User talk:Ljbird92

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
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Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, or on the [ reviewer's talk page] . Please remember to link to the submission!
 * You can also get | live chat help from experienced editors.
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Northamerica1000(talk) 14:43, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, or on the [ reviewer's talk page] . Please remember to link to the submission!
 * You can also get live chat help from experienced editors.
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Sionk (talk) 18:28, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

To clarify my decision, the vast majority of the 'History' section of your draft article seems to be about the trade unions in Melbourne. I can't see how that has a direct bearing on the two Queensland branches. If 'The Services Union' is the umbrella name of two union branches in Queensland, then I would advice you to stick to describing those. The sections of your article that specifically describe The Services Union seem to be sourced to the TSU/ASU websites, which are primary sources. As the previous reviewer advised, we need to see evidence of significant coverage in reliable independent sources as proof that the subject is widely known and suitable for Wikipedia. Maybe the recent major campaings have been covered in the Queensland press?

(if you need tto discuss the article further, it probably makes more sense to do so here, on your Talk page rather than mine)

Hope that helps! Sionk (talk) 02:15, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Thank-you for your feedback. I have done some editing to help further clarify the history of The Services Union.

The Services Union IS NOT THE UMBRELLA NAME of two branches in QLD

I will further clarify to reviewers about the organisation of the ASU.

The ASU is the National Body. The Services Union, whose official name is Queensland Services Union- is one of two Queensland Branches of the ASU .Although they both come under the one national umbrella of the ASU-they are total seperate entities, with a different membership and Secretaries. Politically also they are not the same. So to talk about what is known as the Together Union (the other QLD ASU Branch) would not be suitable on this particular page I am trying to get approved. Together has its own Wiki submission-which I might add does not have many references at all-but has been approved by Wiki.

So to further explain: The ASU is the national body (this office is based in Victoria). Then there are many State Based Branches that come under the ASU umbrella. However, all branches operate on a daily basis as totally seperate entities (they all are registered as their own seperate legal entities with seperate Australian Buisness Numbers and Trade Names). Financially they are also independent of each other) and they also operate on a daily basis from the National Office. However they all may come together if there happens to be a national campaign. But generally issues and work are State based.

To understand how The Services Union came about as the entity that exists today, you have to understand the history of the amalgamations of all the unions I have written about under the History section. These unions amalgamated federally and subsequently the QSU ( The Services Union) amalgamated with those unions state branches, to create this current union. I have tried to make this a little clearer in this section.

Perhaps it is easier for me to submit a very short page on The Services Union (like the Together page) instead of trying to give readers a sense of how this union came to what it is today? I would have thought a more comprehensive and historical perspective would be more appropriate for Wiki. Could you please advise if writing a far simplier piece, or perhaps even deleting the whole history section is wise? - or as asked for in my previous talk, could you clarify for me why some pages, with no or hardly any referencing get approved by reviewers.

I would also like to point out that the campaigns I have outlined on this page have all got newspaper articles as references - including newspapers based in Queensland. The Australian newspaper is Australia's National Newspaper and held in high esteem as a resource in this country. I have looked at like pages on Wiki and at least one newspaper article as a reference seems to be okay. I have used three in one instance.

I look forward to further feedback and answers. I am hopeful my page will be approved with this further clarification.

Thanks for your efforts and time.

I look forward to your response.

(Ljbird92 (talk) 13:07, 13 November 2012 (UTC)).


 * Thanks. Your explanation is beginning to make the whole thing clearer! I think your article would be better served if it concentrated on the description of The Services Union and its achievements. It is quite okay to give a bit of context, but a detailed history of the ASU would be better placed in the article about the Australian Services Union. Again, the challenge for any author of an article for Wikipedia is to show that the subject is widely known and important, of 'notable' as we call it. You'll need to find some secondary news or book sources that talk about TSU. Sionk (talk) 20:47, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for your feedback.

I have omitted the history-as seeing other like Queensland Union pages-they have not have this.

I have focused on the work of the Services Union now and I have refenced with many examples from secondary sources, the QIRC, newspapers, TV and Radio. As mentioned the ATUA really is the Trade Union's only website where this history sits. So basic information regarding the TSU-needs to come from their website or the national ASU one. However I think I have only referenced anyway.

I have also shown I feel the notability of both Secretaries-as they are constantly in the media here talking about the work of the TSU. Also I have shown notability of the various campaigns citing media from across the State of Queensland (which is a high place). So the subject is widely known and I would personally think that trade unions are important as they advocate for working rights-and as noted via the SACS Campaign the TSU started-change history.

I look forward to this page finally being approved.

Thanks

(Ljbird92 (talk) 01:15, 14 November 2012 (UTC)).

Sorry just one more thing-for some reason the refernces are sitting in a starnge place and also most of the references from the Recent Campaigns section have not been picked up-could you please advise how to fix this please

Thanks (Ljbird92 (talk) 01:17, 14 November 2012 (UTC)).

Hi,

Just wondering if you know when my submission will be reviewed again? I am waiting on hopefully getting it approved this time after edits.

Thanks

(Ljbird92 (talk) 11:40, 17 November 2012 (UTC))

hello,

Could someone please respond to my request above? How do I get my Declined Submission, which I feel now has been editied accordingly from reviewers feedback, back into Articles For Creation, so it can be reviewed again?

Thanks(Ljbird92 (talk) 00:35, 21 November 2012 (UTC)).

Hi,

I have taken all the reviewers feedback into consideration and I have explained why The Services Union, is a Branch of The Australian Services Union, so therefore requires a sifferent submission-the reviewer understood this from my explaination. Could my submission please been looked at again.

Thanks

(Ljbird92 (talk) 00:41, 21 November 2012 (UTC))


 * Many of the sources talk about the Queensland Services Union. Would it be better to use this as the title of the article? Regardless of whether The Services Union is the 'trading name' (I didn't realise unions traded!) it seems this name is not widely known or used. Sionk (talk) 22:03, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks. It's a bit confusing I know. Offically the Branch is still the QSU/ASU, but has a trading name The Services Union (in Australian law you can have both) -and this is what this union calls itself since middle of last year-some media comes before this date-so they use the QSU, some media after also-who are used to using the QSU, not The Services Union and I think have been a little lazy in their referencing. I am going to make this more specific in my introduction I think and also cite a few of the others State Branches, so it becomes apparent the differences etc. I need to also work on a couple of others bits too-so will do that and resubmit. Thanks again for your feedback. Where/How do I resubmit when I have done this? (Ljbird92 (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2012 (UTC))


 * It is already waiting to be reviewed. You can continue to make changes in the meantime. You'll probably need to re-write the "Fight for Pay Equity – For All SACS Workers in Australia" section, because it was a word-for-word copy-paste from the union's website. An editor has removed the text. You'll need to write it in your own words (referring to the sources you've found). Sionk (talk) 23:50, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks again-I appreciate all your work and feedback. I will address all the things I have been given feedback on the last day or so. Best wishes(Ljbird92 (talk) 00:00, 22 November 2012 (UTC))

Confusion still exists
I notice the article has been reviewed by another experienced Wikipedia editor and declined for the same reason as mine. There is evidently still a lot of confusion about the subject matter. I don't think it helps that (a) The Services Union seems to be made up partly of a branch called the ASU (the same name as the Australian Services Union) (b) not many news sources seem to mention The Services Union, let alone talk about it in great depth.

Personally (as an ex-union Branch Secretary) I take an interest in these sort of subjects. But I've never come across a Wikipedia article about an individual trade union branch. Maybe The Services Union is simply not widely enough known and you should mention any of its important achievements in another way (for example add them to the Australian Services Union article, or write articles about the events themselves). Hope that gives you some hope and your hard work is not wasted! Sionk (talk) 19:06, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Hi Sionk,

Thanks again for your feedback and I want to do a bit more rewriting re the campaigns. I understand how its confusing re the name ASU. Really this union is more known as the QSU, now The Services Union. I have determination to see this through and will keep trying. Glad you looking at it also, with your background. I have found a couple of examples of Branch wiki entries for you to have a look at. Here is one from the United Services Union - which is a NSW Branch of the ASU http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Services_Union Here is The Queensland Nurses Union entry - they are part of the Australian Nursing Federation wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNU

Can I keep trying re submission? Thanks (Ljbird92 (talk) 22:30, 22 November 2012 (UTC))

Your submission at Articles for creation
 Thank you for your recent submission to Articles for Creation. Your article submission has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. Please view your submission to see the comments left by the reviewer. You are welcome to edit the submission to address the issues raised, and resubmit once you feel they have been resolved.
 * If you would like to continue working on the submission, you can find it at Wikipedia&.
 * To edit the submission, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
 * If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, or on the [ reviewer's talk page] . Please remember to link to the submission!
 * You can also get live chat help from experienced editors.
 * Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia! Snowysusan (talk) 11:27, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Your article submission The Services Union


Hello Ljbird92. It has now been over six months since you last edited your article submission, entitled The Services Union.

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Thanks for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. j⚛e deckertalk 18:29, 4 June 2013 (UTC)