User talk:M.O.X/Archive 19

WikiCup 2013 June newsletter
We are down to our final 16: the 2013 semi-finals are upon us. A score of 321 was required to survive round 3, further cementing this as the most competitive WikiCup yet; round 3 was survived in 2012 with 243 points, in 2011 with 76 points and in 2010 with 250 points. The change may in part be to do with the fact that more articles are now awarded bonus points, in addition to more competitive play. Reaching the final has, in the past, required 573 points (2012, a 135% increase on the score needed to reach round 4), 150 points (2011, a 97% increase) and 417 points (2010, a 72% increase). This round has seen over a third of participants claiming points for featured articles (with seven users claiming for multiple featured articles) and most users have also gained bonus points. However, the majority of points continue to come from good articles, followed by did you know articles. In this round, every content type was utilised by at least one user, proving that the WikiCup brings together content contributors from all corners of the project.

Round 3 saw a number of contributions of note. claimed the first featured topic points in this year's competition for her excellent work on topics related to Maya Angelou, the noted American author and poet. We have also continued to see high-importance articles improved as part of the competition: was awarded a thoroughly well-earned 560 points for her featured article Middle Ages and 102 points for her good article Battle of Hastings. Good articles James Chadwick and Stanislaw Ulam netted 102 and 72 points respectively, while 72 points were awarded to  for each of Władysław Sikorski and Emilia Plater, both recently promoted to good article status. Collaborative efforts between WikiCup participants have continued, with, for example, and  being awarded 180 points each for their featured article on Boletus luridus.

A rules reminder: content promoted between rounds can be claimed in the round after the break, but not the round before. The case in point is content promoted on the 29/30 June, which may be claimed in this round. If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. We are currently seeing concern about the amount of time people have to wait for reviews, especially at GAC- if you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to reduce the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 09:46, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:List of Unix daemons
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The WikiProject Video Games Newsletter, Q2 2013
MuZemike delivered by MuZebot 15:56, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Technical (vehicle)
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Toluca Lake, Los Angeles
Should the following paragraph be kept or deleted from the lede section of the above article? "According to an analysis of the 2000 census data by the Los Angeles Times, the Los Angeles section of Toluca Lake is an affluent, 71.9% white, domestically stable, older-aged, low-density neighborhood of the city." The discussion is at Talk:Toluca_Lake,_Los_Angeles. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:08, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Panchen Lama
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Google.com as book publisher?
Two questions from a non-expert:

I notice that you have given Google.com as publisher of various books cited in the article Apostolic succession, books for which the respective publishing houses, year of publication and ISBN are indicated. Would it not be better to use "cite book", rather than "cite web"?

Also would it not be better to put the "dead link" tag outside (immediately after) a citation, not within it, so that the tag will be visible? Esoglou (talk) 10:31, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Hello there, I merely reviewed the changes made by Reflinks to ensure nothing was broken and that references were being filled out consistent with policy. Reflinks does not make distinctions between ebooks and stock-standard webpages, and therefore defaulted to "cite web". It does, however, distinguish news websites from ordinary website. That's as far as I'm aware of the issue. As for dead link tags, those are to be placed within ref tags: Template:Dead_Link. Regards,  James ( T •  C ) • 10:36pm • 11:36, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Should Reflinks therefore be modified so that it will distinguish between books and other sources, or at least should users of Reflinks be warned to check what Reflinks does to book references? Or is it simply acceptable or perhaps even best policy to continue to present books, new or old, as published by Google.com?  It isn't for me, who have no experience of using Reflinks, to evaluate these questions.
 * Thanks for the explanation of the placing of the "dead link" tag. I accept that those who made the rule must have had good reason for making it, although I fail to understand the advantage of having the tag appear in a footnote, rather than in the text, where it would be obvious to readers who might then remedy the fault.  It was because I noticed the tag in the diff of your edit, not in the footnote (where I might never have seen it), that I updated from the dead link that you tagged to the live one that has replaced it on the same website.  Esoglou (talk) 16:34, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
 * You'd have to ask User:Dispenser, he's the coder for Reflinks, Checklinks, Dablinks and a few other tools. I'd imagine it has something to do with the bot not being able to analyse images and presumably would gather this info from the metadata. If Google Books offers any easy reference section on their ebooks, presumably Dispenser could code it to scan for this section of code.  James ( T •  C ) • 10:03pm • 11:03, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I have done so. Esoglou (talk) 20:46, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

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Please comment on Talk:Steven Crowder
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WikiCup 2013 July newsletter
We're halfway through this year's penultimate round, and the competition is moving along well. Pool A's currently leads overall, while Pool B's  is second. Both leaders are WikiCup veterans, and both have already scored over 600 points this month. If the round were to end today,, with 274 points, would be the lowest-scoring participant to make it through. This indicates that participants will need a score comparable to last year's (573, the highest ever) to qualify for the final. The high scores this year are a testament both to the quality of participants and to the increased focus on significant content (eligible for bonus points) in this year's competition. So far this round, both Sasata and have made up over half of their score through bonus points, with, for example, high importance FA koala earning Sasata a total of 440 points (from a multiplier of 4.4) and high-importance GA sea earning Cwmhiraeth a total of 216 points (from a multiplier of 7.2). Other articles on important topics submitted this round include a featured article on the Norman conquest of England by, and good articles on Nobel laureate in literature Henryk Sienkiewicz, Nobel laureate in physics Hans Bethe, and the noted Japanese aircraft carrier Hiryū. These articles are by, and Sturmvogel_66 respectively.

Other than that, there is not much to report! If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to reduce the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 23:11, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK RfC

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DYK RfC

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Please comment on Talk:Natalie Tran
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WikiCup 2013 August newsletter
This year's final is upon us. Our final eight, in order of last round's score, are:
 * , a WikiCup newcomer who has contributed on topics of military history and physics, including a number of high-importance topics. Good articles have made up the bulk of his points, but he has also scored a great deal of bonus points. He has the second highest score overall so far, with more than 3000 points accumulated.
 * , another WikiCup veteran who reached the finals in 2012, 2011 and 2010. He writes on a variety of topics including botany, mycology and astronomy, and has claimed the highest or joint highest number of featured articles every round so far this year. He has the third highest score overall, with just under 3000 points accumulated.
 * , 2012 WikiCup champion, who writes mostly on marine biology. She has also contributed to high-importance topics, seeing huge numbers of bonus points for high-importance featured and good articles. Previous rounds have seen her scoring the most bonus points, with scoring spread across did you knows, good articles and featured articles.
 * , a WikiCup veteran who finished in second place in 2012, and competed as early as 2009. He writes articles on biology, especially mycology, and has scored highly for a number of collaborations at featured article candidates.
 * , the winner of the 2010 competition. His contributions mostly concern Naval history, and he has scored a very large number of points for good articles and good article reviews in every round. He is the highest scorer overall this year, with over 3500 points in total.
 * , who is competing in the WikiCup for the second time, though this will be her first time in the final. A regular at FAC, she is mostly interested in British medieval history, and has scored very highly for some top-importance featured articles on the topic.
 * , a finalist in 2012 and 2011. He writes on a broad variety of topics, with many of this year's points coming from good articles about Star Trek. Good articles make up the bulk of his points, and he had the most good articles back in round 2; he was also the highest scorer for DYK in rounds 1 and 2.
 * 1) has previously been involved with the WikiCup, but hasn't participated for a number of years. He scores mostly from restoration work leading to featured picture credits, but has also done some article writing and reviewing.

We say goodbye to eight great participants who did not qualify for the final:, , , , , , ,. Having made it to this stage is still an excellent achievement, and you can leave with your heads held high. We hope to see you all again next year. Signups are now open for the 2014 WikiCup, which will begin on 1 January. All Wikipedians, whatever their interest or level of experience, are warmly invited to participate in next year's competition.

This last month has seen some incredible contributions; for instance, Cwmhiraeth's Starfish and Ealdgyth's Battle of Hastings—two highly important, highly viewed pages—made it to featured article status. It would be all too easy to focus solely on these stunning achievements at the expense of those participants working in lower-scoring areas, when in fact all WikiCup participants are doing excellent work. A mention of everything done is impossible, but here are a few: Last round saw the completion of several good topics (on the 1958, 1959 and 1962 Atlantic hurricane seasons) to which 12george1 had contributed. Calvin999 saw "S&M" (song), on which he has been working for several years, through to featured article status on its tenth try. Figureskatingfan continued towards her goal of a broad featured/good topic on Maya Angelou, with two featured and four good articles. ThaddeusB contributed significantly to over 20 articles which appeared on the main page's "in the news" section. Adam Cuerden continued to restore a large number of historical images, resulting in over a dozen FP credits this round alone. The WikiCup is not just about top-importance featured articles, and the work of all of these users is worthy of commendation.

Finally, the usual notices: If you are concerned that your nomination—whether it is at good article candidates, a featured process, or anywhere else—will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on WikiCup/Reviews. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to reduce the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. J Milburn (talk • email) and The ed17 (talk • email) 05:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

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Referendum plural
Hello MOX. I've reverted all your changes of "referendums" to "referenda". We use the former term on Wikipedia (I initially used referenda until I was advised of this). If you want to discuss, please raise the issue at WP:Elections and referendums (note the name!). Cheers, Number   5  7  12:07, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This simply makes no sense, Australian English uses referenda. The article is about referenda IN Australia. Logically, it would follow that the article use referenda... I'm not going to bother raising the matter over at the linked project page, I don't want to get into another heated debate over a trivial issue. The curmudgeons lurking there have too much spare time on their hands. Thanks for letting me know, though  James ( T •  C ) • 10:47am • 23:47, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you're wrong about Australian English using "referenda" - people in all English-speaking countries have a preference for one or the other, but looking at official sources (which I would expect to follow the national trend), the Australian government seems to use referendums as its main designation (see the AEC website), and has a greater use of the term than "referenda" - search .gov.au for the two terms). Looking at the Australian media, referendums is again more common; the Australian prefers "ums" by 461 to 84, the Age by 1,450 to 342. Cheers, Number   5  7  10:37, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
 * My OED mentions that both are acceptable, without mentioning which is the preferred variant. However, school students are taught in Civics and Citizenship to use "referenda" as opposed to "referendums". This appears to be another case mixed messages.  James ( T •  C ) • 10:00pm • 11:00, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

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Invitation
Hi James,

In case you didn't know, on 23 November, the State Library is offering us a backstage pass and we are having an editathon afterwards. It would be great to see you there. This is the first time that an Australian cultural institution has opened its doors to us in this way and will be a great opportunity because the Library is providing: one of its best rooms; its expert curators (along with their expertise and their white gloves); a newly launched website (containing new resources); and of course, items from its collection (including rare and usually unavailable material) which we can look at, learn from, and use, to improve WP articles. For example, on the topic of WWI, the Library holds many diaries and manuscripts from the period. The topic is broad enough and the articles needing improvement are numerous enough, that there is sure to be something that appeals to you.

As you can see from the Library's project page, they have connected this editathon with their own work. They have already set out a wide range of resources to make things easier for us. Please sign up on the editathon project page if you would like to participate. Hope to see you there! Whiteghost.ink (talk) 01:46, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

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WikiProject Military history coordinator election
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Margie Abbott
Hi James.

Were you serious with this edit or were you just trolling? I mean, what can possibly explain your ridiculous assertion of "no relevance whatsoever"? --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  19:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
 * And are you being serious when you're telling me a whole paragraph on Tony Abbott's time in office is relevant to the article? Take a look at the article for Janette Howard and Thérèse Rein... all wives of former Prime Ministers and point out where in those articles there is a huge paragraph devoted to the political lives of their husbands. I'd suggest you take a good look at those articles, because clearly you don't understand the difference between biographical information and tangential anecdotes.  James ( T •  C ) • 1:50pm • 02:50, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * You seem to have a definite penchant for hyperbole. "Huge paragraph"?  Come on.
 * The difference is that he has only just become PM, and he is not yet well known internationally. The basic facts of what's occurred since he became leader are useful to an understanding of the story.  As I said, until and unless he had achieved this position, Margie Abbott would have no claim to notability.  As it is, she still doesn't really have notability in her own right, but it's long been accepted that the spouses of heads of government have a sort of "reflected notability" emanating from the heads.  That is the relevance of the small handful of basic political facts I provided, and not even all of them were about Tony Abbott, but also included mentions of Rudd and Gillard.
 * Had you perhaps argued for a more concise paragraph, I would have been disposed to considering it. But if you throw the baby out with the bathwater with your inflated over-exaggeration, not to mention persiflage and rhodomontade, you can expect the baby to not exactly go meekly into that good night, but to rage, RAGE, against the dying of the light.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  03:17, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, if she has no other claim to notability in her own right, she shouldn't have an article. That's not only unencyclopedic, it's piggybacking off their spouse's notability. Using that same logic, one could easily excuse writing an article about a little-known spouse of any notable individual.
 * You have already stated that without that paragraph, Margie Abbott would have no claim to notability. Your admission was all I needed. She does not satisfy the GNG and thus she should not have an article on Wikipedia. And that the paragraph contained mentions to Rudd and Gillard does not ameliorate its inclusion, that simply makes it more tangential.
 * Also, please do not accuse me of "hyperbole" and proceed to use unqualified phrases like "but it's long been accepted". Do you have any reference to that? I don't recall reading that in the GNG or the notability guidelines for politicians. When accusing someone of "persiflage and rodomontade", it would follow that you yourself would stop with the obfuscation and circumlocution. "[T]hrowing the baby out with the bathwater"? Come off it.  James ( T •  C ) • 2:41pm • 03:41, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * Would most of the people listed at Spouse of the Prime Minister of Australia qualify for their own articles if their other halves had not been who they were? In most cases, no.  Same for the overwhelming proportion of the people in Spouse of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, First Lady of the United States, and all the multitude of others in Category:Spouses of national leaders.  But the uncomfortable fact is we have all these hundreds of articles and categories.  What can possibly explain this?  Answer: There is an implicit consensus that these people become notable by virtue of their spouse's elevation to high office.


 * It's of course your right to argue against this. The last time it was tried for the Australians was in 2007 (see Talk: Spouse of the Prime Minister of Australia, which attracted zero interest.  See also some discussion at Talk:Tim Mathieson).  BTW, see also this discussion.  Cheers. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  04:58, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * And you have identified the problem, they have little notability in their own right. These articles should be deleted. Just because there is "implicit consensus" doesn't mean that policies and guidelines are to be ignored. You have failed to tell me where the GNG has changed to make such a concession. As such, those articles will all have to be sent to AfD unless they can be significantly improved such that they establish the subject as being notable in their own right.  James ( T •  C ) • 4:15pm • 05:15, 19 September 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm sure you know the way ahead. Be my guest.  --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:22, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

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October 2013 AFC Backlog elimination drive
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