User talk:Libby norman/Archive 3

THIS ARCHIVE IS FOR 2014

Eagle Eye (Rejection of)
Hello Libby. I note the decision about Eagle Eye (1 Jan) -- i.e insufficient demonstrated notability. I am disappointed, but I'll get over it !! -- I'm not altogether surprised, actually. Eagle Eye is a new (young) organisation, founded in 2011 (as the wikipage stated). Perhaps it was much too early to be thinking about a wikipage. I wasn't quite sure exactly where the threshold for acceptability would lie. I accept the decision. I'll not be pursuing a request for a wikipage about this organisation at the present time. Apologies if I have wasted your time. Happy New Year, and all that. Habizhpeh (talk) 21:04, 4 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Habizhpeh. Libby norman (talk) 12:40, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

Ways to improve David Sims (photographer)
Hi, I'm Nechlison. Libby norman, thanks for creating David Sims (photographer)!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. Provide more content in each section(selected awards, personal life etc) you mentioned in your article.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. Nechlison (talk) 19:07, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Marks
I personally dislike including mention of hobbies and youthful pursuits irrelevant to notability, but now that you've improved it, the article is no worse that way than a great many others. As you realize, the problem more generally is people who are covered mostly from a social, not professional standpoint, and how much of that should go into an encyclopedia. I have no fixed view on this: we reflect the world, but we don't necessarily copy it.  DGG ( talk ) 00:59, 13 January 2014 (UTC) So true. Mentioning hobbies and one's own interest doesn't show notability   DGG. Nechlison (talk) 17:09, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Alapati Dharma Rao
This article has the same issue as we are talking about Maria al-masani. This article entirely depends upon URLs Nechlison (talk) 16:21, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Nechlison's Talk page. Libby norman (talk) 17:11, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

January 2014
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Talkback
Cyphoidbomb (talk) 03:12, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

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All things Grimaldi
Firstly, can I thank you for your continued interest in Joey. I brought the old clown up to featured article status in 2012 and I'm pleased to meet someone who shares my enthusiasm for our greatest clown. I see you have helpfully updated the St James's/Grimaldi Park information for which I am truly grateful. Re Dibdin however, I have copy edited your latest addition as I don't feel that the park's name change and Joey's plinth are relevant to Dibdin's article. Best  Cassianto Talk   17:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Hi Cassianto, thank you for your very courteous note. I thought it was relevant to update the Dibdin page because there are actually two coffin shaped musical artworks in the park as of 2010 and both Grimaldi and Dibdin are remembered here. Possibly I didn't explain that very well, but here's a link to show you what I'm talking about and you can actually dance on their graves, apparently . The new artwork is also mentioned on London Gardens Online here . Rather nice that he has his own memorial – do you think it could be reinstated even if it's better worded? Libby norman (talk) 18:03, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Not really, I think adding Joey's information to his page, Dibdin's to his page and Grimaldi Park's information to that page is the best way to go. You could add the whole information to the park's page and have a note on each of the persons article explaining their own particular memorial.  What do you think? (p.s, would you mind keeping the discussion together as it would be easier to read :-)   Cassianto Talk   18:09, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * That was what I had in mind. I'm suggesting one line saying an artwork in Charles Dibdin's memory was unveiled in the park in 2010 on his page. It's a sign he's remembered officially. St James's is now officially known as Joseph Grimaldi Park, so it seems to make sense to link to that somehow as Wikilinks are normally encouraged and there isn't a separate page for St James's – perhaps put in a concealed link, as in St James's to keep it clean and enable people to read more if they want to, and possibly visit his grave/memorial. Libby norman (talk) 18:44, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Yes, I see no reason why the Dibdin memorial shouldn't be listed on the Dibdin page. It's just you went into too much detail by saying that the park is now named Joseph Grimaldi Park from the former St James's Park and that Joey also has a memorial there, etc.  This information is not really relevant to Dibdin and can be given in its entirety on the park's page with each memorial being given on each of the performers articles.   Cassianto Talk   18:57, 25 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Secondary to that, although links are encouraged in some places, be mindful of WP:LINKFARM and WP:OVERLINK. Too many links are not good.   Cassianto Talk   19:01, 25 January 2014 (UTC)


 * That sounds a good plan. Thank you for your input and also the barnstar – much appreciated. I'll amend the Dibdin page as you suggest. Libby norman (talk) 19:36, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Ally Capellino
Thank you for your help on the Ally Capellino article Libby - I wondered if you'd be able to help me add some images to the article? I'm struggling to work out how to take it to the next stage to improve it. If you think you can help, that would be great! Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steph Davies (talk • contribs) 15:56, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Steph Davies talk page. Libby norman (talk) 16:19, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

reason for rejection
No reason was given for the rejection. I don't know if it was a content problem or a misunderstanding of submission technique.

The incense page says that benzoin is used only in Orthodox Christian Churches, particularly Russian Orthodox, and that is not true. I thought of making a note on the incense page and may have done so in brief, but then I thought that the subject is important enough to Churches of the Liberal Catholic Movement and perhaps Churches of the High-Church Anglican/Anglo-Catholic movement that it deserved some further elucidation.Tmrdean (talk) 23:35, 16 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Tmrdean talk page to explain WP:V and why article was rejected. Libby norman (talk) 09:28, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Rejected Article for submission
I see that you rejected an article I submitted to Wikipedia - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Midtown_Village - stating that "Solid references are essential – currently they don't support the statements in the article." Yet this is simply not accurate. While the topic is not widely recognized (which is part of the article itself) and there are limited references available, these should not be held against the article itself. The concept embodied in the article is unique and novel as well as relatively new (resulting in limited source material). Nonetheless, it (the subject of the article) exists. The article consists of 6 statements, 4 of them are in fact supported - some by a page in Wikipedia itself, which implies that you don't think Wikipedia is "solid." It is this somewhat irrational policing of Wikipedia which caused me to not donate last year and will probably continue. I realize that my donation should in no way influence the editorial content of Wikipedia and I wouldn't respect Wikipedia if it did, but at the same time, the management and control of the site becomes an effective repellent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JStanwood (talk • contribs) 01:19, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on JStanwood talk page. Libby norman (talk) 09:24, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Your response to this seems similarly illogical to the original rejection. The idea of Midtown Village is relatively new so indeed there is little information to cite as authority (or "beef") and I am sure the many people who live, work and shop there will agree. But now, due to your fiat, it suffers even less recognition. Midtown Village, like, e.g., Tribeca, is a neighborhood that started kind of as a grass-roots thing. What I offered for citation was legitimate and I get that you won't say, "Maybe I was wrong" (you are). So many times I see unsupported pages on Wikipedia which don't suffer such scrutiny (for example, the first "random article" that wikipedia sent me to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandinam_a_Coed_Deri - a "site of special scientific interest" with no references at all other than the referring page). Rather than simply approve the page and improve it with the citations you actually found on your own, you deem it better to just reject it. Which to me makes no sense at all. Part of the reason the article was sparse was because I wanted it to be approved first (knowing that the risk for rejection is high) and then I and others would have added to it (as is my understanding of Wikipedia). Whatever, Wikipedia works despite people such as you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JStanwood (talk • contribs) 14:52, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on JStanwood Talk page, also duplicating the above comments on his/her talk page so that entire dialogue can be seen in one place. Have offered support and alternative routes such as Teahouse, but also reminded him/her of WP:CIVIL and a few other useful points on notability, etc. Libby norman (talk) 20:18, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

February 2014
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 * Thanks, now fixed.Libby norman (talk) 15:33, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on changes to the AfC mailing list
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Articles for Creation
Dear Libby,

I would like to find out how I can improve this article. Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/The Ritz Carlton Residences, Singapore, Cairnhill Its all factual in nature and I would appreciate if you could let me know which part sounds like its an advertisement so that I can improve on it. I thought we were supposed to be factual about our submissions.

Regards, John AKM — Preceding unsigned comment added by John AKM (talk • contribs) 07:17, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on John AKM talk page. Libby norman (talk) 10:35, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

Article for Creation Lyndhurst Hall, Kentish Town
Hi Libby Norman, Just to say a big thank you for your help with my article.

Christine Dyos Christine A Dyos (talk) 14:07, 25 February 2014 (UTC)


 * responded/thanked on Christine Dyos' talk page.Libby norman (talk) 16:41, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

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WikiProject Articles for creation March 2014 Backlog Elimination Drive
 Hello Libby norman:

WikiProject AFC is holding a  month long Backlog Elimination Drive!

The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from March 1, 2014 to March 31, 2014.

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Writers' and Artists' Yearbook
Hi Libby, thank you for your edits on Writers' and Artists' Yearbook. Thanks for getting it live. I wondered at your excisions. I'm not sure why most of the reception section was cut. Why remove reviews from the Independent and the BBC? Why not mention that the book has sold over 2 million copies, sourced by the BBC? The previous reviewer (wrongly) stated that there was not enough independent coverage of the book. There is now less than before and some other editor could well rock up and challenge notability. I have to say, the whole AfC system seems to be in a hell of a mess. Anna (talk) 20:10, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Anna's talk page, explaining why and also hoping to encourage her to join AfC. Libby norman (talk) 22:31, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I've replied on my talk page Anna (talk) 22:45, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

Why the article was declined ?
The article Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/jEmbryoS was declined as not complaining with notability guidelines. But it completely resembles the situation with another article (jNode), which was not declined and contains information about a system of the same class - the Java Operating System. No notability differences exist for two systems. Then here is the question - why the jEmbryoS article was declined ? Alexbav4anystuff (talk) 10:34, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Alexbav4anystuff talk page. Libby norman (talk) 11:02, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

Mark Sheldon Ross article
Hi Libby Thank you for your feedback about the page I am trying to create on Mark Sheldon Ross. I have now rewritten the article, and added a number of references. I will add hyperlinks to the various key words (e.g. Goldsmiths) once the text itself has been validated. Best regards 17:12, 14 March 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by EdouardGris (talk • contribs)

International Comparisons page submission
Thank you Libby very much for the kind regards and feedback! This is my first time writing a wikipedia article, and i'm hoping to keep on the right track here.

If there's anything else on there that's indicative of NPOV issues, i'd like to eradicate them and am willing to address them. Hopefully, with the other edits you mention and a few additions i'll mention below, there won't be too many more NPOV concerned edits necessary.

I removed the help wanted piece out of the description for the InternationalComparisons.org section. Also, i changed "The site is easy to use and has a consistent interface and format," to "The site has a simple, consistent interface and format," to convey a more objective tone.

I made minor edits to the OECD description to convey a more objective tone.

I converted all of the off site links to wiki links and cited references. Please let me know if i did this incorrectly or misunderstood something. I also corrected some attempts at wiki links that had errors.

Most noticeably, i added site-data coverage survey tables to demonstrate what kind of subjects each source's data site covers. It also demonstrates to what extent these sites are executing original research in each subject or are deriving their research from other sources (often each other). Hopefully, this also address the issue you pointed out for me in your response, and that InternationaclComparisons.org, based on subject coverage and other prominent sites heavily depending on derivative research, belongs in the list.

I'm not certain that "primary" and "secondary" are the best terms. Can you think of any alternatives?

Also, you might notice that the references to the sites in the tables are repeats of references to the same items in the "Examples of International Comparisons." I'm not sure how to get around the repeat listing. If the first time i use it i make it a "Named reference" would it keep it from repeating itself in the reference list?

Again, please let me know if there are other edits necessary (content, NPOV, otherwise), and i'll be happy to do my best to accommodate. Hopefully though, this takes care of the issues you've already mentioned.

Here's the url just in case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/International_Comparisons

I have not "resubmitted" the article yet. I wanted to get your feedback first.

Dylbertiii (talk) 20:58, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
 * responded on 21 Mar on Dylbertiii's talk page. Libby norman (talk) 01:39, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Roar
I re-directed this AfC to the article for the hit song. You declined its submission, but it has become a hit. Who knew? Bearian (talk) 19:47, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Many moons ago, you declined submission of a draft of this article, just before its release. Katy Perry is a very famous pop singer, and her song, Roar is now a big hit. There is no reason for you to think or know anything about it.  A bot automatically moves to delete AfC's that have not been edited for six months; in the meanwhile the song has become a huge hit for Perry.  So, instead of deleting it, I redirected the old draft to the new article.  OK? Bearian (talk) 20:11, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Bearian's talk page. Libby norman (talk) 20:17, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Articles for creation/Funko Pop! Vinyl
Hi Libby, thanks for your input in regard to the Funko Pop! Vinyl page I've created.

However, despite improving on the article by adding further references and fine tuning some content, I get the feeling it's all for nothing. Given your reason for declining the article "subject appears to be a non-notable company or organization", I'd like to ask if it's worth my while optimising this article given it's non-notable? I don't want to put time and effort into fine tuning the article to find it'll never be accepted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darthfyer (talk • contribs) 14:14, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
 * responded to this on 22 March on Darthfyer's talk page. Libby norman (talk) 01:37, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Dear Libby,
On 10March you communicated rejection of a proposed article on the "Renouveau catholique" suggesting that the article was a translation of an already existing article "Catholic Renewal" which already exists on Wikipedia and that the sketch of the proposed article lacked context.

With regard to this assessment, I would point out the following>

1. The article on "Catholic Renewal" is an article about the renewal of sourcing of Catholic theology in the period immediately priod to the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965). This article is about a subject which POST dates the proposed article on the "Renouveau catholique" by at least 40 years.

2. The proposed article "Renouveau catholique" is about a socio-cultural movement which finds expression in literature (especially in the Catholic Novel) which flourished from 1870-1914. It would not be possible to integrate this with a theological article in any sensible manner.

. As for context, the article on "Renouveau catholique" using this specific terminus technicus already exists on the German version of Wikipedia and may be consulted here if an idea of context is needed in the event of the revisor not being expert in this field. The article may be consulted here:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renouveau_catholique

It would be an improvement for the English wipipedia to have an English language version (not translation) of this article.

Please review your review of my sketch in the light of the above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.251.146.207 (talk) 00:35, 24 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Responded on User talk:94.83.253.145. Libby norman (talk) 10:24, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Hi
can you please elaborate the reasons for not finding the article regarding Eduwave up to the mark, specially when many of the article with almost contents about other companies are functioning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EduIITprep (talk • contribs) 07:21, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
 * responded on EduIItprep talk page. Libby norman (talk) 12:01, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

hearingImpaired.net
Hello We updated the article for your review but we are unsure how to re-submit it. Can you please take a look at it for us? Thank you Realstonesquared (talk) 03:38, 26 March 2014 (UTC)Realstonesquared

Scarlet Rd article notification
Thank you for the way you've managed this.--Soulparadox (talk) 14:22, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi again: You stated in the acceptance message that I can upload new articles without the review process. How do I do this? Thank you again for your time. Regards,--Soulparadox (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Soulparadox user page.Libby norman (talk) 15:20, 28 March 2014 (UTC)

Article: Fall of the Berlin Wall - posted 30th March 2014
I can accept the reasons behind my contribution being declined for inclusion: reasons being that it is more of an essay about the event than an encyclopedic entry.

This may appear to be truthful, but on reading the other accounts of personal accounts of the event I found that a great deal of the detail about the actual night was missing and in many cases incorrect having been written by people who arrived after the actual event and by people who I can only surmise had bad recollections of the night.

Much of my background detail pertaining to the european build up to the night of 8th/9th November 1989 is indeed covered on more formal inserts. My impetus for submitting my recollection was that a personal account of the event with actual detail, hour by hour, is not covered by any insert and through my long years of research into many subjects for a an array of notable world figures I have found that it is the personal accounts of historic events that most arouse the interest of a reader.

Given this reasoning a personal account of a world historic event is most valuable to future generations as it is an 'on the spot account' and as I say, an hour by hour, blow by blow account of the historic night in world history. Whilst facts can be digested, without the emotion of a eyewitness account they are just lists of events - personal recollection can add a great deal of substance to events.

I would submit that the other personal accounts be re-read, as I say, many are factually incorrect and no one account gives such a wealth of eye witness information of the actual events around Potsdammer Platz on the morning of 9th November 1989 which is where the actual breach of the Berlin Wall took place. Again I submit that my account gives detailed information about who was actually responsible for the breach in the wall and the manner in which the assembled crowd greeted that moment before and after.

I therefore respectfully ask that the 'idea' behind the inclusion of the article 'Fall of the Berlin Wall - A Leap to the Horizon' be revisited and some thought given to the relevance of the personal account in knowledge for historical purposes for those researching the event say on its 100th anniversary and onward years.

Barton Fox (talk) 18:02, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Barton Fox talk page.Libby norman (talk) 18:19, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Nomination of Gaviña Gourmet Coffee for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Gaviña Gourmet Coffee is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Gaviña Gourmet Coffee until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Nominated for deletion by  DGG. Notification delivered by davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  04:36, 1 April 2014 (UTC).

Clements Ribeiro is an awesome suggestion!
You're right - they really should be represented here. SO many good names, so many missing articles... Mabalu (talk) 12:31, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Mabalu's talk page.Libby norman (talk) 12:43, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

I think I fixed it!
Libby, I'm new so I'm not sure if this message is necessary (or annoying!) but I've made the changes requested, and got input from the live chat as well. Please let me know if I should make any other changes. Much appreciated! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Brenden_Shucart Jordangoody (talk) 19:36, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded 10 April on Jordangoody talk page. Libby norman (talk) 11:14, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Christ Holy Sanctified Church of America, Inc
Hello Ms. Norman: Thank you for your feedback. This is my (our) very first time in creating an article for the organization, Christ Holy Sanctified Church (CHSC) so there was a little fogginess regarding submission versus Sandbox, etc.

Regarding the references, I have attempted to add a "Notes" section and the references to the page per Wiki's instruction. I see that it is formatting reference numbers, etc. Also, additional external references (books and other journals) regarding the validity of organization have been updated in the article.

Before his death in 1985, Bishop U.S. King wrote a booklet on the history of the organization from his vantage point - it was never in major publication - but it is yet a valuable and credible resource. There is also the church manual (Discipline) which contains the history and facts of the organization which jive with external publications on the organization. And, like many organization/churches, information concerning the history is documented on the organization's webpage (www.chschurch.org), which I have started referencing.

I trust that we can meet the standards and terms and, even though some references may be limited, everything can be confirmed as true. Oh, yes - hopefully, the article can be updated to be in the neutral tone.

We look forward to working with you and getting an acceptable article regarding the organization published on Wikipedia soon.

Warmest regards, Chschurch2014 (talk) 09:48, 10 April 2014 (UTC)Craig Brown


 * responded on Chschurc2014 talk page.Libby norman (talk) 11:22, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Notification of a June AfC BackLog Drive
 Hello Libby norman:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a  month long Backlog Elimination Drive!

The goal of this drive is to eliminate the backlog of unreviewed articles. The drive is running from June 1, 2014 to June 30, 2014.

Awards will be given out for all reviewers participating in the drive in the form of barnstars at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over articles, so start reviewing articles! Visit the drive's page and help out!

The AfC helper script can assist you in tallying your edits automatically. To view a full list of changes, visit the changelog. Please report bugs and feature requests there, too! Thanks. Sent on behalf of (t) (c) by &#123;&#123;U&#124;&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) using the MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 15:45, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Dave Malloy page
Hello, thank you for your feedback on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Dave_Malloy. I made your and another reviewers suggested changes, removing promotional language, giving further references and replacing all but one reference (for a list of works) to the composer's website. Would you be willing to re-review? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.155.109 (talk) 05:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on talk page. Libby norman (talk) 16:24, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Mark Sheldon Ross OTRS granted
Hello Libby, Awaiting new page below about Mark Sheldon Ross to be released, following OTRS confirmed by your Permission Team early May. What's next from my end? Thank you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_creation/Mark_Sheldon_Ross EdouardGris (talk) 20:16, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on EdouardGris' talk page. Libby norman (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Asparagus Island
Hi Libby Thanks for sorting out my half attempt at my first ever article. Whilst the one you've used is good, there are a couple more pictures of the island on my blog that might sit well on the page - http://islandbaggers.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/disaster-averted-and-our-first-nightbag.html - I don't know how to upload pics - but I am definitely going to learn! Sam — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.34.223.1 (talk) 15:17, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Left message on Sam's talk page – giving tips on uploading images and brief info about copyright protocols. Libby norman (talk) 16:07, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

A page you started (Clements Ribeiro) has been reviewed!
Thanks for creating Clements Ribeiro, Libby norman!

Wikipedia editor Mabalu just reviewed your page, and wrote this note for you:

"Another excellent article, thank you!!"

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Disambiguation link notification for July 24
Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Net-a-Porter, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Alexander Wang. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ* Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Deletion of Bourlaschouwburg
Hello Libby norman,

This page already existed in Dutch and all I wanted to do is to provide the English translation. I am not sure what went wrong and why the page is flagged for deletion. Thanks Eheritage (talk) 14:57, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Eheritage talk page to explain that this is a duplication of an existing article on English Wikipedia containing exactly the same content. Only diff between two was Dutch/English naming. I've added both names in bold to existing article and flagged dupe for deletion. Libby norman (talk) 15:07, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Bourla Theatre did not exist as such but only as Bourlaschouwburg, otherwise I would have not translated it, but you are indeed right in making sure that there is only one page. I agree with that of course, there was a mistake there. Thanks Eheritage (talk) 15:22, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No problems at all. Sometimes these confusions are caused when people adopt different naming conventions – it can be hard to spot those and I just happened to find it while checking it didn't already exist. Best wishes. Libby norman (talk) 15:24, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Stiff + Trevillion
Hi Libby, Thanks for the advice and for the sources you found. Its incredibly helpful! I will work more on the article and then re-submit it when I think its better. Mjtaylor35 (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Response on Mjtaylor talk page. Libby norman (talk) 16:23, 25 July 2014 (UTC)

15:12:03, 27 July 2014 review of submission by Mattginsberg1
My son gave me this page as a birthday present. I don't think it will be too hard to bring it up to snuff (I'm an academic with a worldwide reputation), but he is off doing other things and I wonder if it's ok for me to make the fixes myself. Thanks.

Mattginsberg1 (talk) 15:12, 27 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Responded on Mattginsberg1 talk page advising on the issues re COI/NPOV, etc. Libby norman (talk) 15:50, 27 July 2014 (UTC)

Rebecca and Rowena
So, you have thrown away my submission Rebecca and Rowena. The idea was that it is better to have some nucleus of the article and that the result of searching for the text of the novella would be better linked than not. Thank you for reminding me why it is absolutely stupid idea to believe that bunch of idiots who kill others contributions just to cover their feelings of inferiority and ignorance about the subject they decide about cannot every build something which could be reliable source about anything more complicated than the latest TV show. I should really go and visit the doctor because after many failed attempts to contribute to this stupid project I always try again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceplm (talk • contribs) 07:40, 4 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on Ceplm's talk page. Libby norman (talk) 08:08, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

08:32:39, 4 August 2014 review of submission by Sefdik
I have made some edits taking on board the comments given about OR and langauage. I have made some spelling corrections as well.

Sefdik  /0^0\ (talk) 08:32, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Sheridan Barnett
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 * The bot has spotted the draft version on my Sandbox, so this is not a copyvio. Libby norman (talk) 10:40, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Already noted this on the relevant page. Talk about stupid machines... Mabalu (talk) 10:44, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mabalu, I hadn't even had time to stick my note on the Sandbox saying test version would be deleted shortly and the copyvio note came through – hasn't happened before, so machine must be bored or in August overdrive! Libby norman (talk) 10:53, 6 August 2014 (UTC)

06:45:05, 7 August 2014 review of submission by Sarikasahu
Hi, I don't understand as to why the article is being declined again and again. The reason the content has been taken from softsonic doesn't hold true as we updated the content in Softsonic to sell our product.

Sarikasahu (talk) 06:45, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on their talk page. Libby norman (talk) 10:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

09:57:44, 12 August 2014 review of submission by Monika-D-LO
What part of the article is copy right protected, please?

And wouldn't it be helpful to include that info in the first place?

Monika-D-LO (talk) 09:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Monika-D-Lo, I've started a talk page for you and left a message on it here User talk:Monika-D-LO to explain that I did leave a link to the section I found that was copied. Hope that helps and please feel free to respond here or on your Talk page if you need further explanation. Please remember to sign any messages with four tildes (~ x 4) as this will generate a signature and mean people can find you and respond. Many thanks. Libby norman (talk) 10:29, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

14:41:28, 12 August 2014 review of submission by EmpireGS
Hello, This is my first Wikipedia page that I am creating for my boss, Jerry Kremer. Could you please explain what needs to be done to the page for it to be accepted? Thank you EmpireGS (talk) 14:41, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Responded on EmpireGS talk page. Libby norman (talk) 15:12, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your feedback

I have made many edits. Am I ready for submission

EmpireGS (talk) 18:19, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
 * This looks much better, although I would try to cite your sources properly. If you click to edit mode on your page, place your cursor where the ref is to go and then click onto the Templates option on top left of your workscreen (line under B I, etc) you will have a series of options such as web citation, news citation and so on. You fill in as much info as possible in this box and it will format the citations for you so that they look professional. Fill in the bottom box (ref name – eg, with NYT John Brown) if you have multiple references from the same source and it will ensure the ref is listed once with a, b, c, etc next to it. It just looks more professional. I'd also refer to the subject as Jerry Kremer and Kremer thereafter – Mr sounds rather deferential and isn't normal style. I prefer not to re-review, but once you've finalised just press resubmit and it will be reviewed by another editor – there can be a delay in this as we are all volunteers and have a large backlog of articles. Good luck. Libby norman (talk) 18:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Unspecified source/license for File:Peter Russell evening gown IwM D23778.jpg
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Unspecified source/license for File:Peter Russell evening gown IwM D23778.jpg
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Speedy deletion declined: James Bond (2012 Album)
I have declined this speedy deletion request, because WP:CSD applies only to pages created "in violation of their ban or block". This was created before the user was briefly blocked, so G5 does not apply. JohnCD (talk) 21:15, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi User talk:JohnCD. Thanks for your message. That sounds fine I'll remember to check when the block came into force next time. I have, however, tagged this page as unreferenced. Many thanks. Libby norman (talk) 21:24, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
 * I however, strongly suspect that this is a banned/blocked user. In past one year, I have encountered many accounts, which work in the same area, make few pages in a similar way (un referenced) and then get blocked soon. --Vigyani talkਯੋਗਦਾਨ 00:54, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Wow - another fantastic article.with Peter Russell
You're really doing amazing work here - thank you!! I just wanted to gently point out that the category "Fashion designers" should ideally not contain individuals, please try to narrow it down by nationality where possible, as I notice you tend to add both Category:Fashion designers and a more specific category such as English/British fashion designers, it's not necessary to have both. But a tiny, tiny quibble as what you;re doing is brilliant on such a formerly underrepresented field. I'm really excited that you and user:Edwardx are both actively working to expand this field at the moment. Thank you both! Mabalu (talk) 22:13, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Have to echo Mabalu's comments above - top quality work that anyone would be proud of. These fashion designers are almost always interesting characters, and the field does not get the serious attention it merits. Have had a quick look and it is rather odd that we can find no dates for Peter Russell. Edwardx (talk) 10:49, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you Mabalu and Edwardx – I'm really enjoying sourcing and writing these IncSoc fashion designers but it's very good to have such positive feedback. Peter Russell – who initially seemed to have no back story – started leaping off the page through the various newspaper accounts and that hilarious Norman Parkinson shot in the National Portrait Gallery is an extremely telling portrait I think. Thanks for your help on cats Mabalu – was a bit confused but this explains it. And Edwardx, I also think it is curious that we can't find dates – or a place – of birth or death. Placing him as English seems the best guess at present – in one newspaper account he mentions that he still has a farm in Norfolk and he seems to have been born c1900 from the newspaper description of being in his 50s in 1953 – as long as he didn't make that up! There is a chance, of course, he could have been born in Canada or somewhere else entirely...he may even have changed his name like Michael Sherard/Malcolm Sherrard. Hopefully the mystery may eventually be solved now he has a Wiki page. Libby norman (talk) 15:48, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Ha! I was thinking of starting Elspeth Champcommunal and now I see that's your next project. Definitely looking forward to it! I think Worth London really needs its own article too to separate it from the Paris house as they became two completely separate entities from the 1920s onwards - different management, different designers, only the name really in common - and Worth London of course outlived the Paris house by over ten years. Mabalu (talk) 23:57, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Just started Maureen Baker. As with Peter Russell, very hard to find any dates or places. Edwardx (talk) 11:55, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Any input or guidance gratefully received Mabalu as she's proving even more elusive than Mr Russell! I agree with you that Worth London needs its own page. Great to see Maureen Baker Edwardx – I didn't know the name  even though my mother had a couple of Susan Small dresses (one was a fabulous purple embroidered cocktail dress) and I was thinking about the brand only the other day. A somewhat offbeat means of referencing, but you should be able to approximate a date of birth from this, in 2011 . And this article – which looks to be designed to win over the 'housewife vote' – suggests Baker for Susan Small was also worn by Margaret Thatcher  when she wasn't rummaging for bargains in M&S! I'll keep an eye out – and if you do you happen upon any information about Elspeth it would be most gratefully received. Libby norman (talk) 13:05, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Started Susan Small too. But who was Leslie Carr Jones? Man or woman? Fashion is a rich seam (ho ho). Edwardx (talk) 15:21, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Regarding Susan Small, I think Jean Muir's early history could benefit from some backup research and fact checking - I am seeing conflicting claims about Susan Small and Jean Muir's first label Jane & Jane - a number of sources say that Susan Small backed Jane and Jane from the beginning, others say that Jane & Jane was sold to Susan Small in 1966, some sources say Courtauld's bought it (including the obituary I used as the original cite to support the Susan Small sale - which has flummoxed me as I can't see why I would have made that mistake originally.) Was Susan Small connected to Courtaulds? In which case that might explain it... Mabalu (talk) 15:48, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed it is unclear. Christies suggest Jane & Jane formed in 1962, became part of the Susan Small organisation, and then that was bought by Courtaulds in 1966. This ad shows Susan Small were using Courtaulds fabrics in 1953, so there may long have been a connection. Plenty to puzzle out, but at least Christies is a WP:RS, even if it turns out to be wrong. It is hard to find good sources in this area. Edwardx (talk) 17:42, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Alice Pollock
Thanks from me and the wiki Victuallers (talk) 00:03, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

15:55:11, 24 August 2014 review of submission by 193.205.6.111
193.205.6.111 (talk) 15:55, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Sir, I have edited the present page and now I think it fits the Wikipedia editorial guidelines. Can you please supervise it again? Thanks
 * Responded on User talk:193.205.6.111 Libby norman (talk) 16:54, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Draft:Répertoire international de la presse musicale
User:Bknysak asked for help at The Teahouse and so far there are no answers. I don't like to see questions go unanswered but I don't have a response. I was wondering if you had any ideas about how to get help. Thanks.— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  20:40, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Vchimpanzee, thanks for your message. Nor do I like to see questions go unanswered and I'm sorry if I've provided what turned out to be unhelpful advice – I reviewed what I'd said again this morning and was wondering if I was dumping a problem your way. My problem is this seems to be a very specialist area. What I'm going to do now is ask a question at WikiProject Music talk page to see if I can get someone who has experience in classical, and specifically libraries of classical, to give this a look. What I need to do is get them to tell me if this looks to be notable, first and foremost, and the rest can then follow through from that. Would you be able to post the question that was asked at Teahouse here, just so I can see what this user said. Many thanks for alerting me and I will report back – keeping this on my talk page. Libby norman (talk) 21:45, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Moved from The Teahouse— Vchimpanzee  •  talk  •  contributions  •  22:11, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * In a draft I have created (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bknysak/sandbox), there is a very long bibliography of works. The submission was rejected due to this (the other issues have been resolved). Should I simply split the list off into another "List of..." page?Bknysak (talk) 15:56, 27 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Hello, saw you at the Teahouse. Might this similar list be of some guidance? Best, w.carter -Talk  23:03, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

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DYK for Peter Russell (fashion designer)
— HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  12:02, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Angele Delanghe
And another cracking article! A great designer image here: http://sheepandchick.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/angele-delanghe.html Mabalu (talk) 11:48, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much Mabalu – IncSoc/British couture of the era is starting to look a bit more balanced now we have three female designers with biographies and I've uploaded the picture you suggested, which is lovely. Risked not cropping it as photographer appears to be unknown. It will be good to see more info on the Rahvis sisters...who are mentioned as dressing Audrey Withers and the Vogue team during wartime (alongside Delanghe), so obviously had been around the block a few times by the time they became members of IncSoc. Libby norman (talk) 14:01, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

John Boyd, Aage and millliners in general...
Blimey - I've just realised that there isn't an article on John Boyd the milliner here - or indeed, for Aage Thaarup who REALLY ought to have one too. Now I'm thinking on it, there's Claude Saint Cyr too - it seems that the only (British based!) milliner of that era to have an article is Simone Mirman and only because I did one years ago! Just wondered if they were on your radar at all as it seems every time I start thinking about a new subject you're already whistling up an article on then...! I'll pop these onto Requested for now... Mabalu (talk) 16:31, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * No they weren't, but I'll definitely look out for them. Aage Thaarup particularly sounds like a crazy guy and lots of great source material. John Boyd definitely needs a page – there may even be an easy image source if a hat he made can be located on Wikimedia Commons (I'm thinking Middleton or Diana Princess of Wales). There are one or two other bygone-age milliners coming up in source material, so I need to start keeping a note. Libby norman (talk) 16:50, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Aage is utterly adorable. his autobiography is brilliant and he was clearly as mad as a box of frogs, but at the same time a really, really sweet and generous guy who seems to have had nothing but love for everyone and everything. I've been meaning to write him up for a while! Mabalu (talk) 17:01, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Working my way in through Philip Somerville (who only died last week) and Otto Lucas and am now researching Aage. Libby norman (talk) 14:36, 22 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Elspeth Champcommunal
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:05, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for John Michael Ingram
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Michael Sherard
— HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  12:01, 5 October 2014 (UTC)

Eolienne and other fabrics.
Glad to see you're tackling some of the generic fabric articles now too - I've been working away at these bit by bit, recently sorted out Metal lace (absolutely astounding there was NO article for any of the metal laces!) and expanded Crepe (textile) quite massively. although I've been looking more at individual garment articles such as Sailor dress. They make a nice break from biographies as they tend not to require quite as much research. Mabalu (talk) 21:10, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note Mabalu. Yes, I'm 'between biographies' and fancied a change and it's good to be getting some red areas turned blue. I have been looking at the list of fur articles to do and wonder if this could be rationalised around rabbit at least. I looked to start Coney fur and found this already existed as Rabbit hair – a somewhat odd title I know but for now I've stuck with it and expanded a bit as well as adding a further image. There is quite a bit more to say but I wondered if a few of the other suggestions on the fur list, beaver dyed cony, etc, could be covered off within this article – I've already mentioned some of the names that were used for rabbit replicating other animals and found a useful ref. Would it be best to put them all together into one comprehensive article? I did tentatively take off blocked lapin from the list as blocking is another word for shearing – I found a ref that clarifies this and put this in the rabbit hair article. Let me know what you think as I'm happy to go with individuals or see if I can work up a single 'mother bunny' of an article.


 * Good to see IncSoc getting more meat on its bones by the way...I seem to recall a Times reference about Mattli joining later than I'd thought (something about not formally signed up in 1947 although attending meetings, so I need to go back and check that). There is also quite a lot of other stuff in old Guardian and Observer editions particularly – one fashion editor had a bit of a bee in her bonnet about it, so it's on my list to go over again when I'm not looking for an individual designer. Libby norman (talk) 23:09, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
 * A mother bunny article sounds good to me. It's a start - you can put basic info on each type in there, as with Velvet or Crepe (textile), and if someone later on works up a fuller article on a particular type of velvet or crepe it can be linked from the list-of-types entry in the main article. Mabalu (talk) 10:03, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Philip Somerville
— HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  12:02, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

Foreign-language articles
Hi: Just a note about tagging articles like Troca Ticket (now deleted as an ad): being in a foreign language in and of itself is not a reason for speedy deletion; being in a foreign language where there is an article on the topic on the Wikipedia in that language is (A2) and if there is already an English-language article here on the topic, that's a subset of A10, but simply being in a foreign language is the first on the list of non-criteria. Rather, report it at WP:Pages needing translation into English. Thanks for doing new page patrol! Yngvadottir (talk) 12:36, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much for the advice Yngvadottir, I realised after I'd done this I'd most likely got it wrong. I'm very experienced at Afc, but have only recently begun looking at new page patrol, so am still finding my way round. At Afc, foreign language articles are not passed, so I had assumed it would be the same – although I was considering deleting it for non notability or advert. Lesson being, I need to do a bit more reading! Would you consider that it would have been OK to delete for non notability, as it was also unreferenced? Libby norman (talk) 12:48, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, since my Portuguese is next to non-existent I would have tagged it A7 for no claim of notability. But being unreferenced is also not in itself a reason for speedy deletion - speedy deletion really requires a hopeless article, way, way below the standard for rejection at AfC; for anything that might be notable but is just badly executed in some way, apply a tag (such as "unreferenced" or where applicable BLP-PROD) or, for a foreign-language article since those are hard to assess, report it at Pages Needing Translation. Or in some cases they can be improved - sometimes the editor has just started and will soon make it better, sometimes there's an error that can be fixed like an open ref tag causing the references not to display. Yngvadottir (talk) 12:58, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks Yngvadottir...very useful. Mostly I've picked the obviously hopeless/unsuitable when I've flagged for deletion, but was concerned I might have been too hasty on a couple. Will do a bit more reading. I appreciate the advice. Libby norman (talk) 13:15, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Otto Lucas
— HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?  12:04, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Sara Berman (fashion designer)
So this article has come up at AFD - I've been fixing and sorting it out a bit but wondered if you had any additional sources or cites of your own to add to my own fixes? I certainly don't think it should be deleted (as you can tell!) Mabalu (talk) 23:29, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Mabalu, I've taken a look at this and done quite a lot of infill. Unfortunately, I was doing one of my long edits (I always forget to save in between), so we crossed over on edits. I've taken a look but can you make sure that I haven't wiped out any of your edits. Loads of material on her – definitely meets notability, and that is just The Times refs. Libby norman (talk) 14:10, 12 November 2014 (UTC)
 * All looks good, thank you so much for your input! I had been keeping an eye on it for a while (I forget why it was originally on my watchlist) so the nom certainly gave a fillip towards fixing it. Thank you again Mabalu (talk) 18:12, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Copyright checks when performing AfC reviews
Hello. This message is part of a mass mailing to people who appear active in reviewing articles for creation submissions. First of all, thank you for taking part in this important work! I'm sorry this message is a form letter – it really was the only way I could think of to covey the issue economically. Of course, this also means that I have not looked to see whether the matter is applicable to you in particular. The issue is in rather large numbers of copyright violations ("copyvios") making their way through AfC reviews without being detected (even when easy to check, and even when hallmarks of copyvios in the text that should have invited a check, were glaring). A second issue is the correct method of dealing with them when discovered. If you don't do so already, I'd like to ask for your to help with this problem by taking on the practice of performing a copyvio check as the first step in any AfC review. The most basic method is to simply copy a unique but small portion of text from the draft body and run it through a search engine in quotation marks. Trying this from two different paragraphs is recommended. (If you have any question about whether the text was copied from the draft, rather than the other way around (a "backwards copyvio"), the Wayback Machine is very useful for sussing that out.) If you do find a copyright violation, please do not decline the draft on that basis. Copyright violations need to be dealt with immediately as they may harm those whose content is being used and expose Wikipedia to potential legal liability. If the draft is substantially a copyvio, and there's no non-infringing version to revert to, please mark the page for speedy deletion right away using. If there is an assertion of permission, please replace the draft article's content with. Some of the more obvious indicia of a copyvio are use of the first person ("we/our/us..."), phrases like "this site", or apparent artifacts of content written for somewhere else ("top", "go to top", "next page", "click here", use of smartquotes, etc.); inappropriate tone of voice, such as an overly informal tone or a very slanted marketing voice with weasel words; including intellectual property symbols (™,®); and blocks of text being added all at once in a finished form with no misspellings or other errors. I hope this message finds you well and thanks again you for your efforts in this area. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 02:20, 18 November 2014 (UTC). Sent via--MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:20, 18 November 2014 (UTC)

Rejection of Article On BlackHouse Media
The submission has been edited. Additional links have been added to support the claims made in the article. No promotional statements were made in the article.

I do not see any other reasons why this article should not be approved. Or what do you think? Hephef (talk) 09:52, 18 November 2014 (UTC) Hephef (talk) 09:46, 18 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Hephef, I've taken a look and think there is still a bit of work you could do to improve. I won't be re-reviewing as I think it's better to let a second reviewer take a look. Improvements I'd suggest you could make are to


 * Format references properly as they aren't right at the moment.
 * Improve your references – guidelines on good and bad references will tell you LinkedIn doesn't count. You need to supply independent write-ups in reliable media sources that support the statements in the article. Quite a lot of material, such as your client list, remains largely unsourced.
 * Remove linkouts from the text – these are subject to link rot and also tend to look promotional so either convert them into references or leave them out. But Wikilinks (links to other Wikipedia pages) are fine in the text.

If you need any help on referencing or other points I've mentioned, you can get advice from the Teahouse (I sent a link to your Talk page) or ask me a question here. Hope that helps. Libby norman (talk) 11:05, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Thoughts on Riding Mac Fashion?
Any thoughts on Riding Mac Fashion - just reminded of this article by a bot move when it popped up on my newsfeed. Appears to hold a ton of original research, some of which is actually sort of kinky. The writing is... remarkable, I think is the only thing to describe lines like "It uniquely ripples and rustles with a susurrus as it moves and radiates a captivating aroma varying subtly with ambient temperature." Just glorious. Do you think this can be rescued, and is the title even the right one for what's in the article? Mabalu (talk) 13:50, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Mabalu, and blimey! I started searching and found myself very quickly in a strange and arcane subculture. This, for instance whispers (can I say 'susurrates'?) of a discreet world of annual dinners in macs. Who knew! Lakeland Elements takes us on to equally strange territory...all a bit Carry On. There is definitely a distinct item of clothing called a riding mac – traditionally double-layered rubber and knee straps to hold the thing down while riding, plus back vent to keep lower back and saddle dry. After reading a long and nostalgic thread on Horse & Hound, I have found what looks to be a modern-day version by Toggi  although not in double rubber, unfortunately. It seems to me Riding Mac Fashion mixes that up with more general stuff about raincoats/macs – some interesting film references, but all too original and inadequately sourced, as you noted. I wonder if some material would be better split off to improve Mackintosh and Raincoat (assuming some reliable sources can be found to support material), with this article renamed Riding mac and then focused purely on that design. I also think Mackintosh has been somewhat hijacked to talk about one brand – mackintosh/mac is a far more generic term in most people's understanding. What do you think? Libby norman (talk) 18:44, 28 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Sounds very reasonable - sounds appropriate to condense and maybe redirect Riding mac to Mackintosh. Yes to salvaging what we can and redirecting, and maybe a stub article for Riding mac if there is just enough to warrant it as separate from mackintosh, although I wonder whether Riding coat or Equestrian wear would be more appropriate to cover the general idea of clothing for riding? A lot of the cites in the current article are very poor quality. What's in the current article does seem to be closely related to Rubber fetishism although I am sure the connoisseurs would be VERY upset to be linked with PVC basques and fetish heels. There's probably scope for an article on the fetish (or shall we say appreciation?) but it needs to be done a bit more tidily than this, or at least covered in a short passage on the appropriate article instead of spattering the whole thing with salivation. Mabalu (talk) 20:52, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually I prefer the idea of Riding coat. That would present opps to get much better historical images and talk about fashion and technical angle – which I imagine has better sources. This could be similar to Jodphur or Car coat (that's one I enjoyed researching!). The more I look at it, the more I think riding mac is so closely aligned to the stockman/drovers coat (Driza-Bone, etc) that might be a better way to research the subject and perhaps it could be a separate article but linked to Mackintosh, which could also be improved. Probably going to leave the fetish/appreciation angle to someone more knowledgeable! Libby norman (talk) 18:09, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

DYK for Jill Stuart
Mike V •  Talk  18:59, 12 December 2014 (UTC)