User talk:MH1971

O'Neill picture
Did you by chance forget to sign in before re-reverting my addition of the dumpster-with-shamrocks picture to O'Neill, Nebraska, or was this somebody else's edit? I'm assuming that it was you, because you made a couple of such reverts not long before, and because, alas, not that many people are paying attention to the O'Neill article.

If you were the anonymous editor, I'm sure that it was an accident, but you want to be careful&mdash;it's a bit of a Wikisolecism to do controversial edits from both your named account and from an anonymous IP address, the sort of thing that leads to accusations of WP:SOCK.

Also, please note that I put a justification for my use of the picture on the article's talk page. In keeping with the collaborative spirit of WP, let's discuss the matter there instead of just exchanging reverts.

Looking forward to further correspondence&mdash;

--Ammodramus (talk) 13:52, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that was me. I did not have access to my password at that computer and did not think there would be the slightest doubt as to who deleted it.

As to the photo, I've looked at many small town pages. None of them have dumpsters. I see that you've made dozens of edits to various Nebraska towns and only placed a trash receptacle on one. And you put it front and center. I assumed, and still work under the assumption, that this was a deliberate provocation aimed at either the town in general or just because you do not think anybody is paying attention. This is much closer to the "by asian unicorns seeking religous tolerance" that you deleted from another locality's page than, for example, the photo of the Kincaid building you added after I objected to the dumpster.

That is the reason that I never attempted to talk or explain my removal of the picture. Since Electroshoxcure wanted it replaced instead of dumped, I'm getting a picture to replace it. It may take a few days, since I don't like what I have and am seeing to getting somebody with a better eye to take a photo. However, after I add another photo or two, I see no reason to not remove any photo of a trash container. MH1971 (talk) 00:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I hope I'm not coming across as scolding or reproachful, because that's certainly not my intent. I've inadvertently made anonymous edits myself, although in my case it was a matter of forgetting to sign in rather than not having my password.  Happily, in that case it was a non-controversial edit.


 * Again, I'm trying to avoid any suggestion of reproach, but see WP:FAITH. I think you were too quick to assume that the inclusion of the dumpster photo was meant as a cheap shot at the city&mdash;a sort of "O'Neill, City of Dumpsters" comment.


 * As I indicated on the talk page, it wasn't meant that way at all. My reasoning was that I thought the O'Neill illustration should reflect its "Irish Capital of Nebraska" title: thus something with a shamrock or a harp or the like.  I really would've liked to get a picture of the Big Shamrock, as I said; and the next time I pass through town, I might ask the people in the Golden Hotel if they'll let me take a picture from an upper window.  I didn't have that opportunity on this trip because the light was fading fast&mdash;if you look at some of the pictures in Commons:Category:Holt County Courthouse (Nebraska), you'll see that the sun was already lighting the north side of the building.


 * I didn't want to use a picture of an individual Irish-named or -themed business like an Irish pub or the Shamrock Laundromat, since that doesn't necessarily reflect the whole city&mdash;for all I know, there are Irish pubs in places like Wilber and Oakland and Loup City. The same went for one of the shamrock-shaped address plaques: there's no way to tell from a picture that it's not one person's or business's individual Hibernian fixation.  (I'm also somewhat reluctant to use individal businesses because it suggests spam.)


 * It came down to the water-tower or the dumpster. The shamrocks on the former are fairly small compared to the structure as a whole (and to the big "O" on it).  Moreover, a tall narrow picture like the tower would've pushed the bottom border of the infobox way down on the page.


 * That left the dumpster. As I said, I didn't read it as a "City of Trash" comment; to me, it conveyed the message that O'Neill's Irish identity pops out at you from all over the place, even where you're not expecting it.


 * You're right that I've never used a trash-container photo to illustrate a Nebraska city article. However, this is because litter-barrels and dumpsters and the like generally don't reflect an interesting component of the city's character or heritage.  If I found Polish eagles painted on the litter barrels in Loup City, or Viking ships in Dannebrog, or red Swedish horses in Wausa, I'd certainly consider using a photo of one.


 * By all means, replace the picture if you get a better one. As I said, a shot of the Big Shamrock from the top of the Golden Hotel would be a good one, particularly since it's mentioned in the article.  I think it ought to reflect the commnity's Irish identity; and I'll object if it smacks too much of spam ("Flannery's Irish Pub offers a wide range of drink specials...")  I'd urge you to avoid a generic Main Street shot: I've had to use those all too often in illustrating Nebraska towns, and I'm always on the lookout for something more unique to the community.


 * Also, if pictures are being taken, the O'Neill post office is listed in the National Register of Historic Places, and it'd be really great to have some pictures of it. I've got photos of the courthouse, the Golden Hotel, and the Kinkaid building in Commons:Category:National Register of Historic Places in Holt County, Nebraska; but the post office faces east, and the light was exactly wrong when I was passing through town.  If you've got photos, but you're not clear on the details of uploading them to Wikimedia Commons, or of categorizing them once they're there, drop me a line: I've been working hard at photographing NRHP sites in Nebraska, and I'd be glad to help.  If you get some good photos of the post office, use one of them to illustrate National Register of Historic Places listings in Nebraska.


 * OK. If verbosity is proof of good faith, I don't suppose you can have any doubts left about mine...


 * --Ammodramus (talk) 01:59, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes. No more doubts about good faith. I was too quick to set that aside. No long before, I'd deleted a cheap high school football-related crack and I was not in a receptive mood. MH1971 (talk) 03:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * I sympathize&mdash;as you noted, I recently spent time stepping on the chump who insisted on putting the magic-unicorns stuff on Banner County, Nebraska, and the experience undoubtedly left me a bit short-fused.


 * Will be watching for your pictures. Unfortunately, I only pass through O'Neill once or twice a year, so it'll be a while before I can take more of my own.


 * --Ammodramus (talk) 10:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)


 * My inability to cross the Elkhorn downstream from Atkinson recently forced me to take an unscheduled detour through O'Neill. Since I was there in the morning, photographed the post office; and shot the Big Shamrock out of Moses P. Kinkaid's office window.  In keeping with the plan proposed above, I've used that as the main illustration for O'Neill, Nebraska, and have moved the Kinkaid building picture down by the notable-residents section, where Kinkaid's mentioned.


 * I'm not altogether satisfied with the shamrock picture: I'd have preferred to catch it while the paint was still fairly unworn and unfaded. If you can scour up a camera in late March...


 * --Ammodramus (talk) 05:24, 17 June 2010 (UTC)