User talk:Lexi Marie/Archive5

Esperanza


Don't go. Please. Take a break. You deserve it. But don't go permanently. We need you. Bushytail's Rfa upset me too. Things will get better. Trust me.--Sean|Bla ck 00:24, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * C'mon. Watch a movie, read a book, have a cookie. Then come back, and edit in happiness once again. As my uncle said when he swallowed his tooth, "This too, shall pass." :).--Sean|Bla ck 00:36, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Yay!! I know things'll get better. See you after he break, and hang in there :). --Sean|Bla ck 00:45, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry to hear you're thinking of leaving. Please do consider coming back when your disappointment over the RfA is less close; there are other ways to be involved with the community. &#8227; &#5339;&#5505;  [ &#5200; ] 00:53, 3 November 2005 (UTC)




 * Extreme Lesbian Support of all the comments said above. Come back soon! :) Tito xd (?!?) 03:24, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Enviroknot
Phroziac, why did you unblock Enviroknot? SlimVirgin (talk) 04:19, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It's definitely Enviroknot, and he's banned. He's been causing a bit of trouble today using a number of IP addresses, and this one's his home address, and I think it's semi-static, so should be safe to block for longer periods. Must be a full moon or something. SlimVirgin (talk) 05:25, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Break
I'm distraught to hear you've gone on break; I hope I'll see you back with us soon. -- Essjay ·   Talk 20:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

User:Adam1213 issue on IRC
Log 1:
 * -ChanServ- 1  *!*@CPE-147*nsw.bigpond.net.au As*per*Jtkiefer*and*Essjay*and*several *others,*Adam1213*is*banned*from*the*channel.*Autorem*set*Nov*4*by*Redwolf24* (Note:I'm*Neutral*as*to*if*he*should*be*banned)

Log 2:
 *  Adam1213 has been added to the autorem list on the channel due to the fact that he started bugging me on my talk page again about the access level, I have informed him and Redwolf24 as well as Titoxd agree that he should not be removed anytime soon but will be removed eventually, where eventually is going to be a long time but not never

I think there is a level of over reaction from all parties, I think a director involvement is necesary to resolve the issue.

I also think its approporate for only directors to get auto remove access. Everyone, including myself should not have this kind of power. To evade any incident of this nature. But thats just my opinion, I do not know what other directors think.

Thats all I got fot now. -- Cool Cat Talk 10:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration accepted
Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing has been accepted. Please place evidence at Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing/Evidence. You may advance suggestions and make comments at Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing/Workshop Fred Bauder 15:19, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Question
With JoanneB's RFA this was for short time advertised in the topic on #wikipedia-en-vandalism, after a brief discussion with her as she was uncomfotable with it, I removed it. I've been uncomfortable with these sort of ads for a while, since they seem to be suggesting some sort of official endorsement from CVU which seems inappropriate (even if as individuals we all endorse the candidate), and I'm sure at some point someone will use it as a reason to oppose. So I thought I'd ask the directors see if they had a view. Thanks --pgk( talk ) 13:01, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Jtkiefer's RFB
 

Thanks for your support on my request for bureaucratship.

The final outcome was (17/17/4) meaning that it failed, if you have any advice on how I can be a better editor or administrator please don't hesitate to leave a message on my talk page. Thanks again for your support. Jtkiefer T - 20:38, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

RFA
;-) --GraemeL (talk) 01:13, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The rollback button
Hi Phroziac. I came to bug you with a particular peeve of mine. And that is the following: the admins should only use the rollback button against vandals, and nobody else.

I can see that in this revert you reverted against yourself, but if you check yourself the diff, you will see that it is utterly confusing to anybody else what the heck you are doing in there. A proper revert, with an edit summary would have clarified what you have in mind. And no, looking at the page history does not clarify what you are up to. All I see is "+yelyos" followed by "OOOPS" (I might have gotten the number of O's wrong though).

Anyway, using rollback button in this way does not provide a good example to follow (especially that many admin-wishers would like to become admin for the sake of the rollback button). You can reply here if you have a comment, I will keep this page on my watchlist. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:27, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You have a good point, and i'll stop using it for self reverts. I agree with you mostly, but i've used it several times for self reverts. If you were wondering, I transcluded that rfa before the nominee accepted, and reverted it. And initially i accidently transcluded a year old version of it. --Phroziac(talk)[[Image:Flag_of_Phyzech_Republic.svg|25px]] 01:50, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Got it, thanks. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:57, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

My RFAR
Thats really rather gracious of you. Thanks, and I will do as you suggest. -St|eve 06:38, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Deletion
I nominated MS Patria for speedy deletion apparently at the same time you actually deleted it. So it's still there, but with only the sd boilerplate in it.Bjones 19:20, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Is good then.Bjones 03:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you!
Hi Phroziac, Thank you very much for your support on my RfA. I was both surprised and delighted about the amount of support votes and all the kind words! If I can ever help with anything or if you have any comments about my actions as an admin, please let me know! Regards, Joann e B 14:46, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Pigsonthewing Arbitration case injunctions
Two temporary injunctions have been made in the Arbitration case involving Pigsonthewing, which will hold until the conclusion of the Arbitration. Firstly, he is banned from editing any page in Karmafist's user space (but not user talk space); any sysop may block him for a short time, up to three days, for any edit violating this injunction, and all such edits may be reverted by any editor without regard to the limitations of the three revert rule. Secondly, due to repeated personal attacks, he is subject to a standard personal attack parole: any administrator may ban him for a short time, up to three days, for any edit which, in the opinion of that administrator, constitutes a personal attack.

Yours,

James F. (talk) 20:09, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I have made no personal attacks. Andy Mabbett 16:25, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * And I have only once edited a page in Karmafist's user-space, a page which bore the invitation This article is actively undergoing construction. However, you are welcome to assist in its construction by editing it as well.. Andy Mabbett 21:42, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Andy, I don't think this is the right place to discuss it. Try Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing/Proposed decision if you want the others to notice it. And to be honest, I have not paid much attention to this lately. --Phroziac . o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 22:03, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is the right place to discuss it.: It was James F. who raised the issue here, not I. Andy Mabbett 09:08, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * What I meant is that while he notified me of it, I doubt he has my talk page on his watchlist. Anyway, I see now that you said the same thing on your talk page, and he saw it. :) --Phroziac . o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 13:34, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * My concern was about anyone else who saw the unjustifed allegation, here, and was niaive enough to take it at face value. Andy Mabbett 14:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh. Well, I kinda agree with was James said on your talk page. --Phroziac . o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 14:20, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It's justified right here Andy. And of course, the ArbCom obviously disagrees with you that it's "unjustified". Locke Cole 14:33, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Global Deejays Article Deletion
Hello. I saw you have just deleted the Global Deejays article stub. What do you think of restoring that stub and putting a mark asking for contribuiton, expanding, etc? So that a good soul who knows about Global Deejays would see that that article is in need of contribution and could donate time and knowledge to it. What do you think? Please answer me. Bye bye —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alberto msr (talk • contribs) 22:08, November 26, 2005

Actually, the article is "Global deejays", with a lowercase D. I didn't know Wikipedia article names are case-sensitive. In http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Undelete/Global_deejays it's the current version of the article. --Alberto msr 00:07, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes you are right. Even though Global Deejays is a very famous music band and that page would not fix in the "vanity" category, it does look like a vanity page. I will gather more information and write a full article when I have the time, insteading of reverting the undeletion right now. Thanks for your advice--Alberto msr 01:44, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

They are very famous in the UK and Brazil. I think in other european countries too, since they are from Europe. They play electronic music. Actually if you go to a night club in Brazil or UK the odds of not listening to their songs are very low. Listen to it sometime, you may like them :-) --Alberto msr 02:21, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Anyway
Is there anyway I can get my user page restored and my name/ status back? Thanks, user:stephanie

Zen-master block
Hi, Phrozaic, thanks for your comments. As I've made clear, I didn't block him for his 3RR violations, but rather for his personal attacks. I think it's pretty obvious that repeatedly calling various editors "POV bots" and a "POV bot gang" is a violation of WP:NPA. I warned him beforehand, and subsequently announced the block on WP:AN/I. Notably, no-one there objected to the block. Regards, Jayjg (talk) 02:56, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

New user box
Hello Phorziac, Im Moe Epsilon. Im giving you the user box for your user page called Template:User Member. It's a user box that says your a member of the AWWDMBJ.... Hope you like it! — M o e   ε  03:49, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What do you have in mind? — M o e   ε  03:57, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, I changed it to your suggestion. Later! — M o e   ε  04:29, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

My RfB
Thanks for being so understanding of my situation. Although you cancelled your vote because of my immaturity at the time, I do not believe my immaturity justified my conduct. As an admin, the community should expect better from me. This is why over the past year, there have been no repeats of such conduct (which were triggered by strenuous circumstances &mdash; not that they justify my actions); if these actions were anything other than isolated misdemeanours, you'd have been able to dig up more dirt on me. ;-) Again, thanks for your understanding. Johnleemk | Talk 05:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Phroziac, I just want to confirm that your intent was to remove your oppose vote at Requests for bureaucratship/Johnleemk from the vote count (I changed the indent to reflect that, but want to be sure). BD2412  T 20:56, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

Mindmatrix scam adminship
I have recently been granted greater access to your systems, and can begin the process of salvaging the sensitive information from my politically unstable land, as I promised. Please accept this loonie as a token of faith that I will conduct myself as required to complete our transaction. Thank you for your support. Speaking of blocking users... :-) Mindmatrix 20:38, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Robchurch
This message is regarding the page User:Robchurch. Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. Thanks. —Michael Z. 2005-12-6 15:21 Z 


 * You have been temporarily blocked from editing for vandalism of Wikipedia. If you wish to make useful contributions, you may come back after the block expires. -- Cool CatTalk 17:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Obviusly I am kidding. -- Cool CatTalk 17:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * .... --Phroziac . o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 17:18, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Jesus
Check out the Jesus article and edit it to keep it focused on Jesus and a biographical account of Him. Watch the Jesus page to keep it focused on Him. Thank you. Scifiintel 22:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Apparently, this is a template Phro...karmafist 02:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

BD2412's RFA
Although my RfA is not over yet, I figured that since so many people voted before it had been posted, I may as well start thanking people before it wraps up. It'll take me that long to thank everyone who voted anyway! Thank you, Phroziac, for changing your mind and deciding to support after all - I'll do my best as an admin to make the reality rise to the level of the dream. BD2412 T 17:25, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Read the comment you made with your vote! ;-) BD2412  T 17:31, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Final decision
The arbitration commitee has reached a final decision in the Requests for arbitration/Pigsonthewing case. Raul654 18:17, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Yet Another RFA Thank You Note to clutter up your talk page...
Phroziac:

Just wanted to drop you a note to say EXTREME LESBIAN THANKS for supporting me in my recent RFA. Or, y'know, whatever. ;-)

All the best. → Ξxtreme Unction {yak ł blah } 23:25, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

toolserver
hi. please send me (keturner [at] livejournal.com) an SSH public key and desired username for Toolserver, and edit this page to confirm it's yours. thanks. k.
 * Ok. It's me ;) --Phroziac . o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 03:11, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Delete request
Can you delete vandalism by from the history of Belldandy. I normaly wouldnt care but obviously this is nothing normal :P -- Cool CatTalk 19:13, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you! -- Cool CatTalk 22:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The Barnstar of Diligence


The Barnstar of Diligence may be awarded in recognition of a combination of extraordinary scrutiny, precision and community service.

This isn't just for the delete of those versions but for all of your efforts in dealing with vandals trolls and other pests as well as regular cleanup duty. -- Cool CatTalk 22:36, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar
Thanks. :D But can you put the barnstar on my userpage? I'm too lazy/tired to do it and have it look good. :p --Phroziac. o ºO (mmmmm chocolate!) 02:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It shall be done. -- Cool CatTalk 13:52, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Esperanza elections
Hi : This is a quick note just to let you know that there's an election under way at Esperanza. If you'd like to become a candidate for Administrator General or the Advisory Council, just add your name here by 15 December 2005.

Voting begins at 12:00UTC on 16 December and all Esperanza members are encouraged to join in.

This message was delivered to all Esperanza members. If you do not wish to receive further messages, please contact Flcelloguy. Thank you.

➨ ❝ R e  DVERS ❞ 10:01, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Impersonators detected
Two are blocked (the ones with stop hand) other sleepers (marked with red x) need to be blocked ASAP. Thanks. -- Cool CatTalk 19:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Taken care of. Forget about this one. -- Cool CatTalk 20:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

User:Cool Cat/Impersonators
Hmm... Feel free to add any others. Also you may want to use one or more of the "vandal honor" templates on my userpage. ;) -- Cool CatTalk 20:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I Thought You'd Get A Kick Out Of This
We hold these Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense to be self-evident karmafist 21:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Range blocks
The editor appears to be the banned User:Enviroknot, and is using IP ranges and TOR proxies to both make personal attacks on other editors and revert the page multiple times. I'm not sure why you unblocked, though; I would be skeptical of any claims of innocence by "uninvolved" editors in the range, as this editor has made up new persona and lied about this many times. Jayjg (talk) 21:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, like I said, Enviroknot has used many persona - I have no doubt he can sound "sane and polite" for brief periods. Jayjg (talk) 21:49, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, and once the block came off, he was back reverting and attacking again. Jayjg (talk) 21:50, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Your protection
I just want to let you know you protected the article on a highly inflammatory version that suggests the Pentagon believes the Muslim religion is the basis for terrorism. Yuber(talk) 21:51, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi
Phroziac. Since the user who made the last edit was a banned user and a person who was evading two or three different blocks at once, please revert back to the last revert and then protect. . Banned users may be reverted. Many thanks -- a.n.o.n.y.m   t 21:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Well even Jayjg mostly agrees. But anyways even if you don't think it's him, the user was still on a simple 3rr ban for making attacks/vandalism. So he/she can be reverted for that reason. BTW, no one else is complaining. He was the only user there that was adding the controversial info. Thanks -- a.n.o.n.y.m  t 22:37, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

AGF is one thing but this is a bit much
Really, please. Isn't that quite enough? What else is needed before we can stop assuming good faith on the part of users like User:LeeHunter? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.69.128.146 (talk • contribs)

News from Esperanza
Hello, fellow Esperanzians! This is just a friendly reminder that elections for Administrator General and two advisory council positions have just begun. Voting will last until Friday, December 30, so make sure you exercise your right to vote! Also, I'm pleased to announce the creation of the Esperanza mailing list. I urge all members to join; see Esperanza/Contact for more information. All you need to do is email me and I will activate your account. This will be a great way to relax, stay in touch, and hear important announcements. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note? )

This message was delivered to all Esperanza members by our acting messenger, Redvers. If you do not wish to receive further messages, please list yourself at WP:ESP/S. Thanks.

xiangqi images
I checked, and it appears I made some mistake in naming some of the images (well, couldn't expect less from mass producing 336 images ). That means some of the images uploaded must have been named wrongly. It's ok, I'll upload these last four images manually, and mark the wrongly named ones for speedy deletion. Thanks for all the help, it's been great. -- Natalinasmpf 14:30, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

User:ApeAndPig
Yes, it is an Enviroknot sockpuppet; it is from his city, using an IP provider and range he has previously used. Given that, and the editing pattern, there is no doubt. Jayjg (talk) 07:02, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Birth control/Contraception categories
Hi Phroziac! Just wanted to say thanks for helping to clean up those categories. I was wondering about doing the same thing :-) Uthbrian (talk) 06:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

are you going to at least have the minimum courtesy of telling me when the block is over?
or is it permanent until you feel like turning it off? r b-j 71.161.209.24 17:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * > I did look at the editing history. When I talked to Rchamberlain on IRC (where he pointed it out to me), I also told him he should not blank the talk page, and pointed him to a few policy pages.

but you didn't block him, did you?


 * > Neither of you were in the right. I am not endorsing his behaviour.

you did endorse it if you blocked only me. that is undeniable. particularly since you summarily blocked my account.


 * > Normally, in an edit war, I would treat both sides equally. But, I do not agree with blocking users for reverting their own user and user talk pages.

he was not just reverting it, he was blanking it. the message he was sending was clear and decidedly uncivil. he was blowing my concerns off saying, in effect, that "i don't give a rat's ass what you think." i was only after repeatedly reverting the page myself, to leave my civil message of concern, that he gave any indication that he has heard me. and that indication was decidedly uncivil.


 * > What would you have done if he was doing what you did, on your userpage?

i would have had at least the minimum courtesy of answering him. i would have engaged in a discussion with someone came to my talk page with a complaint. your rhetorical point holds no water.


 * > Who would you want to be blocked?

you don't get it. i was not vandalizing his talk page. one can make a case he was vandalizing his own page (that is not impossible) and he was certainly the uncivil person in his initial behavior.

you were and are wrong. the clearly wrongful action on your part was blocking me with no prior nor contemporaneous contact - no asking me what's going on nor even a warning if you felt you were so correct in assessing a violation on my part. blocking a WP editor without a clear reason of bad faith or violation of policy (as opposed to guideline) is itself an uncivil action. please try to do better next time. r b-j 20:28, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I really appreciate your comments in this discussion. However, I believe we've reached an impasse and further discussion would only contribute to our respective Wikistress levels. Let's agree to disagree and turn our attention to improving Wikipedia in other ways. Cheers! --Phroziac . o ºO (♥♥♥♥ chocolate!) 20:39, 22 December 2005 (UTC)


 * it's a convenient (i.e. self-serving) position to take after unilaterally increasing my wikistress, when, in fact you have not justified your action or, using other words, responded to my main complaint of blocking me unilaterally "for edit warring" (it takes two, at least) without contact me in advance about what was going on (so you could get another or "the other" POV of the problem). that is inexcusable.  not unforgivable, just without excuse for an admin.  it is convenient for you, in a position of power over me, after unilaterally acting to "harm" (by blocking) my being here at WP, to conveniently say "Let's agree to disagree and turn our attention to [something else]."  i'll try to remember that evasive technique next time i harm someone in some way so i won't have to either think introspectively about it, make amends, or change something. r b-j 23:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * WP:RFAr --Phroziac . o ºO (♥♥♥♥ chocolate!) 23:49, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: Copy/paste
''Hi. Thanks for reverting vandalism. In the future, you should not move pages by copying/pasting them. This hides the page history, and administrator intervention is required to fix it. You should move pages by clicking the "move" tab on the top, near the "edit this page" button. If your account is too new to be able to move pages, just let someone else do it. I have fixed the move. :) --Phroziac . o ºO (♥♥♥♥ chocolate!) 18:31, 22 December 2005 (UTC)''
 * Yeah, I moved the others properly once I realized what happened, but I was editing that page at the time and I got an edit conflict with the redirect link. Apparently the move meant I was editing a different page (history wise)... or something. Anyway, I just saved over it, which is how it ended up being temporarily impossible to move it back the normal way. Sorry, and thanks! Jibbajabba 21:09, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I suppose you'll call this harrassment, too.
Arbitration has been requested in a matter you are named a defendant in. WP:RFAr. r b-j 05:09, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's not harrassment. --Phroziac . o ºO (♥♥♥♥ chocolate!) 14:57, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

cuuuuuuute kitty
Ignore the freaks on wikipedia and just play with Heiki instead. adorable kitty deserves some attention. aww :) -- Mistress Selina Kyle  (  Α⇔Ω ¦  ⇒✉  )  05:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Skuld (disambiguation)
Is it possible for you to move that page to Skuld? -- Cool CatTalk 16:34, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Only if there's a consensus for it. --Phroziac . o ºO (♥♥♥♥ chocolate!) 16:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Hmm.... If I request a vote they mention it to everyone interested in norse mythology and come up with artificial votes. If I move it myself they move it back etc using admin powers. What should I do? -- Cool CatTalk 16:48, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

AMA
You know, we are discussing a revival of AMA, which seems to have gone downhill. Please see Wikipedia talk:Association of Members' Advocates, that is where the revival is being discussed. Your input would be welcome. To answer your other comment, yes, I do and have accepted requests. Please join our discussion, I pleased that people are getting interested. Take a look at my latest proposal if you have time. Thanks :-) Izehar (talk) 22:23, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

AMA, User:IanManka
Regarding talk page message...

I was under the impression that if any member needed advocacy, they could contact me (being one of the "members accepting requests," or whatever it's called) via my talk page or via e-mail through my user page. I haven't been contacted by any user requiring advocacy, and therefore, have not advocated any cases. I recently looked at the current cases page, and I can't find one that I won't be one-sided on, or neutral yet. If and when more cases appear, I'd be more than happy to assist. If you seek any further questions, please contact me on my talk page. Ian Manka Questions? Talk to me! 01:09, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

hi, can you help
i think i need mediation or assistance of some kind. i posted the following to an admin, but i have no idea if they have read it or are working on it. what should i do?

I'm bshul@aol.com

dear andrevan,

i certainly have fallen into a black hole. could you please help. I posted an article which was summarily deleted as an advertisement. this article is a technical article about a novel use of nomex, on which, i have a patent pending. the novel use was turned into a product called the cool touch oven rack guard. it is a first of its kind product. the deletionist's contention that it is an advertisement is bogus if you compare it to a wikipedia acceptable article for "Roomba". if roomba is not advertisement, then "Cool Touch". isn't either. alternatively delete roomba and all such articles/adverts.

during my discussion with the deletionists, the history was: 1). delete because advert 2). my edit to remove name of product and link to manufacturer's webpage 3). told article must have ind. ver. and notable sources 4). included links to 3 i,v,n sources 5). deletionist then focuses on "must be nationally know" 6). i see that my discussion with him will lead to an infinite process, of obfuscation. so i am now asking for mediation.

i dont know if you can access the history on this, if not i will try to supply the various items i refer to.

to answer the question of "nationally known". here is a link to a video article on Cool Touch shown on HGTV, Scripts Media Company, which is a certainly nationally known news and information company. (i have put the "page on my Ftp space for safe keeping) http://members.aol.com/bshul/hgtv.html I hope you will straighten this whole thing out. I am hopeful that i will be able to post the my article with the product name and the link to the manufacturers website. I'm not telling you how to answer my request, but please include in your answer, comment on my Roomba contention. thanks burt 845 298 4229