User talk:Lester DK Chow

Welcome and re your additions to "Eber", "Joktan" and "Zhou Dynasty"
Hi Lester

First welcome to Wikipedia! Second I am very glad that you and your fellow researchers want to add to and improve Wikipedia.

Being on the Wikipedia mailing list I read your email concerning the reversions of the additions you made to Eber, Zhou Dynasty and Joktan articles.

A few points on your additions to Eber:
 * Wikipedia is not designed to have individuals credited at all, because it is assumed that other people will improve or alter that individual's contribution in the future anyway, as information changes, new research reveals new information or to correct a biased viewpoint into a neutral viewpoint.
 * Your additions to Eber were explicitly credited to you and you even went to the length of putting your own name in a sub heading. This is indisputably contrary to Wikipedia policy.
 * The first sentence and heading were written in the first person voice. Wikipedia articles, as for other encyclopaedic and most academic articles, are written in the third person.
 * A Wikipedia article is only meant to contain detailed information about the topic specified by the article title. In fact, all content in the article should fit directly into the topic of the article. Detailed information about related topics should be in other articles.
 * Some of your additions were repeating what was in the previous paragraphs. Just rephrase the existing article if it needs rewording.
 * Some of your additions were personal information. Perhaps include this on your user talk page instead.
 * The rest of your additions included information about the surname Jo/Je and the sinicization of an ancient Hebrew family. Actually this sounds like a fascinating topic, but these are completely different topics and are perhaps candidates for new articles or these topics may already exist in Wikipedia. You can do a thorough search to check and contribute to these articles -- or if none exist just leap right in and start one yourself!

Welcome again and look forward to more of your contributions.

Cheers Lisa 02:05, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Lisa!

I am the best authority on the Zhou Dynasty at this time in the entire world. I suspect that someone didn't like my additions and he or she was still stuck in the old mode of thinking...not being fresh to new ideas and NOT allowing OTHERS to see and share. If I credit myself, it is only so others will know the source of information, where it came from and who the suthority was that wrote the article. I am not doing this for profit or money.


 * People can see from the history who has made recent additions. So people will know the source of the information - don't worrry - especially since I see you've created your User page now. --Lisa 13:31, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

I, also, suspect that it could have been deleted by people who thought that the information was false and bogus, which is not so. All of this information comes from my family records or from the Bible with additional research and verification from and by me.


 * No one challenged the veracity of the information you wrote to my knowledge. The concerns were principally about the unencyclopaedic style used. --Lisa 13:31, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

It is very important to let people know who posted the information and it is good to share knowledge with people. Colleges do not do this and many professors are not open to new ideas, nor the truth...whereas I am. So, I thought that this would be a good free froum to post some facts on my family's history and dynasty as well as little published facts about my past ancestors.


 * Fact and even theories about the Zhou dynasty are welcomed on Wikipedia as far as I'm concerned! For personal information about you though I would recommend to keep it to your User page so it doesn't confuse the other editors of the Zhou Dynasty article. --Lisa 13:31, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

My family's dynasty is a Hebrew dynasty, which was sinocized by Nimrod in 2200 BC. We went to China, when God dispersed mankind from the Tower of Babel and our clanfather Jobab is the son of Joktan, who is the son of Eber. So, knowing this, I thought that I would publish these little known facts, which had escaped the notice of many qualified historians.

The current Imperial family of China is the Chou Dynasty (Zhou Dynasty) and my firm represents China's Imperial Family as its agent in Washington DC. I am a self-taught China history scholar. I am the best in my field of ancient China history and the origins of the Chinese people. There is no one better than I in Beijing University or Harvard!

I am, also, the second cousin to the late Premier Zhou Enlai and second cousin, by marriage, to the late Sun Yat-sen and the late Chiang Kai-shek. If I posted my credentials online, I thought, no one would want to challenge me or erase my postings without asking.

It is a dirty shame to keep the world in darkness and to not allow the world to see, know, and learn!


 * Let's work together to make the information as complete as possible, Lester! Let's be ready to compromise opinion in the name of neutrality and be ready to provide sources for information that people might question. Let's also try to meet the basic requirements of Wikipedia - specifically that means keeping a neutral point of view (NPOV), keeping as close as we can to the Wikipedia Style Guide. Cheers Lisa 13:31, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

I will repost my articles at http://chinatownhawaii.com/wikipedia/ and put a link or reference to this article. I hope that no one erases these comments. If they do, it is being done in bad taste and by someone who has no respect for others. Truth should reign and not the selfish emotions of others. What I posted bests any scholar at the top universities in the US, China, and Israel.

People can write to me at lchow@lava.net

Lester D.K. Chow, President The Chouclansmen Association of America P.O. Box 4604 Honolulu, Hawaii 96812

Lester DK Chow 10:20, 19 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Lester, I've looked at your contributions and have read your concerns here. I can only reinforce what Lisa has already said, but you need to understand what she mentioned. Being that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, there is a certain structure to be followed for articles. The main 2 reasons I see that your contributions were reverted was that they were from the 1st person perspective (your own viewpoint) and that you added your name for credit. If you want credit, fear not, because if you look in the History tab at the top of the article, your username is there associated with your changes. If anybody wants to see what you wrote, even after it's been reverted, it's still saved in the History. If somebody is further interested in what you wrote, they can visit your User Page and find out more information there, where I've seen you've stated your credentials. Albeit, immodestly.


 * The other major reason was that you wrote from a personal perspective. Regardless how you feel that others from an opposite viewpoint may be out to get you, you MUST write as though you're describing what a person other than yourself believes. In other words, write from the 3rd person perspective. If you choose to ignore this, your will be reverted everytime. How many encyclopedia articles have you read that are of the author's viewpoint? None. It's just not the proper format. One of the principles Wikipedia operates by is a Neutral Point of View (NPOV).


 * So to sum it up, your changes have not necessarily been reverted because somebody disagrees with your viewpoint, but rather because of the style you chose to write it in. Rewrite what you have to say bearing the advice above, and you should be fine. Now, if somebody DOES disagree with your viewpoint later and challenges it, your words will still most likely still remain in the article, but described as one viewpoint among multiples. TimothyPilgrim 12:53, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Added by The Chouclansmen Association of America
By Lester D.K. Chow

The Zhou Dynasty of China is the third dynasty in China's history to rule the Chinese people. We have done our own research into Chinese history and have found that there were early errors made even by the best of ancient historians. For example, in early times people either did not have last names or were known by their clan father's name. People surnamed Zhou (Chou), today, hold that name, because their founding ancestor's name was Zhou. People of the Zhou clan were never surnamed Chi (Je) as stated by Ssi-ma Ch'ien. Chi was originally not a surname, but a label or classification of a grouping of people in China. Zhou in Chinese is Jo in Hebrew (See Wikipedia article on Eber), the exact same name and word meaning. Compare more accurately the Hebrew name of Joshua (Jo.shua), which means God is my salvation. Je and Jo are syllables used in the ancient Hebrew (Eberite) language carried over to ancient Chinese.

China has always been governed by indigenous Chinese people, descendants of Huang Di. The mainland of China has only been conquered twice in its four thousand year history by foreigners. The first conquest of China by foreigners was by Mongolians, Genghis Khan, in 1206 AD and the second conquest of China occurred in 1643 AD by Manchurians. In 1644, when the Manchurian leader was installed as Emperor of China, as Shun Chih, a quiet installation by China's Han-Chinese court took place installing the Zhou Dynasty king descendant as emperor of all of China as Shun Cheong. So, it is the Zhou Dynasty that, today, is China's Royal family and Court.

See http://www.oocities.com/zhouclan/chia_pu.html

Mr. Lester D.K. Chow is the younger second cousin of China's late Premier Zhou Enlai and younger second cousin, by marriage, to the late Sun Yat-sen and the late Chiang Kai-shek and the author of the above copyright information.

Lester, if you are willing to license the section of text above to the Wikipedia project, I will be happy to "massage it" into shape for publication. It is our custom not to include copyright notices within our articles. Rather, the "history" feature shows who supplied what text.

If information is condensed and summarized, it is often useful to supply an "external link" to the web site where it came from - especially when there is 3 times or even 10 times as much knowledge there.

Our primary purpose is the organization and presentation of knowledge. Please help us by following our conventions. (I have written you privately, offering to discuss this matter over the telephone.) Uncle Ed 14:15, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

--- how can you guys even waste your time and take this dude seriously? he's obviously pulling facts out of himself. quote: "I am the best authority on the Zhou Dynasty at this time in the entire world." from this line alone you should know not to entertain his mumbojumbo

--- Seriously, legitimate family member's shouldn't be so bashful about it. He is just modeling Wiki for his fantasy-world benefits. The Almanach De Bruxelles, does not recognize him, nor does any Ministry of the People's republic of China. As far as genealogists are concerned, he failed to provide any real proof of descent. Lester, your own studies are not concrete enough to lay a real claim to any line of descent, much less an Imperial line that ended decades ago.