User talk:Lnorthover

February 2012
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I've re-added the distinction between spokespersons and whips, making it accord with the Government Whips Office's list. I also explained in a footnote that Lords Whips speak in debate about their portfolios, unlike Commons Whips. -Rrius (talk) 22:21, 25 February 2012 (UTC)

Dear Rrius

I see that you are using the Government Lords Whips' Office website as your source. Sometimes these things are not as precise as they should be, so let me explain. The structure in the House of Lords is this: there is a lead Minister or Spokesperson for each Department (as I am for International Development) and then there is a deputy. Those deputies are the whips. Unlike in the Commons, we do not do their whipping responsibilities (especially from the Lib Dem side of the coalition, as we have party whips that do that). We deputise for the main Minister in legislation, debates, questions etc in our portfolios. Either one of us will speak or lead depending on availability, or who has been assigned to do this. If you look on the THEYWORKFORUS website you will see this pattern for all of us. Baroness in Waiting is yet another thing. For historic reasons, those of us appointed as Whips also become, when approved by HM, members of the Royal Household, with certain duties for the Queen. Nothing at all to do with the Government. Thus this week I met on her behalf a number of heads of state arriving in the UK. Thus my business card (printed by the Whips' Office) describes me as

Minister in the Government Whips' Office, House of Lords,

Government Spokesperson for: Department for International Development

Government Whip and Spokesperson for: Department of Health Ministry of Justice Women and Equalities

Baroness-in-Waiting

I hope this clarifies what I was seeking to do in terms of the accurcacy of my entry. and it may be that I need to get the staff in the Whips' Office to clarify further the website.

Lindsay Northover

If the Governemt Whips' Office website isn't clear enough, I will seek to get it clarified.Lnorthover (talk) 11:06, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Most of that is clear, but part isn't. Are you saying that Government Whips and party whips are separate things in the Lords? If so, who are the party whips. As for the Baroness-in-waiting issue, I realise the situation; essentially it is a sinecure, and the particulars are, I believe, dealt with at the article linked to. This is the same as for Commons whips, where they are either members of the Household or junior Lords of the Treasury. For your purposes, the added duties arising from the B-i-W office are meaningful; for Wikipedia, it is something to connect to the whip's job parenthetically and let the linked article explain. Again, I understand that there are duties associated with the post, but your holding it is entirely dependent on being a Whip. If you move to the back benches, you will cease being a Baroness-in-waiting, as you would if you were named a Parliamentary Secretary and ceased being a whip, so for WP's purposes, it is just a part of being a whip. It wouldn't be absurd to mention your duties in respect of the post in the body of the article, but noting it, let alone dwelling on it, in the lead is too much. -Rrius (talk) 11:42, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

February 2012
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Ok - I did not realise there was a link explaining the Baroness-in-Waiting element, but of course I can now see that. So that is fine. That entry might be added to a bit, but essentially it is right. Besides the meeting and greeting (hence me meeting the five presidents this week), there are events at the Palace that we attend to help "entertain" the Queen's guests, eg Garden Parties, Diplomatic receptions etc, but you are right - the position ends (usually but not always) when you stop being a Whip. Thus the person who met Pres Obama was not a whip.

Re the makeup at the moment - Lord Wallace of Saltaire, Baroness Garden and I are the Lib Dem Government Whips and Spokespeople (Lord Wallace for Cabinet Office, MOD, FCO; Baroness Garden for DCMS, Education, Bis etc); then there are Lord De Mauley, Bns Verma, Bns Rawlings, E Attlee, Bns Stowell for the Conservatives. Usually the lead Minister in the Lords also has specific departmental responsibilities - a slice of the department (eg in Justice, that might be for prisons, or probation). But like the Secretary of State who is usually in the Commons (and unlike the other Commons Ministers) the lead Minister in the Lords has to answer across all areas of the department. So does his or her deputy - the spokesperson/whip. What we don't have is a slice of the department to be responsible for - but we have to be up to speed across all areas of all our departments.

Re party whips - we have about six Lib Dems - off the top of my head they are Bns Maddock, Ld Stoneham, Bns Hussein-Ece, Ld Addington, Bns Randerson, Ld Lee. The Conservatives have a similar number. In addition we have backbench convenors in all policy areas, thus in my areas Bns Jolly in Health, Ld Chidgey in International Development, Ld Thomas of Gresford in Justice. Again if you look at the Theyworkforyou website you will see the pattern of how they contribute in legislation and debate.

Hope that clarifies.

Lindsay Northover

Ok - I did not realise there was a link explaining the Baroness-in-Waiting element, but of course I can now see that. So that is fine. That entry might be added to a bit, but essentially it is right. Besides the meeting and greeting (hence me meeting the five presidents this week), there are events at the Palace that we attend to help "entertain" the Queen's guests, eg Garden Parties, Diplomatic receptions etc, but you are right - the position ends (usually but not always) when you stop being a Whip. Thus the person who met Pres Obama was not a whip.

Re the makeup at the moment - Lord Wallace of Saltaire, Baroness Garden and I are the Lib Dem Government Whips and Spokespeople (Lord Wallace for Cabinet Office, MOD, FCO; Baroness Garden for DCMS, Education, Bis etc); then there are Lord De Mauley, Bns Verma, Bns Rawlings, E Attlee, Bns Stowell for the Conservatives. Usually the lead Minister in the Lords also has specific departmental responsibilities - a slice of the department (eg in Justice, that might be for prisons, or probation). But like the Secretary of State who is usually in the Commons (and unlike the other Commons Ministers) the lead Minister in the Lords has to answer across all areas of the department. So does his or her deputy - the spokesperson/whip. What we don't have is a slice of the department to be responsible for - but we have to be up to speed across all areas of all our departments.

Re party whips - we have about six Lib Dems - off the top of my head they are Bns Maddock, Ld Stoneham, Bns Hussein-Ece, Ld Addington, Bns Randerson, Ld Lee. The Conservatives have a similar number. In addition we have backbench convenors in all policy areas, thus in my areas Bns Jolly in Health, Ld Chidgey in International Development, Ld Thomas of Gresford in Justice. Again if you look at the Theyworkforyou website you will see the pattern of how they contribute in legislation and debate.

Hope that clarifies.

Lindsay Northover

Re Whips and Lords in Waiting. Constitutionally it is the other way around. It isn't that Lords in Waiting become Government Whips. Those who become Government Whips in the Lords are appointed as Lords in Waiting to the Queen. But not all Lords in Waiting are Government Whips. There are a number of others, some of whom have never been Government Whips, and some of whom have been. Therefore it might be possible for me to lose my position as Government Whip and Spokesperson but to continue as a Baroness in Waiting. Lnorthover (talk) 13:49, 26 February 2012 (UTC)