User talk:Loucasteph

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Hello, Loucasteph, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. There's a page about creating articles you may want to read called Your first article. If you are stuck, and looking for help, please come to the Teahouse, where experienced Wikipedians can answer any queries you have! Or, you can just type help me on this page, followed by your question, and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Here are a few other good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Questions or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Wgolf (talk) 21:25, 27 March 2015 (UTC)
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COI concerns remain
Hi Loucasteph

This COI notice needs to remain on your Talk page until we are able to resolve the questions I've asked you, as it triggers a category being placed on your page as a potentially conflicted editor.

Would you please come to Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard and answer the questions there?

Hello, Loucasteph. We welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, but if you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about on Wikipedia, you may have a conflict of interest or close connection to the subject.

All editors are required to comply with Wikipedia's neutral point of view content policy. People who are very close to a subject often have a distorted view of it, which may cause them to inadvertently edit in ways that make the article either too flattering or too disparaging. People with a close connection to a subject are not absolutely prohibited from editing about that subject, but they need to be especially careful about ensuring their edits are verified by reliable sources and writing with as little bias as possible.

If you are very close to a subject, here are some ways you can reduce the risk of problems:


 * Avoid or exercise great caution when editing or creating articles related to you, your organization, or its competitors, as well as projects and products they are involved with.
 * Avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see Spam).
 * Exercise great caution so that you do not accidentally breach Wikipedia's content policies.

Please familiarize yourself with relevant content policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, verifiability of information, and autobiographies. Note that Wikipedia's terms of use require disclosure of your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation.

For information on how to contribute to Wikipedia when you have a conflict of interest, please see our frequently asked questions for organizations. Thank you.

Thank you. Jytdog (talk) 17:44, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Hi Jytdog! I am sorry for deleting the previous COI report from my talk page. I thought I had addressed any COI concerns on the article. Will you please read the article and let me know what parts you are concerned about? I have read the article again and again and have not found that they violate the Wikipedia principles you cited here.
 * Thanks for replying! Very happy to talk about that in a bit, but would you first answer these questions?  Thanks!


 * are you an employee or intern or volunteer for the MD Anderson Cancer Center, the Houston Galveston Institute, or any of its affiliated institutions or practitioners?
 * are you receiving pay of any kind for editing Wikipedia?
 * are you a practitioner yourself?
 * your edit note, when you created the Lorenzo Cohen article read: 'We created this page for Dr. Lorenzo Cohen, a prolific author in the field of Integrative Medicine and Faculty member at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center". Who is the "we" to whom you referred?  Thanks Jytdog (talk) 17:55, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

I am sorry for being hesitant, but am I in trouble? I am not paid at all for the Wikipedia editing. Am I not allowed to edit things on Wikipedia if I am affiliated with them? I am sorry for asking you here. I just want to understand the process more. As I am looking through the Wiki rules you posted a link to (thank you!) I am seeing that you can edit pages, but must disclose your affiliations on your talk page. Is that the case? Thank you for your help with this.


 * You didn't do anything wrong, per se Thank you for coming out and asking!
 * First, there is the "we" thing, which is just kind of strange. But your edits were kind of promotional - whether you have a conflict of interest (COI) or not, it is pretty clear that you are a fan of what you are writing about. Probably one of the most important content policies here is neutral point of view and when people come and edit in a way that is more promotional than neutral, sometimes it is because they are a fan, and sometimes it is because they have some COI.  I am trying to work with you, to figure out which one it is.
 * There is a lot of.... emotion.. intensity... etc.. about COI editing in WP, and it is really important for editors who a COI, to disclose what it is, and follow a few simple "rules" when they edit. It is not a big deal, but it should all be transparent.
 * i hope that makes sense and I am glad you asked if you are "in trouble".
 * i am glad you are reading WP:COI, too. When you are starting out, people will give you links to various policies and guidelines, and yes you should read them, and get to know them, if you want to stick around (and I hope you do!)
 * you also ask, can you edit pages of institutions you are affiliated with. it depends.... I work for a huge university, and i do my best to never write anything about it, to make sure i don't cross that line.
 * since you already wrote about Cohen, MD Anderson, Houston Galveston Institute... if you are affiliated with them in any way, you have edited with a conflict, and you really should disclose that. Anyway, let me know.  Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 18:19, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
 * just to be clear, you won't be in trouble or anything. (what is trouble, is editing with a conflict and not disclosing it). i hope that makes sense. Jytdog (talk) 18:30, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for talking to me about this. I am new to the Wikipedia process (obviously!) and am glad you are taking time to explain these things to me. Two questions more (if you have time!): Where can users disclose their potential COI? Also, are there ways to still write about an affiliated institution if the edits are deemed neutral?


 * you are welcome, and I am grateful you are talking with me. The best place to disclose a conflict is on your user page, which is User:Loucasteph.  You don't have to say your name or anything, but something like "I work at the Houston Galveston Institute" or the like, would be sufficient.   If you read COI all the way through, what you should do is avoid directly editing articles where you have a conflict (except to change really minor, factual, uncontroversial things (like the street address)) and otherwise, offer suggestions about content, on the associated talk page.  (search WP:COI for "edit request" and you will see that explained there.  That is the restriction that we ask conflicted editors to follow - that is how we manage COI.  I hope that makes sense. Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 18:54, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

So is the Edit Request a sort of Wikipedia-style Peer Review? For example, if I notice a glaring error about Golden Retrievers, but I am the top breeder for Golden Retrievers, I can suggest an edit on the Golden Retriever talk page. Then, people can see if it is neutral enough, or edit it until it is neutral enough? Then, the editors can place it on the page once it is sufficiently vetted? (Again, thank you for patiently guiding me through this).
 * you nailed it. yes, exactly. Jytdog (talk) 19:32, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

So my thought process is the following: 1. Post disclosures on my user page 2. Post the existing contents of the article to the "Talk" page of the articles with which I feel I have potential COI. 3. Editors give their feedback (by the way, do you request particular editors or do you just wait for people to randomly edit?) 4. After editors deem the content sufficiently neutral, the content can go live.
 * yes, that's it. you haven't said yet what your conflict is.... but let's say, for example, that you are a marketing or PR person, and you are getting paid to edit.  something you have to remember, is that everybody at WP (including me) is a volunteer.  disinterested.  so, sure you can ask someone to come and review and implement your edit, but you have to remember that (if you are a paid editor) you are basically exploiting the volunteer community, so you can get paid.  i don't mean to be ugly, but i do mean to be clear.  so .. conflicted editors need to be patient, yes.  i have a seen a few start to get all aggressive, and it gets them farther from what they want, not closer.
 * of course people lie here all the time, cloaked in anonymity, and do whatever they want. but if they continue making promotional edits they end up getting in real trouble, especially if they have lied.  that is how it works.
 * COI editing is especially under scrutiny deep in the guts of the community, because we just had the resolution of a looooooooooong case where an "admininistrator" (an editor with extra powers) who was well-liked in some quarters, turned out to have been editing for pay for a long time. bad news.  so everybody is a bit...edgey about COI now. Jytdog (talk) 20:08, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

That's criminal! I can see why the community would be on edge about such a thing. No money being made here... I am just a recent graduate and studied at these places, so that is why I am asking so much about COI. I want to make sure that I am not violating any principles while publishing the things that I learned about. I just want to share the information with people who might be interested, and this is the best place to do that. :-) Thank you for explaining the process to me. I appreciate that there is a sort of peer-review within Wikipedia. It keeps crap from being put up.

Sorry for sending another message, but can you walk me through the process of an Edit Request on existing pages? Or link me to where I can find this?