User talk:Lexmercatoria

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Jana Gana Mana
Looks like we both simulutneously had the same "bright" idea regarding the solution to the national anthem transliteration issue. Even though, you stated the point more eloquently, I decided to attach my version too in the hope that the meeting-of-the-minds will draw greater attention. Now we just have to wait for everyone else to fall in line :-) Welcome to wikipedia! Abecedare 16:50, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Image:Dholavira.JPG
Please stop blanking tags to this copyvio image. The licence was fake and found to be plagiarised from Google. Wikipedia takes copyright issues very seriously as it exposes the site to legal vulnerability.Anwar 19:26, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
 * In that case, you're using the wrong tag. You should be using .  You should not be deleting a license someone has provided and then saying that no license was provided, which is what you're doing. And did you notice that I listed the image for speedy deletion myself, only using a more appropriate criterion than you did? -- Lexmercatoria 19:31, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Lexmercatoria, Since seems to be ignoring reasoned arguments presented by Huson, you and me at his talk page I have reported his actions at WP:ANI. Please feel free to respond there. Abecedare 20:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Question
Can you please take a look at the question I asked here and provide your expert opinion ? Thanks. Abecedare 16:29, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Official languages of India
Hi Lex, I sense from your recent comments on the Talk:India and Official languages of India page that you are getting exasperated by the seemingly twisted requirements with regards to sourcing on wikipedia. Let me assure you that you are not the first, nor likely to be the last to be placed in this situation. In my own case, I often limit editing in my technical area of expertise, because often non-technical, mass-media sources which present a half-baked picture of the subject are taken as gospel by editors who are either ill-informed or worse, willing to deliberately misread sources if it aids them in selling their POV. At the same time though, I completely understand why wikipedia, which is edited by a anonymous, non-credentialed, self-selected group of editors needs to rely on secondary sources that are in the main understandable by "naive" editors. I am certain that once you think calmly over the issue you will realize the same. Therefore I hope that you don't quit editing India law related articles, or revert your good work - but instead pace yourself and edit slowly so that the articles reflect both what you know to be true through your expert knowledge of the subject and satisfy wikipedia's policies on verifiability, original research, reliable sources. Let me know if I can be of any help in this process; I guess you will have a far better access to a law library than me, but if there is any general purpose book that you would like me to look up, I can try to be of help. PS: In my experience F&F is a good editor who is persuadable by reference to sources and arguments. So I hope that we can work together to make sure that the article contents are accurate and well-sourced, without personalizing the discussion. Cheers. Abecedare 00:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * LOL. I am too lazy to locate the diff, but I remember linking to that same New Yorker cartoon sometime back on wikipedia; it captures the thought most effectively. Abecedare 01:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

If you had complete reign on what to include in the "Official language" field of the India article, what would your choice be ? That is, how would you tradeoff between the space vs accuracy. This is strictly to satisfy my curiosity, and that is why I am asking this question here and not adding to the (lengthy!) Talk:India discussion. Regards. Abecedare 17:16, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * If I were Supreme Dictator over Wikipedia, I would write something along the lines of: "Hindi and English at the Central level, various others at the State level and for specific purposes." It can probably be made a bit more concise, but that's the general thought I'd want to capture.  Anyhow, this is a very very minor issue, and I honestly don't think it's worth agonising over any more particularly given the large number of articles about Indian law that are begging to be written.  -- Lexmercatoria 17:33, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, that is what I had expected your choice would be. Do you draw a distinction between your version and the following:
 * Hindi, English, others


 * In my eyes both are essentially equivalent, with the latter having the slight technical advantage of keeping the field-width in the infobox manageable. That aside, I completely agree that this whole infobox issue (as opposed to the content of the Official languages of India article itself) is overblown, since hardly any neutral reader will read-in all the shades of meanings that editors are analyzing in the discussion. But on wikipedia any issue is notable as long as two parties are willing to argue over it. Isn't it the same in law ? :-) Abecedare 17:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * PS: I don't mean to draw you into discussing the fine differences between the above two versions! After some point, the marginal returns of discussion are vanishingly small :-) Abecedare 17:55, 6 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I've tried to explain the distinction to Fowler&Fowler here.   As I said there, it is a rather fine one, just the sort of things my profession loves (and makes lots of money out of!) -- Lexmercatoria 20:40, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Off. Languages - some refs
Hi Lex, Here are some links and refs which I hope you find useful. I will be on the lookout for more and add to this list as and when I find more refs.

Tripura - Bengali script is used on the home page and the forms for ration cards(perhaps the single most important document for identification in India) are in English and Bengali. So I think Bengali can safely be assumed as the official language of the state. The same govt., site also lists Kakborak as a major language here.

Meghalaya - Khasi & Garo Languages have been recognized and notified as Associate Official Languages of the State.

Andhra Pradesh - Telugu and Urdu

Manipur - Manipur Official language Act - I cant read what is written there.. but I think it is Bengali. Some of our Bengali friends on wiki might be able to help. Although, Manipur is not an Eighth schedule language, however, it is the official language of the state in accordance with the Manipur official language Act, 1979.

Nagaland - English

Goa - Marathi is associate language

Himachal Pradesh - The official language of the state is Hindi.

Misc., interesting links -
 * Official language FAQ
 * Official use of Urdu in different states

That Official language FAQ link is particularly interesting. This much for now. Thanks. Sarvagnya 19:45, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Pun, Har, Rajthn, Guj, Jha, Goa, Orissa
Punjab - The circular states that as per the Punjab State Language Act, 1967, the administrative correspondence should be done in Punjabi which enjoys the status of the state language. Another link. Hindi also seems to have some status, though it doesnt seem like it is an "official" language of the state..

Haryana - Haryana had adopted Hindi as its official language in accordance with the Haryana State Language Act, 1969.

Rajasthan - The relevant acts are called "The Rajasthan Official Language (Amendment) Ordinance, 1954" and "The Rajasthan Official Language (Supplementary Provisions) Ordinance, 1970".. However, I do not have a link to the acts or a ref to their contents at the moment. Will keep digging and let you know.

Gujarat - Here is a list of all Acts and Regulations of the Gujarat govt.,. I dont see any connected to language there. But I guess its fair to assume that Gujarati is the official language. I'll look for refs though.

Jharkand - This may not be a RS source, but it sure does throw some light on the situation in Jharkand.

Goa - Konkani is official language, Marathi is 'associate' official language.

Orissa - "Official Language Act passed in Orissa Assembly to introduce Oriya in official work". List of Orissa govt., acts mentioning their language act.

Misc., link - * [http://dipr.mizoram.gov.in/faq.pdf A general source about the Right to information act. Also talks about Official language(s) use(d) in the application of the RTI Act.,] Sarvagnya 21:31, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Bengal, Tripura and a very good pdf
Bengal and Tripura - [http://tdil.mit.gov.in/BanglaCodeChartDetailsJul02.pdf Bangla is fourth most popular language in the world. It is one of the major Scheduled languages in India and is the State language of Bangladesh. It is the official language of West-Bengal and Tripura.]

Misc., link - This is a particularly interesting link. Could probably be used to write an article like Multilingualism in India. Some excerpts - "...There is a distinction between the ‘Official Language’ and ‘Language(s) used in Administration’. To illustrate this point, an example can be cited here...", [http://www.elda.org/en/proj/scalla/SCALLA2004/mallikarjunv3.pdf "...After the promulgation of the Official Language Acts the following 16 languages are the official languages in different states and union territories : Assamese, Bengali, English Gujarati, Hindi, Kannada, Konkani, Malayalam, Nepali, Manipuri, Marathi, Oriya, Punjabi, Tamil, Telugu, Urdu became Official Languages in various states and union territories of the country...". Sarvagnya 22:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Thank you!
Thank you for the Panthera tigris! It is one of my favorite animals. Patient it certainly is, given that only one in ten chases results in a kill. The infobox problem has been a bit of a pain, but it certainly has raised awareness of the attendant problems of multilingualism (at least for me it has). Thanks again. Fowler&amp;fowler «Talk»  15:35, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Judiciary of India ?
I noticed that while there are half-decent articles on Supreme court, high court and district court of India (although the last two are not much good), the supposedly main overview article on Judiciary of India is little more than a stub. Perhaps something you'd be interested in improving/expanding ? Should be trivial to source from standard civics and law texts. Cheers. Abecedare 18:55, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You Can't Leave Now!
Dear Lexmercatoria, I just noticed your user page and what seems like a goodbye message there. I know that you must be frustrated, but you can't leave now, especially after you have spent so much time working on the Official languages of India page. You are the only expert editor around for topics related to Indian law and are much needed on Wikipedia (enervating as it sometimes has been for you). So, please reconsider. By all means take a break, a week or two, but please come back! Regards, Fowler&amp;fowler  «Talk»  12:27, 25 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Fowler posted this message because I requested someone expert for work on the Indian law page. If the failed experiment was to do with the frustration of editting in the face of adversity, please see Competition law and Criminal law for a couple of reasons you're right. But then see the Law page itself, for a reason to not feel down!  Wik idea  23:23, 16 August 2007 (UTC)