User talk:Lewis buttery

Welcome!
Welcome to Wikipedia, Lewis buttery! Thank you for your contributions. I am Sphilbrick and I have been editing Wikipedia for some time, so if you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Questions or type at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful: Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes ( ~ ); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! S Philbrick (Talk)  15:54, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
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C. N. OTIS
It is understandable that you might wish to use an existing article is a template for creating a new article. I've done that myself on several occasions.

However, you need to do the initial steps off-line. Wikipedia greatly respect copyright, and we do not permit copyrighted information in articles even in older versions of articles. Even though you were working in draft space, we do not permit copyright violations in draft space. If you choose to start with something like the Frank Lloyd Wright article, make sure you do the initial work in an off-line editor and don't move it into Wikipedia until all traces of the original article are gone.-- S Philbrick (Talk)  15:58, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

while I can appreciate the issue with copyright material I am surprised that there isn't a workspace for creating pages I thought that was the Sandbox but that seems to be for just mucking around

I plan to copy the entire structure of the FLW pages and all the sub-pages as Architect C. N. Otis had 36 projects and it seems to make sense to clone FLW's structure rather than re-invent the wheel.

I may have to hire someone to create these pages as this is getting to be a pain trying to figure out where and how to work

Lew
 * I have created a stub article for Calvin N. Otis you are welcome to add to it. Theroadislong (talk) 21:21, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Creating new articles
Creating new articles from a blank start is one of the harder tasks on Wikipedia. In future I urge you to use the Article Wizard to create a draft under the Articles for Creation project. There, an experienced editor will review your draft once you think it is ready. Only when a reviewer approves will the draft be moved to the main article space. This avoids the situation where a deletion is requested soon after the initial version of an article is posted. Also, please read Wikipedia's Golden Rule and Your First Article, if you have not already done so. The advice there can be very helpful, in my view. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:26, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Some steps that often lead to good results when followed:

Congratulations, you have now created a valid Wikipedia article. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:26, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
 * First, review our guideline on notability, our policy on Verifiability, and our specific guideline on the notability of people. Consider whether your  subject  clearly meets the standards listed there.
 * Second, read how to create Your First Article and referencing for beginners and again consider if you want to go ahead.
 * Third,  This is absolutely required; omitting it can result in you being blocked from further editing. 
 * Fourth, gather sources. You want independent, professionally published, reliable sources with each discussing the subject in some detail. If you can't find several such sources, stop; an article will not be created! Sources do NOT need to be online, or in English, although it is helpful if at least some are. The "independent" part is vital. Wikipedia does not consider as independent sources such as press releases, or news stories based on press releases, or anything published by the subject itself or an affiliate of the subject. Strictly local coverage is also not preferred. Regional or national newspapers or magazines, books published by mainstream publishers (not self-published), or scholarly journals are usually good. So are online equivalents of these. (Additional sources may verify particular statements but not discuss the subject in detail. But those significant detailed sources are needed first.)
 * Fifth, use the article wizard to create a draft under the articles for creation project. This is always a good idea for an inexperienced editor, but in the case of an editor with a conflict of interest it is essential.
 * Sixth, use the sources gathered before (and other sources you may find along the way) to write the article. Cite all significant statements to sources. Do not express opinions or judgements, unless they are explicitly attributed to named people or entities, preferably in a direct quotation, and cited to a source. Do not use puffery or marketing-speak. Provide page numbers, dates, authors and titles for sources to the extent these are available. A title is always needed.
 * Seventh, when (well perhaps if) your draft is declined, pay attention to the comments of the reviewer, and correct the draft and resubmit it. During this whole process, if you face any unresolvable editing hurdles, or cannot comprehend any editing issue, feel free to post a request and ask the regulars. Repeat this until the draft passes review.

Note that if you choose to hire someone to create an article, that person would be required to disclose that fact, along with your legal name, in accordance with our policy on paid editing with is strictly enforced. Many experienced editors dislike paid editors, and are less likely to help them. See WP:BOGO, and essay I disagree with, but that a number of editors support. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 22:26, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, I appreciate the advice and can understand the need for controlling content at the same time I just don't have the time or energy to deal with all these hoops and rules and regulations

I will focus on creating a set of webpages for C. N. Otis similar to this: http://franklloydwrightsites.com/sites.html

As for the disdain towards paid editors I can only express dismay No wonder my searchers were in vain in the past such a hoity-toity attitude for some editors to take either the quality of the work is good or it is not who created it should be irrelevant :(

moving on to greener pastures

bye

Lew
 * While i agree with you that the quality of an article should stand on its own, and i have strongly argued that view on many occasions, You should be aware that the majority of paid editors we see are employees of PR firms using more or less deceptive methods to get articles about bushiness and would-be celebrity individuals accepted, purely as part of a marketing strategy, because it is good for their business/image. That has largely poisoned the feeling about paid editors. I recognize that you had no such intent, I was merely warning you against a choice which might have repercussions that you did not expect. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 01:03, 14 June 2018 (UTC)


 * But I will make you an offer. If you will post on my user talk page (or email me, but i'd prefer the user talk page) with links to the sources that you think would suffice for an article about Otis, i will have a try at creating a full article. And you won't even have to pay me a cent. I have created or improved quite a few in the past, you can see links to a few of them at User:DESiegel. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 01:03, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Offline drafting
I draft content off wikipedia all the time. I can see that you are pretty intelligent and understand that yes, you can use an existing, well-written article as a template and simply replace content with new content that applies to your new article. I do it quite often. As an example: If I write an article about a species of butterfly, there is no reason not to use another good butterfly article as a model or template to create the new article. Anyone who doesn't work like this is using up a lot time 're-inventing' a method to create a entirely new article. Go for it. I left a longer response on the Teashouse talk page. Best Regards, Barbara ✐ ✉  21:09, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Barbara:

I thought about the sandbox but I think I can only test one page at a time

I have the code for each major page of the structure saved as .doc files and can create html pages for them so that may be a way to test them

I have been working on some other projects and need to get back to Otis's project soon

thanks for posting and your kind words

Lew Lewis buttery (talk) 05:00, 24 June 2018 (UTC)