User talk:Lukflug

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February 2023
Hello. Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. I noticed that your recent edit to Windows 1.0x did not have an edit summary. You can use the edit summary field to explain your reasoning for an edit, or to provide a description of what the edit changes. Summaries save time for other editors and reduce the chances that your edit will be misunderstood. For some edits, an adequate summary may be quite brief.

The edit summary field looks like this:

Please provide an edit summary for every edit you make. With a Wikipedia account you can give yourself a reminder to add an edit summary by setting, and then click the "Save" button. Thanks! Vacant0 (talk) 19:36, 18 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Sorry for neglecting the edit summary, and not paying attention to sourcing. I originally just wanted to change the phrasing of the text, but ended up changing the meaning. I will list the things I believe can be improved, in hopes a consensus can be reached on my reverted edit.


 * "It also runs on MS-DOS as a 16-bit shell program known as the MS-DOS Executive,[26]": this phrase can be misinterpreted, and is partially just repeating the previous sentence. The "also" implies that in addition to being "built on MS-DOS", it also "runs on MS-DOS" as if those verbs had different meanings in this context. In addition, the text of the source cited does not mention the "MS-DOS Executive" once, and the "runs as a" connection between Windows 1.0 ("It") and the MS-DOS executive is also misleading and seemingly unsourced. I believe the relationship between Windows and the MS-DOS executive should be clarified and I guess in retrospect that requires additional sources:.


 * "Compared to MS-DOS, the operating environment also utilizes mice, which allow users to perform click-and-drag operations, although the mouse was not required.[15][29]": I find the "compared to MS-DOS" phrase problematic, since there were third-party MS-DOS programs, which supported the use of a mouse, and later MS-DOS versions shipped with applications that had mouse support, if the proper drivers were installed, and the source material never explicitly makes a comparison to MS-DOS. In addition, I thought the "although the mouse was not required" phrase could be avoided, by replacing "also utilizes" by "supported the use of".


 * "Contradictory to modern Windows operating systems, the mouse button had to be kept pressed to display the selected menu.[11]": "contradictory" should be replaced by "contrary".


 * "In the MS-DOS Executive, .exe files were used as programs that would open an application window.[15]": I think a "were used as" relationship is not appropriate here. The source cited states "If you clicked an EXE file in MS-DOS Executive, the program would open as an application window". I think "Opening .exe files in the MS-DOS Executive would open an application" is closer to the meaning conveyed in the source.


 * "Windows 1.0 came in with a few programs": "came in" should definitely be replaced.


 * "instead, it introduced Reversi as a commercially published video game": so here I probably went a bit contrary to the howtogeek source. The source does give the impression (though does not actually state) Reversi was published commercially before being included in Windows, although Reversi was included in both Windows Premiere Edition, and Windows 1.01, the first commercial Windows version. In addition, I find the phrasing "based on the eponymous strategy game" a bit weird. It would be like saying a chess program with an AI is based on the eponymous strategy game chess, instead of saying that it is an implementation of chess.


 * I also added a link to stacking window manager.


 * "which are located as files in the system under the names KERNEL.EXE, USER.EXE, and GDI.EXE": So I would clarify that those files do not appear in a normal Windows 1.0 install. Instead they are bundled, along with all fonts and device drivers, except for printer drivers, into WIN100.BIN and WIN100.OVL, so they can be loaded quicker. See Microsoft Windows SDK version 1.03, Binder 1, pages 13, 27, and 200.


 * "It includes kernels": this shouldn't be plural.


 * "in the memory, it could move program code and data segments": I think "it could move program code and data segments in memory" is better.


 * I also moved "Windows 1.0 also implemented the use of code segment swapping." to a more logical place, i.e. right after the sentence dedicated to memory management (since this also falls under memory management). Another thing would be that memory management ends up being listed twice ("such as task handling, memory management, ..." and "The operating environment is capable of memory management").


 * I hope these points clarify my edit, and that the edit is acceptable if I add an edit summary and the sources I cited here. --Lukflug (talk) 21:17, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I'll take a look and leave a comment regarding these changes in a few days, as I'm unable to go through these changes atm. Vacant0 (talk) 21:27, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * The citation that you provided is not reliable, I've re-worded this part and added a source that backs this up.
 * Fixed.
 * Fixed.
 * Fixed.
 * Fixed.
 * Fixed.
 * Wikilinked.
 * Can you post a citation here for this? I wasn't able to find this online.
 * Fixed.
 * Fixed.
 * Fixed.
 * Vacant0 (talk) 22:33, 24 February 2023 (UTC)


 * Thank you for the changes. Two minor things: "mice" should be replaced by the singular form "mouse", in order to be congruent with the singular indefinite article "a". In addition, the problem with "kernels" being plural wasn't just it being plural, but also that it was linked with "such as", implying that the items listed are examples of kernels, rather than examples of tasks performed by the kernel. I'll take the liberty of doing these minor changes myself.


 * Regarding number 8, the Windows 1.03 SDK disk images and manuals can be found at . The Microsoft Windows SDK Programmer's Utility Guide version 1.03 pages 13 and 200 state that the SDK contains debugging versions of,  , and  , which can replace the corresponding files on the setup disk, which can then by installed normally through the setup program. In addition, page 27 states   is loaded before any Windows application is loaded:
 * "All Windows applications receive a pointer to the environment allocated for the initial load of win100.bin."
 * However, the most relevant piece of information (which I forgot to mention last time) can be found in the  found on the SDK's Utility Disk 2. Specifically the "Creating a Slow Boot Version of Windows" section.
 * "Some developers may want to create a 'slow boot' version of Windows. It is called a slow boot version because it loads the individual drivers and dynamic-link libraries of Windows separately. This takes longer to load and start than the version of Windows created by the Setup program. The advantage of the slow boot version is that you can change individual parts of Windows quickly without having to run the Setup program again. For example, if you change your display adapter you just change your display driver file and Windows is ready to go."
 * This is followed by instructions to copy the contents Setup and Build disks of Windows (listed in ), replace  by the debugging version, and rename certain files related to keyboard, mouse, and display drivers, plus a font file.
 * I don't know if this is enough to support the entire claim. But at least this can be cited to support the following statement:
 * "The setup program combines multiple system files into one, so that Windows boots faster. Using the debugging KERNEL.EXE provided by the Windows SDK one can create a 'slow boot' version of Windows, where the files are separate."
 * Unfortunately it doesn't directly state that these files are combined into . However, based on the instructions, the setup program , and the program   are no longer needed, and   becomes an empty file. I have found one secondary source talking about this, and even state that the system files are combined into  . However, I'm not sure they count as reliable sources.


 * One can reason based on the disk contents, that,  ,  , the keyboard, mouse, and display drivers, in addition to the font files, and   and  , fulfill the function of  ,  , and  . However I guess this counts as synthesis, so the only claim that can be included in the article are the two sentences I wrote in blockqoutes, citing the SDK readme as a source. If the secondary source I cited does count as reliable, one can additionally say that the system files are combined into  . --Lukflug (talk) 15:36, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I've added the first part into the article. Ref 4 is unreliable and Ref 5 and 6 are wikis that do not contain any sources. Vacant0 (talk) 17:45, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

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