User talk:Lwr314

If B answers 'ja', he cannot possibly be the random one. If random is lying, it would mean A is indeed random. If he was speaking the truth, it would mean A is the random one as well. Him saying "ja", means A is the random god, thus, not himself

Assume that 'ja' means yes and 'da' means no. Let's say Random decides to be truthful, and says "ja". Since he is telling the truth the truthful answer to the question is 'ja', which means yes. Let's say Random decides to lie, and says "ja". Since he is lying it follows that if you asked him the question, he would instead answer 'da'. He would be lying, so the truthful answer to the question is 'ja', which means yes.

Assume 'ja' means no and 'da' means yes. Let's say Random decides to be truthful, and says "ja". Since he is telling the truth the truthful answer to the question is 'da', which means yes. Let's say Random decides to lie, and says "ja". Since he is lying it follows that if you asked him the question he would in fact answer 'ja'. He would be lying, so the truthful answer to the question is 'da', which means yes.

There fore, REGARDLESS of whether random tells the truth or lies, a "ja" would imply that A is indeed random, thus he cannot be it himself.

Thanks

lwr314:

(1) You are assuming the unmodified Random that randomly tells the truth or lies (instead of randomly saying `ja' or `da'). This is fine as it is literally what the puzzle says. Read the rest of the wikipedia article to see how to modify the puzzle to get the intended meaning.

(2) Even if you are using the unmodified Random, the question "If i asked you Q would you say `ja'?" is not good enough to get the desired result. The reason is that he is saying whether or not he would say `ja' to Q when you asked him Q in another instance (at which time his coin would flip again and he could switch from liar to truth-teller or vice-versa). This is why we changed the question to "If i asked you Q, in your current mental state, would you say `ja'?" or something equivalent.

This is all in the wikipedia article. With the literal reading of the puzzle the embedded question with the `current mental state' business trivializes the puzzle. The modified puzzle (where Random randly says `ja' or `da') is the usual (and interesting) interpretation.