User talk:LeonRaper

--LeonRaper 21:22, 30 May 2016 (UTC)== Welcome! ==

Please put me in contact with someone who can help me create a Wikipedia page. I have tried many times to do it myself, but get nowhere.

My current Wikipedia web page layout is at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:LeonRaper/About_you

I need suggestions how to bring the web page up to full Wikipedia compliance.

Thanks,

Hubert Leon Raper

Speedy deletion nomination of User:LeonRaper/About you


A tag has been placed on your user page, User:LeonRaper/About you, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be blatant advertising which only promotes or publicises a company, product, group or service, and which is a violation of our policies regarding acceptable use of user pages; user pages are intended for active editors of Wikipedia to communicate with one another as part of the process of creating encyclopedic content, and should not be mistaken for free webhosting resources. Please read the guidelines on spam, the guidelines on user pages, and, especially, our FAQ for Organizations.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. DES (talk) 14:52, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

April 2016
Please do not write or add to an article about yourself. Creating an autobiography is strongly discouraged – see our guideline on writing autobiographies. If you create such an article, it may be deleted. If what you have done in life is genuinely notable and can be verified according to our policy for articles about living people, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later (see Wikipedians with articles). If you wish to add to an existing article about yourself, please propose the changes on its talk page. Please understand that this is an encyclopedia and not a personal web space or social networking site. If your article has already been deleted, please see: Why was my page deleted?, and if you feel the deletion was an error, please discuss it with the deleting administrator. Thank you. Theroadislong (talk) 16:58, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

Your email
Hi, I am responding here, because the nature of your question is not really confidential. In fact, I see from the notices on this talk page that your question has already been answered at the Teahouse. In order for an article to be acceptable here, it needs to be notable (in the WP sense, this has nothing to do with good/bad/meritorious/etc), which should be verifiable by references to independent reliable sources. Your draft missed all that: there was not a single reference. In addition, it was completely unencyclopedic, being more of an autobiographic essay (headings such as "Dancing Became My Life" or "Dance - Enjoy the Journey" are not encyclopedic at all). I have put an extended "welcome" template at the top of this page. Please familiarize yourself with the guidelines and policies listed, that will make your life here much easier. Creating articles is one of the hardest things to do on WP and it becomes exponentially harder if the article in question is an autobiography, because only very, very few people are able to write about themselves in a neutral and encyclopedic manner. Hope this helps. --Randykitty (talk) 14:31, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In response to your latest email: paid editing is not forbidden, but generally frowned upon. Please see WP:COI and Paid-contribution disclosure. I don't know anybody who edits for pay, so I really cannot recommend anyone. --Randykitty (talk) 08:22, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Ditto for your email to me- I only respond to emails with an email if it's confidential, which your email wasn't. And as mentioned in multiple places to you already (including the Teahouse seemingly twice), Wikipedia is not a place for autobiographies, as in general people cannot write neutrally about themselves. Joseph2302 (talk) 14:52, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia Article Approval
Hi,

I have been waiting for quite some time trying to get Wikipedia to accept my new Wikipedia page submission at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:LeonRaper/About_you

I have been in contact with David E. Siegel and several others, but still no final response. If there is any approval problem then please have one of your people who do work on dancing articles contact me. I think someone is trying to keep me from being accepted and I'll tell you who it is if you ask.
 * Hello Leon! Your draft has yet to be looked at as it hasn't been put up for review. We have a process called Articles for Creation (AfC for short) for this purpose. However, I would ask you to ensure that your draft sufficiently backs up the subject's notability with multiple reliable, independent sources and that it meets the general notability guidelines. Remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not an indiscriminate collection of information. Hopefully this makes sense. If you have questions, feel free to ask them here. (P.S.: Please do not add your personal information, such as address or telephone, to Wikipedia, as it can be read by virtually anyone and is a privacy risk.) — foxj 16:23, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of User:LeonRaper/About you


A tag has been placed on User:LeonRaper/About you requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section U5 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to consist of writings, information, discussions, and/or activities not closely related to Wikipedia's goals. Please note that Wikipedia is not a free Web hosting service. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such pages may be deleted at any time.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Joseph2302 (talk) 09:37, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Your request
Wikipedia has rules about what type of external links can be used and where they go. These are in the guidelines for external links. In general external links are not acceptable on your user page. It is OK to put some information about yourself on your user page but it is not the place for promotion or resume like information. Please see User pages, WP:NOTSOCIALNETWORK and WP:FAKEARTICLE for our rules. If I can be of more help please feel free to contact me on my talk page or ping me by placing  on any talk page and signing the edit with. J bh Talk  14:14, 4 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If you intend for this to be a Wikipedia article please read "My First Article". Please pay particular attention to the requirements for significant coverage in sources in the General notability guidelines. J bh  Talk  14:49, 4 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'll try to expand on what said. We do not want you to go away. I actually believe you could be a valuable contributor to the dance topic area, but first you must understand that we have long-standing, community-developed standards and policies regarding pages like the one you're trying to make.


 * Let's say, in a hypothetical, that I believe I am actually a better and more accomplished swing dance instructor than you are, and that I was actually the first to do the things you're claiming. Who should be believed? Hmm? I don't know you and you don't know me, and neither does anyone reading Wikipedia. Do you have newspaper or magazine articles or other reliable sources about you to back up your claims? Without those third-party, verifiable references, it's you said vs. Katie said. It's not enough to say you published stuff about yourself. You could have made it all up. I'm not saying you did, and I'm sure you're quite accomplished, but other reliable sources have to have published material about you.


 * If you can provide multiple references that meet our criteria at WP:RS, we can talk about the next step, which is meeting our notability standard for biographies. If you can't, there's no point in continuing any discussion. I'm sorry if that offends you, but we're not here to make friends or satisfy your vanity. We're here to build an encyclopedia. Katietalk 16:25, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Draft:Leon Raper
Hi Leon Raper. I just want to let you know that I have added Template:Draft article to Draft:Leon Raper. I did this just to make it a bit clearer that your draft is a "work in progress" and not yet an article. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that can be edited pretty much by anyone anywhere in the world at anytime with the only real requirement being access to the Internet. Articles are improved gradually over time through collaboration and we as editors do not own the articles we create or edit. Edits on judged according to their compliance with Wikipedia's various policies and guidelines, Wikipedia's manual of style and whether a consensus has been established. We as editors also do not own our drafts, but we are given a little more freedom when it comes to editing/improving them since they are not yet in the article namespace. Most experienced editors refrain from directly editing them unless we specifically request that they do so or there is a seriously policy violation (such as a copyright violation or a violation of Wikipedia's policy on biographies of living persons, etc.) which requires immediate attention.

My suggestion to you is to continue to work on your draft until you feel it is ready for article status and then submit it via Wikipedia:Articles for creation (AfC). This will give experienced AfC reviewers that chance to assess the draft and suggest ways of improving it as needed. The AfC process is not designed to create perfect articles since no Wikipedia article is ever perfect; it is designed to check whether the subject matter meets Wikipedia's notability guidelines and thus warrants inclusion in the encyclopedia. Please try and understand that there are over 5,000,0000 articles currently on Wikipedia and unfortunately many of these should never have been added in the first place. Many of these end up being quickly deleted, but others may fly under the radar for years before being noticed. AfC is no guarantee that anything you submit will be added or retained, but does perhaps improve the odds a little bit. Do not get discouraged if your draft is rejected, but instead try to make the improvements suggested by the AfC reviewers or ask for assistance at places like the Teahouse or Wikipedia:Requested articles.

Finally, as has been pointed out to you by others, writing autobiographies is something not really encouraged by Wikipedia. It's not expressly prohibited, but it's something really discouraged because of the obvious conflict of interest (COI). Therefore, I suggest you take a look at Wikipedia:Plain and simple conflict of interest guide just to familiarize yourself with is expected of COI editors. Lots of people seem to think that having an article written about them on Wikipedia is only a good thing, but there can be a downside to it as well per Wikipedia's law of unintended consequences. Remember anything added to the article namespace is free game for anyone to edit and that the subjects of articles or their creators are not given any final editorial control over what is added/removed. This means that articles, etc. often end up as something completely different from what their creator originally intended or include information that the subject of the article might not want known. Good luck with your draft. -- Marchjuly (talk) 23:12, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Leon Raper


A tag has been placed on Leon Raper, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G11 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page seems to be unambiguous advertising which only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become encyclopedic. Please read the guidelines on spam and FAQ/Organizations for more information.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. CAPTAIN RAJU ( ✉ ) 11:27, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Dear Theroadislong, Why did you add the following link to References, ^ California Swing Dance Hall of Fame: California Swing Dance Hall of Fame, accessdate: May 6, 2016? I was told by others at Wikipedia to not include any links to outside sources. So, I removed all the links from everything that I original page submission. I am removing that link. Hubert Leon Raper 13:53, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I added a reliable source as Wikipedia requires, if you remove it you are on your own, you are clearly not reading and understanding the help you are being given! Theroadislong (talk) 13:56, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Please slow down
I don't know how to tell you how to get an article about you published if you are not willing to read the pages given and learn. Unless you learn how to make the page acceptable, you will need to wait until a volunteer takes the time to fix the draft. Also do not put your phone number inn pages in Wikipedia anymore. No one is going to call you. -- GB fan 11:55, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for pursuing trying to get my article published. None of the people at Wikipedia will understand my problems until you all reach the age of 80 - which I guess will not be in my lifetime. I think you are all wonderful people, but just telling people to read a Wikipedia page doesn't solve my problem. I really appreciate your help. Thanks Hubert Leon Raper 12:24, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * There is no problem with you trying trying to get an article about yourself published, you are just going about it the wrong way. You either need to learn how to do it yourself or wait until another editor fixes the article to our standards. -- GB fan 12:43, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You need to establish your notability by adding references to independent sources that show there is widespread coverage of you in reliable sources. I have searched but can find very little coverage that isn’t from your own websites. The old magazine articles you list may be of help but I don’t have access them. I have added a reference to your 2010 California Swing Dance Hall of Fame (Golden Star Award) which is a very small start. You do yourself no favours either by reverting my edits on your draft. Theroadislong (talk) 13:27, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

I have documentation on every thing I put in my references, except for the "Queen Of The Stardust Ballroom" movie. However, I can even provide references to other people who were also in that movie. I have boxes full of documentation on everything else going back to the 1960's, including copies & pictures of everything. What else do you want? Hubert Leon Raper 13:37, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think you are reading any of the advice you have been given, Wikipedia articles are based on reliable, published sources I don't know what "documentation" you have but it needs to have appeared in a newspaper, book or magazine article then we can start building an article about you. Theroadislong (talk) 13:49, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

I am sorry Theroadislong, You obviously didn't look at each of my references. They all are from published media, and I have copies of all that documentation. Hubert Leon Raper 14:00, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You need to add an inline citation for each assertion in the article though, I have no way of knowing which fact is supported by any of the given references. and being the proof reader of a book for example is NOT a suitable reference for anything as far as I can see?Theroadislong (talk) 14:28, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Theroadislong, I was told in several prior contact with others at Wikipedia that I was not to include any external links. I already had them in my page, but I then took them out. Now, regarding proof of my Reference documents, all entries here include the name of the document publisher, such as: Bug-Bitten Boogies Bounce To Jammin; Slammin' Beat, "Orange County Register, October 27, 1974" (Article & Pictures). What now Coach? Hubert Leon Raper 14:39, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes that is correct, you should have NO inline external links in the article, but what I added were in line references which ARE very much required if you want to have any chance at all of the article being accepted. As I have said before I have no way of knowing which magazine articles support any of the content so I can't help with that. Theroadislong (talk) 14:42, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

I am so sorry if I respond incorrectly, I don't mean too. It is difficult dealing with so many different people at Wikipedia, some with different opinions than others. I am trying my best to complete this project. Leon Raper

Hi Theroadislong & Joseph2302. I am leaving your updates on my web page. Thanks for all your help, Hubert Leon Raper 15:03, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Reply to your Articles for Creation Help Desk question about Draft:Leon Raper
Hello, LeonRaper! I'm Marchjuly. I have replied to your question about Draft:Leon Raper at the WikiProject Articles for Creation Help Desk. Marchjuly (talk) 22:01, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Marchjuly,

I have been contacted by 27 different people at Wikipedia telling me what to do. And, either I obey every issue or I will be removed from Wikipedia. I would like to refer you to a few issues.

Autobiography: Many have told me my page is an autobiography. I have asked many times for all of them to tell me one word in my page that indicates it is an autobiography. None will tell me. What I have been told is that I must get someone else to write it for me. Wikipedia says I can't pay someone to do that. In addition to writing massive web sites related to dance, I have written hundreds of pages from my 21 years of work in engineering. No one in engineering questioned my writing abilities. I wrote instructions for computer manufacturers, U.S. Patent office, and many others.

Notability: Many have said references do not adequately show the subject's notability. There was much notability presented in my original submission to Wikipedia. However, the volunteers stayed on my back until I removed most of it. In fact I just added another notability issue and was chastised by someone from Wikipedia for doing so.

Citations: There were two citations entered into References by someone from Wikipedia. I removed the first citation because it was a marketing tool for another web site. When linked to the site the first thing you see is an advertisement selling a product. Then it switched me to someone's Facebook page. Then after some time it finally sent me to the World Swing Dance Hall of Fame video of me being presented an award. I removed the second citation because it was a non understandable entry. I couldn't get Wikipedia personnel to listen to me on these two issues.

References: I have documentation on all my references, but others at Wikipedia keep telling me I need Citations. I don't know where you would find citations that refer to a bunch of old documents in boxes in my garage. I'm sure there are many other pages in Wikipedia in which there are not enough citations.

Wikipedia Negativity: Very early on I started receiving negative responses from Wikipedia. Most got angry with me if I disagreed with them. Very early on I was tagged the "Bad Guy." It seems as though everybody wanted to fight with me. I could not talk verbally to anyone. Mostly I was referred to Wikipedia pages. How would you respond if you couldn't verbally communicate with others on important issues?

I wish I could have done better trying to work with Wikipedia. My information would have been a valuable source of information for the swing dance community.

Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 14:51, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Leon Raper (May 7)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Onel5969 was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Leon Raper and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Leon_Raper Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Onel5969&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Leon_Raper reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

 Onel 5969  TT me 14:42, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Leon Raper (May 7)
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Samtar was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Leon Raper and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Leon_Raper Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Samtar&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Leon_Raper reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

-- samtar talk or stalk 20:12, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Leon Raper


A tag has been placed on Leon Raper requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator. Wgolf (talk) 03:24, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

May 2016
Please do not write or add to an article about yourself, as you apparently did at Leon Raper. Creating an autobiography is strongly discouraged – see our guideline on writing autobiographies. If you create such an article, it may be deleted. If what you have done in life is genuinely notable and can be verified according to our policy for articles about living people, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later (see Wikipedians with articles). If you wish to add to an existing article about yourself, please propose the changes on its talk page. Please understand that this is an encyclopedia and not a personal web space or social networking site. If your article has already been deleted, please see: Why was my page deleted?, and if you feel the deletion was an error, please discuss it with the deleting administrator. Thank you. Wgolf (talk) 03:41, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Please tell me what makes you think anything on my page is autobiographical. You are wrong. Nothing on my page says who wrote it. Nothing on my page is autobiographical. Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 03:59, 9 May 2016 (UTC)


 * "Autobiographical" means that you wrote it. It doesn't mean that it is credited to you in-text. VQuakr (talk) 06:55, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Wgolf,

I have been contacted by 27 different people at Wikipedia telling me what to do. And, either I obey every issue or I will be removed from Wikipedia. I would like to refer you to a few issues.

Autobiography: Many have told me my page is an autobiography. I have asked many times for all of them to tell me one word in my page that indicates it is an autobiography. None will tell me. What I have been told is that I must get someone else to write it for me. Wikipedia says I can't pay someone to do that. In addition to writing massive web sites related to dance, I have written hundreds of pages from my 21 years of work in engineering. No one in engineering questioned my writing abilities. I wrote instructions for computer manufacturers, U.S. Patent office, and many others.

Notability: Many have said references do not adequately show the subject's notability. There was much notability presented in my original submission to Wikipedia. However, the volunteers stayed on my back until I removed most of it. In fact I just added another notability issue and was chastised by someone from Wikipedia for doing so.

Citations: There were two citations entered into References by someone from Wikipedia. I removed the first citation because it was a marketing tool for another web site. When linked to the site the first thing you see is an advertisement selling a product. Then it switched me to someone's Facebook page. Then after some time it finally sent me to the World Swing Dance Hall of Fame video of me being presented an award. I removed the second citation because it was a non understandable entry. I couldn't get Wikipedia personnel to listen to me on these two issues.

References: I have documentation on all my references, but others at Wikipedia keep telling me I need Citations. I don't know where you would find citations that refer to a bunch of old documents in boxes in my garage. I'm sure there are many other pages in Wikipedia in which there are not enough citations.

Wikipedia Negativity: Very early on I started receiving negative responses from Wikipedia. Most got angry with me if I disagreed with them. Very early on I was tagged the "Bad Guy." It seems as though everybody wanted to fight with me. I could not talk verbally to anyone. Mostly I was referred to Wikipedia pages. How would you respond if you couldn't verbally communicate with others on important issues?

I wish I could have done better trying to work with Wikipedia. My information would have been a valuable source of information for the swing dance community.

Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 14:45, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Removal of references
I have tired to help you create an article with the correct reliable third party sources at Draft:Leon Raper you have now removed the only correct references in the article (to the awards) the article stands no chance of being published in it's present state and if you continue deleting the only good content I can't help you further. Theroadislong (talk) 07:31, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

My observations
You are driving everyone who might have wanted to help you away. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, when someone such as yourself says that don't understand how to do something others help. When that help is then rejected, people don't want to help. You say you don't understand how to do it yourself but it doesn't look like you want anyone else to fix the draft article either. Good luck trying to find people to help you. -- GB fan 10:46, 9 May 2016‎ (UTC)

Hi GB,

I have been contacted by 27 different people at Wikipedia telling me what to do. And, either I obey every issue or I will be removed from Wikipedia. I would like to refer you to a few issues.

Autobiography: Many have told me my page is an autobiography. I have asked many times for all of them to tell me one word in my page that indicates it is an autobiography. None will tell me. What I have been told is that I must get someone else to write it for me. Wikipedia says I can't pay someone to do that. In addition to writing massive web sites related to dance, I have written hundreds of pages from my 21 years of work in engineering. No one in engineering questioned my writing abilities. I wrote instructions for computer manufacturers, U.S. Patent office, and many others.

Notability: Many have said references do not adequately show the subject's notability. There was much notability presented in my original submission to Wikipedia. However, the volunteers stayed on my back until I removed most of it. In fact I just added another notability issue and was chastised by someone from Wikipedia for doing so.

Citations: There were two citations entered into References by someone from Wikipedia. I removed the first citation because it was a marketing tool for another web site. When linked to the site the first thing you see is an advertisement selling a product. Then it switched me to someone's Facebook page. Then after some time it finally sent me to the World Swing Dance Hall of Fame video of me being presented an award. I removed the second citation because it was a non understandable entry. I couldn't get Wikipedia personnel to listen to me on these two issues.

References: I have documentation on all my references, but others at Wikipedia keep telling me I need Citations. I don't know where you would find citations that refer to a bunch of old documents in boxes in my garage. I'm sure there are many other pages in Wikipedia in which there are not enough citations.

Wikipedia Negativity: Very early on I started receiving negative responses from Wikipedia. Most got angry with me if I disagreed with them. Very early on I was tagged the "Bad Guy." It seems as though everybody wanted to fight with me. I could not talk verbally to anyone. Mostly I was referred to Wikipedia pages. How would you respond if you couldn't verbally communicate with others on important issues?

I wish I could have done better trying to work with Wikipedia. My information would have been a valuable source of information for the swing dance community.

Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 14:33, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
 * An autobiography is a biography written by the subject. You have written a biography of yourself - this is by definition an autobiography. As to sources and references. Wikipedia requires independent reliable sources which contain significant coverage to demonstrate notability. The way this is usually interprated is there need to be three or so articles in the equivelent of regional newspapers or national circulation magazines which dedicate at least a couple of paragraphs about a person and that the coverage not be based on a single event. Lots of little things do not add up to significant coverage nor do association memberships, starting web sites or publishing your own works unless a third party has written about it in a reliable source. As to hiring someone to write your biography, it is not forbidden but the person you hire must disclose that they have been hired by you to write your article. This is required by Wikipedia's Terms of Use and more on those rules can be found in WP:PAID. I know all of this can be confusing and frustrating but many hundreds of people per week try to make an article about themself or someone they have been paid, and not disclosed they are paid, to create. So we have these rules to keep Wikipedia from being flooded and to insure minimum standards in our content. Please read the items I have linked in and feel free to ask me about anything you find unclear.  J bh  Talk  17:05, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Billions of people throughout the world wouldn't have a clue who wrote my article. Only Wikipedia people know who wrote it. Why do Wikipedia people keep pursuing this Autobiography issue? I ask many Wikipedia people to show me one word on my page that indicates I wrote it. Not one of you responded. Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 18:12, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Autobiography
 Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to the submission and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=User_talk:LeonRaper Articles for creation help desk] or on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LeonRaper&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:Afc_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=User_talk:LeonRaper reviewer's talk page].
 * You can also use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Hubert Leon Raper 21:45, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi,

We have been going round and round for over a month dealing with many different issues. We all have to stop this and deal with one issue at a time. The first issue I want to deal with is Autobiography. If this can't be solved then we might as well shut down my Wikipedia page. But first consider the following.

Yes, Wikipedia people know I wrote my page. However, I also asked all of them to tell me about any word on my page that indicates I wrote it. None of the reviewers came back with an answer.

If Wikipedia publishes my page there will be billions of people throughout the world who don't have a clue who wrote the page.

Please, all reviewers get on board so we can calm this down and deal with one issue at a time.

I would really appreciate your help.

Thanks,

Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 21:45, 9 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You are correct, if you can not understand that it does not matter whether the reader can tell you wrote it, it is still an autobiography and therefore all of the Wikipedia policies, guidelines and advice which apply to autobiography and conflict of interest apply there is really no way we can help you. So long as you are the author of your biography it is an autobiography - that is what the word means. If that is now clear, what is your next question?  J bh  Talk  00:23, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I am really sorry. I completely forgot that information about myself on my page was rewritten by Rhonda Robbins. I have mentioned her name quite a few times in my contacts with Wikipedia. I have never met her, but for some reason she contacted me back on April 26, 2016. She took my original information, rewrote it and sent it to me. Ronda's direct contact information is mylifeisgood48@yahoo.com Below is her final result in my References section. I already edited this information into my page.

References (Prepared by Others)

World Swing Dance Hall of Fame, 2015 (Special Recognition Award)US OPEN 2015 Hall of Fame Leon Raper 6 6MB California Swing Dance Hall of Fame, 2010 (Golden Stars Award) ... California Swing Dance Hall of Fame Le chant des Eve, La danse des Adam, by Stephanie Del Regno, 2012 ISBN 978-2-36696-002-0 ... West Coast Swing (Page 294 Article & Picture) Dance Corner, Visitors Feedback (1998-2002) ... http://www.dancecorner.com/feedback/index.html Queen of the Stardust Ballroom Movie (February 1975) ... Mr. Raper was a dancer in the movie ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_Stardust_Ballroom Bug-Bitten Boogies Bounce To Jammin; Slammin' Beat, Orange County Register, October 27, 1974 (Article & Pictures) Dance Terminology Notebook, by Skippy Blair, 1995 ISBN 0-932-980-11-2 ... Mr. Raper was a Proof Reader of this book - Dancer - Teacher Disco To Tango and Back, by Skippy Blair, 1978 ISBN 0-932-980-01-05 ... Jitterbug Club of America (Note Pg 189)

Resident Has Links to the Stars, Camp Verde Journal, October 2, 2002 ... (Article & Picture) Two Left Feet No Obstacle to Dancing the Night Away - With Proper Teaching, Verde Valley News, Arts & Entertainment Section, January 19, 2001 ... (Article & Picture) Cutting a Rug Ballroom Style, Camp Verde Journal, by Rachel Flegenheimer, November 1, 2000 ... (Article & Pictures) Let's Go Do the Hop, Verde Valley News, by Pamela Williams & Paula Blankenship, November 1998 ...(Article & Pictures) Swingin It, Lumberjack News, September 1998 ... (Article & picture) Lindy Hop Class, Camp Verde Journal, July 1998 ... (Article & Many Pictures) US Swing Dance Council, Swing Dance Journal, October 1992 (Article & Picture) Thousands of Spins Later, He's Still Swinging, Arizona Daily Sun, June 8, 1992 ... (Article & Picture) Thousands of Spins Later, He's Still Swinging,Arizona Daily Sun, June 6, 1992, (Article & Picture) Champion dancer two-steps way from Hollywood to NAU, Lumberjack News, April 8, 1992 ...DELETE THIS IS A DUPLICATE Champion Dancer Two-Steps His Way from Hollywood to NAU, Lumberjack News, April 8, 1992 ... (Article & Picture) Swing Around The Circuit, Jitterbug Magazine, September 1992 (Pg 23) ... (Article & Picture) Dance Instructor H. Leon Raper, Swing Dance Journal, October 1992 (Pg 5) ... (Article & Picture) YOU ARE MISSING SOMETHING HERE: Arizona Daily Sun, April 16, 1989 ... (Words & Picture) YOU ARE MISSING SOMETHING HERE: (Mr Raper is mentioned, related to dance, in many web sites & writings by others)

I just sent Rhonda an email to see if she would rewrite my entire Wikipedia page. If she says yes then I will accept what she writes.

As I said I mentioned her name in several contact with Wikipedia people. I hope she will help me. When I said I don't know her personally. I really meant it. You can contact her directly to verify that.

Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 02:10, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Next lets see if we have some sources which contain what Wikipedia calls significant coverage. Please list below which of the above source contain two or more paragraphs specifically about you and your acomplishments. This is to weed out what we refer to as passing mentions or brief quotations and to see if it is likely the article would pass our notability criteria.  J bh  Talk  02:28, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hubert Leon Raper 02:46, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Jbhunley,
 * You can contact Rhonda yourself if you want to. I'll wait until I hear from her before I do anything for myself.
 * I really appreciate your help,
 * Hubert Leon Raper
 * Contacting third parties off-wiki it not good practice so I will wait and see what comes up here. You should probably remove that person's email address as well for their privacy. It is best for all discussions of Wikipedia content to take place on talk pages so other editors can follow along or pick up where others have left off. I have noticed that you have not been indenting your discussions. Please take a bit of time to read User:Jbhunley/How to edit talk pages for a quick guide on how to indent so others have an easier time following a conversation. I have taken the liberty of properly indenting this section as an example. Also please remember to sign your posts by typing  at the end of your post. Cheers.  J bh [[User_talk:Jbhunley|Talk ]] 03:04, 10 May 2016 (UTC) Hubert Leon Raper 03:20, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Hubert Leon Raper 04:50, 10 May 2016 (UTC) Hi Jbhunley,

Sorry, I'm new at creating Wikipedia contact responses and web pages. I thought I entered  in just the 4 whatever symbols. I'm new so I need constant info. Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 03:20, 10 May 2016 (UTC) Hubert Leon Raper 04:50, 10 May 2016 (UTC) Hi, I'm sorry I just noticed your request to have me list below which of the above source contain two or more paragraphs specifically about you and your accomplishments. The following would be major information:

Bug-Bitten Boogies Bounce To Jammin; Slammin' Beat, Orange County Register, October 27, 1974 (Article & Pictures)

Queen of the Stardust Ballroom Movie (February 1975) ... Mr. Raper was a dancer in the movie ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_of_the_Stardust_Ballroom

Le chant des Eve, La danse des Adam, by Stephanie Del Regno, 2012 ISBN 978-2-36696-002-0 ... West Coast Swing (Page 294 Article & Picture)

Sorry, I didn't figure this out for you. I also didn't understand what you meant by indenting.

There are some YouTube videos that I will look into regarding Wikipedia editing.

Hubert Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 04:50, 10 May 2016 (UTC) Hubert Leon Raper 04:52, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Indentation
Hi Hubert Leon Raper. I noticed your question about indentation. There are examples of what indentation is Wikipedia:Indentation, so if you go to that page you should find the information you need. You can also find an explanation on how to properly indent your posts at Help:Using talk pages. I understand you sometimes find Wikipedia pages confusing, but I cannot really summarize things any better that what is done on those pages. Please look at the examples (it shouldn't take long) and then try practicing a bit in your user sandbox. Your user sandbox is like your own personal Wikipedia Etch A Sketch where you can practice editing and formatting and make as many mistakes as you like. You can access it by clicking the "Sandbox" link at the very top top right of this page between "Talk" and "Preferences". If after doing this you still are not sure how to indent your posts, then I will try a different approach. Good luck. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:00, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi,
 * Thank you Marchjuly. I'll try this out today.  I hope I can deal with it.
 * Hubert Leon Raper — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 20:19, 10 May 2016 (UTC+9)
 * Indentation sounds complicated, but it's really not. Basically all you do is add a colon at the beginning or each post and each new line break/paragraph. One colon is one indentation level, two colons is two indentation levels, three colons is three indentation levels, and so on and so on. Look at User:Jbhunley/How to edit talk pages because does a really good job of explaining indentation. You can also click on the edit window of this post to see how I am using indentation.
 * Finally and I don't mean any disrespect, but please stop copying and pasting "Hubert Leon Raper (Time), (Date) (UTC)" signatures into your posts. That's not the proper way to sign posts and there's no need to add any signature to the beginning of your posts. All you have to do is type whatever you want to post and at the very end add ~ . That will tell the software to automatically sign your post for you once you click "Save page" or "Preview page". If you're not sure how to type a tilde on your computer, then use the link right next to "Sign your posts on talk pages:" which is located above the "edit summary" field at the bottom of the editing window. Just click your mouse at the end of your post and then click on the blue ~ and they will automatically be added to the end of your post where your mouse's cursor is located. Practice a couple times in your sandbox when you're practicing indentation. -- Marchjuly (talk) 12:45, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Technical writing and talent agent
Hi Hubert Leon Raper. So far, the focus of the draft you are writing seems to be entirely based upon your accomplishments in the field of dance. You have, however, mentioned the following in previous talk page posts:
 * In addition to writing massive web sites related to dance, I have written hundreds of pages from my 21 years of work in engineering. No one in engineering questioned my writing abilities. I wrote instructions for computer manufacturers, U.S. Patent office, and many others. (see ); and
 * Guess what, my real business is Vegas88.com. For over 40 years I have been booking TV and film stars all over the U.S. and Canada into personal appearance events. I have been using Wikipedia for many years to find out how to contact these people.  Wikipedia lists their personal web site. links to imdb.com, and sometimes many other contact links.  I was also a Talent Agent in Beverly Hills for 10 years.  Dance is not my business.  I do it for enjoyment and to help other dancers find dance information. (see ).

For some reason, you have not included any of the above information in your draft. Wikipedia biographies are intended to be about an individual in his or her entirety and often include information from their early years through their professional and post professional careers, sometimes even including information about their personal lives. Is there some reason you have decided not to include this information in the draft? The reason I'm asking is that it may help establish your Wikipedia notability if you can show you have received significant coverage in reliable sources for your accomplishments in your other endeavors besides dance. It seems that dance is only one part of who your are, and all you really need to establish is that you have received significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources for any of your career/personal accomplishments. You might actually be doing yourself a disservice by focusing solely on your career in swing dancing if you've received significant coverage in reliable sources for the other things you have accomplished. -- Marchjuly (talk) 08:00, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi Marchjuly, I am now very confused. I thought I wasn't supposed to put any information into my page from which I could make money. I have done many things in my life from being a musician, engineer, talent agent, etc. In the early 1960's I even raced motorcycles.  I am also a Ham Radio operator W7TPQ. If I hit you with all that information I'm afraid you might jump out of a basement window.  The following are where you can find more information about me:
 * Vegas Celebrity Booking Service
 * My talent agent biography
 * My main web site
 * Raper's Ham Radio Corner
 * I haven't updated some of my personal web sites for quite some time.
 * I use to be a big political fighting dummy. All those domain names have been cancelled or are in the process of being cancelled.
 * I have had a minor brain stroke about 2 years ago and my memory isn't what use to be. That's why I am having trouble trying to finish up my Wikipedia preparation duties.
 * I really appreciate your help
 * Hubert Leon Raper — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 21:14, 10 May 2016 (UTC+9)
 * OK Hubert Leon Raper. It sounds like you're confusing promoting yourself with writing about yourself. Wikipedia articles are not for promoting anyone or anything. Wikipedia articles are not for advertising one's business or trying increase one's customer base. Wikipedia articles are only intended to reflect what reliable sources say about something in a neutral tone. So, a person can write about themself as long as they do so in a neutral tone. The problem with autobiographies, however, is that most people find it really hard to write about themselves in a neutral manner. They may try really hard to keep things neutral and really believe they are being neutral, but there's almost always a slightly promotional tone to what they write. This is why Wikipedia highly discourages people from writing about themselves or things that have a conflict-of-interest with. There's nothing wrong with including factual information about one's business endeavors as long as such information adheres to a neutral point of view and can be supported by citations to reliable sources.
 * This next part may be a little confusing, but I'll try to keep it as simple as I can. All of your personal websites are considered primary sources because they are closely connected to you or directly controlled by you. Primary sources can be used to support certain types of article content, but they need to be used with care. (See WP:PSTS for a little more info.) The problem with many primary sources is that they tend to include promotional language designed to attract a certain audience or customer, so they are not really neutral so to speak. They also are not really subject to any form of third-party indpendent editorial control, so it can be hard to know if what is written on them is really accurate. for example, Coca Cola can post a press release on it's corporate website that says it is the world's best cola, but that would only be Coca Cola talking about itself. The New York Times or Time magazine, however, could write an extensive article about the soft drink industry which comes to the conclusion that Coca Cola is indeed the world's best cola. Since it's fair to assume that the NYT or Time are independent of Coca Cola, have fact-checked everything and based their articles on neutral observations, Wikipedia considers their statements about Coca Cola to be more reliable that what Coca Cola says about itself. This is why Wikipedia notability cannot be established through primary sources. I can publish lots books and run lots websites about myself, but that would in the end just be me talking about myself. If, however, the Wall Street Journal, The Economist or some other reputable newspaper/periodical writes in-depth articles about me or my websites/business activities, then that would likely be considered sufficient to help show Wikipedia notability. That's what you need to show exists. Sources that are completely unconnected to you which are considered to be reliable (See WP:RS for more information) which discuss you and your accomplishments in a fair amount of detail. -- Marchjuly (talk) 13:25, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi, Thank you for indenting my stuff properly. I haven't read the Indention process yet, but will read it today.  I forgot to mention that two of my best accomplishments in engineering were as follows:
 * My design of the digital multiplexer in the computer in the Minuteman Missile. The nation's top military protection missile.
 * My design of the logarithmic digital to analog converter in the Allen Organ which was the world's first digital organ. The designs were later stolen by Japan.  See the book "Triumphs & Trials of an Organ Builder" by Jerome Markowitz, President of Allen Organ Company, ISBN 0-9624896-0-3.  My name is not mentioned in the book.
 * I have 5 patents for my work in engineering
 * Hubert Leon Raper 14:13, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 21:57, 10 May 2016 (UTC+9)
 * If your name is not mentioned, it can't be used as a source to support your notability. Theroadislong (talk) 13:04, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, I can't deal with all the negativity I have been receiving. I'm done. Cancel my request for a Wikipage.  I can't take any more.
 * Hubert Leon Raper 13:40, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 22:40, 10 May 2016 (UTC+9)
 * I'm searching really hard but sadly can't find any sources to back up these claims, sorry. Theroadislong (talk) 14:11, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I have tried Newspapers.com for the old articles but can not find anything nor does anything come up on a name search. He says he has copies of these articles so maybe he can provide scanned copies of the best 3 or 4 so notability can be verified and at least a basic article written based on that material. J bh  Talk  14:18, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I considered the possibility of a convenience link as well, but there still is the problem of verifying that the content has not be altered from it's original form. In addition, we still would need more specific information about the source (WP:CITEHOW) to properly cite it. What Jbhunley is suggesting is that you scan the articles, etc. that you feel help establish your Wikipedia notability and then upload them to one of your websites. As long as it can be verified that none of the content in these articles has been altered and that information about the source (e.g., name, date, etc.) can be clearly seen in the scan, then this may help other editors verify whether these sources provide the significant coverage needed for Wikipedia notability. Do you think this is something you can do? -- Marchjuly (talk) 14:34, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

I have 2 .pdf files containing Articles and Pictures (1) Orange County Register, Oct 1974 and (2) Jitterbug Magazine, Sept 1992. Just let me know how to get them to you. Leon Raper Hubert Leon Raper 15:18, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 00:18, 11 May 2016 (UTC+9)


 * Please look at: http://swingdance.com/Orange%20County%20Register%2010-27-1974.pdf
 * Please look at: http://www.swingdance.com/Jitterbug%20Magazine%209-1992.pdf
 * If either of these links don't work then copy the link and place it in a browser and you will see the file
 * Leon Raper
 * Hubert Leon Raper 18:23, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 03:03, 11 May 2016 (UTC+9)


 * The French Book, Le chant des Eve, La danse des Adam can be found at many sources at
 * https://www.google.com/search?q=le+chant+des+eve%2C+la+danse+des+adam&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
 * Hubert Leon Raper 19:28, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 04:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC+9)
 * Queen of the Stardust Ballroom Movie (February 1975) ... Mr. Raper was a dancer in the movie. Other dancers were Skippy Blair, Dean Collins, and many other top swing & ballroom dancers.  You can see them all very clearly in the movie.
 * Hubert Leon Raper 19:47, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 04:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC+9)


 * French Book, Le chant des Eve, La danse des Adam, Page 294 ... .pdf file
 * http://swingdance.com/French%20Book%202012.pdf
 * If this link does not work then copy the link and place it in a browser and you will see the file
 * This is a recurring problem in my References in my Wikipedia page. In these pages the links are not showing up.  The updating person is going to have to compensate for the missing link information.
 * Thanks,
 * Leon Raper
 * Hubert Leon Raper 20:29, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 05:29, 11 May 2016 (UTC+9)


 * The link takes me to a page that says "French Book 2012.pdf" but there is no pdf file there. Theroadislong (talk) 20:40, 10 May 2016 (UTC)


 * HiTheroadislong,
 * I'm trying to fix the problem. I contact you when I have it fixed
 * Thanks,
 * Leon Raper
 * Hubert Leon Raper 21:48, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 06:48, 11 May 2016 (UTC+9)


 * I'm lost. Can you tell me how to send you a .pdf file. Sending an email would be simple, but nothing in Wikipedia is simple.
 * Thanks,
 * Leon Raper
 * Hubert Leon Raper 22:25, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 07:25, 11 May 2016 (UTC+9)

Hubert Leon Raper 12:38, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Could someone send me an email where I can send the .pdf file for the book: Le chant des Eve, La danse des Adam. The .pdf file contains a copy of a page with a picture from the book.  Leon Raper

Hubert Leon Raper 12:38, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

I will help, if possible
I followed a thread from another talk page, and have seen that you need help. Specifically, you need someone to write a (your) biography. So, here's the thing- Wikipedia is one of the world's largest websites, and it pretty complex!! Now, writing an article is like writing a "term paper", like we did in junior high/high school. We have to show our sources and use footnotes (citations, in Wikipedia terms). I am willing to write a biography for Leon Raper, but in order to do so, I need to gather my sources and read about him. This is where "notability" comes in...I have to be able to find the information, because I have never heard of him, and don't know anything about him. Does this make sense? I need to look a few things, and will get back to you. Tribe of Tiger (talk) 22:08, 10 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I have two people trying to help me right now.
 * Thanks,
 * Leon Raper
 * Hubert Leon Raper 22:20, 10 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 07:21, 11 May 2016 (UTC+9)
 * has been slowly but steadily improving Draft:Leon Raper, so instead of two (or more) editors working on competing drafts, it might be best if the focus was the draft started. That will make it easier for everyone helping out, including Hubert Leon Raper himself to see what is going on and offer suggestions. As long as Hubert Leon Raper has no problem with others editing his draft, this should work fairly well. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:52, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Centralizing discussion about the draft
Various things have been posted on various user talk pages about Draft:Leon Raper, so maybe it's time to try and centralize and further discussions about the draft and how to improve it at Draft talk:Leon Raper. Keeping everything in one place will make it easier for everyone to follow what is going on and also make it easier for others to comment as well. Is this acceptable to everyone who has been trying to help so far? -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:00, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Good idea. J bh  Talk  07:25, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
 * More than happy for any help, the sources are not looking very promising so far! Theroadislong (talk) 07:47, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Please sign your posts
Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. When you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion (but never when editing articles), please be sure to sign your posts. There are two ways to do this. Either: This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is necessary to allow other editors to easily see who wrote what and when.
 * 1) Add four tildes  ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment; or
 * 2) With the cursor positioned at the end of your comment, click on the signature button (Insert-signature.png or Signature icon.png) located above the edit window.

Thank you. -- samtar talk or stalk 11:28, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Your email
Hi Hubert Leon Raper. I got your email and I appreciate the kinds words. Please understand, however, that I prefer to conduct all discussion related to Wikipedia via Wikipedia as much as possible unless there are specific personal privacy related matters which need to be address. So, I will not be replying to you via email. Again, while I appreciate the kind words, there was nothing you wrote in the email that you couldn't have simply posted on my user talk page. I tried to explain to you very early on that all editors are volunteers who value their privacy and that Wikipedia matters are usually best discussed on Wikipedia.

If an editor wants others to know his or her email address, then he or she will make that information available on their user page. If another editor wants to exchange off-wiki emails with another editor then he or she will either contact the other editor via email or ask that the other editor contact him or her via email. If you are having specific Wikipedia problems that you do not feel comfortable discussing on public talk pages, then you can email the Wikipedia:Volunteer Response Team ("OTRS") using one of the email addresses listed in Wikipedia:Contact OTRS and ask for assistance. You can also get assistance from experienced editors using Wikipedia's online chat room Wikipedia:IRC by following the instructions in Wikipedia:IRC/Tutorial. I have never used the IRC service myself, but I believe it does allow you to receive real time assistance and that there are always experienced editors who can try and answer your questions. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:32, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Please do not send me any more emails. If you want to discuss the draft, then please do so at Draft:Leon Raper so that other editors can participate in the discussion. That is the whole point of trying to keep everything centralized and working colaboratively with others. I tried to be polite in my above post, but I am not interested at all in discussing the draft with you privately via email. I hope you can understand and respect this because I have no intention of replying to you via email. If you would still like my help, then let's try and keep everything on Wikipedia where it belongs, OK? Otherwise, I wish you good luck with the draft and am going to move on to other things.

I've posted this before, but you seem only concerned about what Wikipedia and what others can do for you to get this draft moved into the article mainspace. You need to realize, however, that there is only so much that those of us working on it can do if you have not received the significant coverage that Wikipedia's notability guidelines require for a stand-alone article. I may understand how Wikipedia works better than you do, but I have no special say in deciding which drafts are approved. Wikipedia is a community of volunteers where everyone works together doing a little bit here and a little bit there in an attempt to try and gradually improve the overall quality of the encyclopedia. Sometimes this means declining drafts or deleting articles which are not up to Wikipedia's standards. This may not seem fair, but Wikipedia's policies and guidelines have been established over many years through a consensus of this community, which means that sometimes things don't always go as we may like. I am sorry if you feel this post is negative, but you need to try and understand that we are not here to write your article for you because there is really no "your article" when it comes to Wikipedia. Wikipedia articles are not written for people or things simply because those people or things happen to want (for whatever reason) a Wikipedia article; Wikipedia articles are written about people or things because those people or things have received the significant coverage in independent reliable sources that is required. This is a very important thing about Wikipedia and there's really very little room to maneuver when it comes to that. -- Marchjuly (talk) 15:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Internet
The following appears in my Internet section of my Draft section:

Raper was one of the first web site developers on the internet related to swing dancing.[citation needed]

I obtained two domain names that any swing dancer who was first on the internet would have obtained. They were SwingDance.com and LindyHop.com. This should be a good enough citation.

Hubert Leon Raper 14:23, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid we need a reliable secondary source that describes you as "one of first web site developers on the internet related to swing dancing" you just saying it, is original research and not permitted. Theroadislong (talk) 15:26, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Hubert Leon Raper 16:42, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I may be wrong, but I don't think you will find any writing anywhere stating that I was one of the first web site developers on the internet related to swing dance.


 * I thought common sense would answer that question. If someone else obtained SwingDance.com and LindyHop.com then I would not be the first on the internet related to swing dance.  That is unless I was dumber than a hoe handle.


 * If anyone obtained the primary domains related to swing dance, that would certainly prove to me that whoever they were they would be one of the first on the internet related to swing dance. I obtained all of the preferential domains related to swing dance. See below:
 * SwingDance.com (1995)
 * LindyHop.com (1995)
 * DanceCorner.com (1996)
 * RetroSwing.com (1998)
 * DanceDictionery.com (2000)
 * GetDownSwing.com (2000)
 * FunkSwing.com (2001)
 * WhosWhoInSwingDance.com (2007)


 * The only other early domain names that I am aware of are:
 * StreetSwing.com (Oct 17, 1998)
 * SwingCraze.com (Oct 29, 1998)


 * You can check out domain names at:
 * http://who.is/ ... Who.is


 * Sometimes, without solid proof, even in science, decisions are made by researching as much information as one can. I think my information is sufficient for the decision I made stating that I was one of the first on the internet related to swing dance.


 * If that doesn't work then there is nothing more that I can say.

Hubert Leon Raper 16:42, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 23:54, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

I have just cleaned up the Internet section on my page. There is no longer a need for a citation.

LeonRaper 23:54, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

References & Citations
I sent about 10 .pdf files from which their information needs to be linked to the respective documents listed under References on my page. Also, a few items on that page bring up blank pages instead of the .pdf reference I supplied. I wish I knew how to do this and I would do it myself. However I don't know I am mentally competent to do that.

Hubert Leon Raper 17:43, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Stop emailing me
I've said it before, and I'll say it again- stop emailing me. I don't respond to emails unless there's a reason it can't be discussed on here. Also, I'm not even involved with editing the draft anymore, I got fed up of wasting time on it ages ago.

This is your final warning- I am hereby banning you from emailing me and from editing my talkpage. If you do either of these things, I will seek the help of administrators to take action against your harassment. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:29, 13 May 2016 (UTC) Hubert Leon Raper 00:28, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

I am very sorry. I didn't know I was emailing you. Wikipedia is much too complicated for me to know how to do anything. I won't bother you any more.

Hubert Leon Raper 00:28, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

References - Tagged Items

 * I sent Wikipedia a list of 10 .pdf files to add 1 to each of the entries in my References. Someone at Wikipedia entered tags (I guess) to activate 2 of the .pdf files.  However, when they are clicked on then blank pages come up.


 * Is there a better file format to use than a .pdf file. If so, I'll convert each .pdf file to a different format?


 * Also, could someone tell me in detail how I can tag (I guess) or attach each one of the .pdf files to the appropriate listing in my References. Hubert Leon Raper 14:35, 14 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't know what you mean when you say you "sent Wikipedia a list of 10 .pdf files to add" who did you send them to? I added a link to two pdf files as part of references, you had uploaded these pdf files to your website so they were visible. There isn't any way to "tag" pdf files. Theroadislong (talk) 14:55, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Jbhunley gave me his real email address and I emailed the 10 .pdf files to him as attachments to the email. I would be happy to send them to anyone else, but I need a real email address so I can attach the files.

I'm not sure a .pdf file is the correct format for the Wikipedia system. That would probably require Adobe Acrobat to open the files. There must be another file format you need. As I mentioned two of the .pdf files already on my References page open to blank screens.

Thanks for your help, Hubert Leon Raper 15:36, 14 May 2016 (UTC)


 * In References, first entry, if the code was entered as http://www.swingdance.com/Jitterbug Magazine 9-1992.pdf everything would work. However the code was entered as: http://www.swingdance.com/Jitterbug%20Magazine%209-1992.pdf which does not work.


 * 1.Jump up ^ "Swing Around the Circuit: Flagstaff, Arizona"


 * Hubert Leon Raper 16:38, 14 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Both links to pdf files work fine for me as they are.Theroadislong (talk) 16:42, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

Try:   http://www.swingdance.com/Jitterbug Magazine 9-1992.pdf  ... This will not work because there is a symbol placed between Jitterbuf and magazine when I save this page Hubert Leon Raper 17:35, 14 May 2016 (UTC)


 * That doesn't work, but in any case you are trying to fix something which isn't broken. Theroadislong (talk) 17:43, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't know why it is working for you.

Line 1: It does not work on my web page. Try it at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Leon_Raper

Line 4 There is also another link that that does not work. try it at: http://swingdance.com/Orange%20County%20Register%2010-27-1974.pdf

If these Reference lines work on your machine then "Houston We Have A Problem" that has to be solved. Hubert Leon Raper 18:32, 14 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes they work for me "Houston YOU have a problem" Theroadislong (talk) 18:52, 14 May 2016 (UTC)


 * My first suggestion would be to update Adobe Reader. Theroadislong (talk) 18:55, 14 May 2016 (UTC)

You are absolutely correct. I tried it an another computer and it worked. However, using Adobe is a pain in the for readers. Do you know how to convert pdf files to html files? I see there are quite a few sources to do that on the internet. If you can't do it I'll try myself on all 10 of my .pdf files. By the way did you get all 10 files emailed to you? Thank you very much.


 * Don't worry about converting .pdf to html. I just did it and it doesn't create a proper document. Hubert Leon Raper 20:11, 14 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Someone needs to contact me and tell me exactly how to enter or modify tags in the Reference section of my page. I can then create the tags needed for the other stuff in the Reference section.  This will also allow me to make any updates that are necessary in the future. LeonRaper 23:58, 15 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you mean by "tag", but you can find information on how to format and add references to the draft at Help:Referencing for beginners and Help:Referencing for beginners without using templates. I suggest you take a little time to read through those pages and then practice formatting references in your user sandbox. did explain exactly the easiest way to add references in his third post at Draft talk:Leon Raper, but perhaps you missed it. All the information you need is on Wikipedia, you just have to set aside a little to time to read it. A number of editors have previously tried to explain various other things to you step-by-step such as how to properly sign your posts, etc., but those efforts seem to have not helped much. So, you might just need to learn by doing things yourself. Read the info pages and then practice in your sandbox. If at first you don't succeed, then try, try again. If you find yourself making mistakes and don't know what they are, then ask someone to take a look at your sandbox. Or, you can click on the "Edit" button for the draft and see how other editors have done things. The formatting of all the reference currently cited in the article is all there for anyone to see.
 * Finally, you've referred to the draft as "my page" or "my article" a number of times. If you mean "the Wikipedia draft/article written about me", then no big deal. If you mean "the Wikipedia draft/article written about me that I control", then there is a potentially a big problem. As I've pointed out before, we as editors do not own anything we create or edit, and the subjects of articles do not own anything written about them on Wikipedia. Swingdance.com, raper.com, etc. are your webpages and you can post anything you want on them. Draft:Leon Raper is not your webpage; it is Wikipedia's and anyone can do as they please with it. This is a very important to understand when it comes to Wikipedia and mixing up the two can not only lead to some serious problems with other editors down the road, but also major stress and disappointment. So, if your goal is to have complete control over your online presence, then you probably should try avoid having anything written about you on Wikipedia for as long as possible. Once something about you has been added to Wikipedia, it's pretty much there to be molded and shaped into whatever by anyone who can access the Internet and there's much that you, me or anyone else can do to stop them. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:31, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you and I will review your Wikipedia page references. I am very sorry, but I don't have a PhD in Wikipedia. I am just trying to survive getting my Wikipedia page completed. I really appreciate your help. LeonRaper 04:52, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't have a Ph.D. in Wikipedia either . In fact, I was probably just as lost as you were when I started out and made lots of mistakes. The same is probably true for every editor who has tried to help you so far. Wikipedia does have lots of policies and guidelines and special ways of doing pretty much everything that can be done. Everyone starts out in the same boat, but over time you start to understand more and more and figure things out. Experienced editors completely understand how hard Wikipedia can be at first. This is why Wikipedia's encourages those who have been around for awhile to always try and assume good faith and to encourage new editors as much as possible. Misunderstandings can easily occur, however, when other editors see an editor trying to explain "ownership of content" to you like I did above, but then in your very next post you write I am just trying to survive getting my Wikipedia page completed. If you keep posting things such as that, other editors are going to start to question your motives for editing. They might assume (perhaps unfairly) that you are more interested in self-promotion: not so much as for financial gain, but perhaps because you feel you should be somehow recognized for your achievements. That's not what Wikipedia is really about. Wikipedia is not for telling the world who you are; Wikipedia is only for letting the world know what independent reliable sources have said about you. Our role as editors is to take whatever information can be found in those reliable sources, and express it in our own words in a way that complies with Wikipedia's standards. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:32, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

May 2016
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war&#32; according to the reverts you have made on Swing Dance Hall of Fame. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware that Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states: If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.The requirements for proper sourcing have been repeatedly'' explained to you at Draft talk:Leon Raper and your talk page. I think that the tolerance extended to new editors has pretty much reached an end. '' J bh  Talk  19:06, 16 May 2016 (UTC)
 * 1) Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made.
 * 2) Do not edit war even if you believe you are right.

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion
Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. The thread is Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. Thank you. J bh Talk  19:29, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

Managing a conflict of interest
Hello, LeonRaper. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places, or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic, and it is important when editing Wikipedia articles that such connections be completely transparent. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. In particular, we ask that you please:


 * avoid editing or creating articles related to you and your family, friends, school, company, club, or organization, as well as any competing companies' projects or products;
 * instead, you are encouraged to propose changes on the Talk pages of affected article(s) (see the request edit template);
 * when discussing affected articles, disclose your COI (see WP:DISCLOSE);
 * avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or to the website of your organization in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
 * exercise great caution so that you do not violate Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Please take a few moments to read and review Wikipedia's policies regarding conflicts of interest, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, sourcing and autobiographies. Thank you. Thomas.W talk 19:45, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Why is it in every discussion with Wikipedia people that something is my fault.


 * Regarding my employment, I work for myself in an office in my home. That has nothing to do with my trying to create a Wikipedia dance page.


 * You have an entire list of crap above that I don't know anything about. I have had hundreds of contacts with Wikipedia people trying to prepare a simple page about dance.LeonRaper 22:51, 16 May 2016 (UTC)


 * You're not trying to prepare "a page about dance", you're trying to create an article that is obviously about yourself, i.e. an autobiography, and add what is obviously your own name to a list of award recipients, without having any sources for it. Which according to Wikipedia's rules is a conflict of interest and self-promotion. Thomas.W talk 11:14, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Sorry Thomas, you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Dancing has been my life. I have spent thousands of hours creating web sites to provide dancers with free information throughout the world. LeonRaper 02:04, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

May 2016
You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you purposefully and blatantly harass a fellow Wikipedian, as you did at User talk:Theroadislong. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:06, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Stop posting on talkpages that you have been banned from my users. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:07, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you use Wikipedia for soapboxing, promotion or advertising. Wikipedia is not a mechanism for you to promote yourself, so please stop. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:08, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 12:53, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry to have offended you or anyone else at Wikipedia.

LeonRaper 12:53, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. — MRD2014 (formerly Qpalzmmzlapq) T C 13:48, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Your biography article
I am sorry to say that with yet another AFC submission of your article declined and no prospect for more sources with significant coverage it is my firm opinion you do not meet Wikipedia's guidelines for inclusion in the encyclopedia. This is in no way meant to diminish your decades of work or your accomplishments. I simply mean that the sources are not sufficiant to demonstrate notability. I believe further submissions to AFC without significant improvement in the article would be considered disruptive and would likely lead to administrative sanction. I hope you will consider continuing to participate as an editor here on Wikipedia. Your extensive knowledge about dance and the engineering and Hollywood knowledge would make you a very valluable contributor in those areas. J bh Talk  16:23, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

May 2016
You have been blocked indefinitely from editing because it appears that you are not here to build an encyclopedia. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page:. Drmies (talk) 18:30, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Some Thoughts
Keep in mind that you're not dealing/interacting with employees of Wikipedia. You're interacting with total volunteers who are in no way formally associated with or employed by Wikipedia...this is actually how Wikipedia works...hundreds of thousands of people throughout the world build Wikipedia, and keep each other in line via policy that was agreed upon via consensus..(so none of these people are obligated to interact with you as if they are employees who owe you "customer service.")

You seem to be an accomplished guy who is notable within certain dance communities. This may not, however, make you notable in the way Wikipedia has defined it for an article topic..It's possible you are; but this would have to be properly established just like it has to be for any other potential article topic (via the notability guidelines)..If you fail at notability here, no big deal...it's possible you still have content that could be included in other articles (ie "Swing Dance" etc and perhaps even links to some of your websites could possibly be included there...best to propose on the TALK pages of these articles first though)..68.48.241.158 (talk) 18:33, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * okay it appears you have been blocked from editing..this isn't because you're a bad person or people dislike you..but because you've had trouble understanding Wikipedia and it's become distracting...consider learning a bit more about Wikipedia and then making an unblock request whereby you articulate how you'll edit Wikipedia in the future...(perhaps editing dance articles themselves etc)..68.48.241.158 (talk) 18:38, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * LeonRaper, Drmies, the Wikipedia admin who blocked you, asked me to drop you a note about the block, as he had to go offline. As noted by 68.48... above, you were blocked not because we think you have bad motivations, but because you don't seem to be able to understand how things are done here, despite numerous editors trying to help you.  Even simple things like signing your posts properly (with four tildes [~] ), or indenting your messages so that they're easier to read seem to come hard to you - but we could live with that if you would only learn to understand that, according to our standards, an article about yourself is not notable, and we only allow articles about notable people, things or events.  Those standards have been developed over the years through the collective contributions of many hundreds of Wikipedia editors, and we follow them so that the encyclopedia remains relevant, and not a catch-all for anything that comes done the pike. I know it may be a bit of a blow to you to hear that your life is "not notable", but please understand that this will be true for the vast majority of people.  I myself work in a high-profile field, and could easily put together an article about myself (under my real name) with many citations, but it really wouldn't be enough to pass the Wikipedia notability standards, and I would expect that it would be deleted because of that. Please note that the block put on you is not infinite, it is "indefinite".  That means that it can be lifted at any time.  There is a procedure to do so - which is noted on the block notice above - and you're welcome to file an unblock request.  However, speaking for myself (a non-admin) and not for Drmies or any other Wikipedia admin, I would imagine that your unblock request would be better received if you pledged not to try to create another article about yourself, and to try your best to learn to follow Wikipedia's policies and customary procedures. We always need editors here to contribute to improving the encyclopedia, and would love to welcome you as a participant, so please give what I've written some thought, and decide if you would like to be part of the Wikipedia community under those terms. My best to you, BMK (talk) 19:01, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi, I am really confused I have done everything that the volunteers asked me to do. Look at my proposed page.  There is only one request for a citation on my 2015 World Swing Dance Hall of Fame Awards.  Today I sent in a pdf document for that citation.  I also sent in other 9 pdf files that can be use as citations for items under References.  4 haven't been included yet.


 * Yes I now know how to indent and use the LeonRaper 19:40, 17 May 2016 (UTC) to end an article.


 * What really burned my bacon was Wikipedia people telling me I wasn't notable. They removed all my notability from my web page. I fought back so much that I think I really irritated them.  Rather than solving the problems the easy way is to just delete me.


 * I have provided swing dancers throughout the world since 1995. I was one of the first dancers on the internet - even though your people rejected that statement.


 * I guess I have irritated enough people at Wikipedia that nothing I say will help.


 * Please thank Marchjuly and Theroadislong for their help. I'm sorry I finally ran them off too.


 * I wish someone would give me another chance. LeonRaper 19:40, 17 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Please understand that what constitutes enough notability to have a Wikipedia article (according to Wikipedia's agreed upon policy) is quite a high bar..normally, people who have that kind of notability have absolutely nothing to do with the creation of the article...other random, unconnected people throughout the world create the article and can easily point to proper third-party sources to establish this notability...this doesn't mean you're not notable or unaccomplished outside of the realm of Wikipedia, so don't take it personally...you may in the future have ways to contribute to other article topics (ie swing dancing) and it's possible that things you've done can be cited or linked to within that article...does this make sense?68.48.241.158 (talk) 19:59, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

I am sick of Wikipedia talking about me not notable enough. If you really believe that then just delete my proposed page because you don't know anything about me. LeonRaper 01:56, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Dear Mr Raper, from a lot of the interactions I've seen here on your talk page and elsewhere there seems to be a disparity over what you consider notability and what Wikipedia considers notability. Wikipedia's definition of notability is quite stringent. Yes, you certainly have provided references and citations that mention your name in regards to your activities within Swing dance. However, notability is established by use of reliable sourcing and verification. These two terms have very specific meanings on Wikipedia. Reliable sources are required to have extensive editorial oversight of their publications, such sources include major newspapers and news outlets, both online and offline. For example, information about a movie published on the website Rotten Tomatoes is considered reliable whereas information published on IMDB.com is not considered reliable because it is largely user generated with little oversight. There are exceptions even within major news outlets. For instance, Fox News is never considered reliable largely because of its, near rabid, ultra conservative pro-Republican bias, despite the fact that it has an extensive oversight apparatus. One of the UK's largest papers, the Daily Mail, is also not considered reliable as it is largely a tabloid known for delivering false stories to increase circulation, again despite having an extensive oversight apparatus.

Local news coverage, i.e. media that is only circulated within a small community, can be used sometimes as a reliable source to help establish notability, but an article that relies purely on such coverage would not be considered notable. Instead, editors reviewing an article that includes local news coverage generally expect that the foundation of the article relies on strong sourcing from the aforementioned major outlets.

This is just step 1 in the process of establishing notability. Now, even if you are able to have a reliable major publication mention you, the next phase of verifying notability is whether the source talks about the subject in depth. This means that the article solely talks about the subject, in this case you and your life's work. Merely being a single line mention in a reliable source is insufficient to establish notability. For example, a newspaper running an interview article that discusses your early life, how you got into swing dance, what you achieved, the halls of fame you been listed, the competitions you have won or perhaps missed out on, etc. would certainly be considered a good strong source in terms of general notability. However, an article that is reporting on the 2015 Hall of Fame where it is simply mentioned that Mr, Mrs or Ms So-and-so was listed but goes on to other entries would not be considered a strong source, unless of course it was providing sourcing for a statement about the fact that Mr, Mrs or Ms So-and-so had entered in the the Hall of Fame. However, in the wider context of Wikipedia's standard of notability, it would be of limited strength.

Please bear in mind that this does nothing to take away the notability you have within the swing dance community. But within the policies and guidelines developed by the general community on Wikipedia, an article about you just does not fit the bill. I hope that this may alleviate some of the distress your experience has brought you. With respect, Blackmane (talk) 03:07, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Please don't bother me again about notability. If I am not notabile to you then you don't have a clue who I am. Please don't confront me with this notability issue again. LeonRaper 04:18, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Don't "shoot the messenger"..the above just explained Wikipedia policy..that person has NOTHING to do with deciding what the policy is (that decision was made over many years via the input of tens of thousands of volunteer editors)...note: I may be able to work toward getting you listed in that hall of fame page via that youtube video...would this be satisfying to you? if not, I probably won't take the time...68.48.241.158 (talk) 12:02, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I would really appreciate getting help listing me on the hall of fame page. I just sent an email this morning to Annie Hirsch, J-Jay,Jim Tigges and Mary Collins (Dean Collins wife) containing my Dance Biography and links of me and Colleen dancing. See below:


 * 1973 San Diego Swing Dance Festival: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyLUAJkClmc
 * 1972 West Coast Swing Dance Festival: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4FSPraUySk

Regarding "shoot the messenger," I have been sent the same comment over 100 times by Wikipedia people. Enough is Enough.

I would really appreciate it if someone would finalize my web page. There is only one outstanding citation which I sent a solution in for yesterday.

Thanks again, LeonRaper 13:46, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Why am I receiving numbers now instead of a reference name of whoever I am talking with. I don't have a clue who you are. LeonRaper 13:51, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Those numbers are the IP address of an editor who has chosen not to register an account. J bh  Talk  13:58, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * yes, I edit "anonymously," just using my IP number..this is perfectly allowable and many editors do (I just haven't bothered to create a "username"..which is just something people make up..(though sometimes they make it the same as their real life name)...nobody's real-world identity is verified on Wikipedia...you can just call me "68" if need to refer to me...THE BEST THING would be for that hall of fame website to update to include the recent award recepients, including yourself...the site hasn't been updated...so perhaps you can request that of them?? Then you can easily be cited to that, as it's a little unusual to use a youtube video as a cite...68.48.241.158 (talk) 14:00, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry, we use to live in a world where human beings talked to other human beings. I can't remember numbers when I am dealing with over 30 Wikipedia people.

I wish someone would add the citations to my References that I sent to Wikipedia. I also wish someone would add the citation I sent yesterday to my Awards, 1015 Award.

I really appreciate your help. LeonRaper 14:25, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * there's certainly some utility in having a username as far as identification (I'm just a bit lazy in creating one)..but generally it doesn't add that much confusion...it's unlikely there to be another "68" in the context of particular interactions..note too: Wikipedia is not a social-networking site and networking type behavior is discouraged...people shouldn't be here to make "friends" but to engage in the business of the encyclopedia...you can rightfully be listed in that hall of fame page, so long as it can be cited to something other than you (ie listed on their website..or in a newspaper article about it...it's possible the youtube video of the presentation itself could suffice but it's a stretch as this is an usual type of cite)..68.48.241.158 (talk) 14:39, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

I understand you're frustrated Hubert Leon Raper at hearing the same thing over and over again, but believe me it's even more frustrating for editors to keep explaining the same thing over and over again to you. You being blocked from editing is basically Wikipedia telling you "Enough is Enough" because the perception is that you either refuse to listen to or are incapable of understanding what various editors have been trying to tell you. As explained to you previously, this is not "your web page" and continuing to refer to it as such only shows that the administrator who blocked you was correct in doing so. The administrator blocked you because he feels your only interest in Wikipedia is getting an article written about you and that you have no interest whatsoever in helping to improve overall quality of Wikipedia. In other words, the community seems to feel that you have nothing positive to contribute to Wikipedia. I say "community" because that is what Wikipedia basically is; it's volunteers from around the world working together to try and improve the overall quality of Wikipedia. The blocking administrator did not act arbitrarily; he was responding to concerns others posted about you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring. The quality of our edits are all others have to go on when it comes to Wikipedia. Mistakes are expected and even encouraged because basically the encyclopedia is improved over time by correcting these mistakes. The community, however, also expects its editors to learn from their mistakes and not repeat them over and over again. The community is only willing to be so patient and it will request that administrators get involved if it feels these mistakes start becoming detrimental to Wikipedia.

So, if your goal is to be given a second chance and be unblocked, then continuing to insist that Wikipedia publish your article is not the right way to go about accomplishing that. None of the references you have provided so far are sufficient for a stand-alone article to be written about you. I've really tried hard to find stuff, but I have just had no luck. You need to accept that for what it is and move on, at least for the time being. You have much knowledge which could be helpful in improving so many other articles. The reason so many editors have been trying to help you is that they sincelrely feel you can contribute positively to Wikipedia. If you were just somebody only interested in playing games and vandalizing Wikipedia, you would've been dropped like a hot potato and blocked right at the start. So, if you just gave some indication that you were willing to do try and contribute to building the encyclopedia in other ways, then the blocking administrator might feel that a second chance is not going to be just a waste of time. You should also understand that if you continue to use this talk page to try and lash out at others, the blocking administrator may decide to block you from even editing it. So far, you haven't asked about what you need to do to get unblocked. Do you want to be able to edit Wikipedia again? Your primary concern at the moment, in my opinion, should be figuring out what you need to do to get back into good standing as editor. You should put your draft on the back burner for the time being and focus on what you need to do to get unblocked. On the other hand, if you really have no interest at all in getting unblocked and helping to build the encyclopedia, then just say so. That way everyone will as least know where you stand. -- Marchjuly (talk) 15:35, 18 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Yes, I want to be unblocked. And, yes I want to complete my draft page.  But now is sounds like you want me to do other duties for Wikipedia.  Is that correct?  If so, I may occasionally for dance.  I just want to get my page completed so I don't have to deal with these battles all the time.  :LeonRaper 22:58, 18 May 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs) 22:58, 18 May 2016 (UTC+9


 * What I am saying is that there are many ways for someone to contribute to Wikipedia which do not involve trying to add content about hiself or herself. Wikipedia is not really a job or a duty, at least that's not how I see it. You're a teacher so obviously you like interacting and helping others. In addition to dance, you've posted that you have experience as a proofreader and a technical writer as well as experience in creating websites, etc. This is all knowledge which could possibly be used to help improve any number of the 5,000,000 plus article currently on Wikipedia. Some editors simply enjoy proofreading various articles and correcting grammar/spelling errors, etc. Others enjoy trying to clean up article formatting or syntax. Some editors like finding appropriate images to add to article while others like searching the Internet for better reliable sources to add to articles. Every article currently on Wikipedia is technically a work-in-progress which can be improved by someone in some way. This is what experienced editors mean when they talk about being here to build an encyclopedia. I have two left feet so I look pretty silly when I dance. So, if I was serious about becoming a good dancer, I would probably seek out a teacher such as yourself so that I could take advantage of your knowledge and experience. For the sake of argument, let's say you have two left thumbs when it comes to Wikipedia and how it works. There are very experienced editors who like mentoring those who are just starting out. Please look at Wikipedia:Adopt-a-user/Adoptee's Area for more information. There is also the Wikipedia adventure which is an interactive introduction that explains the very aspect of Wikipedia editing. As mentions above, there may be conditions placed upon you in order for you to be unblocked, such as you agreeing to stop trying to create content about yourself. Is this something that you would be willing to accept?


 * Wikipedia is not supposed to be a battleground so try not to see every discussion which does not go as you like as such. Wikipedia is not about winning and sometimes you have to be willing to step back and move on to other things when things do not go as you like. You have already submitted the draft via AfC three times and it has been rejected three times. You have tried to add it to the article namespace yourself three times and it has been speedily deleted three times. So, unless significantly better sourcing can be found to establish Wikipedia notability, I don't there is much hope of the draft ever being adding to the article namespace. If you take a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, you'll find there are hundreds of currently ongoing discussions about whether certain articles belong on Wikipedia. Almost all of these discussions have to do with the subject's Wikipedia notability or the lack thereof. Click on any discussion and you're likely to find editors brutally assessing notability. This kind of assessment is constantly happening on Wikipedia, so it's not something unique to your draft. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:01, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Marchjuly,


 * You are a really good person and I really appreciate your help, but there is noting else I can do to convince anyone at Wikipedia that I am notable person.


 * Dancers throughout the world think I am notable, but that isn't helping me here. My most important work on the internet was creating DanceDictionary.com and WhosWhoInSwingDance.com ... I have also created many more web sites.


 * I wish you well, and you can cancel my page when you are ready. I don't want to negotiate any more.


 * Thanks for your help. LeonRaper 01:59, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I can't remember what Wikipedia page it was, but I sent in a correction to how to do St. Louis Shag. My definition is absolutely correct. I learned it from Kenny Wetzel in 1974 after I saw Mike Faile from St. Louis doing it in the 1974 World Swing Dance Championships which I was in.


 * After the competition we took lessons from Kenny Wetzel who came original from St. Louis. I told Kenny that we would take lessons if he promised not to teach it to anyone else for one year.  It was an outstanding dance done at very high speeds - about 165 beats per minute. LeonRaper 02:10, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Why didn't anyone give this gentleman the advice to lurk moar? Wikipedia is not a place for someone to arrive out of the blue and make an article about themselves (unless they happen to be a big financial donor to Wikipedia of course ). He should have been told to look at hundreds of Wikipedia articles, preferably biographical articles, then to start making some edits to existing articles. Then after making a few thousand such edits, and in a few months from now, maybe he would be in a position to create an article and know how to word it correctly, and format it, and reference it - or have the understanding that such an article should not exist due to lack of notability. Notability means being noted in acceptable sources. If Mr Raper has that notability, the chance is that somebody sometime will make an article. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 02:45, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * The problem all along has been that Mr Raper's idea of their own notability is completely incompatible with Wikipedia's policy. Mr Raper, you say above that "Dancers throughout the world think I am notable..", but no matter how many people think you are notable, in fact even if everyone in the world were to think you were notable, if no one from a media outlet, that is considered per Wikipedia policy to be a reliable one, writes about you, then there is no way that an article will be kept here. Editors here are bound by Wikipedia's Notability policy. This is the point that various editors have been hammering at for a very long time.


 * When it comes to creating websites, again, sourcing is the problem here. Has anyone written about your websites? Anyone can create a website, it takes a few taps at a keyboard, a search for a domain host and a few more taps and voila a website is created. Creating a notable website is entirely something else. If your website had cultural, social or economic impact, for example something like Buzzfeed, Mashable, Cnet, eBay, Paypal or Amazon, and someone from a media outlet wrote an in depth article about that impact, then for certain your website would clearly be notable. Blackmane (talk) 06:54, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I am very notable in the world of dance and engineering from which I received very high notability and 5 patents. I am also very notable under Wikipedia standards.  However, I can't convince you of that.  I have irritated so many people at Wikipedia, in response to their highly negative comments about me.  This has created a team of people who just want to get rid of me. LeonRaper 12:38, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * you do seem notable and I enjoyed the youtube videos of you dancing in the 1970s...it's just that Wikipedia wants notability to be demonstrated in a very particular kind of way (which means both being sourced AND being sourced in prominent enough sources)...but who really cares if one has a Wikipedia article about himself? Don't worry about it....(see my post below about suggestions for you about other articles)..68.48.241.158 (talk) 12:50, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * You still don't appear to have read ANY of the advice you have been given. Wikipedia's notability guidelines state that "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list "Significant coverage" addresses the topic directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention, but it does not need to be the main topic of the source material." We simply can't find the sources to support your notability. Theroadislong (talk) 12:53, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Being notable for Wikipedia doesn't mean people personally acknowledging you as being notable in your field, or being a recognizable person within a particular community, or artistic genre. Notability means that other people have at some point in time created sources that mention you and that can be used to both show you are notable and obtain content to fill the article. To take an extreme example, Jesus Christ (if he existed) was just another executed criminal, not notable by Wikipedia standards. Being the Son of God and producing various miracles is not notable enough for a Wikipedia article until somebody writes about it. He only became notable when people started to write about Him and His influences. I don't know if sources exist that show your notability, but the difficulty seems to be that you have not presented those sources if they exist. However, a good thing is that on Wikipedia being notable in a small field or obscure genre is still being notable, and notability also does not decline over time. If you were notable 30 years ago, and can find sources showing it, you are still notable for Wikipedia purposes even though you might not be as well known today. And there is some understanding that pre-Internet-Age sources might be hard to find, especially if they are in niche publications. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 14:42, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * You need to go to a . I am not a religious person, but using Jesus as an example of notability was really a bad idea.  I would really appreciate it if Tiptoethrutheminefield doesn't contacting me again. LeonRaper 15:37, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * keep it friendly, he was just using an extreme example to demonstrate how notability works on wikipedia..the "if he existed" part was unneccesary though..but, indeed, too many people are coming around and restating what's already been restated so I'm sure it's becoming bothersome...hopefully this will stop now..consider what I wrote in the new section below though...and take things slow as far as trying Wikipedia again..68.48.241.158 (talk) 15:49, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I am not "contacting you", Leonraper - this is a public space like anywhere on Wikipedia. Your proposed article is also a public space. Maybe you need advice on ownership issues too. Though advice seems to be something you do not follow, so I will not waste more of my time giving it. Allusion also defeats you, which says things far worse about your character. However, "if he existed" actually was unnecessary - even imaginary things and fictitious characters have Wikipedia notability if sourced. 19:10, 19 May 2016 (UTC)Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk)

"Swing Dance"
If Mr. Raper has any interest in giving Wikipedia a try in the future (he may not at this point) I'd encourage him to switch his attention from an article about himself to articles such as "Swing Dance." That article could certainly be improved. And there's a section called "swing dancing today" which could use major expansion...you likely have knowledge and even documents/cites to be used in that article...and possibly things you've been involved with can be referenced there...so if make an unblock request, perhaps state your intention to work on these types of articles...68.48.241.158 (talk) 11:52, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Joseph2302 (talk) 12:59, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I need an email address at Wikipedia where I can email all 10 of my citation pdf files related to my References. I just found out some of my reviewers at Wikipedia have never seen these citations.  These citations should clear up any notability problem that keeps popping up. LeonRaper 17:42, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

May 2016
Please stop attacking other editors. If you continue, you may lose the ability to edit this page also. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. -- GB fan 15:45, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Your Wikipedia people have been severely attacking me for a very long time. Right now Wikipedia won't let me participate in a discussion about me in your Administration office.  You haven't even looked at the pdf files written by others that I sent you days ago.  You keep saying you don't have anything written by others that makes me notable.


 * Please read the pdf file Orange County Register - Oct 27-1974. This news paper is one of the largest in California.


 * Please look at the video I sent you about me being awarded by the 2015 "World Swing Dance Hall of Fame." Is there something you don't understand about the word "World?"


 * Look at my award from the California Swing Dance Hall of Fame. Go to the web link and look that up.  You will see me in the "Golden Star Category" with some of the most notable people in swing dance history.


 * Isn't it sad that you are attacking an 80 year old man who has attained mega notability in the dance world. You should be ashamed of yourselves. LeonRaper 16:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I have not attacked you once. I have only tried to help you.  You did not send me any pdf files, I don't know who you sent them to so I can't look at them.  I would like to help but can't.  As far as the notice about the discussion at the Notice board, if you go back to the way you were acting before that put up, nothing will come of it.  -- GB fan 16:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry you didn't know about the citation pdf files related to my Reference listings. Please give me a primary email address at Wikipedia where I can send the files.  Hopefully all the people contacting me could review them.  Without that information no one at Wikipedia could make a rational decision. LeonRaper 17:27, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jbhunley,

I am getting massive negativity from reviewers at Wikipedia. Could you please send this to Theroadislong, Marchjuly, GB fan, Randykitty, and wherever you can at Wikipedia so all the reviewers can see it. Others at Wikipedia have told me they haven’t seen this yet.

Your message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: AZ Daily Sun - Apr 16-1989.pdf AZ Daily Sun - June 6-1992.pdf French Book 2012.pdf Jitterbug Magazine 9-1992.pdf Journal Plus - Nov 1-2000.pdf Lumberjack Apr 8-1992.pdf Lumberjack March 4-1992.pdf Orange County Register - Oct 27-1974 - New.pdf Orange County Register 10-27-1974.pdf Swing Dance Journal - Oct 1992.pdf WSDHOF Award 2015.pdf Shortcut to: C:\Users\Leon\Documents\HLR - Wikipedia\WSDHOF Award 2015.pdf LeonRaper 17:27, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * This appears to be --  samtar talk or stalk 17:36, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but I don't know what this means. Could you please help me.  Thanks LeonRaper 17:56, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * that's the ticket number for the email you sent in...he's just confirming that you sent in an email..68.48.241.158 (talk) 18:16, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Just got done looking at the system, there are others also but I did not find any that contained any pdf files. -- GB fan 18:32, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Isn't it interesting how some Wikipedia reviewers want to keep on fighting. Please see the  following:


 * I am not "contacting you", Leonraper - this is a public space like anywhere on Wikipedia. Your proposed article is also a public space. Maybe you need advice on ownership issues too. Though advice seems to be something you do not follow, so I will not waste more of my time giving it. Allusion also defeats you, which says things far worse about your character. However, "if he existed" actually was unnecessary - even imaginary things and fictitious characters have Wikipedia notability if sourced. 19:10, 19 May 2016 (UTC)Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk)


 * LeonRaper 21:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * "Mega famous"? That very statement shows why you are not allowed to create these articles - promotion. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 21:54, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 22:06, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Aren't you an interesting Wikipedia reviewer? You love to be negative with people, don't you. It is quite obvious you don't know anything about me.  You haven't even seen my Reference pdf citations files that I just sent about 3 minutes ago to one of your other people.  I would suggest that you go play your game with someone else.  You got the wrong guy.

LeonRaper 22:06, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Note: I have copies of the material mentioned, he sent the material directly to me after he opened the OTRS ticket. If anyone wants these PDFs send me an email and I will forward them. My opinion of these sources is that they are not sufficiant to pass GNG and I have stated this clearly to Mr Raper. They are mostly 'community interest' type coverage in local papers and news letters and the only claims are "danced in over 400 compatitions" (No string of wins mentioned, No winning major events mentioned etc.) ; "been dancing for x years" (No indication this is unique or special in some way) ; "taught by x person" (No indication this is unique or special in some way or how he is any different from all of their other students) ; "is teaching classes" (No indication this is unique or special in some way or that he is somehow an. especilly sought after teacher.) etc. The book citations are bare mentions or photo captions. While there are a few different articles they all say the same thing, even some of the quotes are the same. I believe most of the information contained in the sources is in the article and cited to single articles. (I did not add sources which were duplicative when I first went through them) I admit that once I saw Mr Raper would not even bother to meet us half way by simply properly signing and indenting his comments - after many explanations and requests - I lost interest in continuing to help him and backed off to let others manage this. J bh  Talk  22:39, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 23:26, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I want to thank GB fan for helping me get my pdf citation files to Wikipedia. If I could have done this transfer quite some time ago I don't think the negativity we have now would have happened.


 * Let me clear up some points in GB fan's message


 * Regarding to my dance instruction, yes I have taught dance classes for over 25 years out of my over 50 years dancing.


 * Regarding news articles about me performing and teaching dances: IDon't know where the writers got their information.


 * The statement I wouldn't go half way Wikipedia people.  Let me clear that up.  There is no half way with Wikipedia interviewers ... "It is either their way or the highway"  and none of them had ever seen all 10 of my Reference pdf citations.


 * * Your Wikipedia people didn't no anything about me. referencee


 * I think we can make progress here. Mr Raper, please state in your own words, with reference to these links, the general notability guideline, notability of artists and notability of entertainers, how you feel that you fulfill the notability requirements. Please feel free to draw on whatever other links you find on Wikipedia that you believe can back up your argument.


 * I want to emphasise that no editor bears any malice towards you. We do not respond to you as an attack in any way, shape or form, but we are all volunteers who willingly expend our time writing, expanding and protecting the integrity of Wikipedia. None of us that have been responding here are employees of Wikipedia. Even the administrators themselves are not employees, instead they are members of the community who have been granted additional privileges in the collective goal to create and maintain this project. That being said, they have no power to rule on the content of an article except where a community discussion has determined that the article should be deleted, this is done through the Articles for deletion process.


 * please forward me copies of the material that Mr Raper sent. Thanks Blackmane (talk) 02:52, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * They are PDF files so I need an email address. Please email me and I will forward what he sent.  J bh  Talk  03:20, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I've just dropped you an email. Blackmane (talk) 03:44, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Sent. There should be four forwarded messages. J bh  Talk  03:48, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Got em, thanks. Mr Raper, I've just read through them all and have to agree with Jbhunley that none of them could conceivably be used to establish even the minimum for an article. Being associated with Hollywood celebrities is not a point of notability. Being a dance instructor for 25+ years is not a sign of notability, unless prior to being an instructor you had competed in and won / placed highly in major national competitions and after becoming an instructor you taught students who also became major competition winners. Simply being a dance instructor for 25+ years, while laudable, is not sufficient. The various newspaper articles cited are also run of the mill local news type articles that are not sufficient to establish notability. Blackmane (talk) 04:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Your username
Welcome to Wikipedia. I noticed that your username, "LeonRaper", may not comply with our username policy. Please note that you may not use a username that represents the name of a company, group, organization, product, or website. Examples of usernames that are not allowed include "XYZ Company", "MyWidgetsUSA.com", and "Foobar Museum of Art". However, you are invited to use a username that contains such a name if it identifies you personally, such as "Jack Smith at XYZ Company", "Mark at WidgetsUSA", or "FoobarFan87".

Please also note that Wikipedia does not allow accounts to be shared by multiple people, and that you may not advocate for or promote any company, group, organization, product, or website, regardless of your username. Moreover, I recommend that you read our conflict of interest guideline. If you are a single individual and are willing to contribute to Wikipedia in an unbiased manner, please create a new account or request a change of username, by completing this form, that complies with our username policy. If you believe that your username does not violate our policy, please leave a note here explaining why. Thank you. TJH2018 talk  23:29, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
 * There is nothing wrong with using your real life name as a username, and assuming that the above warning was a mistake, I have struck it. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:46, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 23:55, 19 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I don't know what I did to change my user name. I wish someone could tell me exactly how to change it to whatever you want it to be.  At age 80 I'm having to deal with all the problems dealing with Wikipedia.  I need real help.

LeonRaper 23:55, 19 May 2016 (UTC)

I have a feeling this is an erroneous message. Just ignore it for now..68.48.241.158 (talk) 01:38, 20 May 2016 (UTC
 * The warning was removed by Theroadislong here, but Leon Raper accidentally re-added it here. Anyway, WP:REALNAME says that editors are allowed to use their real names, so there's nothing to worry about here. I do suggest, however, that you slow down a bit when you reply to posts. It appears that you might be in such a rush to add a response that you are accidentally editing the posts of others like it looks you did here. You have to be very careful not to do this unless there's a really good policy/guideline based reason (see WP:TPO) because it can lead to serious problems with other editors. Accidents will occasionally happen, but just try to double check using the "Show preview" and "Show changes" buttons to be on the safe side. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:02, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 03:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't have a clue why you want more information from me. You send me a bunch of Jibberish requesting me to respond to something. I have sent you 10 pdf citations which gives you a great deal of information. Isn't it about time Wikipedia stops asking questions and starts working on my proposed Wikipedia page. After dealing with over 500 contacts with Wikipedia people, I need resolutions, and not questions.

LeonRaper 03:22, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Time for blunt talk. No one here owes you anything. You have asked for help and people have generously spent there time trying to help you. What you need is of absolutely no concern to anyone here. You have asked favors of strangers and have been rude when the reply is not what you want to hear. I doubt you would be so rude and demanding of strangers on the street so stop acting so here. Do not apologize again, you have done so several times without changing your behavior so it is meaningless, just change your behavior. Start with proper indenting and ONE signature at the BOTTOM of your post. I see you using ":" and "*" in a post just above so you know how it works so I can only assume you are being purposefully disruptive.  My personal view is that if you are either not courteous enough to do this simple thing or are truely incapable of understanding what to do, there is no point in continuing to help you.  J bh  Talk  03:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 11:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 11:43, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Friendly advice: take a couple week break from Wikipedia; just take a deep breath. Then read the policy pages on notability that have been provided to you (with a calm reading you'll learn that Wikipedia has a very particular way of defining "notability"..which means many people/things that are indeed notable otherwise don't qualify for an article within the realm of Wikipedia (but don't worry about it, who cares?)...then check out some articles you're interested in (like swing dancing) and see if there are things you can contribute to those articles...(it's even possible that things you've done and been involved with can be referenced/mentioned within those articles)...do not make another unblock request until you've taken my advice as it will just cause more problems/be a waste of time...and if you try to unblock again explain how you'll be interested in editing in the future (which will involve editing articles other than about yourself)...68.48.241.158 (talk) 14:58, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 17:10, 20 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the info. I'll try and take your advice. I wish everyone would look at my 10 pdf citations for my References.  I put a massive amount of work into trying to help other dancers throughout the world.  I also wish the volunteers would take a look at my dance biography at http://www.dancecorner.com/hlr/biodanc.html ... this would let them know about much of the work I have done.


 * THe two most important web sites I created are:
 * http://www.DnceDctionary.com/
 * http://www.whoswhoinswingdance.com/

LeonRaper 17:10, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Consider looking into places other than Wikipedia to post information about yourself and dancing (as Wikipedia just doesn't seem like a good place for this)..there must be other, better venues for this information to be posted...and you can likely still use those pdf sources at another venue so your time isn't wasted as far as creating those....68.48.241.158 (talk) 17:23, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi again Leon Raper. I still feel you have lots of knowledge about a variety of subjects, not just dance, that you could use to help improve Wikipedia. You experience as a proofreader/technical writer means you could really help as a Wikipedia:WikiGnome, a Wikipedia:WikiFairy or as a member of the Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors. This may not sound too glamorous, but you look at lots of different articles (some of which are pretty interesting) and see lots of different styles of editing.

As for other places to post you dance info, I Googled "dancepedia" on a whim and found http://www.zeetv.com/dancepedia/. I know nothing at all about that website, so maybe it's of no use to you. I also found https://dancepedia.wikispaces.com/, but again I have no idea if that is something for you. There are many Wikipedia-like sites on the Internet which use a similar set up to Wikipedia. I believe these are collectively referred to as Wikias or something. I think the software Wikipedia uses is freely licensed, so others just started created their own topic-specific "mini Wikipedias" (See Community Central) as the real Wikipedia became more and more popular. It may even be possible for you to create your own Swingdancepedia for exchanging information with others about swing dance. I think people like this format because it allows everyone to contribute in some way instead of simply being stuck reading what someone else wrote. There may be some rules you need to follow, but I don't think these are as extensive as what you find on Wikipedia. Be careful though to read through all the fine print regarding such sites because there may be a catch or two to using them.

Anyway, as stated early on by, being indefintely blocked does not mean forever. 68.48.241.158's "friendly advice" is not just friendly; it's really good advice. The more you poke around Wikipedia and see how others edit and how they explain their edits, the better feel you get for the place. Then after a bit of time has passed, you can post another unblock request if you feel that you would try editing Wikipedia again. I think that administrators like would like nothing more than to unblock you, but they will only do so if it's to Wikipedia's benefit. That last bit might sound a little harsh and negative, but it's not intended to be. Please try to understand that administrators also have rules to follow and more is actually expected of them by some because of the special privaledges they've been granted by the Wikipedia community. They have to make some tough (seemingly unfair) decisions sometimes, but they are expected to do what's best for the community as a whole, not just what's best for a single editor. Anyway, best of luck to you. -- Marchjuly (talk) 22:19, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 23:14, 20 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Marchjuly, I really appreciate your help.  You suggested that I get a new domain name like Swingdancepedia.  I am a smart domain name grabber.  I already have the domain name WikiSwingDance.com ... I just haven't used it yet.


 * I'll also look into those other domain sites you recommended. I don't think I will have any trouble getting one or more of them to accept my proposed web page.  I also think I can put some of the stuff back on my page that has been removed.


 * I assume Wikipedia is going to dump my page soon.


 * I really appreciate your help. And, I am sorry for getting so grumpy.


 * LeonRaper 23:14, 20 May 2016 (UTC)


 * If you're really intent on getting an article up somewhere, then you may want to create your own Wikia site. Unlike Wikipedia, a Wikia can be created entirely to your liking, you can set the rules the policies etc. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of Wikia concerning all manner of things. In fact, a Google search for "Swing Dance Wikia" turns up two. This one, which is a more general dance wikia and this one which is a wikia entirely dedicated to Swing dance. Wikia sites are generally fansites so do not have the same stringent requirements for sourcing that Wikipedia does. However, what you will find are like minded people who enjoy the same things you do. Both are quite small wikias which I am sure could benefit from your knowledge. Blackmane (talk) 13:34, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 14:09, 21 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your information. I'll start look into your recommendations.  However, I also own the domain WikiSwingDance.com but I haven't done anything with it yet.

LeonRaper 14:09, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 21:47, 21 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Can you help me get Unblocked? I am trying to learn how to use the Help:References for Beginners information, Inserting a Reference.

LeonRaper 21:47, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
 * As long as you persist in trying to (re)create an autobiographical article, then, I'm afraid the admins will not be willing to unblock your account. Blackmane (talk) 04:04, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 14:00, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

About 37 volunteers said I was not notable before they even read my biography. That is very negative. I should not be blocked. I got angry receiving over 500 back & forth negative comments about me from your people. You would have gotten very angry. I apologized to them, but it didn't make any difference. LeonRaper 14:00, 29 May 2016 (UTC)


 * As you will recognize, I have played no previous part at all in this discussion; I have, however, read through the entire thread and have also read the article submission in question. I am not making a determination here as I feel it appropriate to leave that to one of the other admins who have been interacting with you. But I will make a few comments and suggestions. Clearly a very significant stumbling block has been the issue of the word "notability", which has a meaning in Wikipedia perhaps a little different to the meaning in everyday conversation. In Wikipedia the word means that external significant, reliable and independent sources exist and are available to editors reading the encyclopedia. I regret to have to point out that the references you have indicated have been judged, by several administrators, not to fulfill these criteria. It is also important to appreciate that Wikipedia has no central article assessment authority. All assessments are made by volunteers, similar in skill, status and function to those with whom you have been interacting. The only correct place to post references is within an article (or draft article) and you have been told where to find instructions as to how this is done. The other main point is that of the definition of "autobiography", which is of course a biography written by the biography's subject. when an article entitled "Leon Raper" is posted on Leon Raper's page and is signed (initially incorrectly) by Leon Raper then it is an autobiography. whether an editor in a distant land would know it as an autobiography is quite beside the point; the fact is that it is one. If you wish to be unblocked I would seriously suggest that you re-word your unblock request, including in the re-vamped wording a commitment not to write about yourself. I feel that without this undertaking an unblock is unlikely. --Anthony Bradbury"talk" 17:46, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 18:29, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 18:29, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Take my word for it; you're not going to have a Wikipedia article about yourself..Wikipedia isn't designed in a manner that would allow it..but you should definitely complete your project/your write up about yourself and find places online (dance related sites) that would be glad to have it..you're also not going to be unblocked as things are going...honestly, just forget Wikipedia..it's not a big deal...you'll be much happier and less aggravated if you just "get on down the road" as you said..Respectfully, 68.48.241.158 (talk) 18:52, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 19:24, 29 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I'll get on down the road. I really appreciate your respectful comments.  I'm sorry that Wikipedia people don't know me as other people do throughout the world.  I provide dancers with an outstanding http://www.DanceDictionary.com plus many more free dance web sites.

LeonRaper 19:24, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Signature help etc
LeonRaper 10:53, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 10:53, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I got your email. You need to remove the  from your signature in Preferences. They are tags which made what I suggested you change your signature to display properly on the talk page, you can see how I had to use two pairs of tags to make them display here too. Thank you for working to clean up your signature and have an enjoyable Memorial Day.  J bh  Talk  11:52, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 13:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper talk


 * I hope I got it correct this time

LeonRaper 13:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Ooppss... I messed up LeonRaper should be Leon Raper (here is what your signature should look like when it is set up properly - Leon Raper talk 13:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC) - sorry. Also, there is no need to be putting LeonRaper 13:01, 30 May 2016 (UTC) at the beginning and end of posts. You are indenting stuff between those properly though. Thank you for that.
 * Hmmm... something is not right here. I am not getting links to your user and talk page. Would one of the other page watchers please take a look. I must be doing something dumb. This - Jbhunley talk works so why does Leon Raper talk not?????

LeonRaper 14:07, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I think the current problem with my name is that I changed it from Leon Raper to LeonRaper which it was originally.

LeonRaper 14:07, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Would you do me a favor and type a reply to this post as you normaly would but include it between nowiki tags? Like this

(write your reply normaly including how you sign)
 * J bh Talk  14:29, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I got your email. I'm answering here so others who know more than I can jump in.... Yes, the tags, like nowiki are used to make things show up properly on the screen - nowiki keeps the page renderer from processing anything between the nowiki \nowiki tags (note I am omitting the for tags so I do not have to keep nowiking them). Also, yes all of that stuff in my signature is just HTML formatting to make it look the way it does - (I should come up with another sig since Microsoft seems to have removed the fonts I use from new Office distributions and I bet most people do not have them) The pages WP:HTML, HELP:Wiki markup and HELP:Cheatsheet are good places to start. HELP:Wikipedia: The Missing Manual may be useful too. There is a lot of information to absorb about Wikipedia it can be overwhelming and no one knows it all. The best ways to learn is to see how other editors do things and copy them or, as you are doing, ask. Cheers.  J bh  Talk  14:25, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 14:44, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I hope this is what you mean communicating between nowiki tags


 * I'm not sure what you mean by the following

(write your reply normaly including how you sign)

LeonRaper 14:44, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The tags you do not see on the normal talk page are just for formatting and you should not use them. Just use what you see on the screen. What I am trying to see is how you are getting:
 * Leon Raper 14:44, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Your reply
 * Leon Raper 14:44, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * What you should be getting is:
 * Your reply Leon Raper talk 14:44, 30 May 2016 (UTC))
 * The way you should get that is when you type (Remember only type what you see on the talk page not what you see in the edit window)
 * Are you typing
 * Your reply
 * No need to answer in between nowiki, I was just wanting to see the raw text of what you were typing. My thought is you are doing the second when you should be doing the first. J bh  Talk  15:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Your reply
 * No need to answer in between nowiki, I was just wanting to see the raw text of what you were typing. My thought is you are doing the second when you should be doing the first. J bh  Talk  15:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * No need to answer in between nowiki, I was just wanting to see the raw text of what you were typing. My thought is you are doing the second when you should be doing the first. J bh  Talk  15:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)
 * No need to answer in between nowiki, I was just wanting to see the raw text of what you were typing. My thought is you are doing the second when you should be doing the first. J bh  Talk  15:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

~

Wikipedia is very complicated. I have written thousands of things in HTML. Before that I wrote everything in dBase. Before that it was Fortran.


 * Complicated,

~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by LeonRaper (talk • contribs)
 * Great! Thank you. I see what you are doing (and you used the tags properly). You should be writing your comments as illuestrated in my first example above so your last comment should have been written like this:


 * Wikipedia is very complicated. I have written thousands of things in HTML.  Before that I wrote everything in dBase.  Before that it was Fortran.


 * Complicated, ~


 * I need to step away for a bit but you are making great progress. Hopefully someone here can help us now figure out why the wikilinks to your user and talk page are not showing up in your signature. Thank you for being willing to work on this. I believe there is a lot you could contribute to here once you get the hang of things. Cheers. J bh  Talk  15:47, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 15:59, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much for your help.

LeonRaper 15:59, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I think no-one has mentioned this; at the top of the edit window (the place where your edits are typed) you will see a row of icons and the words "advanced", "special characters", "help" and "cite". One of the icons is a graphic depicting a pencil; if you click on this icon at the conclusion of your creation of a talk-page edit it will automatically add your signature and the time and date of the edit. It does the same thing as typing ~ but is slightly easier. Note that it is usual to sign only at the end of a post, not the beginning as well.--Anthony Bradbury"talk" 20:52, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 21:22, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Great information. I'll definitely use it. I wish they would remove the block from my Draft:LeonRaper page. I need to be able to edit the page using some of the new stuff I have learned.

--LeonRaper 21:22, 30 May 2016 (UTC)


 * LeonRaper: I see that and  have been trying to help you with your signature. I've asked about this at WP:VP/T to see if someone there can determine whether there is actually a technical reason (e.g., a bug or something) which is causing the problem. A lot of editors familiar with the nuts and bolts of how the Wikipedia software works frequent that noticeboard, so perhaps one of them can figure it out or at least determine if just user error. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:35, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * It seems you have to reset your signature on your Special:Preferences page. There's a section titled "Signature" on the "User profile" tab that might need a box checked or unchecked. Unfortunately, it appears you have to be unblocked to edit that page and I'm not sure if an administrator can access that information and do it for you. -- Marchjuly (talk) 05:47, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Last bit of friendly advice
Hi LeonRaper. Nobody has blocked/protected the draft from editing. Any editor in good standing can still edit it. What has happened, however, is that your account has been blocked from editing any Wikipedia page other than this talk page. (Sorry if the bold was a bit dramatic, but I wanted to make that point clear) Unfortunately, you are unlikely to be unblocked by an administrator as long as you keep posting stuff such as I wish they would remove the block from my Draft:LeonRaper page. I need to be able to edit the page using some of the new stuff I have learned which indicates that you intend to keep trying write about yourself if you are unblocked. You've made two unblock requests and each has been declined because the concerned administrator remains convinced is that your only interest in Wikipedia is using it to let others know about you and your endeavors. , the administrator who declined your last unblock request, wrote Your time would be better spent on pursuits other than trying to create a Wikipedia article about yourself, so you need to convince administrators that you are no longer interested in using Wikipedia to try and promote yourself. I know you don't see it at that way, but you need to be concerned with how administrators and other editors see it. It would probably not be an exaggeration to say that hundreds of accounts are indefinitely blocked by administrators daily for the same reason and that administrators will continue to block such accounts in the future as long as the Wikipedia community feels that doing so is to its benefit. So, you need to give administrators a reason to give you another chance by showing them that you understand why you were blocked and stating that you will not repeat the mistakes that got your account blocked in the first place. What they are telling you is to leave the draft alone and (as you say) "get on down the road". You may not agree with this and it may not seem fair, but the only way I see an administrator agreeing to unblock you is if you unequivocally agree to stop from working on your draft and to stop trying to adding content about yourself to other Wikipedia articles. As I've said before, there are plenty of ways for editors to positively contribute to Wikipedia that have nothing to do with creating/editing content about themselves of people/things they are connected to. Try and figure out some other ways you can positively contribute to Wikipedia because that's what the administrators want to hear from you. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:06, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 01:44, 31 May 2016 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your message. You are a good person.  I am not going to do any other work on Wikipedia other than my page.  And since they won't let me in there I guess it is hosta la bye bye.  NObody listens to me.  Wikipedia volunteers beat the our of me with over 500 negative messages back and forth with me before they even knew I was.

--LeonRaper 01:44, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Speaking from Wikipedia's perspective, the problem is not that Wikipedia isn't listening to you and knows nothing about you; the problem is that you are not listening to Wikipedia and know nothing about it. Again you might not see it this way, but that's essentially why you have been blocked. It is unlikely there would have been a need for 500 messages back and forth between you and other editors, if you would have just slowed down a bit and made more of an attempt to "hear" what was being "said". When an administrator blocks you per WP:NOTHERE and another administrator cites WP:IDIDNTHERETHAT when he declines your unblock request, they are both telling you that your failure or refusal to "get the point" of what has been said in those 500 plus messages has reached the point where it had become disruptive so it needed to be stopped. Since you s l h owed no indication of being willing to stop of your own accord, an administrator stepped in and blocked you on behalf of the community. That's the simplest way I am able to explain it and, as I posted before, you need to convince an administrator that this is no longer the case if you have any interest at all in being unblocked someday. -- Marchjuly (talk) 02:24, 31 May 2016 (UTC); [Post edited by Marchjuly to correct spelling error -- 23:14, 1 June 2016 (UTC)]

LeonRaper 02:37, 31 May 2016 (UTC) Hi Marchjuly, I am sorry I am not going to do any more. If you want the over 500 messages sent back and forth then give me a real email address to send them to. I'm done. Thank you for all your help. --LeonRaper 02:37, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 10:57, 31 May 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, I don't know how to respond to the question about my name change. What I did is try to rename User:Leon Raper to User:LeonRaper.  I hope that worked. I don't speak Wikipedia very well.

--LeonRaper 10:57, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 16:41, 1 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I have 3 new domain names I am willing to transfer free to Skippy Blair's web site developer if they want them. The domain names are:
 * SwingDanceHallOfFame.com
 * WorldSwingDanceHallOfFame.com
 * WorldSwingDanceCouncilHallOfFame.com

--LeonRaper 16:41, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Sadly I think it's time that talk page access was revoked, obviously WP:NOTHERE. Theroadislong (talk) 16:56, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 17:47, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm sorry you have to do that. That eliminates any conversations I can have with Wikipedia. I was just trying to help Skippy who I have known for over 50 years. I know you are working on her Wikipedia page.

--LeonRaper 17:47, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 00:20, 2 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I read your comment on User talk:LeonRaper: Difference between revisions. However, please tell me what you would do if you were me, and had over 300 (Not 500) negative comments from 40 Wikipedia people telling you that "you were not notable" before they ever knew who you were?  They all had their minds made up.  And, they all ganged up on me, and I got angry.


 * Wikipedia indicates if people write books that get published, they "are notable." I have two manor books published on the internet.  They are:


 * WhoWhoInSwingDance.com ,,, This book took me over one year to write doing massive research with many dancers who are already dead. This book goes back to 1929. It gave other dance writers information about dance that they wouldn't have gotten somewhere else.  I did a great deal of my research with a famous dancer Shirley Fietsam.  Shirley had massive dance history files.


 * DanceDictionary.com ... Which also took a massive amount of time writing. I did all this by myself - a massive amount of work.


 * Then we come to my other items on my Draft:Leon Raper Wikipedia page. I assume with me dancing over 400 competitions(including the 1974 World Swing Dance Championships), starting 3 different dance clubs, receiving two "Hall of Fame Awards, etc.  I am still not notable.  Funny isn't it, I am notable to people throughout the world.


 * I also provided Wikipedia ten Referemces, of which only five were entered on my page. How about dancing in thee "Queen Of The Stardust Ballroom" movie which was accepted on another person's Wikipedia page.


 * However, I realize there is nothing I can do about. Most of your people will stick with their "not notable" decision.


 * I am sorry, I will not accept anyone telling me "I am not acceptable," especially in the Swing Dance World"


 * I wish you all well. At 80 years old I am going go have a Margarita and then take a nap

--LeonRaper 00:20, 2 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 15:26, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Please see the World Swing Dance Council web site at: http://www.worldsdc.com/swinging-links/
 * You will see the following listing: Raper’s Dance Corner “The largest site on the web related to swing dance.”
 * Am I Notable yet?

--LeonRaper 15:26, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 22:52, 4 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Hi Theroadislong. I think you owe me an answer to the question I sent you on June 2, 2016. Repeat Question:  Please tell me what you would do if you were me, and had over 300 (Not 500) negative comments from 40 Wikipedia people telling you that "you were not notable" before they ever knew who you were?  They all had their minds made up.  And, they all ganged up on me, and I got angry.


 * I am sorry, I will not accept anyone telling me "I am not notable," especially when they don't know me. Please review the following:


 * In my late teens I played lead guitar on two official record recordings in California. I was also close friends with Eddie Cochran before he died.


 * In engineering, at Rockwell in California, I designed the digital multiplexer in the computer of the Minuteman Missile. I also designed the logrhythmic digital to analog converter for the worlds first digital organ for Allen Organ Company.  The plans were later stolen by Japan.


 * I received 5 patents for my work in engineering at Rockwell. Two were mine, the other three were shared with other engineers.


 * I started my own business ,at age 40, as a Talent Agent in Beverly Hills California - Raper Enterprises Agency. My business in California was there for ten years.  I was licensed by SAG, AFTRA, and many other unions. I represented many very notable actors and actresses.  One of them was one of the top three ladies in TV on "General Hospital."


 * I moved my business, Raper Enterprises, Inc. to Flagstaff, AZ. I booked film and TV stars into personal appearance events all over the U.S> and Canada.  I am still doing that after 0ver 30 years in Arizona.  The business is now called Vegas Celebrity Booking Service.


 * I also have the largest dance web sites on the internet, including two books I wrote online. They are enjoyed by people all over the world.


 * I have been dancing for over 50 years. I have danced in over 400 swing dance competitions, including the World Swing Dance Championships at the Palladium in Hollywood, CA.  I also danced in the "Queen Of The Stardust Ballroom" movie.


 * I have received two Swing Dance Hall of Fame awards.


 * I think more than one person at Wikipedia owes me an apology for their inappropriate comments to me.


 * Please respond to this message.

--LeonRaper 22:52, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Please read the general notability guide I'm afraid you come no where near passing it, it's nothing personal, but as far as Wikipedia is concerned you are not notable enough for an article. I suggest you drop the stick. Theroadislong (talk) 07:15, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 20:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)--LeonRaper 20:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks for responding. It is not nice to know Wikipedia thinks, "I am not notable enough for an article."  However, I want to find out what  the rest of the world thinks.  Am I "not notable" or am I "notable."


 * To find out, I'll just add a note related to this subject in all my world wide dance sites and ask for an opinion from others. Sorry, but I'll have to also include the massive list of negative comments I have received from Wikipedia.  Hopefully people throughout the rest of the world will indicate that I am notable.  I wish I didn't have to do this.


 * I am not trying to be a pain in the . I just want an answer from others.

--LeonRaper 20:18, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Do what you will elsewhere, it makes no difference to the decisions made here although if you intend to ask people to lobby for an article on you please read WP:MEAT. Please know we, as editors and Wikipedia as a concept, are here to document knowledge based upon very specific minimum criteria, not for your ego gratification and that is all this seems to be to you. You have done many good things but like many tens of thousands of people who have done good things you have not been recognized by the media in the ways required by Wikipedia policies to merit an article. I have looked for coverage on you - hell my family, who are not Wikepedians but thought you had done some good stuff looked for good coverage (one even thinks they recognized you from movies - neat but meaningless from a WP:N point of view) - none was found. I am sorry to say there is nothing more to do or say on the subject. Barring new significant coverage consensus among the many editors here is that you simply do not qualify for a Wikipedia article. You must now accept that, it may not be fair, but it is the way things are. I have enjoyed learning more about swing dance and I have seen some great dancing researching this and I thank you for giving me a reason to look into that world. It is, however, time for you to move on to other endeavors and I wish you success and happiness in those things.  J bh  Talk  20:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 22:08, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I am sorry, I am not sending anything to the rest of the world. I just got angry again from the previous message.  I just have to accept your opinions.  You guys already deleted many of my major accomplishments.


 * In addition to dancing try going into business for yourself and see how far you get. Please see the following:


 * Author and publisher[edit]

Raper has published many items on the internet.

SwingDance.com DanceDictionary.com WhosWhoInSwingDance.com WorldDanceInfo.com MastersOfSwingDance.com (Videos) DanceCorner.com NightclubSwing.com BalboaDanceCorner.com BallroomDanceCorner.com CharlestonDanceCorner.com LindyHopDanceCorner.com ShagDanceCorner.com


 * Association memberships[edit]

World Swing Dance Council (WSDC) Los Angeles Swing Dance Club (LASDC) - Charter Member Greater Phoenix Swing Dance Club (GPSDC) California Swing Dance Club (CSDC) Competition Swing Dancers Association National Teachers Association (NTA) United Country Western Dance Council (UCWDC) Country Western Line Dance Association (CWLDA) Golden State Dance Association (GSDA) Screen Actors Guild (SAG) American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA) Writers Guild of America (WGA) American Federation of Musicians Local 47 (AFM) American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP) Broadcast Music, Inc. (BMI)
 * For many years I was licensed by the following in the film, TV & music industries

Screen Actors Guild (SAG) American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA) Writers Guild of America (WGA) American Federation of Musicians Local 47 (AFM) American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers (ASCAP) Broadcast Music, Inc. (BMI)


 * Also see:

Getting Started - 1960's Early in 1967 I saw an advertisement from a dance studio in Anaheim California. They had an introductory offer of five lessons for $25 and the dance instructor was beautiful. Like so many newcomers to dance, I was convinced I could learn all there was to know about social dance in the five lessons. After about the third lesson, I was beginning to realized that learning dance was a little more challenging than I thought. When they tried to get me to sign a $2,000 contract for dance lessons I quit the studio, but I didn't quit dance. I was hooked. I then joined a ballroom dance class at Dale's Dance Studio in Whittier California. It was there I spent two nights per week, 2 hours per night, for over 1-1/2 years learning most of the ballroom dances which included West Coast Swing. I also went out dancing many nights per week trying to perfect my skills as a dancer. My arts background, being a musician for many years, gave me the desire to become a good dancer. However, my engineering and computers background made me want to really understand the mechanics of movement and be able to write dance. During this time period I was also going ballroom dancing at the Golden West Ballroom in Downey, CA. That is where I was lucky enough to meet Skippy Blair. I started attending her lessons and workshops and found that her Universal Units System was exactly what I had been looking for. Working with Skippy and learning her Universal Units System provided me with excellent techniques for writing dance and helped me develop a real understanding of the mechanics movement. From this I became a real dance techno-junkie allowing me to rapidly expand my knowledge and abilities with advanced forms of dance. I also studied with many other highly recognized dancers in the business including Dean Collins, Jack & Teddy Pina, Willie Desatoff, Kenny Wetzel and many others. In addition I attended many dance workshops with top instructors. In 1968, one evening after the dance class was over at Dale's Dance Studio, Dale took the dance class to see a swing dance contest at Stan's Night Club in Downey California. It was the most exciting thing I ever saw. The World Swing Dance Champions (Pat & Darleene) happened to be dancing that night along with some of the best swing dancers in California. While the World Champs were dancing, Pat put Darleene into a triple shoulder spin like a propeller spinning three times around his shoulder. I was so impressed by everyone's dancing that I decided that is what I wanted to do with my life. So, I began entering contests and spent several years and danced over 400 contests against the same people. It took me two years of hard work to develop that triple shoulder spin, but I finally perfected it - including a great deal of other competition dancing material. In 1968 I joined the California Swing Dance Club that met at Stan's Night Club in Downey, CA. In 1969 I became a founding charter member (#17) of the Los Angeles Swing Dance Club. I also became very active in the development of the club's bylaws. I am still a charter member of the LASDC today.

1970's - 1980's May 1971, I started writing and publishing the "Jitterbug Newsletter" with the intent that it would be a central point of communications for the swing dance community throughout the U.S. It was printed and mailed free to anyone in the U.S. that wanted it -- at my own expense. The mailing list was to over 500 swing dancers. The final issue was published in May of 1975. July 7, 1973 my partner and I danced in the World Championship Swing Dance Contest at the Palladium in Hollywood, CA. We didn't win, but it was great dancing to Les Brown's Band in front of over 2,000 people. January 1974, I wrote the book "Professional Competition Dancing." At that time, as far as I know, it was the only book ever written on judging and scoring techniques for competition dancing. Mid 1974, I founded the "Jitterbug Club of America" which held its dances in the Off Broadway West at the Grand Hotel in Anaheim, CA and later at Alias Smith & Jones in Santa Ana, CA. My out of pocket cost was over $5,000 to keep the club going. 1974-1985, I just went dancing for the enjoyment of it and honed my dance techno-junkie skills by studying advanced forms of dance and teaching private lessons. I was also a judge for many dance competitions. 1985, I moved to Flagstaff Arizona and started teaching dance classes -- sometimes three classes per week and mostly west coast swing. Since then I have also taught classes Sedona, Cottonwood, Camp Verde, Beaver Creek and Phoenix Arizona for the Greater Phoenix Swing Dance Club.

1990's Early 1993 was the start of my Internet listing of all the swing dance clubs throughout the world. I still update the site on a regular basis. The web site also now contains links to a great deal of other dance information. This was in the early days of the Internet, with primitive browsers and editors. All the code had to be written in HTML by hand. October 1993, I founded the Flagstaff Swing Dance Club, Inc. in Flagstaff, AZ and served as president and dance instructor until October 1995 after which I turned it over to a new board of directors. The club still meets on a weekly basis. Early 1994, I founded the Swing Dance Research and Historical Association (SDRHA). The association goal is to gather information pertaining to the history of Swing Dance. The results of the association research are published on the Internet. 1995, I published my book Who's Who in Swing Dance on the Internet. The book gives long overdue recognition to those who have contributed the most to the art, science and betterment of Swing Dance. The book covers the period from the late 1920s (when the Charleston was making its transition to the Lindy Hop) to the present. Today there are several web sites containing this type of information, but mine was first on the Internet. 1998, I published my book Raper's Dance Dictionary on the Internet. The book includes the definition of many terms used for social dancing. It also indicates if there are different interpretations for some terms and what each interpretation is. It goes much further than a normal dictionary. It is really an encyclopedia of social dance.

2000 to Current January 2000, I founded the Verde Valley Swing Dance Club in Camp Verde, AZ. However, there wasn't enough support so the club folded. Early 2005 I started taking lessons in International Standard and American Smooth Ballroom Dancing. Early 2007 I studied International Standard with John Berry -- one of the most knowledgeable dance coaches that I have ever met. I also studied for many years with the great National dance instructor Jenell Maranto. September 2008 California Swing Dance Hall of Fame, Golden Star Nomination. September 2010 California Swing Dance Hall of Fame, Golden Star Award. September 2015 World Swing Dance Hall of Fame, Special Recognition Award


 * If that is still "not notable" then I'll just go and jump out of a basement window (bad joke)


 * I have worked my off my entire life trying to help others. I'll stop there.  I have a tendency to talk too much.

--LeonRaper 22:08, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
 * This is pointless. You have squandered an immense amount of goodwill and effort - more than I have ever seen for a new editor trying to write an article about themself. I, like all of the other people who have tried to help you, am done here. J bh  Talk  22:34, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 22:59, 5 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Not one of you have tried to help me. Every one of you have told me "I am not notable." Many of you have deleted all the stuff from my page that would have made me "notable."  You have not "squandered  an immense amount of goodwill and effort." Not one of you have tried to help me. You have removed from my page all information that would make me notable.  I guess everything I have done, and written about, that would make me "notable," has just jumped over all of your heads.  Would anyone of you wake up and help me.


 * The imdb.com STARmeter has me up to 531,739 this week.

--LeonRaper 00:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 15:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Look at http://www.vegas88.com ... This is my "Vegas Celebrity Booking Service" business that I started over 40 years ago. On the right side of the page are links to all the TV & film celebrities I have booked into TV, Films and personal appearances over many years.  This is my income producing business which I have no intention of placing on my dance draft web page.  I just wanted to let you know that "I am notable."

--LeonRaper 15:09, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 20:17, 7 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Would you allow me to add the following to my External Links listings:


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_(dance)


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindy_Hop


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Lindy_Hop


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy-style_Lindy_Hop


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood-style_Lindy_Hop


 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jitterbug


 * http://www.Swingdance.com


 * http://www.MastersOfSwingDance.com


 * http://www.DanceDictionary.com


 * http://www.WhosWhoInSwingDance.com


 * http://www.StreetSwing.com


 * I would really appreciate it

--LeonRaper 20:17, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 20:38, 7 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I respectfully ask Wikipeia people to stop saying a "person is not notable." That is a very negative thing to say to anyone.  Instead, I would suggest that you start stating "the article is not notable."  I am definitely "notable."  However, based on your limited review, my article may "not be notable" in your opinion.  Please send this message to your Administrators.

--LeonRaper 20:38, 7 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I completely disagree with my Wikipedia page being deleted. I also disagree with Wikipedia not allowing me to revise the content of my page.


 * I will soon send you a link to the new page the way I know it should have been accepted. I have created it on one of my web sites.  I'll send you the new link in a few days.  Hopefully you will learn that "I am notable."


 * Wikipedia has removed so much stuff from my page that it is no wonder it is "not notable"

--LeonRaper 23:33, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 00:21, 9 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I have prepared a re-draft of my Wikipedia page. It is located on my web site http://www.WikiSwingDance.com


 * I think it is well prepared and I would appreciate your comments.


 * If you don't want to talk about it then I'll just say hasta la bye bye.

--LeonRaper 00:21, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 17:30, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

I wish you would make a correction to the term RAPER in all its references in Wikipedia. The name RAPER comes from England. One definition is "Makers of Rope." Please see the following definition:
 * http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/raper/713/

--LeonRaper 17:30, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 20:31, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Would someone please send this message to BethNaught. I can't do it any other way because they have my Draft:Leon Raper page blocked and they won't let me edit or talk to anyone except through this page:


 * I have prepared a re-draft of my recommended Wikipedia page on my web site http://www.WikiSwingDance.com
 * I think it is well prepared and I would appreciate comments.

Would someone at Wikipedia please help me?

--LeonRaper 20:31, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

MfD nomination of Draft:Leon Raper
Draft:Leon Raper, a page which you created or substantially contributed to, has been nominated for deletion. Your opinions on the matter are welcome; you may participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Draft:Leon Raper and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You are free to edit the content of Draft:Leon Raper during the discussion but should not remove the miscellany for deletion template from the top of the page; such a removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you. J bh Talk  22:53, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 21:27, 9 June 2016 (UTC)


 * It is really interesting how Wikipedia is handling my issue regarding deleting me. You have me blocked from editing.  I can't even enter the deleting discussion.  You just ignore me like I was a bad baby that you lock in a closet.


 * You aren't listening to me. I haven't been able to edit my draft page for a very long time. Also, you all deleted so much stuff from my page that you are right, the page should be deleted.  However I have another solution as follows,


 * You gave me no choice. I had to create what I think is a good web page at http://www.WikiSwingDance.com ... I have mentioned this several times on this talk page, but no one at Wikipedia responds.  You still have me locked in the closet.


 * I hope you are all having fun gaming with me. You don't want a solution.  You would like to keep harassing me.  Isn't it Fun?


 * I would really appreciate it if you all would stop acting like little kids and solve the problem. I know what you will do now.  You will just kick me out of Wikipedia.  Wouldn't that be fun? you all win.  I think you should all go to your Proctologist for Psychological counselling.


 * Is it possible you could all start working in an adult world and stop acting like little kids.


 * Here's your chance. Start acting like adults or please transfer me up the ladder to someone is an adult.


 * You all should be ashamed of yourselves.

--LeonRaper 21:27, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
 * You've expended everyone's good faith in dealing with you, and comments like the above will just end up with your talk page editing privileges being revoked as well. Please stop and re-read all of the information that has been supplied to you. You do not, in my own and that of the majority of the editors here, meet the notability criteria. Calling us little kids isn't going to improve your chances of anyone trying to help you again -- samtar talk or stalk 21:49, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 22:40, 9 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Why hasn't anyone looked at, and commented on, my recommended revised proposed web page at http://www.WikiSwingDance.com? I am still trying to get a proposed new page commented on.  You won't let me do it on  Wikipedia, so I have to do it somewhere else.


 * Let's stop playing games. Work like anyone would in business.  Solve the problems or get on down the road.  Blocking is a stupid way to negotiate.  The solution is your choice. (1) Solve the problem or (2)Completely remove me from Wikipedia, including deleting everything so nobody can see anything I had there.

--LeonRaper 22:40, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 22:53, 9 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Isn't it interesting Samtar. You can write about yourself in Wikipedia, but all the volunteers have told me that I can't do this. See below:


 * What I've created[edit]
 * Roccat Browser
 * Church of Saint Winwaloe, Gunwalloe
 * 1976 IMF Crisis
 * Pompano Platform
 * List of tallest oil platforms in the world
 * Benguela-Belize Lobito-Tomboco Platform
 * Cesar Ritter
 * William J Tarling


 * Who I am and what I do[edit]
 * I am a BSc Computer Science graduate from the University of Portsmouth in the UK.
 * I am myrcx on IRC. My nicknames are protected with Nickserv.
 * I am a sysadmin, web developer and general programmer.
 * I help develop The Wikipedia Adventure.
 * I spend a lot of time developing over at WikiTech.
 * I am a mentor for Wikimedia in this year's Google Summer of Code (see more info)

--LeonRaper 22:53, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 00:26, 10 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I think you should look at http://www.WikiSwingDance.com/
 * And click on "Ask Wikipedia: Am I Notable?"

--LeonRaper 00:26, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Enough is Enough
This is really getting out of hand, editor clearly does not understand Wikipedia and what we do here. Despite all the help, this editor seems content on bad mouthing other editors when he doesn't get his way. He is misunderstanding policy, leading to rants like the one directly above. Editors are allowed to put some content on their user page, so Samtar does not deserve to be attacked for pointing out the obvious fact that talk page access should be revoked, and it should be noted that Samtar is a volunteer, just like everyone else here, so the "move up the ladder" argument is getting old. There is a very good reason why editors are not commenting on what you wrote on your website, it's because Wikipedia talk pages are for discussing Wikipedia, not for discussing what an editor posts on other sites. You say we should all be ashamed of ourselves. Other editors spent weeks trying to help you, even when it became obvious nothing would work, editors continued to try to help. There is no editor who should be ashamed of anything they did here. 47.54.149.147 (talk) 01:00, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I think it is that time. He is starting to throw abuse and has shown he is incapable of understanding that he does not qualify for a Wikipedia article. He is now campaigning for meat puppets off site. He is not using his talk page access to discuss a path to being unblocked but rather to continue to press his hopeless case. Whether this is a simple case of stubbornness or a deeper CIR issue does not matter. J bh  Talk  01:26, 10 June 2016 (UTC)


 * We all know he does not understand why he's not notable; it's been explained often enough. This user keeps butting his head up against the same brick wall, and the wall isn't budging. But I don't feel like revoking TPA--I don't see much abuse (though I may have missed it in the million words above). Please ping anyone else and I won't object if they disagree. Mr. Raper, I don't understand how you don't understand that a. you're not notable; b. it doesn't matter how many websites you wrote up; c. Who's Who is nothing at all, just a vanity publication; d. it may be unfair that some idiot who comments on videos on YouTube is notable while you, a fabulous dancer, are not, but it is equally unfair that I haven't been asked for the Playgirl centerfold yet--and I don't waste my time trying to convince the internet of the fact. It's time to drop it, which would be more graceful than another admin coming by to revoke talk page access. Drmies (talk) 02:24, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for giving it a look. I asked for your opinion and got it... not going to admin shop just because I disagree. Cheers! J bh  Talk  02:48, 10 June 2016 (UTC)


 * (Uninvited opinion) God bless Mr Raper for his contributions to American culture. If editors would cease posting here any disruption would vaporize. If there exists any hope of rehabilitation (in a Wikipedia sense) then I say full speed ahead. However, my observation tells me that this is a fool's errand. Those that have made their effort, I salute you. It's time to fish or cut bait, though. My suggestion is that, collectively, we move on to tasks that actually accomplish the aims of this project. I'm old, too. That's no excuse for ignoring the advice of the more experienced amongst us. It's time to close this subject and move on. My two cents.  Tide  rolls  03:39, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 14:39, 10 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Jbhunley, you just wrote that, "I (Jbhunley) don't understand how you (Raper) don't understand that a. you're not notable ; b. it doesn't matter how many websites you wrote up; c. Who's Who is nothing at all, just a vanity publication ; ..." Please see your full comments at: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LeonRaper&oldid=prev&diff=724572547


 * Your recent comments make it very clear that you know nothing whatsoever about dancing, and those who committed their lives to it. You are not qualified to be giving your opinion on anything related to dance.


 * I am a Researcher on dance information. I don't write paper books.  I provide information on many web sites to help other writers and dancers.


 * Please look at my site, http://www.MastersOfSwingDance.com/ ... Videos of famous dancers from 1929 to 1959.


 * Most of these dancers are listed in my web site, http://www.WhosWhoInSwingDance.com/


 * My site, http://DanceDictionary.com ... is a very detailed description of dance techniques


 * All of my dance information is free on the internet


 * Now, would other Wikipedia reviewers like to stand up and provide more comments? However, you better know what you are talking about.

--LeonRaper 14:39, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Well first off the comments you linked were from not me. But I do agree with them, you may be notable within your community but you are not notable the way Wikipedia defines notable and nothing you have said here changes that. Nothing short of something like an article about you published in a major metropolitan or regional newspaper will do that. Anyway I have no further need nor desire to further engage with you. I am truely sorry you feel slighted but you can either a) get over it b) continue to complain pointlessly here c) become insulting and abusive and loose access to thei page and any chance of presenting new material written by third parties d) go out and find a major metropolitan or regional newspaper Arts/Style reporter who wants to write about you and get something published. You have done some cool stuff within your community. Be satisfied with that. Go dance or contribute further to your community. Continuing on the path you have set out on here will lead to nothing but bitterness and disappointment  for you - I can see it in your recent posts. Now, as I said earlier, I am done here unless and until you become more abusive in your posts. Please have an enjoyable weekend.  J bh  Talk  15:22, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 19:54, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

I request that my Draft:Leon Raper page be completely removed from Wikipedia. None of your reviewers will ever approve the page for publication in Wikipedia. No more games!!!

--LeonRaper 19:54, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

LeonRaper 23:27, 11 June 2016 (UTC)


 * Isn't it entertaining that you keep telling me that I am not notable when others throughout the world think I am. Please see my new web site at:
 * http://www.WikiSwingDance.com ... there is no way you would ever approve this page.


 * Also, as I said before, Please remove my Draft:Leon Raper page from Wikipedia. I would like to have this removed soon.  You can also remove any back and forth comments we have had.

--LeonRaper 23:27, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Draft deleted
I have deleted your draft as you requested. Can you please now refrain from using this talk page except for formulating proper unblock requests (should you wish to be unblocked)? --Neil N  talk to me 23:48, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Please stop sending me emails
You have used up all of my good will. Your article has been deleted - at your request. Drop it. This guy is just not getting it, he as moved from complaining on his talk page to complaining via email-this-user. J bh Talk  12:24, 15 June 2016 (UTC)


 * I have to agree, do not send me any more emails either. Jbhunley, even if we removed his ability to send emails through the system, that wouldn't stop him as he has both of our emails.  -- GB fan 12:36, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * I only ever replied to his emails via talk page. Abundance of caution when dealing with new/promotional editors :) J bh  Talk  12:45, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, I know he has mine and he has emailed me also. -- GB fan 12:51, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Crap... You are right. I had to email him to get his PDFs.... I really can not think in the mornings.... Oh well.... J bh  Talk  13:02, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * That is how he got my email address also. -- GB fan 13:06, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Reblocked with email and talk page access removed as there are probably others getting the same complaints. LeonRaper, you can use WP:UTRS if you wish to submit a block appeal. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 12:55, 15 June 2016 (UTC) --UTRSBot (talk) 13:31, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * He has another request, #15838, also. -- GB fan 13:53, 15 June 2016 (UTC)
 * He also has another request via OTRS 2016061710015859. &mdash; Music1201  talk  04:29, 18 June 2016 (UTC)

--UTRSBot (talk) 21:53, 23 June 2016 (UTC)