User talk:Lullabying/Archive 1

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Re notability of Beckii Cruel. After all of her self-publicity on YouTube, she has achieved some temporary notoriety (I hesitate to use the word "fame") in some otherwise irrelevant on-line communities, and has achieved "idol" status in Japan. However, this status is highly ephemeral - idols come and go on a weekly basis, and so this hardly constitutes notability. As for the reporting in the UK press, I put this down to lazy reporters spending too much time on 4chan and not enough time doing real research. Furthermore, what evidence can you offer to show that you are not actually the person in question, or directly related to her in some way? See WP:AUTO. (Oh, and BTW, I'm not doing this as a "hater", I quite enjoy some of her/your things, I just don't think they are yet notable as per Wikipedia guidelines) PS4FA (talk) 08:48, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

List of Kamen Rider Double episodes
The editors of the page (primarily myself as I seem to be writing too much) are aware that the summaries are at times too long. However, using plot is entirely unnecessary as it's an episode list. It's supposed to be about the plot summary.— Ryūlóng ( 竜龙 ) 06:33, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Koizora (film)
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Linking to actors/actresses on the Max Keeble page.
I see you managed to link actors and actresses that didn't have articles yet (such as Brooke Anne Smith, for example). If I must suggest something, I'd say that you either try to get enough info to make articles on them, or you remove the links. I'll wish you luck, especially seeing how I failed to do the Brooke Anne Smith article. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 20:47, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Fushigiboshi no Futagohime
Thanks for catching my mistake about the existence of the DS Software. However, I don't believe Bemani has labeled it as a game. I have changed the section to read "DS Software" and altered the sentence to read "An electronic organizer software..." as a result, since this better reflects the use of the software. - Penwhale &#124; dance in the air and follow his steps 05:39, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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A goat for you!
Thanks for shortening up the spammy summaries at List of RWBY episodes!

AngusWOOF ( bark  •  sniff ) 18:09, 7 December 2017 (UTC) 

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Frances & Aiko
You should demonstrate the duo's notability. It they didn't chart, you should demonstrate they meet WP:GNG. In order to do it, you should find articles about them in reliable sources and link the sources from the Wikipedia article. (Preferably you should use the sources when writing the article and link them as references.)

Actually, I thought the Wikipedia article had been deleted once already (I thought there existed a Wikipedia article about Frances & Aiko a long time ago and it was deleted), but I didn't find any sign of that now. No logs, no links from deletion discussions, nothing. Maybe it never existed after all. Thank you for creating it. --Moscow Connection (talk) 14:39, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Buono!
Could you stop please? That's encyclopedic unformation. Do you want Wikipedia to be useful for those people who want to read about the group or not? --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:15, 30 April 2018 (UTC) Let's not fight, okay? I wanted to help you to defend the article "Frances & Aiko" in case someone proposes it for deletion (the group is actually of questionable notability) and you are acting like this. Actually, I find your edits to Hello! Project articles too drastic, but I didn't revert anything yet cause I think Wikipedia needs some people who are interested in Hello! Project. You see, I'm trying to help and I'm happy you came, but you are acting bossy... --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:36, 30 April 2018 (UTC) 1. The member colors are more important than the whole Francis & Aiko article. (No, I wouldn't think about deleting it, but it's true. You are obviously a fan of them, so it's safe to say the article is fancruft cause it's written by a fan. And I can vividly imagine how someone comes there and deletes half of it simply because the person thinks no one should care. That's exactly how you are acting now.) 2. if you start all this, you will damage a lot of articles. Do you want, for example, to delete the tables in the Hello Pro Kenshusei article or what? And to list all the Momosu members in some simple list format that is hard to read? --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:52, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Listing member colors is not encyclopedia information; it's more of a fancruft. Also, the members' birthdays and ages are already listed on their own individual articles. I'm also following the format for Babymetal. lullabying (talk) 01:18, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * The Babymetal members don't have any colors assigned to them.And I follow the format for Morning Musume etc. Let's not fight about it, okay? --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:23, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Morning Musume is in need of a lot of clean-up anyway. Member colors are not encyclopedic; you can add them in prose under a "Public image" section, but member information should not be in tables and listed as such. If you look at any K-pop article, where there are official colors for each group, they are rarely mentioned in a conspicuous manner like how you chose to do. Member colors are only relevant to the fans. lullabying (talk) 01:29, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Please don't touch the articles. The member colors are discussed in multiple reliable sources and they are encyclopedic information. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:42, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It is encyclopedic information. The Japanese Wikipedia has it. I will source it later (in a few days).
 * All I can say to that is Japanese Wikipedia's format isn't the same as English Wikipedia. I will copy our discussion to Talk:Buono! and submit it to Third opinion. I have stated my reasons and I feel it is better to get a third opinion on this. I also don't appreciate you sending personal attacks (i.e. I'm being "bossy") when I have done nothing but state why I disagree. lullabying (talk) 01:41, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I would just say this...
 * You called the article fancruft which is an insult. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:52, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Could we not fight please? I will try to convince you now, just a sec. --Moscow Connection (talk) 01:54, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Moscow Connection, I am not fighting with you; I just disagree with your reasoning. I understand you want to improve the articles, but you're also being quite defensive of them and not allowing edits to information that is perceived as irrelevant outside of die-hard fans. Wikipedia is not a fan site. I also don't appreciate you attacking me again and accusing me of "damaging" the articles. I personally would not call myself a fan of Frances & Aiko (I don't even listen to their music) but I recognize them as a pop culture icon in Taiwan because they were heralded as top child stars in Taiwan, and I have listed news articles that discuss such. If anyone wants to change up anything, I wouldn't mind, because this is the nature of Wikipedia. I was also the one who added the tables to Hello Pro Kenshusei. I also did not call the article a fan cruft -- just information about the member colors. I did not realize that could be interpreted as an insult and I apologize for making you feel hurt. However, while I don't mind if you want to disagree with me, if you continue to attack me (i.e. calling my reasons as me being "bossy" and accuse me of "damaging" the articles), I will submit our conversation to edit warring. lullabying (talk) 02:04, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know why you react like this. It's just my opinion that removing the tables would damage the article, that's all. I'm sorry if that upset you. --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:38, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Please look at this: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Korea/Popular culture/Archive 3. The first link will show you how all the K-pop articles lost the member sections. Not just tables, the whole sections. Many people disagreed, but the topic starter still deleted them. So basically, if you start a fuzz about all this, there is a (slight) chance that all the Japanese-related articles will lose not only the the tables, but everything. Yes, many people will disagree, but there aren't that many people who edit J-pop articles there. In the end, there will be no information about the members whatsoever. "The members' names aren't encyclopedic, they come and go! No one can remember their names anyway, only fans can! Wow, you know Momoka Tsugunaga's name! That's strange, I could have never remembered something like this. Now I know you are a crazy fan, so everything you do is fancruft!" I bet some people will say that. That's the hard truth. No one touched Little Mix (look at at "Little Mix") cause they have lots of fans here on Wiki, while K-pop groups don't. We are actually two of the very few people who edit the J-pop articles. (There are maybe 5 people or less who more or less regularly update them.) I don't think we should fight. I you really hate the table in the Buono! article, I think we can find a solution. (By the way, you didn't delete the positions. Do you think the positions are encylopedic? I bet some people will say that since American bands don't have any member positions, Japanese band shouldn't be allowed to list them too. In the end, the article will say just "vocals, vocal, vocals". That's what happened at Babymetal. I know cause I created the article. And my version said "vocals, dance", "scream, dance", "scream, dance", just as in their official profiles. But it was obviously too hard for people to comprehend. --Moscow Connection (talk) 02:37, 30 April 2018 (UTC) The colors are not part of the public image. I would happily move them somewhere just to end this discussion, but the best place for them is where they are now. --Moscow Connection (talk) 03:05, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Moscow Connection, once again, I am not fighting with you or attacking you. Please don't take it personally that I simply don't agree with your reasons. I understand where you're coming from, but J-pop and idol fans are not the only people Wikipedia caters to, and you need to understand that what you think is "important" to know (like the member colors) may not be important to anyone else. And please don't make it an "us against the world" argument just because the K-pop articles started removing tables. You're making a very hyperbolic statement about what you think is going to happen if we implement clean-up changes. Wikipedia should only serve as a summary.
 * In addition to this, I am acting "like this" because I don't see why certain information is needed and have told you such. You blamed me for potentially "damaging" the articles when I disagreed and told you why. If you insist on adding it, put it in a section titled "Public image" or something. The tables are not needed. lullabying (talk) 02:49, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * It's not about what's "important". Why do you think this is important? Or this? And how is this (which, if I remember correctly, is actually something I wrote; did you copy-paste it from the "Cute" article?) to her and not the group as a whole. What I want to say is that your opinion is subjective and you should listen to other people too. --Moscow Connection (talk) 03:00, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * And this, some can argue it's unimportant. --Moscow Connection (talk) 03:03, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Basically, everything we write on Wiki can be important to some and unimportant to some.
 * I actually do remember copy-pasting the sources, and it was a brief summary. I am editing them later; I don't remember if I copied the text exactly. Furthermore, if you don't feel certain edits are important, you're free to edit them, but let's go back on topic with the member colors. My case still stands there and I do not see how they are important to the overall article. I stand on my case on member colors. I don't think we'll come to an agreement on this, so I submitted a review to Third opinion. Thanks for your time. lullabying (talk) 03:18, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

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Thank you
Good working with you on the Free! articles. I'll be working on tightening up the plot summaries for S1&2 on the main topic page and checking the word counts for the episode summaries for S1&2, as well. I always learn new things when I work with more experienced editors and I always appreciate it. Be well. luxartisan 21:39, 7 August 2018 (UTC)