel Harmony (based on Matthew) with the intention of splitting that section off to make the article shorter. If it doesn't get deleted or hacked to shreds then I will delete the section 'gospels' from 'timeline of the bible'. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 22:56, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Misc
Dibri the Danite - (Shelomith) - unnamed man stoned of blasphemy Num 1: 4 One man from each tribe, each the head of his family, is to help you. 5 These are the names of the men who are to assist you: from Reuben, Elizur son of Shedeur; 6 from Simeon, Shelumiel son of Zurishaddai; 7 from Judah, Nahshon son of Amminadab; 8 from Issachar, Nethanel son of Zuar; 9 from Zebulun, Eliab son of Helon; 10 from the sons of Joseph: from Ephraim, Elishama son of Ammihud; from Manasseh, Gamaliel son of Pedahzur; 11 from Benjamin, Abidan son of Gideoni; 12 from Dan, Ahiezer son of Ammishaddai; 13 from Asher, Pagiel son of Ocran; 14 from Gad, Eliasaph son of Deuel; (or Reuel) 15 from Naphtali, Ahira son of Enan." Num 3: 24 The leader of the families of the Gershonites was Eliasaph son of Lael. 30 The leader of the families of the Kohathite clans was Elizaphan son of Uzziel. 35 The leader of the families of the Merarite clans was Zuriel son of Abihail; Numbers 10:29 And Moses saith to Hobab son of Raguel the Midianite, father-in-law of Moses, Num 13:  from the tribe of Reuben, Shammua son of Zaccur; 5 from the tribe of Simeon, Shaphat son of Hori; 6 from the tribe of Judah, Caleb son of Jephunneh (the Kenezite. Num 32:12); 7 from the tribe of Issachar, Igal son of Joseph; 8 from the tribe of Ephraim, Hoshea son of Nun; 9 from the tribe of Benjamin, Palti son of Raphu; 10 from the tribe of Zebulun, Gaddiel son of Sodi; 11 from the tribe of Manasseh (a tribe of Joseph), Gaddi son of Susi; 12 from the tribe of Dan, Ammiel son of Gemalli; 13 from the tribe of Asher, Sethur son of Michael; 14 from the tribe of Naphtali, Nahbi son of Vophsi; 15 from the tribe of Gad, Geuel son of Maki. 16 These are the names of the men Moses sent to explore the land. (Moses gave Hoshea son of Nun the name Joshua.) Numbers 22 2And Balak son of Zippor 5and he sendeth messengers unto Balaam son of Beor, Numbers 25:14 And the name of the man of Israel who is smitten, who hath been smitten with the Midianitess, [is] Zimri son of Salu, prince of the house of a father of the Simeonite; Num 34: 18 And appoint one leader from each tribe to help assign the land. 19 These are their names: Caleb son of Jephunneh, from the tribe of Judah; 20 Shemuel son of Ammihud, from the tribe of Simeon; 21 Elidad son of Kislon, from the tribe of Benjamin; 22 Bukki son of Jogli, the leader from the tribe of Dan; 23 Hanniel son of Ephod, the leader from the tribe of Manasseh son of Joseph; 24 Kemuel son of Shiphtan, the leader from the tribe of Ephraim son of Joseph; 25 Elizaphan son of Parnach, the leader from the tribe of Zebulun; 26 Paltiel son of Azzan, the leader from the tribe of Issachar; 27 Ahihud son of Shelomi, the leader from the tribe of Asher; 28 Pedahel son of Ammihud, the leader from the tribe of Naphtali." Joshua 15:6 and the border hath gone up [to] Beth-Hoglah, and passed over on the north of Beth-Arabah, and the border hath gone up [to] the stone of Bohan son of Reuben: Judges 3: 15And the sons of Israel cry unto Jehovah, and Jehovah raiseth to them a saviour, Ehud son of Gera, a Benjamite 31And after him hath been Shamgar son of Anath, Judges 4:6 And she sendeth and calleth for Barak son of Abinoam Judges 8:13 And Gideon son of Joash Judges 9: and Abimelech son of Jerubbaal and Jotham, youngest son of Jerubbaal, is left, Judges 9:26 And Gaal son of Ebed cometh Judges 10:1 And there riseth after Abimelech, to save Israel, Tola son of Puah, son of Dodo, a man of Issachar, Judges 11:1 and Gilead begetteth Jephthah, Judges 12:13 And after him, Abdon son of Hillel, the Pirathonite, 1 Samuel 14:50 and the name of the wife of Saul [is] Ahinoam, daughter of Ahimaaz; and the name of the head of his host [is] Abner son of Ner (son of Ahiel), uncle of Saul 1 Samuel 25:44 and Saul gave Michal his daughter, wife to David, to Phalti son of Laish, who [is] of Gallim. 1 Samuel 26:6 And David answereth and saith unto Ahimelech the Hittite, and unto Abishai son of Zeruiah, brother of Joab, 1 Samuel 27:2 unto Achish son of Maoch king of Gath; 2 Samuel 8:3 And David smiteth Hadadezer son of Rehob, king of Zobah, 2 Samuel 8:16 and Joab son of Zeruiah [is] over the host, and Jehoshaphat son of Ahilud [is] remembrancer, 2 Samuel 8:18 and Benaiah son of Jehoiada 2 Samuel 9:5 And king David sendeth, and taketh him out of the house of Machir son of Ammiel, of Lo-Debar, 2 Samuel 10:2 and David saith, `I do kindness with Hanun son of Nahash, 2 Samuel 13:3 And Amnon hath a friend, and his name [is] Jonadab, son of Shimeah, David's brother, and Jonadab [is] a very wise man, 2 Samuel 13:37 And Absalom hath fled, and goeth unto Talmai, son of Ammihud, king of Geshur, 2 Samuel 14:1 And Joab son of Zeruial 2 Samuel 15:27 And the king saith unto Zadok the priest, `Art thou a seer? turn back to the city in peace, and Ahimaaz thy son, and Jonathan son of Abiathar, your two sons with you; 2 Samuel 16:5 And king David hath come in unto Bahurim, and lo, thence a man is coming out, of the family of the house of Saul, and his name [is] Shimei, son of Gera, 2 Samuel 16:9 And Abishai son of Zeruiah (brother of Joab,) 2 Samuel 17:27 And it cometh to pass at the coming in of David to Mahanaim, that Shobi, son of Nahash, from Rabbah of the Bene-Ammon, and Machir son of Ammiel, from Lo-Debar, and Barzillai the Gileadite, from Rogelim 2 Samuel 19:16 and Shimei son of Gera, the Benjamite, who [is] from Bahurim, 2 Samuel 20:1 And there hath been called there a man of worthlessness, and his name [is] Sheba, son of Bichri, a Benjamite, 2 Samuel 20:23 And Joab [is] over all the host of Israel, and Benaiah son of Jehoiada [is] over the Cherethite, and over the Pelethite, and Adoram [is] over the tribute, and Jehoshaphat son of Ahilud [is] the remembrancer, 2 Samuel 21:8 and the king taketh the two sons of Rizpah daughter of Aiah, whom she bore to Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth, and the five sons of Michal daughter of Saul whom she bare to Adriel son of Barzillai the Meholathite, 2 Samuel 21:19 And the battle is again in Gob with the Philistines, and Elhanan son of Jaare-Oregim, the Beth-Lehemite, smiteth [a brother of] Goliath 2 Samuel 21:21 and he reproacheth Israel, and smite him doth Jonathan son of Shimeah, brother of David; 2 Samuel 23: Davids mighty men: Adino the Eznite (or Josheb-Basshebeth which some suggest is Ish-Bosheth) And after him [is] Eleazar son of Dodo, son of Ahohi And after him [is] Shammah son of Agee the Hararite And Abishai brother of Joab, son of Zeruiah, he [is] head of three, (even though he is not among them) And Benaiah son of Jehoiada (son of a man of valour, great in deeds from Kabzeel). in charge of the bodyguard

the thirty: 24Asahel the brother of Joab was one of the thirty; Elhanan the son of Dodo of Bethlehem, 25Shammah the Harodite, Elika the Harodite, 26Helez the Paltite, Ira the son of Ikkesh the Tekoite, 27Abiezer the Anethothite, Mebunnai the Hushathite, 28Zalmon the Ahohite, Maharai the Netophathite, 29Heleb the son of Baanah, a Netophathite, Ittai the son of Ribai out of Gibeah of the children of Benjamin, 30Benaiah the Pirathonite, Hiddai of the brooks of Gaash, 31Abialbon the Arbathite, Azmaveth the Barhumite, 32Eliahba the Shaalbonite, of the sons of Jashen, Jonathan, 33Shammah the Hararite, Ahiam the son of Sharar the Hararite, 34Eliphelet the son of Ahasbai, the son of the Maachathite, Eliam the son of Ahithophel the Gilonite, 35Hezrai the Carmelite, Paarai the Arbite, 36Igal the son of Nathan of Zobah, Bani the Gadite, 37Zelek the Ammonite, Nahari the Beerothite, armourbearer to Joab the son of Zeruiah, 38Ira an Ithrite, Gareb an Ithrite, 39Uriah the Hittite: thirty and seven in all.

1 Kings 1:5 And Adonijah son of Haggith 1 Kings 1:8 and Zadok the priest, and Benaiah son of Jehoiada, and Nathan the prophet, and Shimei, and Rei, 1 Kings 1:11 And Nathan speaketh unto Bath-Sheba, mother of Solomon, saying, `Hast thou not heard that Adonijah son of Haggith hath reigned, 1 Kings 2:5 `And also, thou hast known that which he did to me -- Joab son of Zeruiah -- that which he did to two heads of the hosts of Israel, to Abner son of Ner, and to Amasa son of Jether -- 1 Kings 2:32 and Jehovah hath turned back his blood on his own head, who hath fallen on two men more righteous and better than he, and slayeth them with the sword, -- and my father David knew not -- Abner son of Ner, head of the host of Israel, and Amasa son of Jether, head of the host of Judah; 1 Kings 2:39 And it cometh to pass, at the end of three years, that flee do two of the servants of Shimei unto Achish son of Maachah, king of Gath, 1 kings 4: 2And these were the princes which he had; Azariah the son of Zadok the priest, 3Elihoreph and Ahiah, the sons of Shisha, scribes; Jehoshaphat the son of Ahilud, the recorder. 4And Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the host: and Zadok and Abiathar were the priests: 5And Azariah the son of Nathan was over the officers: and Zabud the son of Nathan was principal officer, and the king's friend: 6And Ahishar was over the household: and Adoniram the son of Abda was over the tribute. 7And Solomon had twelve officers over all Israel, which provided victuals for the king and his household: each man his month in a year made provision. 8And these are their names: The son of Hur, in mount Ephraim: 9The son of Dekar, in Makaz, and in Shaalbim, and Bethshemesh, and Elonbethhanan: 10The son of Hesed, in Aruboth; to him pertained Sochoh, and all the land of Hepher: 11The son of Abinadab, in all the region of Dor; which had Taphath the daughter of Solomon to wife: 12Baana the son of Ahilud; to him pertained Taanach and Megiddo, and all Bethshean, which is by Zartanah beneath Jezreel, from Bethshean to Abelmeholah, even unto the place that is beyond Jokneam: 13The son of Geber, in Ramothgilead; to him pertained the towns of Jair the son of Manasseh, which are in Gilead; to him also pertained the region of Argob, which is in Bashan, threescore great cities with walls and brasen bars: 14Ahinadab the son of Iddo had Mahanaim: 15Ahimaaz was in Naphtali; he also took Basmath the daughter of Solomon to wife: 16Baanah the son of Hushai was in Asher and in Aloth: 17Jehoshaphat the son of Paruah, in Issachar: 18Shimei the son of Elah, in Benjamin: 19Geber the son of Uri was in the country of Gilead, in the country of Sihon king of the Amorites, and of Og king of Bashan; and he was the only officer which was in the land. 1 Kings 11:23 And God raiseth to him an adversary, Rezon son of Eliadah, 1 Kings 11:26 And Jeroboam son of Nebat, an Ephrathite of Zereda 1 Kings 14:1 At that time was Abijah son of Jeroboam sick

move to 'Outline of the Bible'
Maybe the article should be moved to 'Outline of the Bible'. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 02:28, 17 January 2010 (UTC)