User talk:Lizard the Wizard/corner

"Tell you what I'll do, Earle," Dr. Sutherland replied to the Eagle boss. "I'll trade you Dudley." Neale's eyes widened. His face lighted up. "Who do you want from me?" Neale asked, anxiously. "Steve Van Buren," Sutherland replied. But before he finished the second syllable of that name, Neale had fled the table. Lizard  (talk) 02:00, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That's a great story. 4 all-time greats there. Will take Jock of the four, though. Cake (talk) 07:53, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I think we could go ahead and merge Sutherland single-wing into the single wing page and not a soul would care. The page has remained virtually unchanged for a decade and it'd give us one less strategy article to deal with. And I just realized Greasy's paltry excuse for an article. Lizard  (talk) 09:05, 16 July 2016 (UTC)

Most prolific non-overtime game by any player in pro football history. I'm ashamed to say I didn't even realize it. I mention in his article that the all-purpose yards were a record at the time but I didn't realize he (kinda) still held it. 25 carries, 216 yards, 3 touchdowns. 5 receptions, 114 yards, 2 touchdowns. Throw in a couple kickoff returns for 43 more yards and that's a pretty good day I'd say. Shame he didn't complete that pass attempt, even though it wouldn't have counted toward the yards total. Lizard (talk) 22:30, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Unreal. Is this how you found your way to Campbell? Also, what about the double wing? Or sidelines and out of bounds? Cake (talk) 06:52, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Hewitt, Hutson, and Campbell were each kind of spontaneous. Mostly a result of catching my interest on Cbl's HOF article improvement campaign list. I wanna get Mean Joe Greene's page to B, but I have no idea how to write prose for a defensive player. A product of my dependency on stats as a guide. Lizard  (talk) 08:40, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Thanks to Van Buren, it looks like our paths have crossed at the front and back ends of someone's career. Lizard (talk) 00:54, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
 * The old South's greatest QB, and a notoriously poor student. Also, a big figure in Louisiana for going to Centenary. Reminiscent of Wade going to Duke. Cake (talk) 19:55, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Did you know the AP chose an all-time SEC team in 1950? Ends: Guards: Center: Backs: Lizard (talk) 00:18, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Don Hutson, Alabama
 * Gaynell Tinsley, LSU
 * Bruiser Kinard, Ole Miss
 * Dick Huffman, Tennessee
 * Bob Suffridge, Tennessee
 * Bill Healy, Georgia Tech
 * Carl Hinkle, Vanderbilt
 * Charley Trippi, Georgia
 * Frank Sinkwich, Georgia
 * Beattie Feathers, Tennessee
 * Steve Van Buren, LSU
 * I didn't. Hell of a backfield. Huffman a bit of a surprise at tackle. I think before the SEC a proper All-South team looks something like:
 * Ends
 * Lynn Bomar, Vanderbilt
 * Bob Blake, Vanderbilt
 * Tackles
 * Josh Cody, Vanderbilt
 * Bill Fincher, Georgia Tech
 * Guards
 * Henry D. Phillips, Sewanee
 * Herman Hickman, Tennessee
 * Centers
 * Bum Day, Georgia
 * Quarterbacks
 * Bo McMillin, Centre
 * Halfbacks
 * Everett Strupper, Georgia Tech
 * Buck Flowers, Georgia Tech
 * Fullbacks
 * Moon Ducote, Auburn
 * Can add Ray Morrison if I am allowed a return specialist. Hard decision between Day, Weaver and Stone. If I just pick 4 RBs instead make it Strupper, Flowers, Guyon, and Craig. Cake (talk) 05:28, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * "Stein" Stone, the original Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. I'm interested about that Bill Healy, that the AP found he was one of the best players during the first 17 years of the SEC but we don't have an article on him. I figure you'd at least heard of him. Here is the AP's list. Lizard  (talk) 19:15, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like Van Buren was a heck of a coach too. Coached several minor league football teams. From what I've gathered, he had a 27–5 record in 2 seasons with the "Franklin Miners" in 1959–60. Then he won an Atlantic Coast Football League championship as head coach of the "Paterson Miners" in 1962. Then he coached the Newark Bears to an 11–1 record in 1963 and won another ACFL championship and a 12–1 record in 1964 but lost that year's championship to the Boston Sweepers. Then he coached one "Hudson Valley Vikings" (unrelated to Hudson Valley Community College Vikings...I think) in 1967 in the "North Atlantic Football League" to an undefeated record "at the halfway point in league play." And that's all I can get from google newspapers. Lizard  (talk) 19:12, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There are several Georgia Tech players left out on wikipedia. Bob Ison is one who I've added in the middle ages of 1930-1950. Bill Jordan and Bill Healy are others left out. Jordan was their great end coaching the ends, and Healy was a monster. Stone was great. He looks fierce at left guard in the 1904 picture. Lots of nice records for Van Buren - can't say I had ever heard of the Boston Sweepers. Cake (talk) 12:29, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Give me a good reason not to blank the entire trash heap of an article that is History of American football positions. I'm in the camp that believes no content is better than unsourced content. And it's not just unsourced, it's painfully un-encyclopedic in tone and structure. It's remained virtually unchanged since it was created over a decade ago, as if to preserve some remnant of what we used to let fly on Wikipedia. Lizard (talk) 00:47, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * To answer the question: the history of american football already had to be split between early and modern periods, such that this article will probably be needed in future anyway, and its style of diagrams (perhaps only that, the diagrams themselves are not very good) are some of the best. That said, I am sympathetic with your camp. Cake (talk) 01:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
 * No doubt the article is needed. Getting that article to a respectable state would go a long way in clearing up some common misconceptions about positions. I didn't mean to delete it entirely, but just to remove the eyesore that is the terrible Michio-Kaku-presenting-theorems-on-Discovery-Channel style prose. Maybe strip it down to a few sentences describing each diagram until we can go into details. Lizard  (talk) 03:59, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

We didn't have an article on John Giannantonio, the most ridiculous high school player in history. Lizard (talk) 01:20, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Amazing stuff. Eat your heart out Al Bundy. Cake (talk) 20:44, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * I read that his yards total for the Mountain Lakes game only included touchdown runs and a few long gains, because that's all they could find in contemporary papers. Who knows how many 3–10 yard frolics were unaccounted for. If only he had played in Texas like Ken Hall. Looks like Hall and Cannon played together win the Oilers. Lizard  (talk) 21:08, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That's often the issue with old stats. We don't have any of the "3–10 yard frolics" from the 1917 Auburn game in Everett Strupper's totals, for instance. I just learned of Z. J. Stanley. He and Rockne were the two best ends in Indiana. Cake (talk) 15:14, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

I think I'll get Cannon's article peer reviewed to see how far it is from FA. I used Otto Graham's as a model from the start, and the smooth GA review (by a guy who obviously knows what he's doing) seemed promising. But being as it was my earliest full-scale project I'm sure there's a lot I can improve upon it. I didn't even know Google newspaper archives existed until I was pretty much finished. Lizard (talk) 23:21, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
 * That will be interesting. I've not been bold enough to try an FA. Jim Thorpe was the one I knew in our parts of wikipedia. Wish I knew enough about Guyon to make his half as good. Just saw this. Cake (talk) 14:45, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeh, shame about John David Crow. It'll be tough to get his vote. What do you think of Fournette's chances? It's crazy to think he'll probably be an underdog behind McCaffrey and Deshaun Watson, but it's hard to argue with it. McCaffrey was straight up robbed last season. Then there's Baker Mayfield, Dalvin Cook, Nick Chubb. The field is loaded this year for sure. Lizard  (talk) 14:57, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Especially at RB. Jalen Hurd should have a big year too. I would be surprised if anybody but McCaffrey or Fournette won it, though. Josh Rosen is another dark horse candidate. Cake (talk) 15:15, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Russ Cohen was kept off the All-Southern team in 1914 for being only 155 pounds. Cake (talk) 18:50, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Funny, I'm about 155 pounds and that's considered overweight for my height (5' 7"). Thanks for cleaning up Herschel Walker. There's probably a lot more that could be cut. On a quick look through I noticed some original research and whatnot. Granted, the man was a 3-time consensus All-American, but no one's college career is worth a wall of text for each season. Lizard  (talk) 03:48, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Bummer about Kershaw. Whoever wins the Cy Young this season should be tried for theft. Lizard (talk) 02:37, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Lots of little warriors in the old days. "Used mostly as a substitute, this 135-pound man accumulated a broken arm, four ribs torn from his spinal column, a broken collarbone and a broken shoulder blade" describes Grantland Rice's time on the gridiron. I got the QB rather the center genes from those days, and would probably look like Chigger Browne out there. Trying my best on Herschel. As you noted, the writer did a fine job if it was the season article. Here is hoping one of the Cubbies pitchers can get the theft. At least the batter didn't fall down. Cake (talk) 16:28, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Check out my comment on the talk page of Joe Paterno. Normally I wouldn't touch an article like that with a 10 foot pole, but clearly there's been some smearing. If this was a WP:BLP it'd get skewered, and I'm sure JoePa is turning in his grave. Read the prose in the Coaching history section. I'm sorry, I was under the initial impression that this guy coached 44 years and went to a bowl in 37 of them, won 409 games, 2 national championships, dozens of coach of the year awards, graduated nearly every player who played for him, and was one of the most beloved figures in the history of any sport. Instead he was just a guy who got into tirades, made light of sexual assault, had road rage, couldn't keep his players out of jail cells, and fans wanted him to step down multiple times. "My name, I have spent my whole life trying to make that name mean something. And now it's gone." Lizard (talk) 23:24, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Woah, this whole time I thought Tittle played his first few seasons with the Baltimore Colts, but it was a completely different franchise from the AAFC. Lizard  (talk) 15:43, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd have made the same mistake. There's some connection between the Miami Seahawks and southern football. E. g. Doug Wycoff and Hank Crisp. Cake (talk) 23:56, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Watching these Olympic rugby matches. Went in with the mindset that it was just football without pads and I'm royally confused. What determines when it's time to toss the ball after being tackled? I'm sure there's some rule that's not immediately obvious. And I just saw a player literally lift his teammate into the air to catch what we'd call a kickoff. Lizard (talk) 18:14, 11 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Probably not his best prediction. Lizard  (talk) 01:37, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, what do you reckon this facemask is made of? Hard plastic? I've never seen anything like it. Lizard  (talk) 15:09, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Not one to answer the rugby questions. Maybe this? On the helmet, the handle is funny too. It is plexiglas. Otto Graham wore those too. Cake (talk) 17:55, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Bruh. All is good, he's been found. Lizard  (talk) 22:56, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Tittle coined alley-oop as a sports term. I've never done one of those DYKs but this one may be too good to pass up. Note its first usage in basketball directly references its usage by the 49ers. Lizard (talk) 02:43, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Also the UPI ref on 1946 All-SEC football team is dead and an archived version isn't available. If you could be a pal.. Lizard  (talk) 03:04, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed. An electric attack with UPI's backfield having passers in Tittle, Conerly, and Gilmer, and the workhorse RB with Trippi. Seems like I've read that about the 'alley oop' somewhere, and is worth a DYK IMO. Much fun to see your work get to the main page. Makes me like Tebow's jump pass that much more. Can't say I'd have imagined Tittle doing it with the fugly helmet. Dig the bright green of his Colts helmet. Cake (talk) 12:21, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Any thoughts on the Duchy of Merania? I stumbled upon that page out of curiosity while traversing Category:Wikipedia suspected hoax articles. Nobility is Greek to me, but there's definitely something strange about that article. See the talk page. Lizard (talk) 04:21, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Some German outpost on the coast in Croatia perhaps? Berthold, Duke of Merania leaves an impressive list of descendants. Cake (talk) 06:22, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I have to wonder how far down the rabbit hole goes. Lizard  (talk) 06:28, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

"He was famous during his 17-year career -- as a backup with the Colts, as a star with the 49ers and as a legend with the Giants -- for not only playing through pain but for retaining a wit in the face of crushing losses." -Awakening the Giant. I love this quote but "backup with the Colts" just ruins it. He was unanimous AAFC Rookie of the Year and was the starter all 3 seasons he was there. Although it looks like Adrian Burk took some time away in 1950, I'm not sure why. Nevertheless he was primarily a starter with the Colts. Shame on you ESPN. Lizard (talk) 07:20, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Who will remember the green, other Colts? An ellipsis might be your friend with the quote. Hutson's article might benefit from a diagram of a chair route. Cake (talk) 23:29, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Luckily, Bowman had a 1950 Colts card made for him in all its green glory. I plan on sticking it in somewhere, since Bowman cards are public domain. Lizard  (talk) 23:42, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * A bit pricey. This thing is neat too. What little I know of Bill Spears as a passer is his ability to avoid the interception, supposedly. Cake (talk) 00:17, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It only just occurred to me how old Tittle is when I realized Ken Kavanaugh also has a 1950 Bowman card. I'll be honest I kind of feel a sense of urgency working on his page that I haven't felt for anyone else's. But then again the only other living players I've worked on are Cannon and Earl Campbell. Tittle has been bald for longer than Campbell has been alive. Lizard  (talk) 00:56, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think this is the only image of Tittle I know of where he has hair. Lots of greats with a similar fate. Lynn Bomar had a great head of blonde hair and was balding by the time he was with the Giants. As I mentioned Spears, his checkdown Jimmy Armistead must have been born balding. For Kavanaugh, this is a better card. Did LSU ever actually look like that, or did they just put LSU colors on his Bears uniform? Cake (talk) 18:12, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Take it with a grain of salt, but with the Louisiana and baseball interest I'd like to see what you could do for Ted Breitenstein. The South's best lefty for a time. Cake (talk) 23:34, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Mel Ott and Skip Bertman are on my ideal to-do list. But mainly Bertman, the greatest modern college baseball coach and it's not even close. Lizard  (talk) 23:50, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I can certainly understand why. Spurrier in the 90s but with baseball. Let nobody forget Cotton Knaupp. Been trying to improve Carl Sitton. Cake (talk) 00:05, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Just had a great idea for a good topic: San Francisco's Million Dollar Backfield. Tittle is a definite GA eventually, and I decided to pick of McElhenny in the future. Might as well do the other 2. The only wrench in that plan is that "Million Dollar Backfield" also refers to the '47 Cardinals. It looks like the 49ers backfield is more well-known, but I'm still not sure how I'd go about it. The 49ers backfield would definitely be notable enough to stand on its own but I'm not sure about the Cardinals one. Maybe a hatnote saying something like "for the Chicago Cardinals backfield of the same name, see 1947 Chicago Cardinals season" would suffice. Lizard (talk) 01:24, 23 August 2016 (UTC) On Hutson and the Bear's escapades: They had what we'd call today a bromance, truly sitcom worthy. I remember reading in the book that I cited for their laundromat episode, the week after Bama played Southern Cal, they were tasked with cleaning the uniforms. The finished product resembled "doll clothes." The coach had to bail them out by buying new uniforms, and they eventually sold the laundromat without ever making a dime. Hutson was a lot more successful as a solo businessman, though. His "Packer Playdium" was apparently a spectacle. Lizard (talk) 07:03, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Do you mean Stanford? I don't think they played USC. Funny stuff though. Hope it wasn't those slick, white friction stripe uniforms. I would feel in the Twilight Zone seeing Bryant hitchhiking. You think with Hutson's business interest Vandy would have gone after him. My grandfather's sister was one to like a drink and football and she told me Charley Trippi was the greatest she ever saw.  Cake (talk) 20:33, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, I can respect if it's too long ago to pique your interest, but would appreciate you looking over the 1908 LSU football article. A great sports year really. Got the Cubbies, Auburn and LSU football, the "greatest game played in Dixie" between Nashville and New Orleans. I wish Fenton and Dummy Taylor could have played each other for the barrage of field goals. Cake (talk) 20:45, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I can look over it sometime and see if there's anything in the Vault that can be added. Check out the edit history on Charley Trippi. Gotta love paranoid family members. Take care in editing that page, lest you want SWAT to come blasting through your door. Lizard  (talk) 21:09, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

I was beginning to worry my article on Tittle was getting a little lengthy, but then I saw Joe Montana's French Wikipedia page. Lizard (talk) 17:16, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Trippi's history had me laughing out loud. What a great shot of the Catch. Cake (talk) 00:38, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The 1971 Pro Hall of Fame class could hold a candle to any, I'd say. Lizard  (talk) 02:36, 27 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Also, throwing this out there, front seven redirects to glossary of American football, but isn't even on the page. Lizard  (talk) 04:13, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Thought you might appreciate the call-out to Fenton. Although I'm fairly certain LSU doesn't have a ring of honor, as "Peauxboy21" confirms later down the thread. Something I don't often think about is how much it probably means to the "old farts" when we give these players their due through Wikipedia. Sadly it's usually nothing compared to seeing them play live. Like you said about your grandfather's sister on Trippi, or how my uncle can't put into words how good Casanova really was. Lizard (talk) 01:44, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
 * It's finally here. Football season. I expect nothing but chaos on player pages. Lizard  (talk) 20:08, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Tennessee having some issues with Appalachian State. Someone should let the Vols know about 2007 Michigan. Lizard  (talk) 00:29, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I got a kick out of Category:Honduran players of American football. The Van Burens have all but cornered the market. Lizard  (talk) 06:18, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Long running joke for Gators that Tennessee and Georgia win the preseason every year. Tough loss for Vandy. I do like seeing Fenton remembered. Encoding the memories of the old farts is something like my goal. No doubt it's amazing in the rare instances where we have video. Wish I had a good library of radio broadcasts. Been doing a lot of work with old jerseys; these exist (don't take it as gospel) for all the recent national champions aside from LSU. Apparently the uniform is pretty unchanged since Dietzel. Curious what they looked like before ww2. As for Trippi, her father and brothers would have all despised UGA, so Butts and Trippi must have been something.  Cake (talk) 06:52, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Bill Hewitt had the longest run in the NFL in 1932 at 29 yards. Hmm... Guess stats are lacking for that year. Especially when you consider Red Grange was in the league at the time and Nagurski was in his prime. Lizard (talk) 04:12, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think the same happens with college around that time. Did you forget who handed the ball to Grange or Nagurski?
 * It never did occur to me that Grange and Nagurski played together. And then with that legendary defense. How did the Bears ever lose any games in the early-to-mid 30s? Oh, right. Lizard  (talk) 06:44, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Hewitt, Grange, Nagurski, and Brumbaugh. Gotta love six ties. Cake (talk) 07:34, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Shame about Bridgewater. He's gonna be a stud in a few years, hopefully this doesn't set him back permanently. The Vikes have been starving for a QB since Culpepper, and people forget how good Culpepper was. Lizard (talk) 16:51, 3 September 2016 (UTC)
 * To everyone that threw a pity party for Les Miles last year and prevented his firing, I raise you 7 yards of total offense at halftime against Wisonsin. This coming after an entire off-season to soak in the fact that his job rested in his ability to come into the season with a new and improved offense. And wow, who woulda thunk. The worst offensive half in the Les Miles era. Others may have been optimistic, but I've seen this sputtering offense for 10 years. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Lizard  (talk) 00:54, 4 September 2016 (UTC)]
 * Sconnie ain't bad and your QB still seemed the issue to me. In no place to talk after Florida's play. I don't see a Sparky Wade article here. Cake (talk) 13:22, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Well, after a whole off-season of hearing "this is the year," and seeing them come out flat like that. This was the year we finally beat Bama and made the playoffs. Imagine how LSU fans feel waking up and seeing that Bama completely dismantled USC. Just forfeit the Bama game now, save us the humiliation this year. . Lizard  (talk) 16:12, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

It just took me a full minute trying to figure out how your edit of Talk:Jared Allen showed up twice on my watchlist. 60 seconds of my wasted life later, I realized one was Larry Allen. Do you think Jared gets into the Hall on the first ballot? Lizard (talk) 07:33, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
 * He probably should, but I'd bet against it. Eat your heart out, Brett Favre. Cake (talk) 08:01, 5 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Who knew he was a triple threat. Lizard  (talk) 17:59, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

If you ever need some encouragement (or discouragement, depending on how you look at it), just remember one guy brought every governor of Kentucky to GA, and half to FA. Lizard (talk) 06:24, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Also I'm not sure you noticed, but a vandal removed a chunk of C6H0 about a year ago and that edit was never reverted. Lizard  (talk) 06:46, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I didn't notice. Nice catch. I sent an email to some Texas A&M staff about Charley Moran but never did get a response. Perhaps I should try the Vols next. The HOF doesn't take suggestions from the hoi polloi. Fun to read some of those articles. Several Kentucky politicians overlap with my interests. Edwin P. Morrow wished he was Bo McMillin, and Happy Chandler was a hell of an athlete at Transy. Earle C. Clements played for UK, and John Sherman Cooper played for Centre. Since you mentioned Nagurski and the days of fullbacks, you might be interested in Ted Coy, the original great high-knee fullback. Cake (talk) 15:40, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for introducing hoi polloi to my vocabulary. Happy Chandler was how I made my way to C6H0. He was apparently a collaborator on the inside for Moran. And back to present day, check out my alma mater going toe-to-toe with Georgia at halftime. Lizard  (talk) 17:20, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I just saw it was happening when they took the lead. It helps to be named Colonels. Transy has a history. UF plays a half a game in 1905 when they realize the other team has Hogan Yancey. Cake (talk) 18:14, 10 September 2016 (UTC) Cake (talk) 18:14, 10 September 2016 (UTC)
 * After Moran, the biggest oversights for the hall of fame include Charlie Brickley and Bob Blake. Cake (talk) 15:32, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Happy as I am that another LSU player is getting in, I can't see how Bert Jones is getting the nod. Sure I've heard all about his exploits, but he just seems like he was a solid quarterback and nothing much more. Tommy Hodson rewrote the SEC record books and I'm not sure I'd even put him in. I guess Jones was one who transcended stats. Lizard (talk) 06:54, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I plead ignorance but also never quite got Jones's status as a legend. Others seem possibly greater. I like his threads though. Guess it's cool for a Ruston guy to go to LSU instead of Tech. I imagine they try to induct living people, but there are enough dead guys with living family who have been forgotten to despise when Hall's have that rule. Brickley was a lethal drop kicker. Bob Blake is as important to the forward pass in the south as Heisman. Cake (talk) 13:15, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

It's funny how you can never really gauge how much there is to write about a guy until you start writing. Tony Canadeo gave me fits trying to scrape out details, but Hugh McElhenny is a goldmine. The man took a pay cut when he entered the NFL out of UW. Lizard (talk) 16:17, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The Bears plaque is great. Sounds like Red Grange with his return game. My baby here is close to looking nice. A source for Arkansas, Rhode Island, and Alaska and I can start going over it with a finer comb. Cake (talk) 22:11, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Might I suggest that you add in a "State" column to the front. Only natural since that's the topic of the article. Lizard  (talk) 22:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Homer Woodson Hargiss seems like another snub. Does the CFBHOF not have some sort of veteran's committee? Lizard (talk) 16:35, 14 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The huddle has a really muddled history. Gallaudet will tell you Paul D. Hubbard invented it. Passing in 1910 is a pretty good one. Good catch. Blake's passing in 1907. With Tigert in the Hall, they must, and the site notes "Those players that do not comply with the 50-year rule [For example, to be eligible for the 2017 ballot, the player must have played his last year in 1967 or thereafter.] may still be eligible for consideration by the FBS and Divisional Veterans Committees, which examine unique cases." I think you have to get an AD or some big shot to recommend it to them, though. PS so many of these.
 * We can thank user:packerfansam for most of those infobox-less articles. Seems in 2010 he took it upon himself to create an article for every Packers player ever, but neglected infoboxes. Lizard  (talk) 01:25, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Are Vikings-Bears and Vikings-Lions legitimate rivalries? I'd imagine so, since it's a fair assessment to say every team in the NFC North hates each other. Asking in context to the recent discussion on WT:NFL. Lizard  (talk) 03:46, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I noticed that every divisional matchup gets labeled a 'rivalry'. Packers-Bears and Vikes-Packers are definitely rivalries, so one could argue Vikes-Bears as a result. Kind of goes one way - the Vikes relish winning on Soldier Field. Lions are harder to argue, but I imagine saying something similar. Hurt by both teams sucking for some years, and I could imagine it getting deleted, but there are some others which should go first. It's certainly a bigger rivalry than Carolina-Atlanta; was a brawl in the 60s. A better rivalry than Pack-Lions IMO. Cake (talk) 19:22, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Harris was the starter over a philosophy major? Miles should have called me. Looks like we both need Purdue QBs to perform this week. Fingers crossed for no Purdue Wreck jokes later. Cake (talk) 22:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone expected Harris to regress, much less fail to show any progress. And the word on the street was that if we put Etling in, we'd be begging to have Harris back. Doesn't seem that way so far. From what I've seen, Etling's field awareness and decision making are both years ahead of Harris. Harris has more raw talent but the fans were tired of waiting for it to mature into something more than a critical panic interception right into the hands of a Wisconsin defender, down by 2 and in field goal range. Lizard  (talk) 23:32, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh and be ready for a GT upset over Clemson tonight. Lizard  (talk) 23:33, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Convenience
Let's ignore my above prediction. Paul Giel seems to be a forgotten gem. Lizard (talk) 20:08, 23 September 2016 (UTC) Tittle's 36 touchdown passes in '63 is still a Giants franchise record. It baffles me that Phil Simms or Eli never hit that mark. Eli had 35 last season, which knocked Tittle's 33 in '62 out of second place. Lizard (talk) 00:36, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
 * John Henry Johnson all but ended Charley Trippi's career. Literally smashed his face with a tackle in the 1955 preseason and Trippi never played another down on offense. Also, gotta love the appropriateness of a guy named John Henry playing fullback for the Steelers. Sportswriters had a field day with that. Lizard  (talk) 07:45, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Didn't know that, or that Trippi played at Ponce de Leon Park. High praise from Bobby Layne. Had to upload his trading card with that retina-burning blue. Don't forget to mention why Johnson went from Louisiana to California. Wonder if there was a reason for his power at LHB and (what seems like) McElhenny's speed at RHB. Cake (talk) 13:53, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I read somewhere that specifically stated he only played HB with SF because Perry was the fullback. Although he was also a HB at Arizona State and apparently a damn good punt returner. Lizard  (talk) 14:09, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Dutch Clark was always a mysterious figure. I had to create the Colorado College Tigers football page. Cake (talk) 15:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Clark could use some love for the HOF improvement campaign wink nudge. Lizard  (talk) 18:11, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Why I brought him up. I tried to expand Ed Healey. 1925's only unanimous All-Pro. Cake (talk) 19:08, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Frank Godchaux, Sr. played left field behind Grantland Rice on the 1901 Vandy team, and broke his leg against Texas. Son got revenge in 21. Cake (talk) 01:38, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Got "Pop" up to a GA. Wish there was someone to help Heisman along. Cake (talk) 02:33, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm surprised you were allowed to keep all those fair use images. I thought for sure you'd have to take some out. I'm usually conservative with fair use images for that reason. I think I've only ever uploaded 2. Joe Perry is the last Million Dollar Backfield member to do, but as usual I'm procrastinating. Starting is always the toughest part. Lizard  (talk) 03:06, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

Think I might expand the 1997 LSU article. Featured LSU's first ever victory against a No. 1 team. And thus began the friendliest rivalry in the SEC. Lizard  (talk) 21:39, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Sounds cool. Then you will know a bit what it feels like to a do a 1920s Gator article. Give me Taylor and Faulk in an All-90s SEC backfield. Cake (talk) 06:57, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * If LSU ever retires a third jersey, it should be Faulk's. The guy was a workhorse for 4 seasons, and then did the same for the Patriots for about 30 years. Incredible durability. Lizard  (talk) 08:13, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Spurrier's lead could use some trimming I think. I know he's had a legendary career but his lead dwarfs Charlemagne's and Alexander the Great's, and even gives Napoleon a run for his money. Lizard (talk) 18:07, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Lots of good stuff there, but I tried. Spurrier wouldn't like no mention of Ray Graves. PS Charles Martel gets the best nickname this side of the Fun n Gun. Cake (talk) 19:06, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, The Hammer. Reminds me of my professor last year, pitying Lothair for being the only one of Louis the Pious' sons who never earned a nickname—the real reason for the fall of the Frankish empire. Lizard  (talk) 19:45, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Brilliant. Judging by the picture, something like Lothair the Octopus would have worked. Cake (talk) 20:32, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Looks like Mike VI won't make it much longer. He's got multiple tumors now. I don't think he's done the traditional pre-game parade around the stadium in the past 2 seasons. It was a good run. The poetic type would find a way to link it to a certain other recent departure. Lizard (talk) 03:09, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * =( Didn't realize the Civil War connection. Cake (talk) 05:50, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yep, some author of a book on the Louisiana Tigers copied entire chapters from it wholesale into that article. Check out this version from 4 years ago, clocking in at nearly 200,000 bytes. Lizard  (talk) 21:53, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * One of my ancestors deserted at Petersburg after he was hit in three places with bullets and shrapnel, taking one of his eyes. The book "A Small But Spartan Band" is great on Floridians in the Virginia campaign. Lots of Flournoys in Louisiana, see Peggy Flournoy and J. Howell Flournoy. I think they might all be related to Samuel Lightfoot Flournoy. Given Thomas' interaction with Stonewall, should mention the Stonewall Brigade Band. Cake (talk) 11:27, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Steel Curtain got the best of the People Eaters in Super Bowl IX. 17 rushing yards for the Vikings, only 119 total yards. Steelers had a big Italian guy toting the rock for 158. Lizard (talk) 15:25, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Played pretty bad in all of our super bowls. Perhaps closest in Super Bowl XI. Had the best chance in '75 when they got robbed with the Hail Mary. Recently found my Vikes '78 media guide. Also, apt that the Cubbies have to get by Kershaw to break the curse. Cake (talk) 22:09, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
 * George McAfee went from playing with the Monsters of the Midway to Midway Atoll. Apparently his death caused a shake up in the world of assisted living. And it looks like Cleveland is gonna be spoiled this year. Well, they have the Browns to make up for it. Lizard  (talk) 18:06, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

I think the Tittle photo could be worth its own article. But since it was never published in print it was never given a title. Although I have seen it referred to as "Fallen Giant" a few times. Lizard (talk) 03:55, 4 November 2016 (UTC)  Check it out. A Sports Illustrated writer copied a section of the lead from Y.A. Tittle nearly verbatim for a piece on his birthday. That's awesome honestly. Stuff like this is why I contribute. Lizard (talk) 04:10, 4 November 2016 (UTC) Have you ever taken a gander at Hugh Green's Pitt career? Not sure how accurate those stats are (24 forced fumbles??), but three consensus All-Americas and darn near swept every national award as a senior. Lizard (talk) 19:07, 12 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Can't seem to get the Tittle link, but I can imagine what you mean. Had a similar feeling when I saw this. Can't say I knew of Green either. Dig the old Pitt uniforms. Cake (talk) 16:47, 16 November 2016 (UTC)

It's that time of the year. Lizard (talk) 17:22, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Just when you thought you've seen it all, here's Fred Biletnikoff with Raiders fan James Hetfield. Lizard  (talk) 19:42, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Seems Biletnikoff played a big part in the Noles' first ever win over the Gators. I hadn't realized Florida State's football program was so young. Lizard  (talk) 01:01, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Take a read of this. It's a long read, but this is when football was football. One of Tittle's worst games, and the one that defined Jim Taylor's career. Lizard (talk) 02:14, 15 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Taylor has the look of a mean lead blocker despite the numbers. How about Adderley and Symank on the corners too? Cake (talk) 18:07, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 * And yes, FSU as we know it started football in the 40s. It was a girl's school since the early 1900s until then. Their oldest teams were purple and gold. Cake (talk) 18:10, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Great image on Dutch Sternaman's article. His brother seems like the Big Ten's version of Chigger Browne or Tick Tichenor. Cake (talk) 22:11, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Always thought Lester Lautenschlaeger got in the HOF surprisingly early. Cake (talk) 00:12, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

The guy doing the GA review for Jim Taylor is skewering it. I understand that not everyone reading the article will be fluent in football speak, but it's never crossed my mind that someone could wonder if "led the SEC in scoring twice" meant two seasons or two games. I'm not sure if he's playing the role of an ignorant reader or if he's actually ignorant. Guess I'll have to assume the latter. Lizard (talk) 01:39, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Those concerns bleeding out from biographies is the main reason I've found myself adding football terms and concepts. That said, the clause is a bit ambiguous, or at least "led the conference in scoring for two seasons" seems less so.Cake (talk)
 * How do you feel about assisting with Tulane? You know your Picayune and it's one method to learn about old LSU days aside from Fenton. Then again, it might be like asking my expertise on the Noles in the 90s. Cake  (talk) 14:16, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Jerry Dalrymple looks like he'd be interesting, especially after seeing the claims that he would've won the 1931 Heisman. Lizard  (talk) 18:12, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * And the Green Wave was a powerhouse during his time there, it seems. Lizard  (talk) 18:20, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Bill Banker and Don Zimmerman help. Cake  (talk) 18:28, 8 January 2017 (UTC)[
 * Here's Huey Cake  (talk) 08:21, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Is Saban the greatest college coach ever if Alabama wins this game? I say so. Six national championships in this era, and playing in the toughest conference every year. I'd say there would be no more argument for anyone else. Lizard (talk) 01:48, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't have put Saban above Rockne or Warner, but he would have had an argument against Leahy and Bryant IMO. Check out the 1907 LSU article. If you can find me a few sources it can be at least a C class one day. Cake  (talk) 20:59, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I thought that was McGugin next to Long. He didn't live long after that. See this. Cake  (talk) 21:09, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Neither of them did. Long's famous last words on his death bed were "please lord don't let me die, I have so much to do." But I say that's baloney. He died cursing Tulane for beating LSU the previous year. If only he could've lasted about 3 more months. Lizard  (talk) 21:22, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Definitely. The 1932 and 1935 teams could use a treatment. I notice Long and "Big" Stovall are both from winn parish. Cake  (talk) 03:11, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Long's article says surprisingly little about his love for LSU football. His appointment of Mickal to the Louisiana Senate caused a media frenzy. Maybe I'll amend that once I'm done getting every player on the NFL 75th Anniversary All-Time Team to GA. Only 44 to go! Lizard  (talk) 03:22, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
 * An ambitious goal. Pete Henry could use work, and surprised to see Pihos on there. Bo McMillin would be proud. Cake  (talk) 12:32, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Are you gonna retry getting Pop's article to featured in the future? Those FA reviewers are stringent as hell. I had read it all the way through before the review got picked up and I couldn't find anything that immediately stood out. I think I'll try for Cannon soon, and/or maybe Tittle or Van Buren, the latter of which's GA reviewer Wizardman said he'd probably endorse. He's basically Wikipedia royalty. Lizard (talk) 19:17, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Funny. Was just reading what Fuzzy Woodruff had to say abut his time at Georgia, including salaries and such. Rybkovich wanted to try the FA. I've still never tried for FA. Won't mind trying to help a further nomination though. This image is most fascinating. Van Buren's got a nicely structured article. Cake  (talk) 01:02, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It was easy to structure because his career had clear "eras." Normally when a player only plays for one team I'll end up with a big wall of text because there aren't any appropriate ways to section it. Lizard  (talk) 01:11, 18 January 2017 (UTC)
 * RIP Edwin Pope. Might gave been Florida's greatest college football historian. Cake  (talk) 23:00, 20 January 2017 (UTC)

Kavanaugh's efficiency always amazes me. 50 touchdowns on 162 receptions. He was the original Cris "All He Does Is Catch Touchdowns" Carter. Lizard (talk) 05:40, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * He and Hutson at ends would indeed make one hell of an All-SEC team. Still very curious to know how or if he's related to William Marmaduke Kavanaugh. The closest thing the South had to a baseball commish. Cake  (talk) 12:52, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Neat. Cake  (talk) 17:24, 28 January 2017 (UTC)