User talk:MB/Archive 6

Disambiguation link notification for June 9
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Wilkin & Sons
Hi MB!, Just to let you know I cleared your citation style template, spent an hour trying to figure out what the editor was trying to achieve ~ and I added a primary source template ~ it looks better and at least its not so confusing ~ by the way nice to meet you ~ Mitchellhobbs (talk) 01:08, 12 June 2019 (UTC)

rmv ELs in text per MOS
Hello, I see that you removed several of my ELs in Suzy Williams at 18:30, 18 June 2019, and I'm trying to understand how I need to fix them so that they could hopefully be restored. Could you kindly direct me to where in the MOS to look what I need to do, maybe also give me some hints on how to do it? I took a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Linking, but I'm fairly new at this and have no idea what to do!

Or possibly I'm going at the task of including videos all wrong, and must upload the videos instead? --Dr.bobbs (talk) 01:41, 20 June 2019 (UTC)


 * , You are talking about "external links", links to places outside WP or it's related projects. In the MOS on linking, there is an "external links" section, and at the top it says the "main article" is WP:External links. That is what you want to look at. Basically, external links, that meet the criteria for inclusion, go in a separate section at the end of the article and are not embedded within the text of an article. MB 04:01, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the explanation! I will move all those links to a separate section at the end. --Dr.bobbs (talk) 14:13, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Julian W. Lucas orphan tag.
Hey there. So I linked Julian W. Lucas from the Wikipedia page of thirty seconds to Mars Rescue Me where it states Lucas was in the music video. Should the orphan tag be removed now? Thanks so much! Livewire123 (talk) 02:31, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , Yes, since there is now at least one incoming link, it is appropriate to remove the orphan tag. MB 02:37, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok great. Would you mind doing it? I honestly don’t know how. I’m pretty new with all of this.Livewire123 (talk) 02:40, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , you just edit the page and delete the entire template with that says orphan. Give it a try. Do a show preview to make sure it looks right and nothing else is messed up. And don't forget to sign messages on talk pages and use colons to indent as I did here. MB 02:45, 26 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Ok great. I believe I did it correctly. Thanks so much! Livewire123 (talk) 02:51, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for June 27
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New Page Review newsletter July-August 2019


Hello ,

More new features are being added to the feed, including the important red alert for previously deleted pages. This will only work if it is selected in your filters. Best is to 'select all'. Do take a moment to check out all the new features if you have not already done so. If anything is not working as it should, please let us know at NPR. There is now also a live queue of AfC submissions in the New Pages Feed. Feel free to review AfCs, but bear in mind that NPP is an official process and policy and is more important. Articles are still not always being checked thoroughly enough. If you are not sure what to do, leave the article for a more experienced reviewer. Please be on the alert for any incongruities in patrolling and help your colleagues where possible; report patrollers and autopatrolled article creators who are ostensibly undeclared paid editors. The displayed ORES alerts offer a greater 'at-a-glance' overview, but the new challenges in detecting unwanted new content and sub-standard reviewing do not necessarily make patrolling any easier, nevertheless the work may have a renewed interest factor of a different kind. A vibrant community of reviewers is always ready to help at NPR. The backlog is still far too high at between 7,000 and 8,000. Of around 700 user rights holders, 80% of the reviewing is being done by just TWO users. In the light of more and more subtle advertising and undeclared paid editing, New Page Reviewing is becoming more critical than ever. NPR is triage, it is not a clean up clinic. This move feature is not limited to bios so  you may have to slightly re-edit the text in the template before you save the move. Anything that is not fit for mainspace but which might have some promise can be draftified - particularly very poor English and machine and other low quality translations. Remember to use the message feature if you are just tagging an article for maintenance rather than deletion. Otherwise articles are likely to remain perma-tagged. Many creators are SPA and have no intention of returning to Wikipedia. Use the feature too for leaving a friendly note note for  the author of a first article you found well made or interesting. Many have told us they find such comments particularly welcoming and encouraging. Admins are now taking advantage of the new time-limited user rights feature. If you have recently been accorded NPR, do check your user rights to see if this affects you. Depending on your user account preferences, you may receive automated notifications of your rights changes. Requests for permissions are not mini-RfAs. Helpful comments are welcome if absolutely necessary, but the bot does a lot of the work and the final decision is reserved for admins who do thorough research anyway. School and academic holidays will begin soon in various places around the Western world. Be on the lookout for the usual increase in hoax, attack, and other junk pages.
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Texas Veterans Hall of Fame
I could really use some help with what I'm doing wrong with Texas Veterans Hall of Fame article. I'm on the board of the TVHOF... does that mean I can't edit the article? And I really don't get the COI templates. Gary J Hardy (talk) 01:15, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
 * , yes, users with a COI are strongly discouraged from editing articles with which they are connected. Have you read all the info in the "bluelinks" in the COI template that explain everything? MB 01:57, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Draft:Milen Manoj Earath
First of all I would like to thank you for taking your time in correcting the layouts and syntaxes of my draft. Really appreciate it. You had included a template about the lead section being too short. Do you mind to check if it's improved now? Appreciate your help, Thanking you, Refluxdonut (talk) 13:19, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
 * , I think it is still too short. It should summarize the whole article, so at least one more sentence about what he has done after age 14/where he is currently....


 * Also, it is not necessary to put citations in the lead if the same information is cited later in the article (which it should be since the lead is supposed to be a summary of the article and should not contain information which isn't found later in more detail). MB 13:35, 27 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your feedback. The draft was declined today with reviewer saying that it is more of a promotional work than an article ☹️ Need to work on it. Would you mind taking a look at the reviewer's feedback and give me some tips if possible?

Thanking you, Refluxdonut (talk) 22:16, 28 June 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello MB, hope you are doing fine. Would you mind taking a look at the lead section and see if the draft has improved if possible? Thank you, Yours Sincerely, Refluxdonut (talk) 11:41, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Rebeca Nuez Suarez
Hi MB, thanks to help me improving Rebeca Nuez Suarez article, I found the link to Las Palmas de Gran Canaria, and it is not an orphan article anymore, please if you can remove the orphan tag..., thanks, thanks --Miskito89 (talk) 16:55, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Arizona Miner
Hello! Your submission of Arizona Miner at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Warofdreams talk 12:17, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Need help editing a page
Hi could someone please help Me update this outdated page. The page in question is (EastBrook School) Wikipedia page.

I have been trying to update this page without much success i don’t know why it won’t work.

So If anyone can add this updated content I would really appreciate.

Here’s what I would like to be added to the page

Thank you in advance

Iceman2019 Iceman2019 (talk) 09:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)


 * , A infobox is to summarize key points, not list all details. For this reason, only top level people can be listed such as director, principal, head heacher. No vice-principal, assistants, etc. MB 20:41, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

DYK for William F. Turner
valereee (talk) 00:02, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I have unreviewed a page you curated
Hi, I'm Rosguill. I wanted to let you know that I saw the page you reviewed, New Story (charity), and have marked it as unpatrolled. If you have any questions, please ask them on my talk page. Thank you.

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

signed,Rosguill talk 01:50, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Discussion at User talk:Tyw7
You are invited to join the discussion at User talk:Tyw7. I received a message from an IP user regarding a page you asked for help nominating to AFD. Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 23:32, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

School article
Hello MB,

thank you very much for your improvements of the article about the Feodor-Lynen-Gymnasium Planegg in Germany. I very much appreciate it!!! My question: can you please go through the hole article in order to correct some language mistakes that are maybe still in article? That would be great!

Have a nice day!

Best regards, FEOteacher2019 (talk) 07:58, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for August 5
An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Arunachal University of Studies, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Namsai ([//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Arunachal_University_of_Studies check to confirm] | [//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Arunachal_University_of_Studies?client=notify fix with Dab solver]).

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Adding Orphan Tag in Bharathi Cement Article
Hi, I Added other article links in Bharathi Cement Article as per your request. I'm requesting to remove the Orphan tag and help me in improving the article.

--Thinkbreaker (talk) 12:49, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Sandra Day O'Connor House
— Maile (talk) 00:02, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Chronic pulmonary aspergillosis
Thanks for fixing the image on the infobox - I didn't know how! :) --— Cyclonenim | Chat 18:23, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Liberator Music
Hello MB. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Liberator Music, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Being part of a notable entity indicates importance/significance (WP:CCSI, WP:CCSI). Thank you. So Why  15:00, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

User MasterAju
I've opened an SPI here. I think you might be interested. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 09:18, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , yes. Why no mention at ANI? <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 18:38, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I forgot actually. I posted it now at ANI. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 07:56, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Arizona Miner
Hello! Your submission of Arizona Miner at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 21:45, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , Hello. Just wondering if you might take a look at this article and do whatever CEs you think are necessary. The reviewer feels I am using too much wording from the source, but I think that I have sufficient quotations where I have directly copied text. Another objective view would be helpful. Thanks. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 00:43, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Regarding John Chesnut in the Granby article
This family does not have a "t" in its name. This is the ancestor of Civil War General James Chesnut - whose wife, Mary Boykin Chesnut, wrote A Diary from Dixie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeraphinaMuse (talk • contribs) 15:27, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , Wikipedia relies on the verifibility of all infomation. What you know to be true is not sufficient. The source in the article spelled it Chestnut and that is what we have to use for now. But if you can find an WP:Reliablesource to confirm a different spelling, please add that to the article. Thank you for trying to improve the article. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 15:39, 30 August 2019 (UTC)


 * Hello, again! I am so sorry - I tried to add a reference and change this, but it's not being published.  I am not sure what I am doing incorrectly, but the reference itself can be found here: http://www.historysoft.com/granby/GRANBY%207_07_16.pdf - page 25.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by SeraphinaMuse (talk • contribs) 18:30, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , I have fixed the errors with the ref (it needed a url and had to be invoked up in the text. All working now. Thanks for your contribution. I hope you edit more often. (Also don't forget to indent (with the colon character) in talk page discussions to show who is saying what, and sign talk page edits also as I have done here. If you forget, a bot usually will do add your signature but it is better to do it yourself in the same edit. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 20:19, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Arizona Miner
— Maile (talk) 12:02, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Weaver Mountain
Hi, you created this redirect pointing to itself as the target. I'm assuming this isn't intentional? ansh. 666 20:52, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
 * , thanks for pointing that out. All fixed now. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 20:54, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

DYK nomination of George Bangs
Hello! Your submission of George Bangs at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 19:02, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

You emailed me?
I got a notification you'd emailed me. Thanks, because it illuminated a problem with my phone. Apparently it's sick. I cannot access my email and won't be able to until I can access a computer. I saw it involved a Meridian High School. If you could point me to which Meridian High School, I'll be happy to take a look. John from Idegon (talk) 19:50, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , there is really no urgency. It would probably be better to wait until you can access the email. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 20:21, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It might be a while. Next week looks crazy. John from Idegon (talk) 20:22, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * , I assume you eventually read the email and since I haven't heard anything then you have nothing to say. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 02:00, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

DYK for George Bangs
valereee (talk) 00:01, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

Submissions for The 10,000 Challenge of WikiProject Canada
The 10,000 Challenge of WikiProject Canada is approaching its third anniversary. You are receiving this message because you participated in previous years of the challenge but have not yet submitted any article improvements for this year. Please consider submitting any Canada-related articles you have created or improved, ensuring that all submissions are sourced with formatted citations and have no unsourced claims. Barnstars will be awarded to participating editors in November.

You may use the above button to submit entries, or go the challenge page at WP:CAN10K for more information. Thank-you, and please spread the word to those you know who might be interested in joining this effort to improve the quality of Canada-related articles.

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) on behalf of Reidgreg (talk) and WP:CAN10K, 21:03, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

USD is not money in Kansas articles
Thanks for fixing issues in Peabody, Kansas article, but USD 398 is not money. In Kansas based articles, USD typically means "United School District". If you use automated tools, then please validate what they do before saving the article. • Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 09:14, 1 October 2019 (UTC)


 * , thanks for mentioning this. I never ran across this before. I know of places were USD means "Unified School District", but even though there is a associated number it is almost never used - the common name is the location, e.g. PUSD for Prescott Unified School District. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 20:53, 1 October 2019 (UTC)


 * It's kind of a mix of things in Kansas. All Kansas school districts are officially numbered, per this map, but some larger cities use other alias names too. For example, "Wichita Public Schools" is commonly used but it is still USD 259 too; smaller cities tend to include a number in their school district names.  This list article uses a better universal naming format, which is sometimes used to name school districts, format is " USD ", such as "Wichita USD 259", but the name on the left can be anything from a single city name (Abilene USD 435) or more than one city name (Peabody-Burns USD 398) or a county name (Chase County USD 284) or any other text (Remington USD 206) or (Thunder Ridge USD 110).  Anyway, no matter which of these is correct, my original point is that in Kansas articles "USD " could be a school district instead of money. •  Sbmeirow  •  Talk  • 04:06, 2 October 2019 (UTC)

Clyde Wahrhaftig
Thanks for the fixes to Clyde Wahrhaftig. Could you tell me what the change is with page numbers (e.g., 4-6)? I guess there's different types of hyphens (?) (although there only seems to be one on my keyboard?). Thanks. Finney1234 (talk) 01:36, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * see WP:DASH <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 01:51, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Margarita Zhukova
The photo used was the photo from the Russian Page about her. Please place the photo back — Preceding unsigned comment added by Craboid (talk • contribs) 03:11, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , the image in an infobox should "illustrate the topic specifically". This image was not of the subject of the article and is therefore inappropriate. See MOS:LEADIMAGE. Policies used on other sites are not relevant here. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 03:17, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

My Suicide Story
Hi,

You fixed the infobox on this page previously and I was wondering if you could lend a hand in making the episode list fit in the space to the left of the infobox. Currently, it's sits below the infobox, while the title "episdoes" remains at the top. Any help is much appreciated! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hidden Hills Editor (talk • contribs) 16:12, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

Nicolas Alahverdian
I hope you don’t mind that I removed the orphan tag from the article as I have linked it from other pages. Thank you for your assistance with this article. Perhaps it is time to close the deletion discussion? SVUKnight (talk) 17:21, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * , it is correct to remove an orphan tag if it is no longer an orphan. As far as the deletion discussion, that is closed usually after seven days by an uninvolved party based on the comments made there. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 17:30, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Cheers MB. It has been over seven days according to what I saw a moment ago. Is there a way to ask for the review since it’s been over seven days? Over to you, thx. SVUKnight (talk) 17:36, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * , it will be closed when a volunteer gets to it. It may take a few hours or a day or two. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 17:48, 20 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I understand. Would you mind voting one way or the other on the article? I think your opinion whether it is keep or delete would be appreciated. Thank you SVUKnight (talk) 17:55, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Hey
Just a heads up, but I wanted to let you know that the contrast of your signature against Wikipedia's standard white background is low enough to (potentially) cause readability issues for folks with visual disabilities. AddWitty NameHere  09:15, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Mojo (advertising)
had been hijacked. Hijacking reverted. I expect I'll block the hijacker.--  Deep fried  okra    07:46, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Jedediah Sanger
Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Gravity Noir
Thank you for your help and clean up to Gravity Noir. Really appreciated.--Trix18365 (talk) 09:34, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

STOP
using whatever script/bot you are using to disruptively edit war, without any attempt at discussion. &#x222F; <b style="color:#070">WBG</b> converse 11:43, 30 November 2019 (UTC)


 * , I have been using AWB to clean-up various article (fixing layout, formatting, spelling errors, etc.) It also adds tags including "Orphan" and "Uncategorized". I have been selecting articles that will appear on the main page in DYK or linked from their hooks, as well as new articles. I can certainly run the same article multiple times, and if an editor has restored a problem in the interim, I will fix it again without realizing it is re-doing a change. In this particular case, I'm not sure why you removed the tag when the article was still an orphan. I can just guess you don't think that is an issue worth noting with a banner message on the article, but it is common practice. According to Category:Orphaned articles from November 2019, there were about 1400 articles tagged this month alone. I went ahead and added a link to 1990 Bijnor riot so this won't happen again, unless someone removes the link of course. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 20:27, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Belgrave, Leicester
Hi MB- I'm contacting you because I saw your edits on the Belgrave, Leicester article. There is a disruptive "new" user at work there, I'm guessing a sockpuppet of a repeat problem editor, who is edit-warring there. The most recent batch of edits includes a huge, unattributed copy-paste from a British history website, accompanied by a deceptive edit summary. I wanted to revert this batch of edits, but that could constitute a 3RR violation on my part, so I thought I'd seek your help. If you agree with my assessment of this editors activities, would you be comfortable reverting the edits? Thanks in advance, and please let me know if you think my request to you might somehow not be in keeping with policy. Eric talk 17:46, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * , I'm too busy right now to do much. I took a quick look at it does appear the history website is not free to use. I threw a tag on the article; that should attract someone to investigate further. You can remove yourself per WP:NOT3RR exemption to vandalism/copyright vio  if you are sure about it. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 19:37, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks very much for your help and input! You just answered the very question I was wondering about. Eric talk 20:09, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Orphan tag regarding the article Rajdweep
I've linked various articles to the article Rajdweep. Is it still orphan? parthsar129 06:33, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have removed the tag. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 13:09, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

Joe Massa nominated for deletion
Hi MB, you have helped me in the past and I was wondering if you could lend your opinion on a page that I created for a filmmaker that was nominated for deletion. I was able to find several sources on google that directly pertained to the subject, but another user nominated it for deletion saying that the sources are not strong enough, even though the subject is mentioned in every one of them. Not sure if you could weigh in here or even if this is something you do, but any help would be greatly appreciated. Cheers! Hidden Hills Editor (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:53, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Fred Thomas (athlete)
Gatoclass (talk) 01:03, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Villa Toeplitz (Varese)
Hello, I was wondering if we could remove the orphan tag from the Villa Toeplitz page. We have already fixed the links in it. Thank you for your assistance with it, we really appreciate. LIUCGroup5SF (talk) 14:03, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Barbara Lazaroff
Hi MB --

Just FYI, I have no personal or professional relationship with Ms. Lazaroff, we've never met or spoken. I am friends with the other recent contributor to the article, LAcontrib, who asked me to assist with wikitext markup and to help with making the article a good one. It's easy for me to be objective about the subject and her milieu.

Your first round of edits removed all EL from the body of the article, which I was doing as well only less quickly. There are now none; all ELs are in citations or External Links.

Your three issues are stylistic, in the small and large. I believe I've addressed them, but please let me know if you agree or not.

I don't see that this article is at all promotional in the commercial sense. It is an account of Mr. Lazaroff, her career and accomplishments, and just presenting those facts paints a fairly favorable portrait of her.

There were a few peacock terms and loose glowing phrases, but I think the language used now is straightforward.

I've saved the first listed issue for last -- your statement that it "reads like a resumé". The article has 3 lists, in the Awards section. The rest of the body is just text, and recounts facts, with citations to substantiate broad statements as well as details. For comparison, consider Wolfgang_Puck, which has its share of lists (with content overlapping Barbara_Lazaroff.

Thanks, Twangist (talk) 00:12, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi MB: I am the person who put some of the flowery language there. They were words used in multiple articles about the subject. My apologies; I'm new at this. I look forward to getting the hang of this and being able to do more for Wikipedia. I also didn't realize that external links weren't ok to use. I'd thought them to be good things. However, I didd wonder about target="blank" -- so now I know. Much appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LAcontrib (talk • contribs) 10:15, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

If you have an opinion
Regarding the AfD discussion, of this article that you've edited. plese feel free and stop in and express it. Cheers. 67.167.8.141 (talk) 05:19, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

DYK for I-17 Mystery Christmas Tree
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:04, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Anthem Christmas tree
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 12:01, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

Happy New Year MB!
<div style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em; font-family: Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif;float:right;margin-bottom:20px;margin-right:10px">Happy New Year! Hello MB: Thanks for all of your contributions to improve the encyclopedia for Wikipedia's readers, and have a happy and enjoyable New Year! Cheers, Donner60 (talk) 23:33, 27 December 2019 (UTC) Send New Year cheer by adding {{subst:Happy New Year fireworks (static)}} to user talk pages with a friendly message.

DYK for Priestly's Hydraulic Ram
&mdash; Amakuru (talk) 00:01, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

infobox fields
, I don't believe I've interacted with you before, but have seen your comments around many policy discussions, so maybe you can answer this. I am a frequent infobox editor. I have thought for a long time that I read in the documentation for some common bio infobox that citizenship/nationality should not be used if they don't differ from country of birth. I have been routinely removing them when they are redundant. I find that they are commonly used probably to express pride in the country, or by new editors who think they should use every infobox parameter possible. I have never received any pushback on this (although some could have been quietly added back in). I recently noticed in some infobox examples used in that nationality was used (unnecessarily). I started this discussion and there was no objection. Before going ahead and making the documentation change, I looked for equivalent guidance at and found it doesn't exactly say what I remembered.

What is says there isn't entirely clear. It says don't use both citizenship and nationality unless they differ, don't use citizenship even if it differs from nationality if citizenship can be inferred from birth place. It more confusingly says nationality may be used instead of citizenship if helpful to avoid confusion while also implying nationality is usually used.

It never says skip both if they can be inferred from birth place. In usage, I see a lot of infoboxes that don't specify nationality and a lot that do. If I had to guess, maybe 50/50 (of the 90% of all bio infoboxes where nationality/citizenship is the same as birth place). So, to your knowledge has this been discussed before? If not, does it need to be? Or is it consistent enough with existing infobox guidelines (infoboxes are for key info) that I could boldly make this doc change and see if anyone cares?

To clarify, I don't want to open any can-of-worms about UK/English or any other such allegiance topic. Just the routine case of Joe Blow is born in Paris, we don't need to say he is French in the infobox (the first sentence of the article will probably say "Joe Blow is a French author" anyway). <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 03:43, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
 * "I find that they are commonly used probably to express pride in the country, or by new editors who think they should use every infobox parameter possible." Yes, I think both of those are correct, and any push-back you get is likely to be inspired mostly by the former.  I agree that the documentation is slightly confusing. I think it's a "palimpsestuous" oversight, a result of multiple editors tweaking the documentation over time without necessarily thinking it all through across multiple templates or even being aware of multiple consensus discussions shifting how we do infoboxes over the years.  I think it would be fine to clarify that nationality and citizenship should be left out if inferred from birthplace, while retaining the advice to not use both, if they're redundant with each other, when using one of them for good reason.  That is: usually birthplace is enough. Sometimes either nationality or citizenship may be useful to add when there's a mismatch, and it's usually nationality unless there's some very good reason to be legalistic about it. Only in rare cases will all three parameters be needed.  I can't even think of an example. Maybe if Alex Pagulayan had been born abroad, e.g. in the UK, raised in the Philippines and establishing his adult career there, then taking on Canadian citizenship in later adulthood?  He was born and raised in the Philippines, though.  Anyway, it's probably worthwhile for the docs to explicitly say that in complex cases it is generally better to explain the matter in the prose of the article, not try to summarize it in the infobox.  This has been said many times before about any complex scenario, in all the debates about infoboxes over the years. The consensus for this was so strong that we ended up removing the religion and ethnicity parameters from most infoboxes because they're simply too often too complex for infoboxing and are prone to generating more heat than light. Any birth/nationality/citizenship disagreement that also leads to raucous dispute is obviously a case for detailed explanation, not infoboxing (lest we start removing even more i-box parameters).  All that said, if people object to your bold revision in the docs, then, yeah, it'll need to be hashed out.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:15, 5 December 2019 (UTC)


 * , Thanks for the feedback. Since this doesn't pertain to a specific infobox, the best place for it is MOS:INFOBOX. Before I slip this in as section 5.3, do you think this is good:

Nationality & Citizenship
Most biography infoboxes have nationality and citizenship. Generally, use of either should be avoided when the country to which the subject belongs can be inferred from the country of birth, as specified with birthplace=. When needed, for example, due to change of nationality after birth, dual "citizenship", or other unusual scenarios, use nationality= unless citizenship= is more appropriate due uncommon legal reasons. Use of nationality and citizenship simultaneously should rarely if ever be necessary (complex cases should be explained in the article prose). Neither field should be used to specify ethnicity.


 * If this sticks, then I can update the documentation on various infoboxes to refer to it rather than repeating it in multiple places. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 04:43, 6 December 2019 (UTC)


 * , there is now a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Infoboxes. <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 01:23, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Something like that would work, though "country to which the subject belongs" is awkward. I'll follow up at the WT:MOSINFOBOX page.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:27, 11 December 2019 (UTC)


 * The discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Infoboxes has died. Should we do something to get more people involved? <b style="color:#00FF00">MB</b> 02:50, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Opened an RfC on it, as a subsection.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  13:31, 2 January 2020 (UTC)