User talk:Leroy65X/Archive/Archive 03 ./Archive Sep 2007

Hezbollah
Salam. How are you?

You've added some sentences in this article without any reliable source. That article is extremely controversial and each part should have separate reference. Please complete your edition. God bless you.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 10:09, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Supporters maintain the main source of its income comes from donations by Muslims. Do you have any source for this claim?-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 15:59, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Template of Ruhollah Khomeini
Salam. What's your idea about this template? Do you agree on the deletion. -- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 13:12, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the template: Ruhollah Khomeini-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 15:57, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you mean the pros and cons?-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 16:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * the reasons why someone would want to delete it (pros) and the reasons why they would not (cons). --Leroy65X 16:38, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I want to delete it because there are just 2 articles in it. I'll make a template about Islamic revolution which contains these articles as well as some others in future. We can see cons after making AfD. I just want to consult with you.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 16:52, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't insist on it if you want to make some more articles about this issue. Also I can ask some of my wikipedian friends like Aminz to help you with this, if it doesn't bother you.  I propose to make an article about his religious thought and legacy. Because I think most people in west misunderstood him and they can't believe his reforms in Shi'a jurisprudence. Can you please write your idea in this case:Talk:Allegations of apartheid-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 17:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Political thought and legacy
I make an edition in your soapbox and I hope it will be useful. How great would be if you could read Persian or Arabic!-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 17:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think there is a mistake in your approach. You start from political thought and jurisprudence and move toward theological and philosophical thought but Khomeini was a theologian and teacher of Islamic philosophy when he was younger, while you've written Khomeini was also very involved in less philosophical, more temporal issues.. Then his students especially Motahhari persuaded him to become a Marja to have more effect in the society. You should look for the base of his idea about martyrdom in his spiritual interpretation of Islam. I guess you reach to academicians if you are not one of them. So you can them to describe this aspect of Islam for you. Then you can understand better his ideas. Have you ever seen these works, , ,  and -- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 18:34, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I want to mention there is wide differences between who are basically jurisprudent and know something about mysticism and philosophy with people who basically sufi, philosoph and then become jurisprudent. They have different approach in using reason in Ijtihad. Another important issue is the combination of mysticism and philosophy in Shia. Khomeini and Naraqi both taught ethics but you can find extremely different approach in their works. I want to mention we should emphasize on his approach which helps us with understanding his innovations in Shia Fiqh.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:35, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I added theological and historical background in your soapbox. I hope it will be useful.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 05:32, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The major problem for me is lack of available English references. I guess you can find some good printed sources in English and then I can help you with them.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 14:56, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's hard for me to translate technical words especially about Sufism. For example I don't how can translate "Erfan-e Setiz" in English. -- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 15:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

If we really want to do wrathful work we should use the works of Hossein Nasr and his son Vali Nasr. They're the best person which I known in this case. Unfortunately I don't have the English version of their books like. But I can help you with it if you can get some of their works. If not, I prefer not to write weak article in a technical case.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 15:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC) I mean worthy but I type incorrectly.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 18:19, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Islamic revival
Salam. dear Leroy,

Please check this article. I made it today and we can try to improve it.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 13:54, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Another image
Salam. This image may be deleted so I've found another one. What's your idea about it?-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 10:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * There is another discussion about copyright and reliability of the other picture of that article:Images and media for deletion/2007 April 27 Some wikipedians believe the source isn't reliable.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 11:18, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Salam. As I told before in the talk page of Iranian revolution we can do it after achieving consensus about structure. Unfortunately I should get a wikibreak and I can't be active for a while. -- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:47, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Salam. How are you. We can't merge Mutaween and Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice.These are completely different issues. I found that has been deleted. Please upload  instead of it. Another issue, can you please review Islam and write your ideas in Featured article candidates/Islam/archive2. Thanks a lot.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:06, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Liberation of Khorramshahr
Salam. Today is the anniversary of recapture of Khorramshahr. Please watch this nice clip:. It shows war from Iraqi invasion to recapture of Khorramshahr from Iranian POV. You can find almost all of the important issues comprising nationalism, mobilization, martyrdom, etc.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 15:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This is what I mean.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 08:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Request
Based on what I have heard I think that you would be able to help the article History of fundamentalist Islam in Iran greatly. Your help would be appreciated. The Behnam 18:55, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

New source
Salam. You can use this as a god source to make Iranian revolution more NPOV.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 05:13, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Enoying the heat? If you mean the weather, surprisingly this year is not as hot as every year. I agree with your suggestion to put something like it in History of the Islamic Republic of Iran but I'm not so active. Please do it yourself. -- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 01:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I forgot to ask that who are the main candidates of presidential election?

Where is the carrot?
Salam. Have you read this. Apparently your politicians can't understand that unjust threatening just encourage Iranians to go forwards and gain more power. I hope they could learn how should speak with us. Such propaganda only reduces liberty in Iran and strengthen hardliners. Your politicians instigate Iranians to resist against them. Tell them to read something about Ashura and its position in Iranian culture. I hope to see more rational and realist politicians in both country. Best wishes-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 06:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Have you read this:As Chomsky Sees It-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:49, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:Political thought and legacy of Khomeini
I read some part of it and put some comments in the talk page. Unfortunately I don't have enough time to check it completely. I think some these wikipedias can help us: User:Zereshk, User:Aminz, User:Gerash77 and User:Sina Kardar, User:Farhoudk. -- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 02:48, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I forgot to appreciate your efforts. -- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 03:15, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I also tried to improve Ruhollah Khomeini-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 12:24, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Re:Political thought and legacy of Khomeini
Thanks for your note. I am very happy that you started this article. I went through the article quickly. If you are interested in my feedback, here is what I think:
 * Thanks for your feedback. I'm pretty busy but I'll try to reply to your points.

A.

I think the section on martyrdom needs to be rewritten: 1. More than half of the section is not about Iran while Khomeini was Iran's leader. 2. Khomeini did not introduce any new definition of martyrdom. 3. Martyrdom is not suicide bombing. 4. Martyrdom in Iranian literature is not necessarily a religious concept. Any soldier who dies while defending his country will be considered "Martyr", even if the person is not muslim.
 * I think the maryrdom section is very important. THe clearing of minefields by baseej martyrs was a big part of the Iran Iraq war and certainly unique one. Yes other country's are mentioned but this is an article about the Imam's legacy not his legacy in Iran. Khomeini wanted Islamic government to spread throughout the Islamic world. My point is that however unintended and grotesque the connection between Khomeini's promotion of martyrdom against mlitary targets in Iraq and the intihari on Shia there is a connection, a documented connection. Pasdaran helped and trained Lebonese Shia Islamists. Lebonese Shia Islamists had tremndous sucess in expelling superior military forces of US, France MNF and Israel from Lebanon . Bin Laden is on record pointing to these tremendous successes as example he would follow and other Muslims should also.  And Al-Qaeda in the land of the two rivers is on record calling for and bragging about attacks on Shia civilians in "martyrdom operations."

5. Suicide martyrdom, was not practiced nor recommended during Iran-Iraq war. There were some very few occasions where some soldiers were trapped in mine field and some soldiers needed to sacrifice themselves for the life of others. I think that's the highest level of humanity that a person sacrifices himself to give life to hundred other humans. Please do not mix this with terrorism. 6. In today 's Iran, any person like a teacher, a doctor, a lawyer who dies due to an accident in the work-place will be considered a martyr. For example a notable teacher who dies due to a car accident while going to school would be considered martyr. 7. Martyrdom is nowadays smells like terrorism. But the word as used in Iran refers to concepts that are praised in all societies under other names. 8. Iranian soldiers did not jump on mines in order to win the war! They were forced to do it to minimize the number of victims. 9. Iranian soldiers who died for the sake of Iranian nation during Iran-Iraq war are well respected in Iranian society no matter they are secular or religious.
 * Agreed martydom may have no connection with "martyordom operations" (intihari) what so ever. Agreed many in the West many may not hear the word "martyrdom" these days except in connection with intihari attacks. Agreed Iran (or Iranian military leadrship or whatever) felt clearing minefields with volunteers was necessary militarily.
 * The idea that Khomeini expanded the definition of marytyrdom is not mine but Brumberg's. But I cannot help but notice the great publicity the baseej clearing of minefields got in the world press as evidence that the practice was rare if not never done before then.

B. I think the most important subjects that khomeini wrote and talked about were: "Neither East nor West" and "Velayat e faqih".
 * Very important, but I have to argue not as influential as martyrdom as a military tactic/strategy. No other country uses "Velayat e faqih". "Neither East nor West" is of course the majority belief in the Muslmi world but predates Khomeini (the non-aligned movement)

C. Perhaps it is good to have a section on Khomeini's negative opinion on Vahhabi regime of Saudi Arabia and Al-qaeda. He ordered Iranian goverment to cut relation with Saudi Arabia and he clearly said that Iran may one day start good diplomatic relation with the US but never with Saudi Arabia. Iran had no diplomatic relation with this coutry until Khomeini's death.


 * Agreed but then Shia antagonism with Wahhabi is not unique to Khomeini

D. There need to be a section on Khomeini's differentiation between Islamic government and Islamic Republic system. He was totally against Islamic administration without parliamentary system. (see Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi)


 * Cannot agree. His book Islamic government specifically calls for the replacement of a parliment with a "planning agency" as parliments are unnecessary

E. Khomeini was a main advocate of good Sunni-Shia relation in the world.
 * Agreed there should be something in about his stand on that.

F. During Russian occupation of Afghanistan, Khomeini allowed 3,000,000 Afghan refugees into Iran and helped them while Iran was itself busy with Iran-Iraq war. Iran's population was around 30,000,000 at that time. Perhaps this is one of the most important contribution of Khomeini to humanity and needs to be covered thoroughly. He considered himself a supporter of "poor people of the world".


 * Agreed

There are however many useful information in the article. I will comment on other parts in case you are interested. Take care. Sina Kardar 20:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Salam Leroy65X 15:35, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I propose moving Sina's comment to the talk page of the article.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 04:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem! Sina Kardar 13:58, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Salam. I found this academic source for you:Shia political thought-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 05:20, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Islamic revolution from another viewpoint
I think about another explanation about the trajectory of Iran's contemporary history. Please tell me your idea.

Apparently what had happened in Iran's political and social life at the end of Qajar dynasty and Reza Shah era was a loose translation of modernist movements in Ottoman empire and Atatürk's reforms. For example Iranian intellectuals(translators in fact) derived their main ideas like Kanûn-ı Esâsî(constitution) and Millet(nation) from Young Ottomans and Young Turks during constitutional revolution and then Reza Shah dynasty. We use such words even today. As I understand not only wasn't there strong basis for reform but also most of the reformers didn't understand the issues themselves. On the other hand caliph was the main religious figure among Sunnis and when reformers or revolutionaries defeated him nobody else could stop them. But in Iran and among Shi'as Marja's are the main religious figures and government have never had domination on them because they have their own social and economical system. Pahlavi dynasty underestimate their power in mobilization and their ability to generate new interpretations of Islamic thoughts. I think these are the reasons of the opposite changes in Iran and Turkey when they've faced the modernity. While in Turkey even religious politicians have positive tendency toward Europe, in Iran even irreligious politicians have negative tendency. Now religious figures in Iran should solve the question of modernization. Now we face a new question. While Iran's religious leaders reject the main ideas of modernity how can Iran increase its power? Can they introduce a new interpretation of socio-political order?

Please tell me your idea about this issue.-- Sa.vakilian(t-c) 14:08, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Request for some help
Hey Leroy, I hope you're doing alright. I know you're not on much, but I had a small favor to ask. Recently, User:Chubeat8 has made a number of erratic and suspicious edits to the articles on Abd-al-Aziz ibn Abd-Allah ibn Baaz and Muhammad Naasiruddeen al-Albaanee. He has done so with both the above account and also the following IP addresses: one, two, three, four, and five. I know these were his as some of his comments on the respective talk pages were left by these addresses as well but signed off as "chubeat8"; sometimes he logs in to respond, sometimes he uses one of these various addresses. You can review Talk:Muhammad Naasiruddeen al-Albaanee and ESPECIALLY Talk:Abd-al-Aziz ibn Abd-Allah ibn Baaz for some background on the issue; the talk page for Bin Baz specifically is where I call him out for posting intentional misinformation. I also believe that he is guilty of both "Excessive lengthening" and "Sneaky vandalism" per the official Vandalism policy.

I'm not necessarily asking for any direct involvement (thought that would be welcome), just that you could brush up on what's going on and monitor the articles and talk pages so there's no more funny business. This guy has been warned repeatedly by both me and others and doesn't seem to be giving up. Any help you could give would be much appreciated. MezzoMezzo 20:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like someone has created a "user support log" for Chubeat8. Like Chubeat8 and Swapant,  this uss-cool guy has only seemed to show up for this, as this is his only edit so far.  That, coupled with all the different IP addresses, makes me a bit suspicious.  I've tried to assume good faith but honestly it seems like some anonymous user tried to edit and when I called it out as inappropriate, is now rounding up some friends just for this.  Maybe i'm out of line, but it seems that way.  I know i've already asked for a favor, but would some input from you on the Bin Baz talk page be alright? MezzoMezzo 18:01, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

My comments
Hey there. I'm writing to ask what's not ok with my signature? I added four tilads to the end of the comment and it says my name at the end of my comments. I ask because it's not the first time I'm told to sign my comments even though I do sign them add the Northern 00:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC) thingy to the end. Or maybe I misunderstood something?

I'm the dude who posted here

Northern 00:11, 26 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Well the signatures editors use form a link to their user page. You have to be registered as a wiki user and use the four ~ tilads to make that signature/link. I'm no expert so I don't know why your signature doesn't form a link (and is not colored blue) if you're doing all this. --Leroy65X 15:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: exciting new article

 * 1) 1) Please archive your talk page. #2) I relate to you a story about a cleric who once approached Khomeini in his garden during the war with Iraq. He said to him, "It is not right that Muslims are killing Muslims. This is a senseless war. Please let us end this now." Khomeini says to him, "Do you dare criticise God when he causes an earthquake?" Khorshid 12:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hello, the source is "The Shia Revival" by Vali Nasr, son of Hossein Nasr. I can't recommend it enough especially if you are interested in the "hidden politic" of the Khomeini theology. It also includes reliable sources for the ideas he and his followers promoted about him being Mahdi and so on. Its a very balanced book too because it is written by a Shia scholar, not an anti-Islam bigot. Khorshid 05:06, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

I also suggest renaming the article to Political thought and theology of Khomeini since the article includes theological matters which cannot be separated from his politics. I think there is also some articles discussing how Khomeini was inspired by some of the ideas of Wahhab. Khorshid 06:08, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

New article
I was surprised to see this didn't exist: Religious faith of George W. Bush. Hopefully the people here will not shy away from this subject. Khorshid 05:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)