User talk:Liz/Archive 43

Tekla Åberg
Could you please undeleted this article? It was created by a sock with UPE and COI issues, but it covers a non-controversial 19th century teacher and is unlikely to have issues related to their reason for being blocked; I believe the encyclopedia is better with this article kept, rather than deleted. BilledMammal (talk) 00:24, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, BilledMammal,
 * I saw your request at WP:REFUND. The policy of restoring CSD G5s is unclear to me, I've seen some admins give a flat "No, no way" while others believe that it's possible if a new editor "takes responsibility" for the article (which is pretty vague, I'll admit). I don't want to restore a page that will just be tagged again for deletion.
 * So I've contacted another admin to ask what they think. It might take a while to have an email discussion but don't worry, I won't forget your request. There were other articles by this sockpuppet that I also had questions about. Liz Read! Talk! 00:41, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you, there is no rush; I haven't looked at the other articles. BilledMammal (talk) 00:57, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Liz, I just wanted to ask if there was any update on this? BilledMammal (talk) 13:49, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Liz; would it be better if I take this to WP:DRV? BilledMammal (talk) 01:19, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, BilledMammal, I lost track of this discussion. This article was a valid deletion based on CSD G5 grounds as the majority of edits made to this article were by a ban-evading editor. I think my deletion would be supported at Deletion Review.
 * But I reviewed the SPI case, Sockpuppet investigations/Mostly shoaib/Archive, and if you look at the last comment on the archive page, there is support for being more flexible with CSD G5 designations when the articles were clearly not promotional or paid editing. So, on the basis of that comment by an SPI clerk, I have restored this article. Please let me know if it gets tagged for deletion in the future. Liz Read! Talk! 01:29, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * No worries, I do that sometimes too. I agree that your deletion was proper, but given that creation by a sock merely creates eligibility for deletion, rather than a requirement for deletion, I don't believe it was beneficial to the encyclopedia and believe there would be a consensus for restoring it, with DRV being the most obvious venue to hold such a discussion even if it is usually used to declare the deletion itself improper.
 * When I have time, I'll have a look through their other creations and bring any suitable for recreation to you, if you don't mind? BilledMammal (talk) 01:48, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, now that I've done one restoration, it makes future decisions easier. Did they have a list of articles on a previous version of their User page? Liz Read! Talk! 01:51, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, they did, although looking through them I don't believe all are suitable for recreation; most appear to have no possible relation to COI or UPE editing, but some do. BilledMammal (talk) 02:05, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

List of Thumb Wrestling Federation episodes
Would List of Thumb Wrestling Federation episodes qualify as a G8 speedy "dependent on a nonexistant or deleted page"? I think it does. Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 16:38, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello to you this morning, TenPoundHammer,
 * I don't think that criteria fits, myself, but I'm not going to untag the article. Have there been instances on Wikipedia where we had a "subarticle", like an episode list, without the parent article, the series? We'll see what other admins think about it. Liz Read! Talk! 16:46, 1 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have never seen a "list of episodes" where the series doesn't exist. To me, it follows the same logic as an A9 deletion. If the artist doesn't have an article, then the album is presumed not to be notable and can safely be speedied absent any assertation of notability. Would the same not be true of a TV show and a list of episodes? Ten Pound Hammer • (What did I screw up now?) 16:53, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Louis Partridge
Hi there.

A few months ago you deleted Louis Partridge's page. I would like to Draftify the article. Since the reason was WP:NACTOR, the fact that the subject of the page has several upcoming roles (including one in a show premiering in less than a month and another one announced just today) makes me think that he would qualify the criteria in the near future. It seems a shame to have to rebuild the article from scratch, but I am unsure what to do to Draftify the page. Is my posting here enough or should I do something else?

Regards, Thariqziyad (talk) 01:33, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Thariqziyad,
 * Sure, I'll get to this a little later tonight. Liz Read! Talk! 01:34, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Thariqziyad,
 * Sorry for the delay in restoring this contested PROD. It didn't need to be draftified but I moved it to Draft:Louis Partridge any way because PRODs that are contested are often immediately sent to AFD upon restoration so I think you'll have more time to work on the article and improve while it stays in Draft space. Good luck! Liz Read! Talk! 16:46, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Much obliged, Liz. Thank you! Thariqziyad (talk) 00:15, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Almagest (journal)
Hi Liz, although I don't really have anything against the soft delete here, I'm not sue it's admissible: the article was PRODed and then dePRODed back in 2012. If you feel that this is so long ago that we can ignore it, that'd be fine with me, but should perhaps be mentioned in the close. --Randykitty (talk) 07:18, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Randykitty,
 * You are absolutely right, I don't see how I missed seeing that earlier PROD, by you, in the page history. I decided to revert my AFD closure and relist the discussion. I could just straight out Delete the article but I'd prefer letting a different admin reevaluate the discussion. I appreciate you coming to me to point out my error so I could rectify it, thank you. Liz Read! Talk! 16:41, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Grandpa Gohan
Hi Liz, thank you for taking the time to close the above discussion. I note that you have also salted the page Grandpa Gohan as suggested. Is it also possible for you to salt Grandpa Son Gohan as well to prevent any potential editors from recreating the same? The reason why I suggested salting the other page was because the other page has a history of being frequently recreated without consideration for Wikipedia's notability guidelines, and Grandpa Gohan was simply the latest variant of the persistent disruption from Grandpa Son Gohan. At least one other editor who participated in the discussion agreed with my observation of the history of disruption. Haleth (talk) 08:08, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Haleth,
 * ✅ It was also a double redirect so I fixed that, too. Liz Read! Talk! 16:50, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

I need suggestions
Hi, Hope you are fine there. Can we review the drafted article (Article for creation) upon personal request placed on our talk page? Fade258 (talk) 15:42, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Fade258,
 * Are you referring to User talk:Fade258/Archive 2? I see from the userbox on your User page that you are an AFC reviewer so you have some training in doing reviews. I think AFC reviewers' response these kinds of requests varies, some editors accommodate these requests but I think most AFC reviewers insist on doing their own selection of drafts to review, often by age of the draft or picking them randomly, rather than doing reviewing drafts by request. I assume this is because if they did respond to individual requests, their talk pages might become besieged by editors looking for help reviewing their drafts. But it's your decision.
 * I don't review drafts myself so I think you might find more helpful advice at WT:AFC or by contacting an experienced reviewer directly on their talk page. Sorry not to be of more assistance in this matter. Liz Read! Talk! 17:01, 3 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Ok, Thank you mam for giving me a right direction and suggestions. Fade258 (talk) 23:59, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

Deletion - Crowfield Airfield
Hi, I think it would be beneficial to undelete the article about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowfield_Airfield

It's privately owned, but is very much still an active airfield open to the public, I landed there only a few weeks ago.

Happy to add some references if you want?

Cheers! James JamesKingdom (talk) 18:29, 4 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, JamesKingdom,
 * Crowfield Airfield was tagged for Proposed deletion and no one challenged the tagging so the article was deleted. It was part of a group of private airstrips and small airports articles that were tagged for deletion because they were not considered notable.
 * But any page deleted for a "PROD" can be restored upon being contested so I have done so. The article still might be tagged for an Article for Deletion discussion in the future but this would involve at least a week's period of discussion. Some of these small airports that were considered for deletion have come up at AFD and opinion is definitely mixed on whether or not they are considered notable by Wikipedia standards. References to reliable sources, probably in this case, local newspapers would definitely help establish notability.
 * Should you want to get more involved on Wikipedia and participate in these discussions, you might consider becoming involved in WikiProject Aviation...they seem to be one of the more active WikiProjects. Glad I could help! Liz Read! Talk! 18:40, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Delete if eligible
Hi Liz, please see https://w.wiki/58Df, i tagded three article for deletion as those were created by a LTA sock. I think we should not encourage sock by keeping them. I have no problem if someone else create those articles. Please delete them if they eligible, if not decline. Thank you. --আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 19:19, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, আফতাবুজ্জামান,
 * Thank you for the link to the WP:AN comment. I'll look over these pages as soon as I'm done with the task I'm working on. If there are contributions to the article from other editors though, I typically don't delete pages tagged for CSD G5s. Liz Read! Talk! 19:25, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, I didn't delete Draft:Paradoxical Sajid because the page creator, Botrank1000, is unconnected at this point to the sockpuppetry. Pak-Bangla language was created by an IP who also hasn't been connected to sockpuppetry but, as you know, it is being considered for deletion at Articles for deletion/Pak-Bangla language. I did delete Khandaker Abdullah Jahangir because the IP account that created the article had been blocked by a checkuser, NinjaRobotPirate.
 * I think I'm a little stricter than some admins about CSD G5s in that I need to see that the page creator is confirmed as being the sockpuppet of a blocked editor before deleting a page, not just a suspected sockpuppet. I did untag Pak-Bangla language because there is an active AFD discussion going on and, for me, deletion discussions are more significant than a quick speedy deletion unless there are serious problems with copyright or BLP violations that need to be taken care of immediately. Liz Read! Talk! 19:52, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Please review Postjer Ltd
Hi Liz, hope you are well. I just submit a draft for [Ltd|Postjer Ltd] about the information I gathered online for this so we can help the community that needs to know more about this company and CMS.

Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Techinalbania (talk • contribs) 22:44, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi
Hi Liz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sara Tarannum Akther (talk • contribs) 00:08, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

File PRODs
Can you please explain why you deleted these files despite the fact that you nominated them, in direct violation of WP:PROD which requires an uninvolved administrator to deal with tbem? ✗ plicit  00:16, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * File:Evantattoo1.jpg
 * File:Evantattoo2color.jpg
 * File:Evantattoo3.jpg
 * File:Evantattoolegpiece1.jpg
 * Hello, Explicit,
 * You know that I ordinarily leave pages I've PROD'd for you to delete, you, more than anyone else here, know my editing habits. You examine my contributions and logs on a daily basis. I can't make a mistake without you bringing it to my attention or someone else. I wouldn't be surprised if you maintained a list somewhere of every error I've made in the last two years. Do you want me to restore these files so that you can then delete them?
 * You know, Explicit, you make your share of mistakes but I don't come to your talk page to point them out to you. You have deleted PRODs that had already been PROD'd before. You delete files that shouldn't be speedy deleted. You do batch deletions when you should be examining each page individually. But I give you space because, for some reason, you despise me. There are tasks on Wikipedia that I have been doing faithfully for years that you try to usurp, I have no idea why, maybe it is simply the pursuit of more page deletions. You are rude to me and make unjustified personal attacks against me on noticeboards. But, unlike you, I don't go to WP:ANI, life is too short so I just focus on the work. Yes, I probably should have left these four, old personal photos of an editor's tattoos for you to delete but I got busy and just deleted them.
 * There, you got an acknowledgement that you were correct. What else are you looking for, for me to resign over this? Isn't looking over my shoulder kind of a waste of your time? Could you move on to focus your attention on someone else for a few days or months? You know, people like vandals who do actual damage to the project? I think that would be a more constructive use of the time that you spend on Wikipedia rather than looking for "Gotcha!" moments. Now, back to work. Liz Read! Talk! 00:44, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * First of all, I highly suggest you retract your baseless accusations of wikihounding and tab keeping, you are well within WP:NPA territory. Believe me, I do not care about you in the slightest. I was aware these files were up for deletion because I saw them at CAT:PROD, so I naturally expected them to be there when I logged in this morning. I brought this to your attention as you shouldn't be deleting pages you tagged with PROD. It's not that deep.
 * Wow, I delete things all the time that shouldn't be deleted and I don't examine pages when I use batch deletion. That's rich coming from you, considering the amount of times this issue has repeatedly been brought to your attention. Please feel to cite the plethora of instances this has occurred, as it seems you are keeping track of me. Otherwise, you're right back to NPA territory.
 * "There are tasks on Wikipedia that I have been doing faithfully for years that you try to usurp"—Ah, there it is. The WP:OWN/gatekeeping mentality you have long denied. Over what, me tagging empty categories? Where was this energy when you moved into AFD, RFD, and TFD? Or is this a one-way street where I'm made to look like the bad guy anytime I do... anything?
 * You're still hung up on that one ANI thread? Did that even occur this year? In fact, I had to go search for it: it's from August. Get that chip off your shoulder. ✗  plicit  01:41, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, dear Explicit,
 * Now I understand why you chose your username.
 * My talk page has been visited by trolls, vandals and sockpuppets. But in all of the years I have edited here, I have never said this to anyone before: You are not welcome to post here. If you need to give me an obligatory notice, then post it and leave. I'll chat with almost anyone, offer help or advice, explain my actions, accept constructive criticism but I'm done with your personal animosity towards me. Good bye. Liz Read! Talk! 18:30, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * P.S. Oh, and until you brought me to ANI because you thought I was trying to "intimidate" you (that's rich), the only other time an editor started a discussion about me on ANI was because I didn't post a notification on their talk page after tagging a category they created for deletion. That is the reason why I post so many deletion notifications and some day, I don't know when, there will be an editor who is upset that you didn't notify them when you deleted a page they created. That's my own little bit of crystal balling there. Have a nice life and good luck with your pursuit of reaching #1. Liz Read! Talk! 18:49, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Yippee (noodles)
FYI, after you declined the improper G7 tag, the creator came along and did G7-tag it. So I've honored that request, but have also left both accounts {{subst:maq}}, since it's just a touch suspicious for one user to have correctly guessed that another wanted to G7 a page. (At a glance, the EIA looks pretty damning too.) --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 06:14, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Tamzin,
 * I am heading to bed so don't have time to look into this but the editor who tagged the article CSD G7 (which they didn't create) did create a different article with almost the same page title. So, I thought they were trying to eliminate a competing article by tagging it for deletion. Did you check the original taggers contribution history? You might find an almost identical article only it was only edited by the page tagger while the original article, which I guess you deleted, had a number of different contributors who worked on it.
 * I hope my explanation doesn't make this more confusing. Liz Read! Talk! 06:31, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The only substantive edits to the one I deleted were by the creator; the only others were an AfC decline, an image removal, a copyvio removal, and then the invalid G7 and your removal of it. But I hadn't noticed Draft:Yippee (noodle). Thanks for pointing that out... The plot thickens. More for me to ask the two (or one) of them about. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 06:35, 5 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, I didn't really analyze the page history, I just noted that the page tagger wasn't the page creator and that several other editors had contributed to the draft. After I declined the CSD, I just moved on. I have no idea what connection there is between the two articles or why the editors seem to be drawing so much attention to themselves. Maybe they are both associated with the company and were told to go write an article on it? Any way, good luck figuring that out! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 06:40, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

G5 on categories
You may be interested in participating in Wikipedia talk:Criteria for speedy deletion. I'm trying to get a definite answer on the G5 criteria in regards to categories. Steel1943 (talk) 17:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Steel1943,
 * Thanks for letting me know about this discussion. If would be an absolute mess to delete a non-empty category, the page tagger would have to go remove every page from the category before it could be deleted. Transcluded templates would be another absolute chore. I think it's just simpler to bring the cases to WP:CFD and WP:TFD where they have processes to untangle these pages if it's decided to delete these pages that have been created by block-evading editors. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 17:26, 7 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I hope you understand I do understand what you mean by this, especially since we've ran across this roadblock before. I'm thinking it's time to revise how that criterion is worded since what is worded there is apparently not what is done in practice. (I'm not big on gray areas when it comes to the technical wording of things, and in this case, I think the "gray area" here somewhat contradicts the current wording of the criterion.) Steel1943  (talk) 17:32, 7 May 2022 (UTC)

Balen Shah
Hi, Hope you are doing well and may be fine there. Recently, you had deleted the article of Balen Shah which has been in AFD process and you had draftify that article into Draft:Balen Shah 2 but there is still another draft Draft:Balen Shah. So, I request you to delete one drafted article as your wish. Thank you! Fade258 (talk) 05:52, 8 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Fade258,
 * I've been in this situation before, years ago with two versions of a draft. When I deleted one copy, I was quickly instructed by another admin that being a duplicate draft is not a valid reason for deletion. But I can turn one into a redirect so I will look at them tomorrow and see which one is in better shape. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:57, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – May 2022
News and updates for administrators from the past month (April 2022).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Colin M
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg David.Monniaux • Fribbler • Grue • Kpjas • West.andrew.g



CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Ks0stm

Oversighter changes
 * Gnome-colors-view-refresh.svg Ks0stm

Guideline and policy news
 * Following an RfC, a change has been made to the administrators inactivity policy. Under the new policy, if an administrator has not made at least 100 edits over a period of 5 years they may be desysopped for inactivity.
 * Following a discussion on the bureaucrat's noticeboard, a change has been made to the bureaucrats inactivity policy.

Technical news
 * The ability to undelete the associated talk page when undeleting a page has been added. This was the 11th wish of the 2021 Community Wishlist Survey.
 * A public status system for WMF wikis has been created. It is located at https://www.wikimediastatus.net/ and is hosted separately to WMF wikis so in the case of an outage it will remain viewable.

Arbitration
 * Remedy 2 of the St Christopher case has been rescinded following a motion. The remedy previously authorised administrators to place a ban on single-purpose accounts who were disruptively editing on the article St Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine or related pages from those pages.

Discuss this newsletter

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:34, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Advice needed to get an editor to leave me alone
Smasongarrison (talk) 01:09, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Archive issues
May i ask why my edits to NeverTry4Me's archives have been reverted? I was fixing the fact that, at some point, his archiving was set up incorrectly, causing archives to be placed in different formats and all over the place. I was simply condensing them to have them be in the correct order, as well as respecting the size limit (See this conversation). Thanks. Aidan9382 (talk) 06:48, 11 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Seen comment on my talkpage, thanks for clarifying. You can ignore this. Aidan9382 (talk) 06:54, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Aidan9382,
 * I posted a message on your Talk page. I can't take your word for it that another editor wants their User page deleted. They need to post a deletion tag themselves. It's great that you wanted to help someone out but a CSD G7 tag has to come from the page creator, not from a third party. I'm sure you wouldn't want me to tag your User pages because I thought they should be deleted, unless there is some content that violates policy, the request for deletion for User pages has to come from you, not another editor. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 06:56, 11 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Understandable. Thanks for clarifying. Aidan9382 (talk) 06:58, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Live with rule promise you that you be happy
Rule number 1 is stay happy and be strong

Rule number 2 is never allow a people to being you down Kabelo nkwazi (talk) 19:06, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Criterion G6 for speedy deletions
Hi Liz. I really appreciate your speedy response to my request for deletion of the redirect page "Australian little penguin” and the redirect page “Galápagos penguin”. I’m new-ish to Wikipedia, so I’m approaching you respectfully with the intent to learn.

Look at criterion G6 for technical deletions. “This is for uncontroversial maintenance, including:[…] Deleting redirects or other pages blocking page moves”.

I assumed that the speedy deletions that I requested were trivial housekeeping, and thus covered by CSD G6.

Regarding the Australian little penguin, almost all Wikipedia articles about animal species that are still alive today or are recently extinct use their English name for the title of the page. I recently had success with a similar effort to change the title of an article from a scientific name to an English name.

Regarding the Galápagos penguin, there is a good mix of articles that do or do not bother to include accents in the title. To be honest, I don’t care much about this issue relative to the Australian little penguin question. Still, I feel like the accent is a little more professional.

Have a good day, Columbianmammoth (talk) 7:59, 12 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Columbianmammoth,
 * If I remember rightly, you had tagged some redirects for CSD G6 deletion which is for uncontroversial deletions. The problem was with your tagging. With speedy deletion, we have very strict criteria that have to be met. You can't just say "Delete" and then offer a long explanation for why you want a page deletion. A tagged page either meets the CSD criteria or it doesn't and I didn't understand your explanation.
 * If you want to argue for why a redirect page should be deleted, I think it would be appropriate to either nominate the page at WP:RFD or use the CSD G6 Move option in Twinkle where you state the page you want to be moved to a new title. Most admins will not delete a page under CSD G6 without first looking to see what page is being asked to be moved so they can assess whether or not this is good idea. I encourage you to make use of Twinkle for any tagging of pages, admins are very familiar with the way it works. I hope this explanation helps you understand my actions a bit more. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:38, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

PA Server Monitor deletion
Hi Liz. I see that you deleted the draft for an article about PA Server Monitor. I had been planning on making some edits and resubmitting, but got distracted and didn't get back to it in time. Would it be possible to undelete so I can try to fix the problems on the article? And I appologize if this isn't the proper way to go about this - noob here :)

Have a nice day, Dnebeker (talk) 7:51 AM (CST) 12 May 2022
 * Hello, Dnebeker,
 * I'm sorry for the delay in responding to your request. I can lose track of messages on my talk page at times.
 * ✅ I've restored PA Server Monitor which was deleted via PROD. Please know that this page can very well be nominated for deletion at WP:AFD so I'd read over the grounds offered for deletion and see about addressing them. Good luck! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:29, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Faegre Drinker
Hello,

A page that I edited and worked on extensively (Faegre Drinker) was deleted by you on April 24, 2022. It was flagged due to conflict of interest and vandalism violations. I wasn't aware of how to disclose COI, but I will work to resolve that and do it going forward. My main question is, how do I get the original Faegre Drinker page back? I appreciate any help you can provide.

HilaryLynn320 (talk) 15:59, 12 May 2022 (UTC)HilaryLynn320
 * Hello, HilaryLynn320,
 * I'm sorry for the delay in responding to your inquiry, I sometimes miss messages that are in the middle of the page as I look at the bottom of the page for new messages.
 * This article was deleted via Proposed deletion which means I can restore it for you if you'd like to continue to work on it. I should let you know that the editor who tagged the article for a PROD can then move to nominate it for deletion at Articles for Deletion which is much more final. So, I'd like to hear back from you first before I restore it so you can either post about your COI on your User page or decide to move the page to User or Draft space where there is more leeway allowed to improve articles over time. Let me know when you return to editing on the project. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:24, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * No problem, @Liz thanks for the reply!
 * If you could restore the article, that would be greatly appreciated. At this time, I don't have additional changes, to make. I also don't anticipate having to make many edits going forward, but may need to intermittently. As far as the COI, would you happen to have information on how to go about adding that to my user page? I'm by no means a wiki expert and want to be sure I'm following the necessary rules.
 * Thanks again! HilaryLynn320 (talk) 16:47, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Prod on Arye L. Hillman
Hi Liz -- Not my area and agree the article is a bit of a mess, but I believe the subject clearly meets WP:PROF; the citation profile is excellent, he held a named chair, editorship of a journal, an honorary doctorate, and a couple of the awards might be notable too; there are also two books that might generate reviews as an author. Regards, Espresso Addict (talk) 17:02, 12 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Espresso Addict,
 * If I made an error tagging this page with a PROD, and you can see in my PROD log that I don't tag a lot of pages for Proposed deletion, then simply remove the tag. If you already have, no worries, I don't pursue this deletion further.
 * I could see that this professor had a respectable publishing record but it seems to me that we usually require more than that for academic biographies. In fact, personally, I think we have unrealistically high standards for notability for professors. I'm glad editors/admins like you are watching over the PROD list and removing pages tagged that might be considered borderline. I think some of these cases are judgment calls and if your judgment disagrees with mine, that is fine if we disagree. But thanks for letting me know your opinion. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:56, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Quarry help
Hey I hope you could help me on Quarry. I'm trying to list French sub talkpages 'À_faire' (like fr:Discussion:Dantès/À faire) that still exists while talkpage (like fr:Discussion:Dantès) OR main page (like fr:Dantès) doesn't exist.

From your following quarry, I wrote :

How should I use NOT EXISTS here to only get non-existant main page (like fr:Dantès) and talk (like fr:Discussion:Dantès) ?

From what I have understood, the following code that you use would list French sub talkpages 'À_faire' WHEN fr:Dantès/À faire doesn't exist BUT that's not what I'm looking for. So how to check fr:Dantès / fr:Talk:Dantès instead ?

If that is not clear enough, as this is not my native language, let me know!

Thank's for any help! --LD (talk) 19:43, 12 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, LD,
 * I am not an expert in using Quarry! There is one I make use of that you came across but it was written for me by another editor. Going back through all of the times it's been "forked", it looks like the original query is here and was written for me by Xaosflux. I adjusted their query to allow searches in additional namespaces and to allow for a larger group of results. But Xaosflux might be able to answer your question about the language used in a query.
 * You could also try asking for help at Request a query as the editors who frequent that page seem to know what they are doing. I've also gone for technical help at Village pump (technical). You can also look at the Quarry run list to see which editors are doing Quarry runs and approach those whose names appear frequently (maybe that's how you came across my name). I'm sure that those editors have knowledge about creating a Quarry query or, if they, like me, are the beneficiary of the work of another editor, they could point you in the right direction. I'm sorry to not be tech-savvy enough to help you with your particular problem. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:46, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

Rashi Shapiro
On April 22 You Liz talk deleted a long-standing article about my husband who is well known throughout the Orthodox Jewish community in the US and in Israel. All the facts in the article are verifiable. Please reinstate the article. Thank you Charna shapiro (talk) 14:45, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Charna shapiro,
 * I believe you are referring to Rashi Shapiro. The article was deleted because it was an article about a living person which had no references to verify any of the claims in the article. It was deleted through a criteria we refer to as WP:BLPPROD, proposed deletion about a living person with no citations. If you can provide some references to support the claims made in the article (biography, education, work history) especially if they are references from a neutral, independent source, like a book, magazines, mainstream media website, journal, etc., then the article can be restored and the references added.
 * Alternatively, you can go to WP:REFUND and ask for it to be restored there but they will probably ask for the same thing, evidence that this individual exists and that he has done what the article claims he has done. As you can imagine, when the subject of a Wikipedia article is a living person, we have to be very careful how they are written about and need some verification on the claims in the content. This is most often insisted upon when the claims are negative but it's true no matter what the individual is notable for. I hope this information helps you understand our policies a bit better.
 * Should you have more questions I haven't answered, you can find more help at WP:REFUND or the Teahouse. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:33, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello Liz,
 * Can you please help.  I have added the references to document the article but need your help to publish. 2603:7000:E01:8000:B5CA:2BB9:D8B0:FF29 (talk) 23:54, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello Liz,

I have corrected the article by adding the appropriate references. How do I resubmit the corrected article?

Thanks Rashi Shapiro Charna shapiro (talk) 11:27, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Reactivate revived WP class categories
Hi Liz, is it possible you can undo deletion on the Merseyside wikiproject class categories, such as Category:Start-Class Merseyside articles and others? It was only August they seem to have been deleted but I think there is a new effort to revive the WP. They were only deleted under G6 so should not be controversial. Thanks. Bungle (talk • contribs) 21:14, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Bungle,
 * So nice to see an inactive WikiProject come back to life! I restored WikiProject Merseyside/Assessment and then restored all of the categories listed on that page so I think I got them all. Let me know if there are any ones I missed. Good luck! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:25, 13 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for this. Many of my edits are to Merseyside related articles (which is no surprise) and there is definitely a big enough scope for the WP. Appreciate it. Bungle (talk • contribs) 21:27, 13 May 2022 (UTC)

Deletion of Prince of Wales–St. Sebastian's Cricket Encounter
Hello Liz, you have recently deleted the page Prince of Wales–St. Sebastian's Cricket Encounter saying "Non-notable inter-school cricket match. Lacking in historical significance to establish notability". I know you deleted it because it was proposed for deletion and you have nothing to do with it. I'm not not here to argue with you, please try to understand. Actually this cricket league is happening since 1933 and it's happening between two leading schools in Sri Lanka. The deleted page was including past results and lot of information about that cricket league. As Sri Lankans we call them Big Matches (March Madness). These cricket matches are happening between lot of Sri Lankan schools and this league is one of them. It's like a part of Sri Lankan culture. So we know how notable they are in Sri Lanka. The person who proposed to delete this page is actually from United Kingdom and they might probably don't know about that. (I saw s/he's from UK when I visited their user page) And I've seen s/he has proposed some of other big match cricket pages for deletion, For example Ananda-Nalanda. And that cricket league is happening since 1924. So that user probably don't have an idea about these cricket leagues. So can you please consider about restoring the page Prince of Wales–St. Sebastian's Cricket Encounter.

Thank you in advance. Be safe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 43.250.241.18 (talk) 20:17, 14 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, 43.250.241.18,
 * You don't have to present me with a big argument. Proposed deletions are restored if they are contested which this one is. Of course, it can still be nominated for deletion at WP:AFD but I can restore it no problem. You can also go to WP:REFUND if you have questions about article restoration. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 03:46, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Request to restore Davenport Family (band) to my userspace
Hi, could you restore Davenport Family (band) to my userspace? Want to take a look at it, thanks. Herostratus (talk) 03:32, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Herostratus,
 * ✅ I moved it to User:Herostratus/Davenport Family (band). Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 03:54, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks! Herostratus (talk) 04:04, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Removal of G5 tag
Hello, I just noticed that you removed G5 tags from a page that was highly likely to have been created by a sockpuppet. However, the criterion does not say that this tag can only apply to pages which have been created by blocked socks. The sentence "To qualify, the edit or page must have been made while the user was actually banned or blocked" reads to me that the "user" is the person who operates a blocked account and a sock, not specifically the account that created the G5 eligible page. One of the reasons as to why I tagged the page for deletion is to bring attention to the open sockpuppet investigation for possibly interested admins. I am aware of "what if the account was not actually a sockpuppet", however if the connection between two accounts is so obvious, then there's a very small chance that's not the case. In addition, admins have previously deleted pages which I've tagged for G5 deletion before the sock was blocked, but I know admins think differently. EDM fan 2 (talk) 05:19, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, EDM fan 2,
 * I don't take the deletion of a page lightly. For me, and for most admins, we need to see that a) the page creator is blocked for being a confirmed sockpuppet (not blocked for any other reasons), b) that there is a clear sockmaster identified, c) that the page creator account was created after the sockmaster account was blocked so there is clear block evasion. Do not take this personally, but I won't take an editor's suspicions about a possible sockpuppet or their feelings that the connection is "so obvious" as evidence that the page creator is a confirmed sockpuppet. That's my approach to CSD G5s, you're right, a different admin might react to the tagging differently but I have seen enough CSD G5-tagged pages untagged that I know other admins do agree with my stance.
 * I just do not see a rush to delete pages. If the connection between the page creator and the sockmaster is so obvious, then a case at SPI is appropriate. As soon as a Checkuser or SPI clerk confirms that the page creator is guilty of block evasion, I'm happy to delete their page creations, I do this every day. This is probably not the answer you wanted to hear but I have also seen pages tagged CSD G5 untagged or even restored when a page creator has been cleared of sockpuppetry and I don't want to jump the gun before the confirmation has been done. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:28, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the response. I was mostly looking to understand your reasonings, I did not want this to come off as attempting to oppose the removal of the tag or trying to get you to restore it. EDM fan 2 (talk) 05:33, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, EDM fan 2,
 * Explanations, I'm happy to provide. I just wanted to add that 3 or 4 years ago, we had admins patrolling CSD categories who would basically delete any page that was tagged, often without evaluating it themselves. They aren't admins any more. So the current group of admins who look over CSD categories are much more careful about examining to see whether or not the tagging is consistent with CSD guidelines. No one wants to be taken to Arbitration about being careless about deleting pages so we probably err on the cautious side these days. And, personally, I think that is preferable than being hasty. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:50, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Restore DJ Kelblizz (Nigerian DJ)
helllo Liz i saw that you recently deleted the above acount i took to create, plsease this is an article of a nigeria disc jockey, i got those reference from independent news and web source but you didnt care to search the enitity before deleting the page, please check the page reference and restore it, thanks Kenpmi (talk) 09:30, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Kenpmi,
 * This article has been deleted twice because the individual lacks notability. I won't restore it to main space because it will just get tagged for speedy deletion so there is no point in that.
 * What I can do, if you accept it, is to restore it to Draft space where you can continue to work on it and improve the article. I suggest submitting it to Articles for Creation when you think it is ready so that it can be reviewed by an experienced Wikipedia editor. However, if I restore this article to Draft space and you just move it to main space without any changes, it will not only be deleted again and it's likely that there will be protection put on the page so that no future articles can exist at this page title. So, do you want to move on and work on other articles or do you want to take the time and make DJ Kelblizz (Nigerian DJ) a better article? Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:18, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clarification sir, I’ll suggest you move the article to draft as DJ Kelblizz and not DJ Kelblizz (Nigerian DJ) when I checked the article DJ Kelblizz is protected only for admin access so I suggest you move it to draft with the subject name as DJ Kelblizz so when more reference are gotten it can be published. Kenpmi (talk) 03:25, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Sir I’d also want to ask, a biography can’t be uploaded on a news source but it can be uploaded on an independent biography blog so that’s all I see on google and some news article, which of this source is a better reference for the artist biography because so of the news source of DJ Kelblizz carries so facts and personal information about the entity, so which is of better reliable reference. Kenpmi (talk) 03:28, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Restore article
Hello Liz, hope you're having a great weekend.

I'd like to have Rue le Caire restored, just so I can redirect the page to the director's article. Thanks in advance! Mooonswimmer 13:57, 15 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Mooonswimmer,
 * ✅ I think turning the page into a redirect is a good idea, I'm familiar with the editor who PROD'd the article and they are likely to send it to AFD next. They are pretty on top of following through on articles they've tagged for deletion. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:11, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

Shooting suspect
The same name was being abused for yesterday's shooting in Buffalo. I think we'll have to set up an edit filter, and in the meantime, any occurrence of that name should be a signal to block on sight.  Acroterion   (talk)   00:44, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Acroterion,
 * I followed some of the "sources" that were being claimed by the registered account and the IP to a Medium account whose entire goal is to post slanderous information about some teenager named "Frank Mortenson", really preposterous stuff about ties to Pakistan, embezzlement, CIA investigations, white supremacy, KKK and he just seems to be a 17 year old kid who acquired some trollish enemies online. I reported the account to Medium as every story is fake news. I'm going to do a search on his name here and make sure it hasn't been surreptitiously added to any articles, an edit filter would also be a great idea. This kid doesn't need his name linked to every act of violence that makes the news. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 00:55, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Suffusion of Yellow has already picked it up in filter 58, per his note at ANI. There's an LTA that's been doing this too.  Acroterion   (talk)   00:59, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * That is fast action, thank you to both of you. I didn't find any use of that name in any articles so it's either been removed or this troll is only going for high profile articles that get a lot of attention. There was another person they were doing this to on the Medium account but I haven't seen them using his name on Wikipedia. I'll keep an eye out for it though. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:08, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Liz, maybe it's best to revdel my edit (and all subsequest revisions)? It probably wasn't best to post that link, but I thought at the time I was dealing with a good-faith editor who had fallen for a hoax. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:16, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅, okay, Suffusion of Yellow, I think I got them all. It might help if you went to that Medium account, log in and report the account. I also reported the individual entries as harassment. Thanks for working on that edit filter. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 03:31, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Seems medium.com wants an email address to create an account, and I don't feel like creating (yet another) throwaway email right now. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 16:52, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

What qualifies as "enough involvement" for a show to be included in a category?
Hello, can you kindly please explain to me when to put a show in the categories I made for Kumu (social network)? I have just seen your revert of my edit on Game Ka Na Ba? (I am NOT looking for an editing fight over a simple revert, that's too ridiculous even for the most drama queen out there) and I would to ask when it is appropriate to add a show to the category I made (Category:Kumu (social network) original programming). Does the show in question have a (A) direct interaction with the Kumu audience (e.g: A unpopular housemate on PBB is kicked out of Big Brother's house after a vote to kick a housemate out in Kumu), (B) the show must be broadcast from the beginning on Kumu (social network), (C) something in between or (D) none of these guidelines? I would to know so I can properly add articles to Kumu categories. Thank you. <b style="background:#0d1125;color: lightblue;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">ShiriEdits</b>Talk 03:53, 16 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, ShiriEdits,
 * If you are looking for a formula, then I can't answer your question. I just looked for content regarding this social network in the article and it was marginal. The thing about categories is that they have to be substantiated by content in the article. You don't provide references or citations for a category but it has to be clear in the article why the category is appropriate and it just didn't seem supported by the content where Kumu was just mentioned once or twice as part of a call-in segment. It wasn't a core element to the show's production. If I were to give advice, I'd add more information on how this social network is involved in the show because right now, it doesn't seem like a key element, the show has been airing for years and this is just a new addition, who knows if it will even go beyond this initial season?
 * I have to say, in general, I'm skeptical about an online social network being a key part of any television series. It just seems like a gimmick to attract viewer's participation, the show could go on without it just as easily. It's like a TV series having a Facebook page, it's just advertising, it has no effect on the content of the programming.
 * But you could always add content that demonstrates that I'm incorrect. Or you could decide that Kumu isn't integral to the program. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 04:06, 16 May 2022 (UTC)

CSD removal?
A lot of the pages that I tagged were valid candidates for deletion. Draft:Elfnism even states that it was a repost. 72.10.126.194 (talk) 18:10, 18 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Not to mention pages which I didn't even tag for deletion, such as Draft:Rebecca Salazar. 72.10.126.194 (talk) 18:11, 18 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, 72.10.126.194,
 * First, you are an IP account so there is little past history of yours I can use to judge whether or not you have good intentions. And not even editors who have registered accounts and have been active on Wikipedia for decades tag dozens of pages for speedy deletion in a matter of minutes. It was too much too quickly which was suspicious. What was your method for finding these pages so quickly? Obviously some of the taggings were correct because some pages were deleted but if was a sudden burst of activity from an unknown account, it raised red flags. My best guess is that you are a regular editor who, for some reason, logged out of your account to tag pages for speedy deletion. Please do not do this.
 * As for your legitimate edits, I'll go through your contributions now and revert the ones that shouldn't have been reverted. My apologies for those that were caught up in the mass revert that I did. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:27, 18 May 2022 (UTC)
 * My method was just searching "how" "why" "gay" "shit" "subscribe" "fortnite" "homophobe" and "hitler" 72.10.126.194 (talk) 18:30, 18 May 2022 (UTC)

Izaak Opatz
Hi Liz-

You recently deleted a draft page for Izaak Opatz. I had been communicating with another moderator (who initially deleted the article), and he restored it as a draft for me to make a few corrections on. Do you mind reversing the deletion so I can make the appropriate changes? Thank you so much! Semonative (talk) 22:25, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Semonative
 * Hello, Semonative,
 * It's a simple thing but could you supply a link to the page you want restored so I know what namespace it was in? If it was restored as an expired draft, the restorer has to make an edit to the after restoration or it can be deleted again. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:29, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * It was never restored as a draft. They're referring to Izaak Opatz, . PRAXIDICAE💕  22:30, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I never deleted Izaak Opatz, that was Primefac you must speak to. But that page was deleted for a number of reasons including copyright violations so I doubt he will restore it for you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:32, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * We spoke on it here - they attempted to reverse the deletion, but it was deleted directly after that. I may be confused - do you mind reviewing the thread? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Primefac#Izaak_Opatz Semonative (talk) 23:01, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Semonative
 * That's great, it looks like you and Primefac have come to a resolution. I'm not sure what my role is here since Primefac has indicated that they will restore what parts of the article that they can. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 23:11, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Rosa Brítez
Hello Liz. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Rosa Brítez, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Not previously been deleted via a deletion discussion. Thank you. Shirt58 (talk) 09:16, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * @Shirt58: Um, Articles_for_deletion/Rosa_Brítez. Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 11:21, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't even think Liz was the tagger, but just corrected the tag that another editor had done. Besides, as already noted, it was previously deleted at AfD (even if there was minimal participation), so I don't think the csd request should have been removed. I can't see if it is identical or not, but if Liz endorsed the csd then I assume it must be. Bungle (talk • contribs) 16:11, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi all. Apologies for the late reply. I'm annoyed with myself about this - I had written up a carefully considered edit summary explaining why I thought the article had avoided WP:G4 deletion... and then proceeded to click the wrong button, resulting in the obviously incorrect Speedy deletion declined. Criterion G4 does not apply: Not previously been deleted via a deletion discussion. I can't go back in time and make my mistake disappear, but this is what the edit summary should have looked like: In my opinion, this article is substantially different from the article deleted in 2014 and addresses the issued raised there. The references in the 2018 version of the article are from reliable Paraguayan media sources, that to my mind either reconsider her significance after her death or perhaps re-confirm her significance while still alive. Peter in Australia aka --Shirt58 (talk) 09:47, 22 May 2022 (UTC) --Shirt58 (talk) 09:47, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, that makes a lot more sense. :) Writ Keeper &#9863;&#9812; 13:49, 22 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the notice. If I don't have questions about a speedy deletion, if it is obvious and uncontroversial, then I just delete the page myself. But I did have questions about this one so I corrected the tag and tagged it to pass it along for another admin to judge the merits of the claim. In this case, I wanted a second opinion so thanks for getting back to me. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 00:03, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Reporting an editor for vandalism
I would like to report an editor who has been involved in vandalism. This editor is taking things up to their own liking and is not being objective. The recent conversation is available on my page. They are either inexperienced with the edited topic or otherwise are involved in targeted omissions. They are claiming that the information is unsourced despite being publicly available specifically on Wikipedia. The only reason I could think of for such an act is altering things to their own liking and wishful status. AyCem Fan (talk) 04:35, 23 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, AyCem Fan,
 * You have been editing Wikipedia for one day. The editor you are arguing with has been editing Wikipedia for almost 7 years and has made 290,801 edits over that time. I think they are more familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines than you are. I'd listen to their advice.
 * If you want a second opinion, besides mine, I encourage you to take your questions to the Teahouse which is a forum where newer editors can ask questions of more experienced editors. It's a friendly place but I would stop making accusations that you have no evidence for because that could backfire on you. Saying someone is committing vandalism, without providing edits that demonstrate this is occurring is considered a personal attack that can lead to a loss of editing privileges. Good luck finding your way around the project. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 04:45, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi Liz, thanks for your prompt feedback. I totally understand your point of view and I totally know what hot plate I’m in right now. I do appreciate the experience you both have, but if you could please look at the case in depth rather than at face value. This is targeted as the editor amended only Aytaç’s page but not Cemre’s. If you check the history of their edits, you’d know this is out of place. I will do my best to add all required validations and citations required so as to eliminate any doubts or controversies. If that person still omits the info, then please know they are intentionally doing so. Take care and thanks again. AyCem Fan (talk) 05:12, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, AyCem Fan,
 * I'll be blunt here because you seem overly focused on this one article. If you leave angry edit summaries calling other editors "haters" and posting on their talk page, accusing them of vandalism, you will be blocked. You need to move on from arguing about this article or move to discussing your disagreement on the article talk page. You have to change your approach immediately or you find yourself unable to edit at all. This is a collaborative writing project which means you need to get along with others even if you disagree with them.
 * In your first day, you don't demonstrate the demeanor of an editor who is going to be here very long. If you get angry with every editor who challenges your edit or reverts what you write, then Wikipedia is not the place for you. I've been here for a long time and if you look at my talk page, you'll see that people still challenge me or get upset with things I've done. It's the nature of working with other people that there will be conflict. You don't need to like every editor here but you have to stop with the personal attacks or some admin will block you instead of taking the time to explain all of this to you. Maybe take a break from working on the article where you have a dispute and focus on something else for a few days or weeks. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:33, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol newsletter May 2022
Hello ,

At the time of the last newsletter (No.26, September 2021), the backlog was 'only' just over 6,000 articles. In the past six months, the backlog has reached nearly 16,000, a staggering level not seen in several years. A very small number of users had been doing the vast majority of the reviews. Due to "burn-out", we have recently lost most of this effort. Furthermore, several reviewers have been stripped of the user right for abuse of privilege and the articles they patrolled were put back in the queue.

Several discussions on the state of the process have taken place on the talk page, but there has been no action to make any changes. The project also lacks coordination since the "position" is vacant.

In the last 30 days, only 100 reviewers have made more than 8 patrols and only 50 have averaged one review a day. There are currently Special:ListUsers/patroller New Page Reviewers, but about a third have not had any activity in the past month. All administrators have this permission, but only about a dozen significantly contribute to NPP.

This means we have an active pool of about 450 to address the backlog. We cannot rely on a few to do most of the work as that inevitably leads to burnout. A fairly experienced reviewer can usually do a review in a few minutes. If every active reviewer would patrol just one article per day, the backlog would very quickly disappear.

If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, do suggest they help the effort by placing on their talk page.

If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.

To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here. Sent 05:18, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

I don't want to be blocked
It may be useful visiting the page Blocking policy and going to section When blocking may not be used. Sasquash-Bigfood (talk) 20:21, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Sasquash-Bigfood,
 * The only way you can edit here again is if you stop creating sockpuppets for at least 6 months and then make an unblock request from your original account. As long as you keep doing what you are doing, your edits will be reverted and your page creations will be deleted. I'm sure that is frustrating for you but this is how Wikipedia deals with sockpuppetry to discourage your activities. It would also help if you worked on other Wikimedia projects like Simple English and made productive contributions there, then your unblock request might have a chance of being accepted. Aren't you tired of going through this same routine every few months? Please take some advice, stop creating sockpuppets and establish a good track record on other Wikimedia projects. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 20:29, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

User creating draft article on a theory he / she made
Hello, I recently found this weird draft article created just recently through my check of the recent changes page. This " article" is basically the user trying to be MatPat and trying to pull it off in Wikipedia. The theory is attempting to make the connection that Rec Room (video game), a game made for roleplaying purposes is a clone of LittleBigPlanet. This, obviously, ludicrous theory/article (let alone a draft on Wikipedia attempting to become an article) seems to be made by a new user. (oh boy, I'm already getting triggered by the number of grammatical mistakes here) I'm pretty sure this is in violation of MADEUP, but I want to ask how to properly (and kindly) interact with the user on why this article is not fit for Wikipedia. I don't want to make this into a long dispute, so I want to know how to properly interact with the user in regards to their article. Thank you. --<b style="background:#0d1125;color: lightblue;padding:1q;border-radius:5q;">ShiriEdits</b>Talk 04:25, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, ShiriEdits,
 * Well, I read the draft article and didn't understand any of the content. I left a talk page welcome message with some guidelines and an invitation to the Teahouse. If you want to take the time to talk with this editor, which I think is great, I'd focus on the lack of any sources and the fact that they state the paragraph is "his theory" which means it's original research which is not permitted. It sounds like you are more concerned about the content of the draft but that could lead to a more involved debate so I'd stick to what Wikipedia expects from articles which is the same no matter what subject you are writing about. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 04:38, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Undelete request
Hello Liz,

I would like to request an undelete of your recent clean up of my draft page, I have been in hospital with health issues in the past 6 months and so my editing of the page had paused. I am now recovering and wish to resume my edits.

This is the page to in question from your notification 2 days ago:

request its undeletion

Many thanks Quakefan (talk) 09:28, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Antu Gulandaz
Hi Liz. I saw that you declined the CSD for this draft. What should be done with this draft? I think it is a test page. Should I tag it accordingly? Because, there is nothing in this draft. Just a image and some information on what to include in each section. What could this actually be? <b style="background:linear-gradient(45deg,#f05,#b49);border:2px solid #000;padding:2px;color:#ef4;">Itcouldbepossible</b>Talk 06:40, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Hispanas Organized for Political Equality (May 25)
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by HenryTemplo was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Hispanas Organized for Political Equality and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Hispanas Organized for Political Equality, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "Db-g7" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you do not make any further changes to your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Hispanas_Organized_for_Political_Equality Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:HenryTemplo&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Hispanas_Organized_for_Political_Equality reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

HenryTemplo (talk) 14:12, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

 * Hello, Taxin609,
 * This barnstar actually means quite a lot to me. Thank you. I wish more editors, especially those who patrol new pages, would write out personal messages or even leave a Teahouse invitation instead of just leaving warning templates that a new editor will not understand. Some do try to help, but it's not as common as I'd like. I could do more than I do but if I think a new editor is just a little confused about the purpose of Wikipedia or what goes where, I try to point them in a helpful direction. I will give thanks to admin JBW who I noticed long ago spent more time explaining Wikipedia than scolding editors about what they weren't doing correctly. I try to follow his example when I can. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:30, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Hi
Hello sir can I know the reason why the page of Pioneer Football League Bangladesh has deleted?
 * If you look at the page, Pioneer Football League (Bangladesh), it lists the reason for deletion. It was the recreation of a page deleted in an AFD discussion, CSD G4. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:55, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Revision deletion request, per Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to handle RevisionDelete requests
I believe edit should be deleted from the revision history. I've already removed the content. BilledMammal (talk) 08:16, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Done by Tamzin, thank you. BilledMammal (talk) 08:24, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Since Liz seems to be offline right now, ✅. For future reference, it's best not to make RevDel requests onwiki (with the exception of copyvio-revdel). Instead, you can email admins in the RevDel category, or you can swing by, where there's almost always someone online. --  Tamzin  [ cetacean needed ] (she/they) 08:25, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for handling this, Tamzin. Yes, I was sleeping. As far as leaving a message on an admin talk page, for me, it depends on how egregious the comment is. If it is standard troll stuff, I can get to it quickly or one of the helpful folks who watch my talk page can. But if it is racist, BLP-violating ranting, yes, it's better to find contact Oversight who I think must work shifts because someone is always watching that email account. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 16:32, 28 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I wasn't aware of #wikipedia-en-revdel (I don't use IRC much) but it let me in as a guest without check my admin status so I wonder how private it is. I have major issues trying to log into Discord so I don't know if they have an admin channel there. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 16:37, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Category:Films featuring Sylvester the Cat has been nominated for renaming
Category:Films featuring Sylvester the Cat has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. ★Trekker (talk) 10:33, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

DeaconShotFire requests unblock. They write,

Would this be acceptable as far as it goes? Do they need a TBAN as an unblock condition? -- Deep fried okra ( talk ) 13:05, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey, Deepfriedokra,
 * How are you? I hope you are well. I think you must have posted this on the wrong talk page because the only previous contact I had with DeaconShotFire was on their talk page, basically warning them that they shouldn't insult administrators if they wanted to be unblocked. But I never issued them a block as far as I can see in their block log. I don't know their editing history or edit warring history enough to know what kind of topic ban might be issued but from looking at their contributions, they did edit a lot in U.S. and UK politics & history areas. If a topic ban is issued, I wouldn't target the specific pages they want to work on unless that is the area where they have had problems with edit warring. But, again, I'd confer with the admin who issued them an indefinite block.
 * Thank you for all of the work you do at UTRS, you seem to be one of a handful of admins who reviews unblock requests there. I don't quite understand the technical aspects of that site regarding reserving cases and replying to requests. But I'm also such a big believer in WP:ROPE, I don't think I would do a great job there being able to evaluate who's actually turned over a new leaf and ready to be a productive contributor and who is just saying what they think we want to hear. Well, we all have our strengths and areas where we could use more work! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 15:52, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Just getting a feel for the subject. On the insult problem, those come in flavors! Or levels. I mean "dumbass" is pretty mild compared to "sumbitch", and the one DSF used was in its own league. What! ever! I've been called worse in real life, so the common insults just roll off. DSF's problems are like an onion layerwise. Is there a collegial, constructive editor under all that?  I'm retired nurse, so with problems of this breadth, I try do find the root causes. So, I will keep "asking the next question." They'll tire before I do, 'cause my inner Aspie or OCD freak or whatever will just keeep going till there's nothing left. Ever try to get a Pit Bull to drop it!
 * Hpw do you like these "reply" buttons. Keeps moving what I type to the wrong end of the line. -- Deep fried okra  ( talk ) 16:07, 29 May 2022 (UTC)


 * Liz, you aren't alone. I never managed to figure out the mechanics of UTRS either. Every month or so I visit UTRS to try my hand at it again and I end up leaving no more enlightened than when I started.
 * On the other hand, I just looked at it today and saw that the user interface is now vastly improved. ~Anachronist (talk) 16:37, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. Try it; you'll like it. -- Deep fried okra  ( talk ) 17:32, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Mud Mouth
Hi Liz, I saw you restored this article and said it should be considered for an article. The problem is, it already has been, and there don't seem to be any reliable sources at all in existence for it. As far as I can tell, it hasn't been reviewed in a single publication, not even specialist hip hop websites. The two sources in the article tell you almost nothing – one is a single paragraph in a WP:PRIMARY interview with the artist explaining why he put the album out, the other is one line (which is a cut-and-paste copyvio) about how it would maybe soundtrack a documentary. Nothing about the background to the album, or what the songs are about. It's difficult to see how this record could ever meet the requirements of WP:NALBUM, to be honest. Richard3120 (talk) 17:08, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Richard3120,
 * I was looking at the artist's profile because of a broken redirect, if I recall correctly, and was surprised to see their latest album was a redirect when it seemed like their career was in full swing. So, I reverted the edit creating the redirect. But now, hopefully today, I'll see if there have been any new sources since it was last edited in February and if I can't find anything, I'll revert myself. Thanks for bringing my attention to this. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:50, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, Richard3120, I found reviews but they look like they are from hip hop magazines/blogs so I guess they would be unacceptable. Is there a list of approved sources for contemporary music that goes beyond Rolling Stone, Spin and major newspapers? Most of the coverage I'm finding for contemporary music is from online magazines. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 20:08, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
 * There's a list of acceptable sources at WP:RSMUSIC, although it's not exhaustive. I think the only thing I've found approaching a review is this article at HipHopDX, although it's more of an announcement of the album's release. In general, HipHopDX and HotNewHipHop are recognised as the best of the online websites specialising in hip hop music: RapReviews is another that's commonly used, although I don't think we've ever had a discussion on its reliability over at WP:ALBUMS. I take your point about the artist's profile: Yelawolf was certainly one of the highest profile of Eminem's proteges, but since he left Shady Records a few years ago his stock has fallen rapidly. Richard3120 (talk) 18:27, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 May 2022
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:46, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

Page creating help
Good morning Dear Madam I am new to Wikipedia & need help in creating & polishing up a Wikipedia page which will be submitted for a review, I have links & news articles etc. Would you be able to help me out to create a page for a Netflix Actor

Thank you 2A00:23C7:5081:9801:5D8E:5B93:E8D1:1372 (talk) 10:10, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, 2A00:23C7:5081:9801:5D8E:5B93:E8D1:1372,
 * I recommend going to the Teahouse or Articles for Creation for help. I have many tasks I do on Wikipedia and can't spend time coaching you on writing articles. But there are editors who will offer advice and support to you at those two sites so please give them a try. Good luck. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:55, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

"2021 Oting Nagaland Massacre" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect 2021 Oting Nagaland Massacre and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 May 31 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Dunutubble (talk) (Contributions) 17:45, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

POTD categories
We're creating a terrible feedback loop here: Categories are getting removed for not existing yet, e.g., and then getting deleted for not having something in them. This is a Wikipedia process that eventually should have an entry for every single day of 2023. It's important categories exist for them. I'm going to try to sort out this mess. Please hold on. Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 01:21, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Adam Cuerden,
 * First, let me apologize for overwhelming your talk page with notices. I should have left a personal note discussing this instead of individual deletion notices.
 * Second, empty categories sit for a week, they are not deleted immediately unless there are other issues like they were created by a sockpuppet or there is BLP-violating content on it. So, there is always some time to sort things out with empty categories. It often happens that categories are only temporarily empty and in those cases, we just remove the tag before the 7 days are up.
 * Finally, there is something you can do with categories like these, where you want to create categories that will be periodically empty. It's not mentioned much because it should not be misused in order to retain empty categories that should not be kept. But for maintenance categories like these, put tag on the page and there will be a notice not to delete the category even if it is empty and, more importantly for folks like me, these categories will stop showing up on the nightly Database reports/Empty categories list which is how we are informed about empty categories.
 * Please do not remove CSD tags from any pages you have created, that shouldn't be done but there are other ways we can address this. If you just remove the tag without placing an empty category tag on the page, it'll just show up on tomorrow's list of "Empty categories" and we'll go through all this again which I'm sure you don't want. I hope this helps. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:31, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, they should all be unempty now. I've just gone through and sorted everything by creating the month archives for each category. Sorry about that. It was kind of an awkward situation, and I just started trying to maintain POTD. I have a suspicion there should be an easy way to make these pages, but I instead did search and replaces on the extant day listings while chanting "30 days hath September..." Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 01:39, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * And I've added to the header that gets autoadded to the category pages, and set them up to... well, frankly, to the point of the most distant POTD that was already set up, so that categories won't mistakenly get deleted by accident. At least not for a while.  Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 01:55, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Bassano Vaccarini
I know some Wiki politics- destruction, vandalizing.Xx236 (talk) 06:30, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Xx236,
 * I'm not sure what your comment is all about. If you would like Draft:Bassano Vaccarini restored, you can ask me or go to WP:REFUND. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 06:34, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Books & Bytes – Issue 50
<div style = "color: #936c29; font-size: 4em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif"> The Wikipedia Library <span style="font-size: 2em; font-family: Copperplate, 'Copperplate Gothic Light', serif">Books & Bytes

Issue 50, March – April 2022 <div style = "margin-top: 1.5em; border: 3px solid #ae8c55; border-radius: .5em; padding: 1em 1.5em; font-size: 1.2em">
 * New library partner - SPIE
 * 1Lib1Ref May 2022 underway

Read the full newsletter Sent by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --12:52, 1 June 2022 (UTC) (UTC)

Deletion of Romanian Brazilians article
Hello! I would like to know why the Romanian Brazilians article got deleted, it had nothing to do with the previously deleted article and my article used sources presented in other articles such as the Romania-Brazil relations. the page citing the recreation of a page that was deleted per a deletion discussion speedy criterion when the content was different enough for it to not apply. Also take a look at the pages about European diaspora in Brazil, basically only the Romanian one is missing even though having a substantial diaspora of more than 40k people. Thank you for your time if you ever see this :)


 * Hello,
 * Okay, I'll look into this. Please sign all of your talk page posts with 4 tildes ( "~" ) so I'll know who is talking to me. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:41, 1 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply, so can i remake the same page if it's ok?
 * Vladdy Daddy Silly (talk) 23:34, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Vladdy Daddy Sillly
 * Vladdy Daddy Silly (talk) 23:34, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Vladdy Daddy Sillly


 * I think a good solution would be restoring the page under draft or userspace so that this editor is able to further work on it if necessary. Super   Ψ   Dro  13:05, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Vladdy Daddy Silly,
 * I thought the two articles were similar and the new version didn't overcome the objections in the AFD that caused the article to be deleted. But I'm willing to restore the page to Draft space. Read over the AFD and when you think the article is in better shape, submit it to Articles for Creation for review. If you move it directly back into main space, it will just be tagged for speedy deletion CSD G4 again but if it meets AFC approval, it is less likely to be deleted. Does that sound okay to you? Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 03:13, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, sure. Give me the link of the Draft page if you have it because i can't find it, thanks a lot. Vladdy Daddy Silly (talk) 16:23, 4 June 2022 (UTC)Vladdy Daddy Silly
 * sorry i forgot to mail notify you about the draft page, i'm ok with it of course, i'll edit it more and add sources that i found. Vladdy Daddy Silly (talk) 15:44, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * sorry i forgot to mail notify you about the draft page, i'm ok with it of course, i'll edit it more and add sources that i found. Vladdy Daddy Silly (talk) 15:44, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Sock
Hi Liz. You blocked two users who created Draft:Julian Lawrence Hall ( and ) for socking. Now there is a 3rd, - possibly another sock? --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 19:29, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Drm310,
 * Thanks for the notification. I'm going to be on and off Wikipedia for the next couple of hours but I'll look into this. Socks are nothing if not persistent. But some, it seems, eventually get tired of all of the games and move on. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:43, 1 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Another one has cropped up at User:Olviha/sandbox. I've opened a case at Sockpuppet investigations/Julian Lawrence Hall requesting CU. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 16:14, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – June 2022
News and updates for administrators from the past month (May 2022).

Administrator changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-add.svg Tamzin
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Barek • Darkwind • Geometry guy • ProcseeBot • RoyBoy • Sean Whitton • Valereee • Visorstuff • WAvegetarian
 * Pictogram voting rename.png →



CheckUser changes
 * Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg Ivanvector

Guideline and policy news
 * Several areas of improvement collated from community member votes have been identified in the Universal Code of Conduct Enforcement guidelines. The areas of improvement have been sent back for review and you are invited to provide input on these areas.

Technical news
 * Administrators using the mobile web interface can now access Special:Block directly from user pages.
 * The IP Info feature has been deployed to all wikis as a Beta Feature. Any autoconfirmed user may enable the feature using the "IP info" checkbox under . Autoconfirmed users will be able to access basic information about an IP address that includes the country and connection method. Those with advanced privileges (admin, bureaucrat, checkuser) will have access to extra information that includes the Internet Service Provider and more specific location.

Arbitration
 * Remedy 2 of the Rachel Marsden case has been rescinded following a motion. The remedy previously authorised administrators to delete or reduce to a stub, together with their talk pages, articles related to Rachel Marsden when they violate Wikipedia's biographies of living persons policy.
 * An arbitration case regarding WikiProject Tropical Cyclones has been closed.

Discuss this newsletter

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Archive Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:55, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

I'm Sorry
Hello Liz,

I am very sorry for mindlessly tagging drafts for speedy deletion and MFD. I'll try not do it again and actually look in the page history to see if it will be eligible for G13. I have learned my lesson and please forgive me. I will also not submit anymore speedy deletions or MFDs on drafts unless it is really problematic. THE Pizzaplayer&#33; TALK TO MEE&#33;&#33; contribs 18:46, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Pizzaplayer219,
 * I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. It was at the end of a long day and I think I was exasperated. Once you know about the CSD G13 status, you don't need to be told twice. If you look at User:SDZeroBot/G13 soon, you'll see that we have hundreds of drafts expiring every day that are evaluated so most times, an MFD isn't warranted unless there are severe problems with the content that can't be dealt with by speedy deletion. Any way, thank you for your contributions to the project! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 00:43, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Refund request 2
Draft:Boeing F-15EX Eagle II. It's being discussed at Talk:McDonnell_Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle, and having it visible would be useful to the discussion. Thanks. BilCat (talk) 21:18, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, BilCat,
 * ✅ Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:20, 2 June 2022 (UTC)


 * That was fast! Thanks. Btw, what does "ME" in the edit summary, "ME after draft restoration", mean? BilCat (talk) 21:22, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, BilCat,
 * I guess that is an abbreviation that only I use but it stands for "minor edit". After a draft has been restored, unless you make an edit to the page, it becomes immediately eligible for CSD G13 deletion again. The page restoration doesn't affect the page history which will show that the last non-bot edit to the page was over 6 months ago. So, to prevent the page from getting tagged for speedy deletion again, I, and good folks at WP:REFUND, typically make a minor edit to the page like adding a space or adding a line between AFC comments. It also resets the 6 month clock for drafts. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:27, 2 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Ah, OK. We should have a decision on whether or not to move it to mainspace in a few weeks. I may work on it in the meantime. It's not a notability question but an editorial one of whether or not the F-15EX content is better covered in its own article, or should remain at McDonnell Douglas F-15E Strike Eagle. As a Page Mover, I can move it to mainspace myself if we decide to do that. Thanks again. BilCat (talk) 21:39, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Gehad Hamdy
Hi Liz. I think the only reason the IP isn't blocked is because the CU can't actually confirm. Any other suggestions? It's clearly someone from Sockpuppet_investigations/Salem_Imam/Archive logged out given the verbatim creation. Thoughts on SALTing? I asked the same at the SPI, but no issue if it's also used as sock catcher. Star  Mississippi  02:41, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey, Star Mississippi,
 * I have this "thing" about CSD G5s because, in my experience, many editors tag pages for speedy deletion based on suspicions before there are any conclusions at an SPI or before an SPI is even filed. So, I have this, "I have to see that the page creator is a confirmed sockpuppet, I have to know who the sockmaster is, the page creator has to have been blocked for sockpuppetry not for another reason and there can't be any substantial contributions from other editors" G5 rationale which, I admit, some folks have found to be rigid. I've been challenged on this before but I just ask them to wait until the SPI confirms sockpuppetry (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't). I had gotten in hot water years ago about G5s that were deleted that shouldn't have been deleted but never for removing a CSD tag that I thought was placed prematurely. And it also can be difficult because sometimes, the checkusers will not identify a sockmaster, they just know that the account is a multiple account. I've asked them to try and be more specific about this but I've been brushed off before so it must have something to do with privacy or their certainty about the results.
 * You could try CSD G4, due to Articles for deletion/Gehad Hamdy, but some admins believe G4 doesn't apply to Draft space, others believe it does while other admins decide this on a case-by-case basis. I (and others) have brought up this contradiction at WT:CSD without any firm consensus arising. The references, regarding the organization Speak Up look decent, less so for Gehad Hamdy but she did win this Women SME Leaders Awards 2022 which looks notable that probably happened after the AFD discussion. I guess I have mixed feelings about this draft because even though sockpuppets were involved, it looks like exactly the kind of article Wikipedia should have, about a recognized and effective community activist in a developing country. It's unfortunate that sockpuppetry is involved. But I want to add that this "feeling" didn't affect my decision to untag this draft, it was my understanding of how CSD G5 is to be interpreted.
 * You could always wait until the draft goes stale and goes CSD G13. And I have seen some admins stretch CSD G11 all out of shape to apply to almost any kind of article but I don't think that is a good practice. That can happen with CSD G7 but G7 has more built-in limitations to it than G11 does. My only other suggestion is to retag it and see if another admin comes to a different conclusion than I did. That action is discouraged but I've seen it happen before. These are the only possibilities that occur to me right now. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:47, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It would be helpful if you would leave the G5 CSDs to another admin to review if your requirements are so stringent. There are many socking cases that don't have an SPI and drafts are articles are routinely deleted as CSD G5 without an SPI. As a checkuser there are many reasons why a specific master is not identified, especially when dealing with IPs. If you're not comfortable with deleting on that basis, is there any harm in just letting another admin review the request? Asking someone to retag the CSDs as you've done here, and below at "tagging a test page" (which I also think most admins would have deleted as a valid CSD), is less than ideal as the majority of admins won't CSD a page if another admin has declined it. You do a ton of heavy lifting with speedy deletions (thank you!!!), is there any harm in leaving a few for another admin to review if you know you're out of step with common practice?-- Jezebel's Ponyo bons mots 19:06, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * It's not G4 eligible as it's substantively different, but the same one the sock farm has been copy/pasting so there's no doubt that this is the same editor. @TheSandDoctor has blocked per the SPI so hopefully concerns are resolved? If not, I hope they get bored for six months or realize that this isn't going to result in an article for what I presume is their client. Someone can definitely write an article SpeakUp and discuss Hamdy within it, but that's not what this group is interested in doing, sadly. Thanks! Star   Mississippi  12:54, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Liz hasn't responded to this thread, so I gather they are busy. I've gone ahead and G5'd since it now meets the criteria, as discussed and per my blocking of the IPs. If there is any objection to this, please discuss and ping me. -- The SandDoctor Talk 15:54, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion - Mayor of Frankfurt
Hello, I see that you have declined my page move. Just to clarify, Frankfurt and Frankfurt am Main are the same place. Wikipedia generally uses just "Frankfurt" to refer to "Frankfurt am Main", as seen on the Frankfurt page. The Mayor of Frankfurt-am-Main article refers to the city as "Frankfurt am Main" in the lede but elsewhere in the article it is refered to as "Frankfurt". Thus I don't think that moving the page would make the title not agree with the content. But also this is my first time moving a page so maybe I'm doing it wrong. Medarduss (talk) 07:43, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Medarduss,
 * You could very well be right here, Medarduss. It looks like the page used to be titled List of mayors of Frankfurt until this edit in 2018 when it was changed from a list to an article with its current title. It's just that this is an established article that has existed since 2005 and so page moves and retitling has to be done with a bit more care than if it was a page about a new film or video game. Typically, although this didn't happen in 2018, for a longstanding article, there is a proposal and discussion on the article talk page first. After that is concluded, or if there is little response to a proposal after a week or so, then an editor can take a bold action and either move an article or request a page move. But first, the article is rewritten so that, at least in the lede paragraph, the new title is how the article subject is identified. This doesn't have to involve a lot of editing. But an article shouldn't be titled "Mayor of Frankfurt" if that is not how the mayor is identified in the first sentence of the article and any infobox. If there are several titles that can be used, then they can all be mentioned there but "Mayor of Frankfurt" should be the primary one if that is the new article title.
 * But I suggest you start a talk page discussion first and see if other page watchers agree with you. You might be surprised at how controversial some page moves can be so it's best to get a feeling if there is general agreement before moving an article. Oh, and you really didn't do anything wrong by making the request, I probably should have not just declined the page move but should have also gone to your talk page and explained all this, too. Good luck! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:13, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

A CSD G11
Hi Liz. I had nominated Draft:Abdolrahman Sarraei for G11 deletion, which has already been deleted multiple number of times. Also Abdolrahman Sarraei was deleted multiple number of times, and then recreated again and again. There is also this SPI case regarding the matter. Considering all these, why did you remove my CSD tag? Could you please explain me I had gone wrong somewhere. At least, I can tell you, all the time, I had nominated this for CSD, always it got deleted. It was I who first discovered this article and put a CSD tag on it. Were those deletions wrong? What do you say? <b style="background:#bf4949;border:2px solid #000;padding:2px;color:#fffb8c;">Itcouldbepossible</b> Talk 15:22, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Itcouldbepossible,
 * First, I think you need to consider all of the pages that you tag for speedy deletion where I agree with you and not just focus on the handful where I come to a different conclusion. But you ask a valid question here. Editors and admins can disagree on whether or not a tagging rationale is valid, I work with Proposed deletions and articles get de-PRODed every day when another editor disagrees with a tagging. You look at a day's AFD discussions and probably at least half of the deletion nominations are contested by other editors who believe an article should be kept. Regarding page deletions, good, thoughtful editors can disagree.
 * As for this particular draft, I didn't investigate the page history, I just looked at the current page content and I didn't think it was overly promotional, at least not by my standards for CSD G11. I made my judgment based on the content of the draft and we usually allow more leeway in the Draft world than in the project main space. Now, if I had looked more carefully at the page history and seen how many of the latest edits were done by User:Sarraei Team, then I probably would have seen what you had seen and deleted the page. You are clearly more aware of the history of the article subject than I was at the time I was evaluating the page. But it's interesting that the admin who did delete the page after I untagged it (see Draft:Abdolrahman Sarraei) did so for CSD G5 reasons and he removed the CSD G11 deletion rationale so it wasn't deleted for being advertising but because of sockpuppetry activity.
 * If I made a mistake here it's that I shouldn't have simply reverted your edit, I should have brought up the subject on your talk page. But, unfortunately, sometimes admins get busy, the CSD categories are full of pages that need to be reviewed and taken care of and having discussions like this can take up time that folks would rather spend on other tasks. I do think that you have been doing quite a bit of deletion tagging that I have had questions about but if a situation like this comes up again, I'll come to your talk page instead of simply reverting your edit. Does this help explain things a bit better? Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:34, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * First, I think you need to consider all of the pages that you tag for speedy deletion where I agree with you and not just focus on the handful where I come to a different conclusion. Sorry, but I didn't want to mean that. It is not about disagreeing and agreeing. You have deleted many pages that I had CSDed. I was quite amazed when you removed the CSD tag from that promotional article which has already been deleted multiple number of times, and the editors blocked as sockpuppets. I thought this might be a mistake from Liz's side, so I thought of bringing this up to you.
 * As for this particular draft, I didn't investigate the page history, I just looked at the current page content and I didn't think it was overly promotional, at least not by my standards for CSD G11. Well that must be up to you, but to me it looked like promotional, so I CSDed it. And I got this strong, when I saw other 2 administrators had agreed with me. So the third time, I, you can say, alomost blindly tagged the page for CSD. But I check my CSD log daily to see which articles are still kept even after I CSDed them. Like that I improve my knowledge on deletion situations. I see when administrator agree with me and when they don't. That day when I saw my CSD log, I found out that the page was still 'blue linked'. I saw the page history and found out that you had removed the tag.
 * Now, if I had looked more carefully at the page history and seen how many of the latest edits were done by, then I probably would have seen what you had seen and deleted the page. Yes, but a draft promotional to that extent should be deleted (though you didn't think it was promotional). There are many instances by which we know that the draft or article is actually promotional. The user is creating an article in a 'promotional tone about the KIIFF film festival itself. And then this Abdolrahman, who as far as I remember is associated with this film festival in some way. So overall, as per what we see, it was promotional, according to me.
 * Now, if I had looked more carefully at the page history and seen how many of the latest edits were done by User:Sarraei Team, then I probably would have seen what you had seen and deleted the page. Probably, but administrators like you, who are involved with so many things on this wiki, are way busy to go and inspect the page histories of the articles that turn up in the category. But, if you won't block me, then I would just suggest you something. You can install this script, to find past deletions and AFDs. This is a really helpful script for new page reviewers and also administrators who perform deletions. This Writ Keeper man, oh what a user! This script helps you to find out if the article or draft has been deleted in the past, or if there was any AFD of the article. Would you please use that script from now on to see if the article or draft has been deleted previously? And when you see the page has been deleted previously, then you can have a look at the page history also (to detect anomalies like this one). In this way you won't have to check the page history always. Now please please don't mind this suggestion from a new and unexperienced user like me. I am no one to suggest to users or rather administrators like you, who has been working for the community for so many years, and has so many peoples support. Please take this as a friendly suggestion from a newbie.
 * But it's interesting that the admin who did delete the page after I untagged it (see Draft:Abdolrahman Sarraei) did so for CSD G5 reasons and he removed the CSD G11 deletion rationale so it wasn't deleted for being advertising but because of sockpuppetry activity. Well, I am not sure (you can check it once more, I don't remember it, for I have been tagging tens of articles for CSD everyday, and it is hard to recall what the article or draft looked like, or how many CSD tags were there, unless there are special problems with the article, like obvious vandalism, creation by LTAs, or promotional articles that are being repeatedly created using different article naming schemes), but I myself had tagged the draft first for CSD G11, and then included a G5 too, since it would also be applicable. But the deletion administrator took the latter CSD criteria and deleted it accordingly. It has happened quite a few number of times. I nominate an article for deletion using multiple CSD criteria (obviously those which can be applied), and sometimes, the deletion admin chooses the best out of it. So maybe this is what had happened this time.
 * If I made a mistake here it's that I shouldn't have simply reverted your edit, I should have brought up the subject on your talk page. But, unfortunately, sometimes admins get busy, the CSD categories are full of pages that need to be reviewed and taken care of and having discussions like this can take up time that folks would rather spend on other tasks. I understand that. That is why I thought of bringing this up to you as nicely my English let me to do. Alas, I hate to say this again and again, but being an Indian, and English being my 3rd language (not applicable for every Indian), I am struggling to learn to phrase sentences correctly, so that they don't mean bad to English speaking people like you. And I even ran into a problem once. You can see my talk page archive to know how my problematic English made by good intention look bizarre.
 * I do think that you have been doing quite a bit of deletion tagging that I have had questions about but if a situation like this comes up again, I'll come to your talk page instead of simply reverting your edit. I would be pleased if you do that. But no need to take this as a burden. You are free to decline my CSDs. Just be careful about the past deletion histories. We want Wikipedia to be a clean place, isn't it? If you want to contact me, then you are free to, my talk page is always open to everyone.
 * Does this help explain things a bit better? Well it explains a lot how good and very forbearing you are. Thanks for putting up such a nice and kind explanation. Many administrator have forgot to behave in a civil manner. At times, I understand, due to the huge stress, administrators look like harsh, but actually, in the end it looks like you people are good. That is why you are an admin and not me.
 * PS: This is not to make you go unhappy, but just a note. This draft was CSDed by me, but you reverted the edit saying that "it could become potentially notable", but I re-tagged it, and then it was deleted by . I should have brought that up to you, but didn't know that. Always thought that you people develop a 'grudge' suddenly out of nowhere and then start acting in your own way. But then someone(better not to bring the person into this), changed my idea about administrators completely. Then I understood the facts, and I brought this Abdolrahaman Sarrei deletion related problem up to you.
 * I apologize for this wall of text, but I couldn't help myself other than write this much. I as a distant speaker of English have to spend a lot of words to convey something. Thanks again for your extreme patience in handling this matter, even though you have dozens of cases like this. Wikipedia needs administrators like you. Thanks for your service here, and I also want to follow you footsteps, and reach a place so great as you. Sincerest regards, <b style="background:#bf4949;border:2px solid #000;padding:2px;color:#fffb8c;">Itcouldbepossible</b> Talk 16:13, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Tagging a test page
Why was the CSD tag removed on Draft:My Test Draft? It was clearly a test page and the creator of the article probably did not intend to ever move it to the mainspace or even submit it. 72.10.126.196 (talk) 16:40, 3 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, 72.10.126.196,
 * Because it was a Draft page where editors are allowed to test things out. Re-tag it if you want, I won't untag it again. That was just my opinion. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 17:35, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

William Helfand
Hello! I haven't heard from you in sometime. Next week, I plan on recreating the page on William Helfand. There will be similar content, but of course, nothing will be a direct copy. I apologize for the past copy, which was not meant to be a final draft. I removed that directly copied part shortly after I was notified about it, but the page was still deleted. William Helfand deserves a Wikipedia page and I believe I am in a good position to create one for him. Thank you for your help and support! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cczollo (talk • contribs) 19:56, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Category:Danish–Romanian translators
This category did have any entry. Now, it does. Thank you for signalizing it. :-))) When I created it, I had in mind the translator, writer and poet Barbu Nemțeanu. Something happened then and I was unable to add the category to the aforementioned article. Therefore, I have just done it, some minutes ago. Thank you, again. Yours, Wars (talk) 09:32, 5 June 2022 (UTC)

In the still of the night (Whitesnake song)‎
Hello Liz, my apologizes, as soon as I saw your edit summary, it dawned on me, one of the main reason for redirects is for search purposes. Thanks for reminding me. Cheers, -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 02:57, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, FlightTime,
 * To be honest, we have a lot of, what I think, are dumb redirects. I have nominated redirects that are wordy and long to WP:RFD and editors who frequent that deletion discussion board have found value in them...long, extended titles, misspellings, phrases that you think would never be a search term, and they have decided, "Keep". So, what seems "uncontroversial" to you and me, is not to others. Also, being brought to Deletion review can result in an admin hewing closely to the speedy deletion criteria. Please do not take an untagging personally as some editors are wont to do, it just meant that I saw things differently based on my experience patrolling CSD categories. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 03:04, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Draft:AliNawazChanna
hi liz this is musical Artist page you can search Google and check this official musical Artist dj music producer check in Spotify amazon music apple music search on Google Ali Nawaz Channa and check result — Preceding unsigned comment added by Channa Ali Nawaz (talk • contribs) 03:43, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

He's doing it again
Smasongarrison (talk) 23:08, 6 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hey Liz,
 * Unfortunately, he's escalated. I have reached out to an additional admin who knows about Mathsci's long history of problematic behavior.
 * But anything here's the current mess. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Words_to_watch#Wheelchair_bound Smasongarrison (talk) 03:55, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Please help me stop harassment from datalounge.com users Vandalizing and now trying to have my article deleted
Please help me stop harassment from datalounge.com users Who have not only posted that they’re actively trying to have my article removed that has been up for almost 10 years but the user who has just today put it up for deletion has a long history of causing problems according to his talk page. My page has also been vandalized extensively since October which is all visible in the edit history. You’ll also see where it links to postings on datalounge.com about some fanatics attempt at having my page removed all culminate in one direction, vengeance or a vendetta. My page might need some sort of polish from somebody who is editing skills understand the format but everything is properly referenced and I’ve had five top 40 billboard records, I’ve starred in the TV series, I’ve been a member of the Out 100 list I’ve won the Los Angeles drama critics Circle award I’m on TMZ‘s 10 funniest drunk celebrities. (That’s not listed on my Wikipedia obviously) and all of this is due two months of harassment from the online troll community at datalounge.com which a quick search will show you is the most vile disgusting cesspool on the Internet. Any help you can offer would be incredibly appreciated. Please forgive any weird typos I have a recovering injured right arm and hand therefore I’m relying on voice to text. Huge thanks, Jason Dottley Jasondottleyofficial (talk) 05:45, 8 June 2022 (UTC)


 * He would help if I told you a bit more information. My article is “Jason Dottley” and even though you can see this information on the talk page here is a link to a thread about having my article removed as a group effort https://www.datalounge.com/thread/30947120-miss-dottley-thinks-she-is-a-god-and-must-be-stopped! This user has suggested it for deletion but he also has a very bad reputation reading his talk page and he just blanked his talk page if you read what he removed it’s atrocious  User:MisterWizzy also see User:AugustusBuzby who vandalized in November.
 * Hopefully this is enough to get you started considering all the information is available on the talk page for my article. Thank you again Jasondottleyofficial (talk) 05:55, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Jasondottleyofficial,
 * Can you provide me with a link to the page you are concerned about? We don't consider articles anyone's property so the article isn't yours or mine or anyone else's, all pages, including this talk page, belong to the project. If it's been deleted, I have to see why it was deleted to know if anything can be done about it or whether the deletion was justified. If it hasn't been deleted, I need to see if there has been vandalism which you seem to think happened. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 06:06, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Of course absolutely. And yes I understand the page/article doesn’t belong to anybody it’s just an adjustment to make which is easy. Here is a link to the article Jason Dottley And the vandalism has occurred in the past 6 to 9 months and you can see that in the edit history and you can see how the editors have had to revert things that they called “vandalism” like someone added the word “allegedly” in front of nearly every word in the article.
 * The upsetting part is this collective troll effort from datalounge.com users who are posting and trying to gather people together to help get this page deleted, as well as doing other things that are very disruptive in my life. Thanks for the help and prompt response Also the page is not deleted, that was just added today by the user I mentioned, and so far no one agrees with him. Jasondottleyofficial (talk) 06:16, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Weird new account around WP pages
Hi,

Saw that you've been recently active via the Recently Active Users tool, and I know that you've been around AfD a lot, so I kind of want to ask for some help.

This concerns, created a few hours ago. I first noticed them when they voted keep on my AfD nom; this isn't about that specific vote, but associated behavior. They didn't sign their comment, but apparently knew enough to cite WP:NEXIST, albeit incorrectly, which I find as a bit of a contradiction. Maybe they edited before via an IP, because new users who know enough to go to AfD on their third edit while not having pages nominated for AfD themselves are few and far between. Even fewer are those who know to cite policy. They've also commented on ANI, again citing policy here. All (excluding my AfD nom because of my COI) of their comments or votes go against recent consensus/contradict the user they are replying to.

I know to WP:AGF, but this fact pattern seems awfully strange to me. Do you mind recommending courses of action? Iseult  Δx parlez moi 06:48, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

Teahouse invites
Hi Liz. Any idea why your tool would generate the teahouse invite when he already had been? Not a major issue, just trying to figure out why it didn't detect the earlier one? I'll delete mine but leaving for the evening in case you want to trouubleshoot. Star  Mississippi  02:37, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hey, Star Mississippi,
 * You are very observant! I sometimes go ahead with Teahouse invites if the previous one was accompanying an AFC evaluation. I think those ones might be missed by the editor rather than a stand-alone invitation. But in the future, I'll look at the date of the AFC invite and only place them on the Talk page if the previous invite was long ago, say a year ago. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 02:43, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh that makes total sense. I don't always tick it to generate an invite, but sometimes I think it might be helpful. I may be overly optimistic in this case but we'll see. Thanks for checking so quickly. Star   Mississippi  02:53, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Liz is great at remembering Teahouse invites. Several times I've seen her follow up with it when I've forgotten. Much appreciated. –– FormalDude  talk  05:48, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I went to Request a query to see if I could find out how many Teahouse invitations I've posted, using the standard template (I also invite in personal messages) and found I'd posted that message 7,142 times. I actually thought it was more! If I see an contributing editor has no User talk page, I post a Welcome and Teahouse invitation out of habit. I'm sure many of those editors never come back to Wikipedia but in case they do, there's some information they can use. I just know that if the Teahouse hadn't been there when I first started regularly editing in 2013, I would have quit the first month, I was so confused and frustrated. It's a great resource for those who know about it. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 06:01, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
 * 7 thousand. Wow. That's wonderfully insane. I agree about welcoming being an encouraging tool. We need all the editor help we can get. Star   Mississippi  15:12, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

Özlem Sarıkaya Yurt page
Hii Mrs. Liz I am not in this language who opened the article, but you know how correct it is to delete the article with just one vote? Shouldn't there be a more participatory vote, so I ask you to bring back the article and ensure a more comprehensive voting, if not, you know?--176.234.225.66 (talk) 09:15, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Regarding soft deletion
At Articles for deletion/V-Man - would you mind converting this into a redirect with a non-deleted history? <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 09:45, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Piotrus,
 * I'm not sure I am fully understanding your request. I created a redirect to Fox Feature Syndicate. You nominated the page for deletion so I'm not sure why you would want the deleted history restored as a contested Soft Deletion. Let me know if you wanted more than a simple redirect created. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:44, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * @Liz In general, I think that in such cases soft delete means redirecting while preserving history. If the topic becomes notable one day, it can be restored then, and more importantly, if we hide the revisions, the (re)creator may not realize there is some content to work with. I'd prefer to pre-emptively save time of that future editor, even if all they get is the lead/infobox/categories/some plot summary. And it also should save the closing admins's time, too - there's no need to delete anything, just close the Afd and redirect the entry (non-admins can do this too). PS. Also, the same applies to the talk page (Which I prefer to preserve whenever possible, as an archive of some old discussions that who knows what may be relavant for). <sub style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 08:12, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

Managed Extensibility Framework
Liz, you deleted the article (as expected). However, there is an ongoing report on the ANI against an crosswiki LTA. Please restore the article In order to improve them, as it is my current campaign. Thanks. --Amitie 10g (talk) 17:33, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Amitie 10g,
 * ✅ As a contested PROD, it's been restored. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:40, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Newt Scamander
Thanks for declining that speedy on Newt Scamander, I've been looking at it for 3 days and hesitating to do anything with it.

You said in your edit summary though that, "This page has sat at CSD for over 3 days with no admin taking action. They obviously don't think this draft article is ready for main space." I can only speak for myself, but it wasn't so much that I didn't think the draft was ready for mainspace, as that this redirect has history from before the article was merged, and I found the instructions at Requested_moves/Closing_instructions confusing, so I was leaving it for someone with more understanding of the round-robin procedure, but apparently such a person did not come by.

Anyway, at least now I don't have to see it in the speedy queue. ~  ONUnicorn (Talk&#124;Contribs) problem solving 18:36, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, ONUnicorn,
 * If a page has sat for 3 or more days in a CSD category with no one taking action on it, I typically remove the tag. We don't have as many admins patrolling CSD as we used to but I assume at least a few admins see each request and if no one takes action on it after a few days, then there is some disagreement about the validity of the tagging. The only exception I make is for copyright violations and I think that is because there is some confusion among admins about the degree of copyright violation that would require deletion, rather than rewriting. At least, I see articles linger in that category for days and that's my best guess for why that might be the case.
 * I didn't know about the merger and page history, I should have looked more closely at that. My point of view is that to be moved from Draft space to main space, the draft should look like a main space articles, all of the AFC tags and comments need to be removed first. It should be camera-ready for readers. That is usually done in most cases but some editors request a move while the draft is still in the submission phase, before anyone has reviewed the draft. Or a page creator says that the draft has been AFC approved and needs to be moved when you can clearly see a page full of declines and maybe even a rejection. I know that some admins disagree with my position, some will delete the main space page before a draft is ready to be moved so I typically don't untag CSD G6 move request pages unless they have been sitting there for days. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:54, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

Good morning
Good morning, ma'am! In fact, I want to change my username too. And I want my talk page to be deleted. Now, please tell me what I could do. I want to take your suggestions! Regards! --Haoreima (talk) 02:29, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Haoreima,
 * To change your username, just make a request at Changing username. Then, after your name has been changed, request that any redirects, from your old account to your new one, are deleted. I recommend reading Clean start. If you want to leave Wikipedia completely, you could request a Courtesy vanishing but that is only intended for those editors who want to leave and never come back. It is awkward if you do a courtesy vanishing and then come back to edit because then the vanishing has to be undone and you're back to your old account. And it sounded like you really wanted a new account so follow the advice on the Clean Start page. Good luck! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:44, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Deletion of Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Signpost/Archive 1
Hi Liz, it appears you may have accidentally deleted this page, which I think contained conversations spanning the first half decade of the Signpost (2005-2010) and is still linked from various other pages. Note also that G8, the quoted rationale, does not apply to such talk page archives. Regards, HaeB (talk) 08:52, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, HaeB,
 * First, thanks for recognizaing that it was an accident! There was a deletion tag on Wikipedia Signpost/Archive 1 and I use Twinkle for page deletions that have been tagged for speedy deletion. When you delete an article, Template, Category or Project page, Twinkle typically deletes the talk page and any redirects to the main page which was what happened. Of course, this shouldn't occur with talk page archives so thanks for bringing it to my attention so I could fix it. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:50, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Regards, HaeB (talk) 01:35, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Translated Arabic articles
Hello Liz,

I've only recently started monitoring Recent changes, specifically newly created pages. In the past two or three days, I've come across at least 20 problematic articles created by the same few users.

The articles are all translations of articles from the Arabic-language Wikipedia. All concerning relatively well-known books in Arabic. The contributors do not change a single thing. No translation template either. The article is machine translated, word-for-word, and the result is a badly worded, poorly referenced article that does not conform to English-language Wikipedia's guidelines on notability, referencing, and layout/style. I recognize many of these books, and I believe a large percentage of them clear the notability bar. It could be a great iniative, but this is not how it's done.

What should be done about this?

@Hanan Wadi, @Farah Afana, @Sanabagh, @Reyami.Alsalman, @Fatimah Al Ani Mooonswimmer 12:46, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Mooonswimmer,
 * A couple of questions. Do the editors provide attribution to the Arabic version of these articles? That's an important step with any translated article. Secondly, have you tried communicating with any of these editors, do they utilize talk pages? Something this complex, involving translated works and multiple editors is more than I usually handle as an individual administrator. If you are worried about any copyright violations, I'd go to Moneytrees as I consider them the admin most involved in the nuances of copyright. If it's a matter of editing the articles, I'd look over WikiProject Arab world/Members and see if there are any members who are still active editors on Wikipedia. For example, User:Faycal.09 still is active although they focus on sports, they might know an Arabic speaker who works in the area of literature.
 * I'd only go to ANI if the generation of newly created articles goes into overdrive and is more than our review processes can handle, like if dozens of low quality articles are being created daily. ANI tends to be a blunt instrument and the go-to solutions there are topic bans and blocks, neither of which sounds like the correct solution to potentially productive but inexperienced editors. Let me know your thoughts about these ideas. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:41, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Requesting revdel
per WP:RD2. Thanks. Dr.Pinsky (talk) 19:09, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Dr.Pinsky,
 * I typically revision delete edits that violate our rules about biographies of living people so I had to think about this as it involves a work of fiction and could be just a different understanding of the narrative. But the edits could be considered disruptive so I honored your request. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:29, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

June GOCE newsletter
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:39, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

AMU Henry Smalls
I don't know why my page was deleted, actually, let me rephrase that. I don't know why I can't make a page about myself. I just want people to know about more about me. I'm asking you to please, undelete my article, or send me a copy of my article. I worked hard on this and it hurts to let it go. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HenrySmalls17 (talk • contribs) 23:56, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Henry,
 * I answered your second query, below. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 23:02, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Contested page deleted Draft:E. L. P. Edirisinghe
Hi Liz, may I know why my draft was deleted when I had laid down my reason, contested it and no one had responded yet? I just received the notification that it was up for CSD. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 06:30, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for undeleting it. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 06:34, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Delta fiver,
 * I think the editor who tagged the page was looking for blank draft pages and your page turned up on the list. I have restored it. But to prevent it from getting tagged again, you might post some kind of content on the page to show that it is an actual draft and not a test page. We have a lot of editors who create pages and never return to edit them and I think that is what the page tagger was looking for when they were going through blank draft pages. Sorry for the mixup. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 06:36, 15 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Oh I see, now worries as at all and thank you for informing me. I've just added some content, couldn't get to editing it as I'm having my finals now, but thank you again. Delta fiver (talk) (UTC) 06:40, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Deletion of Daniel Fisher (composer) article
Hello Liz! I would like to discuss the deletion of the Daniel Fisher (composer) article. I wrote the text to be in the "style" of an encyclopedic Wikipedia article and Copyvio detected 0% similarity so there should be no copyright infringement. This is a notable musician who will appear in Billboard. Would you be willing to let me know what I should do or rewrite to have the page reinstated? MusicWizard7 (talk) 09:02, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, MusicWizard7,
 * Well, according to a very experienced editor, there was content on the article taken from https://danielfishermusic.com/bio webpage. There were not many edits to this page so I think the best solution for you is to write a new article from scratch in your own words in Draft space. The main space of the project is carefully patrolled by editors who tag pages for deletion for promotional language, copyright violations, advertising, for lack of notability and other unacceptable aspects. The atmosphere in Draft space is more forgiving and we allow for imperfect articles to improve over time and become better articles. It would help if you would submit a draft for review with our Articles for Creation who will review the draft and let you know if there are any problems that might lead to deletion. But please, do not borrow any content from any sources or closely paraphrase content either (just changing a word here and there). Good luck. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 23:01, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * There was one paraphrased paragraph, so upon the editor's concerns, I deleted it right away. What was left was fully original and written from scratch. Would you be willing to reinstate the article? MusicWizard7 (talk) 12:56, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Santadas Kathiababa's editing is important.
Why are you repeatedly deleting the important edit of Santadas Kathiababa. He was one of the important saints of Hinduism. He is the leader of the Nimbarka community of Hinduism around the world and the spiritual leader of the Hare Krishna movement. This edit is important to Wikipedia. His life was discussed in various media. So please make an edit of Santadas Kathiababa on Wikipedia. Srabanta Deb (talk) 10:37, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Srabanta Deb,
 * I don't know why you are coming to talk to me. I have never edited Santadas Kathiababa. I have never deleted Santadas Kathiababa. I didn't comment or close either Articles for deletion/Santadas Kathiababa or Articles for deletion/Santadas Kathiababa (2nd nomination). So, I don't know what you think I'm responsible for.
 * I have only two suggestions. If you want an article on Santadas Kathiababa on Wikipedia, write a draft article and submit it for review to Articles for Creation. An experienced AFC reviewer can asses your draft and advise you on where you need to improve it. Read the comments on both AFDs and you can see what problems editors had with the article that was deleted. Try to address these issues in your next draft so that there is no reason to nominate it for deletion again. You can't just claim that someone is important, you have to demonstrate why they are important by citing reliable, secondary sources that state this is so.
 * If you want a place to complain about Wikipedia policies, then, go to the Teahouse with your questions and perhaps someone there can better explain Wikipedia policy about deletion and AFD discussions. Good luck. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:51, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs recorded by Armaan Malik
Hi! Re Articles for deletion/List of songs recorded by Armaan Malik, I think your deletion of the article was closed too early given that the nominination relied on one single argument for deletion. Recent nominations of similar pages of songs recorded by singers (some opened on the same day) are getting wide support to be kept (this one, to name one), and this one would probably have gotten the same response had it not been deleted then.

Can you help us by restoring it or the nomination? Thank you, Shahid  •  Talk 2 me  13:53, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Shahid
 * Well, this discussion ran for 7 days so it wasn't closed too early. But since you requested it, I'll revert my closure, restore the article and relist it for another week. Please know that even with a relist, an AFD discussion that runs over 7 days can be closed at any time, it doesn't guarantee that it will be discussed for another 7 days. But I'll let another administrator close this. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:42, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello
Hi can you take a look at this user https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/185.237.17.44. This user reverts my edits (that I provided sources) for no reason at all. S.G ReDark (talk) 15:28, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, S.G ReDark,
 * I've been out most of the day and it looks like admin discospinster already go to this and blocked this editor. If you believe vandalism is being done, first, post a warning notice on the editor's talk page (this is easy using Twinkle) and if they continue, report them at WP:AIV. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:38, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

Draft:AMU Henry Smalls
I don't know why my page was deleted, actually, let me rephrase that. I don't know why I can't make a page about myself. I just want people to know about more about me. I'm asking you to please, undelete my article, or send me a copy of my article. I worked hard on this and it hurts to let it go. I don't have this anywhere else and I can't remember what I wrote. I was offline the whole time and it hurts that this would happen without me knowing. Can you please send me the data? HenrySmalls17 (talk) 18:27, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, HenrySmalls17,
 * You can write your autobiography but I can guarantee that it will be deleted. You need to meet Wikipedia's standards for notability to have an article. There are film & TV actors, politicians, scientists, authors, artists & performers, professional athletes, professors, musicians, CEOs, attorneys, etc., people who have a high public profile, who don't meet Wikipedia's notability requirements. Notability is something that is debated endlessly all day on Wikipedia at Articles for Deletion. Look over some of the discussions there and you can see there are lots of articles that exist on Wikipedia that are subsequently deleted because the individuals lack notability. Every day, I must delete over a dozen articles on different rappers. We get hundreds of drafts about rappers from all over the world, not just rappers in the U.S. but from all over Europe, Asia and Africa. I'm sure you are a good person, doing great work, but you must be exceptional and you must have your accomplishments verified by reliable, secondary sources to warrant an article on Wikipedia.
 * If you enable email on your account (set this up in your Preferences), then I can send you the content that was deleted. And please do not feel offended that you don't have an article about yourself on Wikipedia....yet. Now if you are ever discussed in the New York Times, the Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal, Science, Billboard, Rolling Stone or any other major publication, then probably someone else will write an article about you.
 * I hope you stick around and do what the rest of us do, work on improving articles about subjects other than ourselves! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:35, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I just confirmed my e-mail address HenrySmalls17 (talk) 22:47, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅. Sorry for the delay, HenrySmalls17. I get caught up in my work here and off-line activities. I wish you luck in your music career. Hopefully, if you have some success, you'll find an article about you on Wikipedia! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:42, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello
Hy, hope you are well, could you please semi protect this page [], this new ip [] made so many changes on it (removed sourced material, made dead links etc. in short term vandalized it) that it took me several edits to restore back to previous version and to remove all the dead links. Thank you. Theonewithreason (talk) 06:29 16.June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Theonewithreason,
 * I see that you reverted their primary edit and they came back on a different IP address to make minor edits today. Vandalism has a very specific meaning on Wikipedia, policy staes that it deliberately intended to obstruct or defeat the project's purpose, which is to create a free encyclopedia, in a variety of languages, presenting the sum of all human knowledge. While their edits might not have improved the article, I don't see repeated attempts to knowingly damage the article, it looks like they have a very specific POV that might not be neutral. It's not effective to block an editor who jumps from one IP address to another quite easily and I don't see repeated efforts to damage this article. But it's impossible to talk with an IP editor who changes addresses with every edit, otherwise I'd say start a talk page discussion.
 * I'm not going to protect the article today but you continue to see major edits that you believe falsify information or reflect a nationalistic POV, then come back to me or go to Requests for page protection and ask for page protection. The admins who patrol RPP will want to see persistent edits that are clearly vandalism before they will issue protection and it will like be short-term, just for a day or two. Thank you for your vigilance and your efforts to keep the article accurate. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:31, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello @Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"> thank you for noticing that the ip uses different addresses for vandalising, I did ask for page protection but still no answer, meanwhile, there is another ip who actually reverted the rest of edits that me and another editor did not manage to do before, restoring it back to the WP:stable but still it is a bit strange so many ip in few days. That is why i am asking for page protection. Theonewithreason (talk) 04:16 17.June 2022 (UTC)

Liz, did you delete my comment at Talk:Bernard Lewis bibliography?
I'm pretty sure I left a reply to 2A00:7C40:C210:221:E009:BC7A:345E:62C1's there. I understand the result of the AfD was keep, but surely that wouldn't be grounds for deleting wp:civil comments, would it? <span id="Guarapiranga:1655362289267:User_talkFTTCLNLiz" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 06:51, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Guarapiranga,
 * I looked through the page history of Talk:Bernard Lewis bibliography and don't see any comments by you on that page. I looked to see if there are any deleted comments for that page but there aren't any. Then I went through both your contributions and deleted contributions and can't see where you made any edits to that page at all, saved or deleted. I'm guessing you wrote out a response and didn't publish it. This can happen to me sometimes when I navigate out of a page to check a policy page or another article to get a reference or find a link I want to add to my comment. Since nothing had been saved, there is no way to recover whatever your comment was. I wish I could help you out and if I had accidentally deleted your words I would immediately restore them but I can't find anything. Sorry. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:19, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing you wrote out a response and didn't publish it. It's quite possible. I only asked you bc I saw you closed the AfD. Thanks for following it up, Liz. <span id="Guarapiranga:1655428528432:User_talkFTTCLNLiz" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 01:15, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Terribly sorry, Liz, just found I had replied here, not there. <span id="Guarapiranga:1655434677321:User_talkFTTCLNLiz" class="FTTCmt">— Guarapiranga ☎ 02:57, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, Guarapiranga, I'm glad you figured that out. Those little things ("I know I commented SOMEWHERE!") can drive you mad! It happens to me with certain points of policy I need to refer to and I know I've read the reference many times but I can't find the exact page where that content is. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 03:04, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Deleted EdUBudgie Linux draft - no idea why
Liz - it appears you deleted th EdUBudgie Linux DRAFT page. I created this page, bookmarked it, and intended to come back to fill it in as soon as the webpage was updated. Then I received an email that this was deleted. It was a draft - my understanding was that draft pages can exist for some time - I thought that I had read something like 6 months before they were deleted. Is that incorrect? What is the timeframe then for drafts to exist before they are deleted? It has been one month. Can you please explain why this draft was deleted as it is something that I had intended to add to and do not understand why this has happened? "Deletion of old drafts Drafts that have not been edited in six months may be deleted under criterion for speedy deletion G13. Most G13 nominations for deletion are done by bots or users using Twinkle or AFCH, processes that inform the draft creator on their talk page. Pages deleted under G13 may be restored upon request at WP:REFUND (see Wikipedia:Requests for undeletion/G13)."

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Teacheradamodix (talk • contribs) 08:14, 16 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Teacheradamodix,
 * I have restored Draft:EdUBudgie Linux. It was tagged for deletion as a "test page" because it had no content. Many editors create pages as test edits and never come back to them so I assume that's what the tagging editor thought. You might put some content on the page so that this mistake won't happen again. As for your question about draft, drafts are considered "stale" if it has been at least 6 months since a human being has edited them (bot edits don't count). But, as in this case, they can be deleted sooner if the page is blank. If you could just put some content on the page, hopefully relevant to the article you plan on writing, that would demonstrate to our page patrollers that someone is working on a draft on this subject, that would help. Sorry about the unexpected deletion and good luck with your article. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:11, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, I understand. Sorry, I freaked out for a moment there thinking that perhaps it meant that I couldn't re-open the page with that name at all and that it was gone forever etc etc etc.
 * I am new to this and joined specifically for this article, but I may edit others as you do in the future if this goes well.
 * I will add something to the page soon so that it isn't blank as you recommended. Thank you for the help and sorry for the extra efforts.  Have a great weekend! Teacheradamodix (talk) 08:21, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Teacheradamodix, you're completely justified in freaking out. We really leave drafts alone, for the most part, unless there are copyright violations or if they are promotional or advertising, until they hit that "6 months of inactivity" mark. I'd also question an admin if a draft I was working on was unexpectedly deleted. I'm glad you came to me and I hope your work turns out to be a great article once you get all of the content and refernces that you need. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:19, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Racism in Myanmar (June 17)
<div style="border: solid 1px #FCC; background-color: #F8EEBC; padding: 0.5em 1em; color: #000; margin: 1.5em; width: 90%;"> Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by TipsyElephant were:

The comment the reviewer left was:

Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.


 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Racism in Myanmar and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:Racism in Myanmar, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "Db-g7" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
 * If you do not make any further changes to your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
 * If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Articles_for_creation/Help_desk&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Racism_in_Myanmar Articles for creation help desk], on the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:TipsyElephant&action=edit&section=new&nosummary=1&preload=Template:AfC_decline/HD_preload&preloadparams%5B%5D=Draft:Racism_in_Myanmar reviewer's talk page] or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

TipsyElephant (talk) 13:36, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

AfC and G6
Hi Liz! I hope you are doing well. I noticed you have left notes to AfC reviewers asking them to cleanup drafts to make them "mainspace ready" before requesting a redirect be deleted. However, that is not how AfC works. The cleanup does not occur until the draft is accepted and moved to mainspace. This is done essentially all in one click: cleanup (removes previous declines, AfC comments, the pending submission template, etc.), moves it, adds WikiProjects, categories, etc.). We cannot accept a draft/move it, until the redirect is deleted.  Does that make sense? S0091 (talk) 21:13, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, S0091,
 * Thanks for the information but I don't really understand. It is only a minority of draft space page move requests that I encounter that still contain all of the AFC content on them. Most of the time, they are "clean", they look exactly like main space articles so it is no problem to move them. Why are some drafts polished and ready to be moved while others look like they haven't even been reviewed yet?
 * If there is still a "review in process" template at the top of the page, how do I know that the draft has been accepted? I encounter new editors all of the time that say their drafts have been AFC approved and want them moved into main space when the drafts often haven't even been reviewed yet, much less approved. Is there a way that an editor can "approve" a draft and later move it to main space? This would be very helpful.
 * If this is not possible, then I think the solution is just for me to leave these pages alone and not untag them. I'll let an admin who is more familiar with the AFC process to take action on them. There really should be a way that the AFC reviewer can say the draft is approved and is in process of being finalized so patrolling admins can identify an approved draft from one that hasn't been approved. But, like I said, I'll just let them be. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:27, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Without seeing examples, I cannot say why some are clean other than maybe they are not AfC submissions. There was actually a new CSD template created back in February to address your concerns (at least in part), which should make it clear it is a request from an AfC reviewer.  However, absent that, you can check to see if they are an AfC reviewer at WP:WikiProject Articles for creation/Participants.  I generally state in my CSD edit summary why I am requesting the deletion (to accept such-and-such draft), then I add an AfC comment on the draft stating I waiting for a redirect to be deleted in order to accept but not sure what other AfC reviewers do.  There is no way for an AfC reviewer accept a draft without actually moving it because that is part of the accept, unless they choose to do all the things the script does automatically manually, which is not desirable of course.  Yeah, if you are not comfortable doing the deletion then probably best to skip them unless you want to go through the extra steps to verify it is an AfC reviewer request, which is also not desirable.  Its one of those situation where I wish you could see what I see and you wish I could see what you see.  I think we both would have an "oh yeah...makes total sense" moment for our different perspectives.  S0091 (talk) 22:08, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, S0091. This is helpful, I'll look at the template. Two things occur to me. With the "clean" page moves I'm referring to, the admin is being asked to delete the redirect (it usually is a redirect) and move the draft in one click. But what you are talking about is the admin deleting the page and then the AFC reviewer doing the page move. Secondly, I can also see who is tagging the redirect page for deletion and see if it is an AFC reviewer vs. a regular editor. But, mostly, I think I'll just pass on taking action if things are unclear to me and just not tell anyone want they should or shouldn't be doing which I think was your original complaint! I'm sorry if I was offering advice to any AFC reviewers that was contradictory to the best practices you all follow. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:14, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Liz, you are a very conscientious admin and were giving correct advice based on your experience with the vast majority of situations you deal with, which I now understand from your comments. No need to apologize!  Thanks for taking the time to discuss. :) S0091 (talk) 22:28, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

excessive vandalism
excessive vandalism in List of most-streamed songs on Spotify Tirso Gutiérrez (talk) 22:52, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Tirso Gutiérrez,
 * You have made the most edits to that page in recent days (by far the most), and I don't see a lot of vandalism that has been reverted. Remember, except for a small group of protected pages, anyone can edit Wikipedia and can contribute to this article in ways that you disagree with. That's why we have talk pages, so editors can discuss changes where there is disagreement. Don't be reluctant to start a talk page discussion if you find an edit of yours reverted and you what to discuss it. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:35, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Olympian closures
Hi Liz,

Regarding your closures of those discussions as "redirect", can I ask why you closed them as "redirect" rather than "delete"? I am not seeing a consensus there for redirection - for example, at Articles for deletion/Kurt Reichenbach I say a redirect is not supported due to WP:R #1 (three other Kurt Reichenbach's are mentioned on Wikipedia, any one of which it would be reasonable for a reader to be searching for, and the first two are probably more likely to be searched for than the Olympian - the commander of various U-Boats, the Swiss Mixed curling champion, or the singer). This argument was not addressed by the sole editor who supported redirection, while it was convincing to the other responding editor. BilledMammal (talk) 02:24, 18 June 2022 (UTC)


 * I think BilledMammal has a valid point here and I don't believe the closure was appropriate, especially considering the two participating editors are now subject to an arbcom case in relation to deletion discussions. I'd suggest self-reverting and relisting as it isn't a clear consensus. Bungle (talk • contribs) 08:54, 18 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, BilledMammal & Bungle,
 * You make some valid points. I'll revert and relist this discussion. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:18, 18 June 2022 (UTC)


 * ✅ Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:29, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

DeaconShotFire unblock
There is currently a discussion at Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. -- Deep fried okra ( talk ) 17:40, 18 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Deepfriedokra,
 * Thanks for letting me know. I'll have to refresh my memory on this case. I'm sure glad that you are handling so many unblock requests these days, you seem to have a better BS detector than I have. Not talking about this specific case but in general. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:31, 18 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you
Hello Liz, I hope you are well. I just wanted to thank you for the help you gave me back in August 2020 when I set this account up but wanted to delete it. You helped me understand that whilst deleting accounts is impossible on MediaWiki, I could do stuff like delete my user page and blank my talk. In the end, I decided to stick around and now I am a pending changes reviewer, patrolling recent changes with RedWarn and hopefully soon I will be a roll backer. I have completely got to grips with the Wikipedia community and policies and I have really enjoyed contributing. I will be continuing to improve Wikipedia for a long time, it is good. Thank you again. Kind regards, Blanchey (talk) 17:05, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Deleting ‘The Spoof.com’ draft page
I received your message regarding deletion of my draft article. I have nothing to add to make the article meet publication requirements (it was my first attempt at writing a Wikipedia article.) Go ahead and delete it.

MvT (talk) 19:41, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Undeletion request
I am requesting undeletion of Negus Nurse article. No consensus reached.Capture2015 (talk) 05:34, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Capture2015,
 * This AFD closed as a Soft Deletion which means that the article can be restored upon request. So, I have done this. Please consider the criticisms of the article in the AFD and work on improving it. The article can easily be nominated for 2nd AFD and, in that case, there will be no second Soft Deletion. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 05:46, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Liz. I've got a question about this just out of personal curiosity. Should Old prod or Old XfD multi be added to the talk pages of articles which are soft-deleted (like in this case) via AFD, but then are subsequently restored. -- Marchjuly (talk) 06:13, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Marchjuly,
 * What a good question. I think Old XfD multi would be more appropriate. Are you very adept with templates? Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 06:17, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't think I'd consider myself adept, but I gave it go and added the "Old XfD multi" template to Talk:Negus Nurse. -- Marchjuly (talk) 03:24, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society
Dear ,

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the Fifteen Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for fifteen years or more. &#x200B;

Best regards, Chris Troutman  ( talk ) 14:10, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Follow up: undeletion request
Hello Liz, my reply to you above, regarding article Daniel Fisher (composer), may have gotten lost in the shuffle. When you have a moment, would you have a look at my undeletion request? Everything should be in order. MusicWizard7 (talk) 12:47, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, MusicWizard7,
 * Well, I asked you if you'd be willing to submit it to AFC because of previous copyright problems and you didn't answer that question. I don't want to restore a page that you'l move back to main space and it will just get deleted again for any number of reasons. Then someone comes to my talk page asking me why I restored a bad article!
 * I'm sorry for the delay in my reply though. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 16:02, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello Liz, Apologies that you were waiting for my answer to that question. I would prefer to avoid AFC because (after my edit) 100% of the article was written from scratch and there are no copyright issues. Thus, if you could restore the page, that would be appreciated and I think most efficient. Thank you! MusicWizard7 (talk) 16:59, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, MusicWizard7,
 * You're not telling me what I was hoping to hear. And, I'm going to tell you something that you probably don't want to hear: I've restored the article to Draft space, you can find it at Draft:Daniel Fisher (composer).
 * I advise you to submit it for review to AFC. I can almost guarantee you that if you don't improve the article, if you move it directly back into main space of the project, it will likely to be tagged for deletion again. We have very vigilant page patrollers. And it will be more difficult to restore the page a second time if it gets deleted again. I can't force you to take my advice, I'm just telling you what I've seen over the past 9 years I've been editing here when I've seen this situation happen. Articles that are deleted and restored, get deleted again if the reason for the first deletion aren't addressed and the article improved. Good luck! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:05, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Turkupt13
Hi @Liz, if you get some time, please can you help me in checking the articles that I've listed at WP:CCI. The user shared a document on VRTS that says a number of over 55 articles published on turkistantravel website are freely licensed and could be used on Wikipedia. The articles that I've listed have been deleted for copyright violation of this website. I'd be glad if you assist me in this. Thanks. ─ The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  06:22, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, TheAafi,
 * I've never done any work at WP:CCI so I'm afraid I really wouldn't know what I'm doing. As far as copyright violations go, I just check pages that have been tagged as CSD G12 to make sure the tag is appropriate. I work a lot with draft pages so if I see something that looks copied, I'll check that but I don't know how you look at past, partial edits for copyright violations and how you resolve them. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 16:08, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the best person I should seek help from would be Diannaa from whom I've learnt a lot about copyright. ─ The Aafī on Mobile   (talk)|undefined  20:05, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I just see C.Fred has restored one article that they had deleted. ─ The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  20:09, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The best thing to do is to ask the admin who deleted each article to restore it. Also, a template will need to be added to the talk page of each restored article. — Diannaa (talk) 21:14, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * This is best. I've reached to all the deleting admins. I'd definitely be adding permissions on the talk pages. Thanks for the idea! ─ The Aafī   (talk)|undefined  21:35, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

New Page Patrol newsletter June 2022
Hello ,

At the time of the last newsletter (No.27, May 2022), the backlog was approaching 16,000, having shot up rapidly from 6,000 over the prior two months. The attention the newsletter brought to the backlog sparked a flurry of activity. There was new discussion on process improvements, efforts to invite new editors to participate in NPP increased and more editors requested the NPP user right so they could help, and most importantly, the number of reviews picked up and the backlog decreased, dipping below 14,000 at the end of May.
 * Backlog status

Since then, the news has not been so good. The backlog is basically flat, hovering around 14,200. I wish I could report the number of reviews done and the number of new articles added to the queue. But the available statistics we have are woefully inadequate. The only real number we have is the net queue size.

In the last 30 days, the top 100 reviewers have all made more than 16 patrols (up from 8 last month), and about 70 have averaged one review a day (up from 50 last month).

While there are more people doing more reviews, many of the ~730 with the NPP right are doing little. Most of the reviews are being done by the top 50 or 100 reviewers. They need your help. We appreciate every review done, but please aim to do one a day (on average, or 30 a month).

A backlog reduction drive, coordinated by buidhe and Zippybonzo, will be held from July 1 to July 31. Sign up here. Barnstars will be awarded.
 * Backlog drive

Many new articles on schools are being created by new users in developing and/or non-English-speaking countries. The authors are probably not even aware of Wikipedia's projects and policy pages. WP:WPSCH/AG has some excellent advice and resources specifically written for these users. Reviewers could consider providing such first-time article creators with a link to it while also mentioning that not all schools pass the GNG and that elementary schools are almost certainly not notable.
 * TIP – New school articles

There is a new template available,, to show the current backlog. You can place it on your user or talk page as a reminder:
 * Misc

There has been significant discussion at WP:VPP recently on NPP-related matters (Draftification, Deletion, Notability, Verifiability, Burden). Proposals that would somewhat ease the burden on NPP aren't gaining much traction, although there are suggestions that the role of NPP be fundamentally changed to focus only on major CSD-type issues.


 * Reminders
 * Consider staying informed on project issues by putting the project discussion page on your watchlist.
 * If you have noticed a user with a good understanding of Wikipedia notability and deletion, suggest they help the effort by placing on their talk page.
 * If you are no longer very active on Wikipedia or you no longer wish to be part of the New Page Reviewer user group, please consider asking any admin to remove you from the list. This will enable NPP to have a better overview of its performance and what improvements need to be made to the process and its software.
 * To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.
 * Notes

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:01, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Soumendu Lahiri (2nd nomination)
Respected Madam, I created an article on Soumendu Lahiri(Bengali Poet & Guitarist) which has been nominated for deletion, but I was not notified by the editor who tagged the page. Madam I have read wiki guidelines on notability and after that I created this article on this poet who got honor from The Hon'ble Governor of West Bengal, India. Soumendu Lahiri has some independent books which have ISBN. He has also been the subject of some news articles & his literary works have been published on renowned newspapers. But this page has been nominated for deletion and please permit me to mention that the person who tagged the page for deletion is not giving any satisfactory answer. You please see the afd debate as I'm not getting satisfactory answer from the person who tagged for deletion. Point to be noted that he is an Administrator of Bengali Wikipedia where from the page of Soumendu Lahiri has been deleted very recently. But the page had enough references to be remained. Respected Madam, I beg to you to please check the article Soumendu Lahiri on English Wikipedia and solve the matter. With Best Regards --- Tbengalieditor  >  Talk  12:58, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Tbengalieditor,
 * I'm not going to go into personal matters or a feud between you and another editor. But the problem that I see in this AFD nomination is that it is an argument between you, the article creator, and the AFD nominator. It needs feedback from other editors who can also evaluate the sources. So, I've relisted the AFD discussion for another week and hopefully more editors will weigh in.
 * I'm not a content creator but my suggestion to you, besides only providing high quality sources (a few reliable sources are better than many unreliable ones) is to reduce the Honors section to just the primary, prestigious awards he might have received. You don't need to mention every acknowledgment he has gotten and that section is generally only included for the most well-known authors. Good luck! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 21:50, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Ma'am may I delete or reduce the honor section? Regards --- Tbengalieditor  >  Talk  03:06, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Well, in my experience, Tbengalieditor, it's better to have a short, to-the-point article, listing the most prominent, well sourced aspects of someone's career than to have a longer article with a reference from every time they were ever mentioned in the media. Concise is better than too long and padded with bad citations. You can save all of those other honors for when you write a book about them. Unless they won a Nobel prize, were elected Prime Minister or cured cancer, the top 2-3 honors is sufficient to show that they might have had a distinguished career. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:54, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Ok Ma'am I will reduce extra details from recognition section and will only keep the most important parts. Regards - Tbengalieditor  >  Talk  19:00, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

CSD G4 candidate
Thought you might be interested: I tagged Draft:Las Cruces Academy with CSD G4 template. Don't know why I didn't think of it before... Cheers! ─ Grand&#39;mere Eugene (talk) 18:12, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Grand'mere Eugene,
 * Well, actually, there is disagreement among administrators whether or not CSD G4 applies to Draft space. Some admins say, "Absolutely not!" while other admins are less strict about it. The idea here is that the only way an AFD deletion decision can be overcome is to write a superior draft and submit it for review to WP:AFC. Since many AFDs were years ago and might have had few participants, there must be a way for new editors to address problems that were brought up in an AFD discussion and write a better article and Draft space is where this can be done. This situation is not true for the draft you tagged for deletion as it looks like the page creator had one copy of the article in main space and one copy in Draft space. Sometimes in these cases the admin closing the AFD discussion will delete the draft at the same time but not in this instance.
 * My own inclination is, as long as there is no problematic content, leave drafts alone if it looks like the page creator has stopped their work on it and let them "age out" as CSD G13s in six months. Then, if the editor returns one day, the page can be restored and the editor can try to write a stronger article. But that's just my point of view and I always hope that editors can learn from their unsuccessful efforts and write better articles with fewer problems...but the reality though is that most people facing the deletion of their articles just leave Wikipedia and do something else with their time. While I'm with most Wikipedia editors and want more, high quality articles added to the project, I can understand their frustration with meeting all of the requirements of our system. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 22:03, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, that's helpful. — Grand&#39;mere Eugene (talk) 22:11, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Band of Pride AfD
Hey, not sure how I missed this AfD. I haven't had time to do a full search yet, but just a quick search of newspapers.com revealed potential sources like this, this, this, this, this, and this that really should have been brought forward at the AfD. Thanks!! Ejgreen77 (talk) 04:25, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Ejgreen77,
 * The AFD closed as Soft Delete so I've restored it for you. Please feel free to add some superior sources to the article. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 04:42, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you!!! Ejgreen77 (talk) 17:06, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Pringle and Bardawil
Hi Liz. I see you deleted the article on Qasr Bardawil, and I guess also the ones on Denys Pringle and Paul Deschamps, because the one who created them is blocked. Technically more than correct, but I do miss the material on the two researchers. I would happily recreate those two articles, based on the pre-existing but deleted work, but I don't know how to access it. Can you please help out? The blocked editor was in no way someone I could agree with on many topics, the Qasr Bardawil article had no merit (a mere spin-off of the al-'Al Castle material), but I was indeed very happy for having the other two, stubs as they were. Thank you! Arminden (talk) 05:07, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, Arminden,
 * I think I'm a little slow this morning but it's not clear to me exactly what you are asking for. Were you seeking restoration of the articles? Did you want me to pull out the references from the deleted pages, put them on a new draft page so you could write a new article from scratch? I did look at one of the pages and see that yuo had edited the page so if you made a substantial contribution (which is difficult to judge on a deleted page), then that would be grounds for restoring it.
 * If you could be a bit more specific then I could tell you whether or not it is possible. Remember, all I can do is say "No" so it doesn't hurt to ask. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:48, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Liz, and thanks. Yes, I would appreciate having access to the Bardawil, Pringle and Deschamps material as it was before deletion, if possible. Sorry, I don't know what the rules are, but I felt the principle were to offer information rather than punish wrongdoers, especially if articles created by them went on being edited by legit editors. I miss the 2 articles on Pringle and Deschamps, and I'd be happy to rewrite them (and salvage a small bit from Bardawil and move it to al-'Al), but starting from scratch after they'd already been there and taken time and work feels Sisyphean and cuts down my enthusiasm to zero. If you had pinged me before they were gone, I'd have done it while they were still there. What can be done now please? Thank you and have a great Sunday! Arminden (talk) 10:03, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi User:Arminden, yeah, I have the same problem as you. After I asked over here, the Pringle article thankfully got undeleted. I would wish for those other articles mentioned also be undeleted, perhaps moved to Draft-space? cheers, Huldra (talk) 22:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Arminden and Huldra,
 * I'm sorry for the delay in responding but I find if I don't respond immediately to talk page messages, the messages move up the page and I lose track of them.
 * I have restored Qasr Bardawil and moved it to Draft:Qasr Bardawil. I'm afraid if the article is in main space, it will just be tagged for deletion again unless more substantial contributions are made to the draft. I'm reluctant to restore Paul Deschamps because the page was only edited by the sockpuppet and it was deleted by another administrator. Thank you for taking an extra step, Huldra, to help Arminden out with Denys Pringle. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 00:14, 29 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hi, and thanks to you both. I'm on a holiday, but will be back soon.
 * Regarding Deschamps: whatever means of not starting from scratch would do. I never knew about draft space, it's as good as any other method. If you place the deleted material here at the bottom for a while until I copy it, or send it by email, or in any other way: thank you Liz, and I'll take it from there. Cheers, Arminden (talk) 07:07, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * thanks, Liz, for moving Qasr Bardawil to draft. Is it possible to do the same for:
 * Emmanuel Guillaume-Rey, important (historic) Crusader scholar; his work is used many places on en.wp
 * Hauran Sanjak; important regional entity in the Ottoman Empire, (like Nablus Sanjak, Gaza Sanjak and Safed Sanjak), cheers, Huldra (talk) 21:48, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Liz. Thanks for taking the time. Draft:Qasr Bardawil: I only wanted to save whatever can be used for al-'Al Castle, which is where practically all of the material comes from anyway. The talk-page is of more interest to me than the draft article itself.
 * In contrast to that, the Paul Deschamps stump is certainly worth quarrying for a new start - French Wiki has a nice article on him. Could you please dump whatever Alas2022 had already written onto my talk-page, and I'll take it from there, together with ? I promise not to start anew without substantial changes to Alas's material, so as to justify a new article.
 * I also fully support Huldra's other proposals, these are worthy topics constantly popping up. Thanks again! Arminden (talk) 14:48, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

A hand please?
Hello @Liz. I've seen you around at AFD, so your familiar name and recently active status means I have reached out to you for an admin perspective. I do a little 'lite' new page patrolling, tagging really low hanging fruit with CSD11 tags. Today I tagged Draft: Govind Dholakia, which by the way, has already been deleted thrice. The author, @Brakshit23 has left a polite but misguided note on my talk page about it's tagging. Normally I'd just respond, but last time someone tagged the article (an admin named JBW), immediately complained to JBW here, then before JBW could resolve it escalated to ANI. So, hoping you would please have a word with this user and see if we cannot end this salting>complain>delete cycle. Thanks, Max. MaxnaCarta (talk) 06:36, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hie Max.. Appreciate your words and thanks once again to provide your inputs. I wrote that way harsh because it was my 1st proper contribution. But this time i have tried my bit as per the shared guidelines and shared knowledge. Please spare a bit time. read the article once and please share your views. this time its way simpler, neutral and without any biasness. please Brakshit23 (talk) 07:05, 25 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Hello, MaxnaCarta (and Brakshit23),
 * Although articles on this subject have been deleted before, and the main space page, Govind Dholakia, is protected from recreation of the article, your CSD tagging was reviewed and removed by an administrator as you know by their comment on your User talk page. Do not retag the draft unless you find it meets a different criteria for deletion such as copyright infringment. Even though past versions of this article have been deleted before, we don't normally prevent future, different versions from being created unless they are blatant advertising, which an admin decided this was not.
 * I don't see any threats or escalations made in their talk page comment to you so I don't see any misconduct occurring except an editor reaching out to discuss your deletion tagging of a page they created. While articles on this subject have been deleted in the past, unless recreation of a draft is prevented by page protection, editors have a right to try again. Brakshit23 will have to receive AFC reviewer approval to move this draft into main space after the page protection is lifted so I don't think you need to be concerned about this draft any longer.
 * I would advise you to let this one go and continue your good work and move on to reviewing some main space pages. We allow a lot of experimentation and article development in Draft space, more than is permitted in main space, so I think your efforts are better spent tagging promotional or copyright-violating content in main space than in reviewing drafts. We don't expect drafts to be perfect and meet Wikipedia standards which is why about half of the speedy deletion criteria (the CSD "A" ones) are only for main space articles, they don't apply to Draft space pages. I hope this has alleviated some of your concerns. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:23, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Liz. MaxnaCarta (talk) 23:28, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Liz. Thanks MaxnaCarta.
 * Liz Currently i am trying to improve draft in draft space and get approval in review. please refer this one and suggest me if something to correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Govind_Dholakia Brakshit23 (talk) 08:56, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

Yamata Amasung Keibu Keioiba
I had pinged you at WP:Requests for undeletion. Jay (talk) 07:15, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Jay,
 * Thanks for letting me know. I've taken care for it. Have a great weekend. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:00, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/SMP Negeri 1 Kemangkon
Hi Liz, thanks for the closure there, but I actually nominated two articles for deletion in that AFD ... did I not make that clear enough? I've gone and deleted the second one, SD Negeri 1 Pegandekan, myself ... I don't think that's a problem even if I nominated it because (a) you closed the AFD and (b) it's the worst of the two articles in that deletion discussion ... it's just about an elementary school. If you want to undelete/redelete it or something, be my guest. Graham 87 15:11, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Graham,
 * Thanks for letting me know. I think it was a combination of relying too much on XfDCloser to do all of the work and having on-and-off computer problems for most of yesterday evening. I'll look more carefully in the future for additional pages proposed for deletion that are mentioned within the nomination statement. And maybe you can list them all together at the top of the nomination statement? Sorry for the mix-up. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 17:53, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Tetea Hmar
The page I created was deleted though I explained the purpose as: "This page should not be speedily deleted because it is meant for a redirect to Lalnghinglova Hmar, who in the media is popularly known by the name Tetea Hmar." I don't know what exactly went wrong with mu editing, but it had todo with the tool. In fact, the person is more popular as Tetea in his native community, and a redirect may be useful. Chhandama (talk) 06:03, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Chhandama,
 * Are you talking about Tetea Hmar? This page was blank with just a broken redirect. Feel free to recreate a new redirect page but please, target it to an existing article, do not have a broken redirect as that will just get deleted. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 00:44, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, and thanks. Chhandama (talk) 04:02, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 June 2022
<div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:31, 26 June 2022 (UTC)

Clayola Brown
This article was written by me. However, it does not appear here. I'd appreciate, if you could spare some time to look into this matter. Regards. Dr.Pinsky (talk) 17:37, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Dr.Pinsky,
 * I'm no expert on https://xtools.wmflabs.org/! But if looks like Nathan2055 made the first edit on this page so he is given credit as the page creator...it isn't who added the most content to the article but who created or started the page who is given credit as article creator as far as I can tell.
 * If you have further questions, I recommend going to Help desk or Village pump (technical) where someone with technical knowledge about Wikipedia features and tools might be able to offer you some advice. Good luck! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:20, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Why did I get this notification if Nathan2055 was credited as the author of the article? I'm perplexed. Thanks. Dr.Pinsky (talk) 18:51, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Dr.Pinsky,
 * Because the system is counter intuitive? For example, I look at expiring drafts all day and if I see one that looks promising, I submit it for review to AFC. So, when it gets declined or accepted, AFC notifies me, the person who submitted the draft, not the article creator. I've asked them about this but this is how the system is set up so I just accept that I get credit or rejection for draft articles I didn't write simply because I added an AFC submit tag to the page. I know this isn't a great explanation for why things work the way they do around here but I hope it does explain why you received a notification.
 * What I run into often is, Editor A writes an article. It is not in good shape. So, Editor B moves the article to Draft space and tags the original page for CSD R2 deletion. But, before an admin can delete the page, Editor A removes the speedy deletion tag and cuts and pastes the article back on to the main space page. Now, if this page gets deleted later, Editor B will receive the notification even though they didn't write the article but they created the page when they made it into a redirect to Draft space. So, I get get questions from page patrollers all of the time, "Why are you notifying me of this article tagged for deletion, I didn't write it!" But, as helpful as it is, Twinkle is also a little dumb and just looks for who made the first edit to the page. It looks like that is what happened with Clayola Brown, Nathan2055 moved the page from your User space to Draft space, creating a redirect and then an article was built on top of that redirect page.
 * I don't know if you keep count of these things on your User page but I think you can still list yourself as the article creator on your User page as it does look like you were the main contributor to the article (even if xtools doesn't recognize this fact!). Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 19:14, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks Liz. Much appreciated. Dr.Pinsky (talk) 19:20, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * This happened because Nathan2055 moved a previous sandbox you had developed to Draft space before accepting, which "created" a redirect for navigational purposes. Dr.Pinsky created an article from this newly created history, so it is not showing in xtools, which is merely going by the first edit in the history.  The AFC acceptance notification went to Dr.Pinsky because of who actually submits the article to be accepted.  A history split for the first two revisions can be requested using History split at the top of Clayola Brown, or posting at WP:Requests for history merge (specifying you actually want a split, not merge).  Or Liz (or any admin), could just delete the first two revisions from the history... I don't think you really need to split the history to preserve two revisions of a redirect in your own sandbox that were only helping with navigation (essentially a missed WP:U1 prior to new sandboxing). -2pou (talk) 19:22, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Much obliged. Dr.Pinsky (talk) 07:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Your AfC query
You might not check back at the AfC talk and I know your ping notifications are out of control so posting my comment here as well:

The acceptance notice is part of the AfC script and as far as I know not an option. The editors are not "purposefully" posting it their talk page like you do with most other notices. The more you and I discuss AfC the more I am recognizing how different it is from other processes. S0091 (talk) 23:42, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, S0091,
 * You are right on the money, I don't look at my ping notifications. It gets up to 99+, I try to clear it and soon it is back up to 99+ again. Doing this means that I miss out a lot on discussions but I just don't want to spend my time on Wikipedia following pings around to different pages when there is so much work to keep me busy.
 * I appreciate your explanation and that of other AFC reviewers. It kind of leaves the question of why an AFC reviewer would submit a draft (their own or someone else's) for review in order to give it approval when they could just move the page to main space. But maybe receiving that note of approval means a lot to people even when you are giving it to yourself! I know I think twice about tagging a page for deletion if I see in the page history that the article has gotten a positive AFC review so it can matter. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:57, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Deletion Review: Pauline Preterism
Hi! I would like to request for the undeletion of Pauline Preterism page and change its title to Pauline Eschatology since it's not a neologism. Also, it won't appear as an original work and it can be properly sourced. Please restore the page so that I can make edits to it. Thank you. Transformium (talk) 07:37, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Transformium,
 * I closed Articles for deletion/Pauline Preterism as "Delete" based on the discussion I reviewed. I can't overturn this decision based on my own opinion. If you believe that my assessment was incorrect, you can file a notice at Deletion review and ask for my decision to be reviewed.
 * The only way I know to overcome an AFD deletion decision is to write a draft article, which addresses the problems editors found with the original article, and submit it for review with Articles for Creation. However, if you write a new version of this article and put it back in the main space of the project, it will be tagged for speedy deletion CSD G4 as the recreation of an article deleted in an AFD discussion. Going through AFC would give you a better chance at creating a better version of this article. Good luck. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 01:23, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the very useful info. Keep up the good work. Transformium (talk) 17:58, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Anthonie Palamedesz.
Hi Liz. The situation in the Anthonie Palamedesz. article is a little more complex than first appears, and you are not the only one who assumed (quite understandably) that the full stop at the end was a typo. However, as reliable sources indicate, his name does end with a full stop. Because we now have an open RfD which people, including myself, have commented on, it is not easy to sort this out. However, as the page mover, and the one who opened the RfD, you can resolve this quite quickly by reverting your page move, and withdrawing the RfD: Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_June_23. (Be aware, the most recent comment shows some frustration with your action, and your delay in responding to my earlier pings. I think the comment is out of order, though I understand the frustration that engendered the comment.) If you prefer, you could just indicate here that you agree that the RfD should be withdrawn, and I'll do the paper work. Regards. SilkTork (talk) 13:48, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, SilkTork,
 * I have withdrawn my RFD proposal and closed the discussion. I don't check my pings since it always looks like I have over 100 and I'd rather spend my time doing work than checking every time my username is mentioned. As for my talk page, I check it at the end of the day and respond to messages then.
 * There was an unexpected period at the end of a person's name. It seemed like a typo. I see mistakes like this occasionally and the pages are typically deleted at CSD as incorrect titles. It happens all of the time with category titles which seem to be misspelled frequently. I don't understand why a simple RFD proposal would elicit this kind of intense emotional reaction and backlash at the nominator. The discussion was obviously going to be closed at Keep on Thursday so I don't understand the urgency of all this and the bewildering claim that by initiating a discussion, I had caused "damage". At AFD, terrible comments are made about the subject of articles being proposed for deletion, that they are unimportant, that they are forgettable, that they are academics or athletes who had meaningless careers...this was a proposal about what I thought was a misplaced period! I didn't realize that this happens with some languages and proper names but the reaction to this RFD was completely over-the-top and I clearly hit a nerve that is bigger than my simple proposal. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 23:59, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I also do not know why I was singled out on this subject. Both Primefac and Praxidicae moved this article to a title without the period because they also thought it was a typo. I think insisting on having a period at the end of his name on the main article title will cause continued move-warring. Best to keep that page as a redirect. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 00:32, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I understand what you're saying Liz. However, as we name articles after what reliable sources say, then the article should be Anthonie Palamedesz. while Anthonie Palamedesz should be the redirect; the way to avoid future inappropriate page moves is to lock the page at that name, so only admins can move it. And, faced with a lock, admins will think twice before doing the move, realising that the name is not a typo as it first appears. Thanks for closing the RfD. I'll do the page move and lock. SilkTork (talk) 10:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Can you take a look at...?
Hello Liz. I hope you are having a good day. While I was patrolling Special:NewPages, I came across Draft:Notabot. The edit summary for when it was created contained racist material. I thought it would be an attack page, but it was a declined blank submission to AfC. I was wondering if there was anything you, as an administrator, can do about it, such as edit summary removal. Thanks. --<b style="font-family:Comic Sans MS; background-color: #f4b3ffff; color: #ba00dbff;">LPS and MLP Fan</b> (Littlest Pet Shop and My Little Pony Fan) 16:53, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, LPS and MLP Fan,
 * You are absolutely right, I have revision deleted that edit summary and warned the editor. Sorry it took me a while to get to this today. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 23:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Malacates, Mexico City
Hello, I just saw that you deleted an article I created for Malacates, Mexico City. While there is an article for Colonia Malacates Ampliación, this is actually a different neighborhood than Malacates. I am guessing the reason it was deleted is that it seemed a duplicate. Is there another reason?

Thanks! Matthew MatthewMMcM (talk) 18:24, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, MatthewMMcM,
 * Well, you are partially wrong and partially right. I did delete a page but it wasn't an article. It was a redirect and it was deleted because we don't allow redirects that point from main space to Draft space. The article that was at Malacates, Mexico City was moved to Draft:Malacates, Mexico City (by you, in fact) and I deleted the main space page that had a redirect from main space to a Draft space target. It looks like Draft:Malacates, Mexico City was then turned into another redirect pointing to Colonia Malacates Ampliación. If you want to continue to work on this draft, I believe you can undo the edit that changed it into a redirect if you believe you have content that would eventually be enough for a stand-alone article on this subject. But no article on this subject was ever deleted...it was just moved and later changed into a redirect page. You can find all of the content in the page history. I hope this explanation helps you understand what happened.
 * If you have further questions about article creation or redirects, please bring them to the Teahouse. Thank you. Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 18:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Raft of unreferenced/orphan human settlement articles
Hi Liz, I hope you are doing well. I have a somewhat odd question. I have been clearing out unreferenced articles and have noticed a number of 1-3 line pages of human settlements, a good number of which don't appear on Google Maps, even if the coordinates are listed, all created by user MIDI who seems have created literally hundreds of articles on Kenyan settlements, among other locations, using AWB. Some of these are substantial/notable and cited according but many have no indication of importance (importance for human settlements by virtue of being a human settlement) and some I cannot find proof that they even exist. I don't want to spam the good people of AFD but I think this is a serious issue to address, given the sheer volume and the amount of potentially inaccurate and erroneous information these articles may contain. As an admin, do you have any suggestions for a way of addressing these issues as a batch, or do I just keep chipping away one PROD tag at a time? Thanks for any help you can offer! Kazamzam (talk) 20:28, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hello, Kazamzam,
 * Sorry for the delay in replying to you. I have deleted quite a few PRODs about unincorporated settlements but I haven't done much work on evaluating the sources that verify them (or the lack of sources). We have several editors/admins who I consider pros in this subject but the only names that come to mind right now are Hog Farm and Mongoe. Maybe if they watch their pings, they can come over and offer you some guidance. I know Hog Farm has dealt with hundreds of poorly sourced geo articles before and PROD can be pretty effective as long as you don't tag them all on the same day! Please, no! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 20:34, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The one thing to watch here will be that coverage may not be easily findable on the internet - for African places in general sources often aren't digitized or aren't in English. But honestly, the ones I've tabbed through are mainly one-liners yanked from a database. (maybe GEOnet Names Server which is a problematic source for non-US places for a variety of reasons)  A note on Google maps - any descriptions found on there are often pulled from Wikipedia or similar sources.  Coordinates on there not matching may be a rounding/precision mistake (see Articles for deletion/Acodale, Virginia).  I'd say if you're reasonably confident that there's nothing significant for a certain location, just to PROD it, although I wouldn't do more than 4 or 5 or so a day to start with (I've done more than that at times but I've also done that sort of thing for USA places long enough I can get away with a little more).  Not necessary to bring a bunch to AFD unless the PRODs are contested or you're unsure on one; I do know of one case where a WP:AN discussion nuked a thousand or so but that was a very special case that also led to a desysopping. Hog Farm Talk 20:53, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for sharing your expertise, Hog Farm! Liz <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">Read! Talk! 20:56, 1 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I would check some of the coordinates given against GEONAMES; if they are the same, then it is likely they were created by scraping it, and that's not good. In some countries we have matched up census and geographic data. Unfortunately the Kenyan census site is at present being forwarded to some hacking site, so it's unusable.


 * The real question here is the amount of effort you should be putting into this. Having done this in two countries and a number of US states, my patience for looking at each and very article is wearing very thin. And my experience with GEONAMES and third world counties is especially poor. Finding sources beyond government databases for anything much short of a pretty large city or a regional capital has always been next to impossible. When I did Somalia the best we could do was look at GMaps to see if there was a sign of habitation there, which is a lot of work and dubious at that. My feeling is that if you find a lot of problems, we need to talk about deleting the lot en masse, as there doesn't seem to be much hope of verifying or expanding these articles as it stands. Mangoe (talk) 05:16, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Woof. I think the creator has, since this has been brought to his attention, gone through and redirected a lot of these stubs, which kind of helps but doesn't fully resolve the issue. Given the number of articles that were created simultaneously and the fact that they were done in alphabetical order, I assume this is from a scrapping of GEONAMES. I have already tried to cite/expand a few dozen myself but, yes, it's been a slog and my patience is not infinite. I'm open to waiting to see if/how the creator address them but this might become a larger issue of a mass deletion. Definitely feels out of my depth as a relatively new editor - thank you all so much for your advice and assistance! Kazamzam (talk) 19:26, 2 July 2022 (UTC)