User talk:MMetro

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Moved from User Page November 8, 2007
You seem to have forgot more than I know about the Vincent Chin case. I never met anyone with as much knowledge as you. I would like to send you my email address so that you can contact me.

Sure. The Ronald Ebens talk page was getting too crowded. My name is Michael.... MMetro 08:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay. So what cases stick out in your mind as defining moments in Detroit. Mine are the Hayward Brown killings, Vincent chin, Malice Green, Joanne Was.... I selected those cases because they made people move out of the city and made people living in the suburbs feel threatened going into the city. I mean a murder is a murder, but when people feel robbed of justice it has an effect on the whole city.JButera 04:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

To me, J Was was on too far on the late end to have an effect. Green's only concern was Rodney King deja vu. The 1967 riot is often mentioned, but the 1943 riot was more race on race. '67 just cannibalised Black neighborhoods. Tommie Lee was shot at the Bow Wah restaurant in August 1976. Almost everyone must have thought moving Chinatown was a bad idea by that point. That Lodge Freeway kidnapping rape, the girl found in Cobo Hall, and the Oakland County Child Killer are my shockers. The first two were associated with places everybody used, the last, although not within Detroit, took away its suburbs as a bastion of safety. I'll be moving this talk over to my discussion page, pretty soon, per Wikipedia guidelines. MMetro 14:01, 4 November 2007 (UTC) Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MMetro"

Vincent Chin Sources
Hi. MMetro. You said: "Dude, do you have a REAL source for what you're saying when you get that far off NPOV? Cite your source or remove your comments. I'm putting too much serious work on the page to have it vandalized by some ranter. There are severe contradictions between the court record and the Asian American articles (none has ever mentioned the 1989 hearing) and you're not helping! MMetro 21:29, 8 September 2007 (UTC)"

FYI: when you want to leave a message for someone, please put it on their discussion page, not their user page. I have moved your comments to the correct page. Also: My info is from the documentary "Who Killed Vincent Chin?" However, I didn't say anything about a 1989 hearing, so if that's the point you don't like, you'll need to find out who said it. I didn't "rant" or "vandalize", just made some grammatical changes, and added a few factoids from the movie. Please do not use terms like that when communicating with other Wikipedia writers. Politeness should be maintained. I didn't say anything about the court record or any Asian American articles, either. For that matter, nothing I said was an NPOV violation. What relevance does my being from or not from Detroit have? QuizzicalBee 22:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Reply
Thank you for moving my comments to the proper place. I just clicked on the name and hoped the message would reach you. Due to the length of your revisions, I believed you to be revising in good faith, but without citation, and rather than revert your efforts, I wanted to have this discussion.

It's important to properly cite rather than just putting the edits in, especially if you're gonna insert, "Ebens vowed to not hold a job" into the middle of my discussion of the civil suit. I don't know where he said that in the film, but such a soundbyte contradicts the $200 min/month before and the 1989 hearing following your insert.

If you've followed the page, you'll know that I had difficulty removing the fancypants.jpg, because someone else on the internet thought it looked right, but the original poster never properly verified that it was. One little mistake, and it's perpetuated until people believe it's the truth, because nobody says otherwise, and that's why I'm saying otherwise.

In this case, you're quoting a 20-year old movie without properly saying so, and the 20-year old movie has no information on a hearing that happened 2 years after, or the renewal of the civil suit 10 years later. Even now, most new articles are just rehashing the info from before, citing them, not bothering with updates, and perpetuating errors.

For instance, the Kaufman quote: "You make the punishment fit the criminal." Kaufman never said it, he wrote it in a two page response letter to ACJ, after the point in which he could have done anything to change the outcome. But it's spun as if he said that as he was passing sentence, when in actual transcripts, the prosecutor never showed up, the defense cited that Vincent started the physical altercation and did everything possible to put Ebens and Nitz in the best possible light. Without anyone to say otherwise, what was the judge to do? He was legally obligated to pass an individualized sentence, went through the usual motions, and created an error of impunity.

Rather than explaining the situation (which was legally quite hopeless due to a Michigan Supreme Court decision that occurred two weeks after sentencing), ACJ needed something on their press release to persuade further action, and that how's the quote became what everyone remembers about Judge Kaufman, because everybody quoted ACJ and how they said it.

So to be truly NPOV, we need the real facts: what Ebens said in the film, in the Michael Moore interview, the 1989 hearing, and anything else since then. It's still subject to change. In 1989, Ebens was counting on getting his job back, but that didn't happen. Even Helen Zia in her 2000 book failed to mention the 1989 hearing or anything after. She rehashed her The Nation article from the 80's, and failed to check for updates.

Anyway, I'm trying to provide a real understanding of what happened. It's a lot of work, I need exhaustive citation because whenever I post, I have to deal with reverts, so I hope you understand my frustrations. If you were in Detroit, there'd be access to more resources: plentiful microfilm of the Detroit News and Free Press, ACJ's archive at U-M Ann Arbor, court records at the City-County Bldg. and Federal Courthouse, etc. If you're elsewhere, like anyone else you're probably relying on secondary sources, and need to beware if they are relying on a secondary source where the purpose was to persuade over inform, or if what was said is outdated.

If you are still interested in serious contribution to the Wikipedia article, I suggest getting a hold of Paul Weingarten's Chicago Tribune article, "Deadly Encounter" 7/31/83, and summarizing it for the State Criminal Charges subsection. The detailed chronology of 82-273374 Mich vs. Ebens and Nitz is much better than any Asian .org webpages currently cited in the Vincent Chin entry. Type wherever you need the footnote. MMetro 08:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * You raise good concerns. I attempted to rent Who Killed Vincent Chin? to refresh my memory, but I can't find it anywhere, shockingly enough. I'll revert the things I attributed to the movie, and see about getting ahold of the Trib article and summarizing it.
 * I can certainly sense your frustration, and I'm glad you are being so vigilant in making this page as accurate and detailed as possible.
 * Oh, and when replying to someone's comment, it's usually good to put the reply on their talk page rather than your own, because it's easier for them to notice--as you have no doubt seen, one gets a big notification of a change on one's own talk page, but a change on someone else's page can only be seen if you're checking your watchlist regularly.

QuizzicalBee 13:43, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Metro! I just saw your note. I hope you are doing alright. Sincerely, ~jbutera JButera —Preceding undated comment added 10:45, 23 January 2012 (UTC).

About rehearsal letters
In regards to the article on rehearsal letters, do you feel that there is some information the contributors to that article have neglected to provide? Some questions to which they ought to give the answers? Robert Happelberg 23:15, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think a picture would be the most helpful in clarifying this. I've added a request to Requested pictures. If you're practicing Beethoven's "Moonlight" Sonata, I doubt you will have any need for rehearsal letters and the score won't give you any anyway. But if you play the piano part in Mozart's G minor Quartet for Piano and Strings, you might rehearsal letters are the best thing since sliced bread. Robert Happelberg 22:41, 12 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It would be no problem for me to scan in the Mozart. But I'd want to make sure that it's legal for me to do so. Scanning a Bärenreiter edition would definitely be verboten, I don't know right now if scanning C. F. Peters would be. Robert Happelberg 23:16, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Replied at your talk page... MMetro 10:51, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

About the Yorktown Edit
Of course, I apologise if my message in the edit bar (if viewable) seemed out of order, as I myself, believe it was. When I see articles on the War of 1812 or the American Revolution being edited to the extent where it would seem to people that there were something like 50,000 BRITISH troops on the continent, it comes across to myself as patriots editing the article who believe what they hear.

Again, apologies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trip Johnson (talk • contribs) 19:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

-Just one word .... thankyou. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Trip Johnson (talk • contribs) 12:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: I Saw Her Standing There
No worries. I had the Free as A Bird single to hand so it was no problem. Pawnkingthree (talk) 18:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of MI-5 Persecution
Please do not make personal attacks. Wikipedia has a strict policy against personal attacks. Attack pages and images are not tolerated by Wikipedia and are speedily deleted. Users who continue to create or repost such pages and images in violation of our biographies of living persons policy will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. Thank you.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding  to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Chris (talk) 20:33, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Noted, and replied on your page. MMetro (talk) 20:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, more info. Cheers,  Dloh  cierekim  22:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ADlohcierekim&diff=181724180&oldid=181669347 Thanks for the note. Still not sure he meets notability, but you never now till you try. Cheers,  Dloh  cierekim  22:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Lists, and Shine
I've been alright, thanks. My day job has been consuming more of my off-time than usual lately. Thanks for reminding me about Shine; it's a film which I've actually seen, and I'd like to think that the holes in my lists are films which I haven't seen. I'll try to give more thought to your suggestion about the categories, but for now I can't make any promises on that. Robert Happelberg (talk) 22:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't have any leads on that movie about the woman whose real father is a jazz musician. I tried Google, which was uncharacteristically unhelpful. A Netflix search gave me results like Metamophosis: The Alien Factor and Metamorphosis: Ghost Chronicles 1984-2004. Robert Happelberg (talk) 22:21, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Sophocles
I'll put the text here shortly. You'll see that as well as the spammy style, there are no independent refs, and therefore notability issues. When you are ready, just recreate in article space, I don't think the page is protected jimfbleak (talk) 06:37, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The sophocles urls can be taken out, what you need is independent sources for notability to be established. jimfbleak (talk) 13:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

"to developers"
On the Rocketboom article, I reverted the change you made. It appears that the NYT talked about a different event than the engadget source, the video ipod would only have had assistance of developers, while the engadget one would have had the assistance of the people that you listed. --Enric Naval (talk) 18:15, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


 * No problem, Just trying for consensus before an edit war erupts. Andrew doesn't want Rocketboom disparaged, but he uses hyperbolic phrases whenever he tries to correct things. If I know you'll make the change, I can hold off. You have a better grasp of the source material. MMetro (talk) 18:56, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

AfD nomination of MI-5 Persecution
I have nominated MI-5 Persecution, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Articles for deletion/MI-5 Persecution. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Guy (Help!) 11:19, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Rocketboom
Might I trouble you to take a look at the current talk page for Rocketboom? I don't know what to do and the personal attacks are disheartening. Cleanr (talk) 19:35, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Found this link regarding archiving the talk page but I'm not sure where to delineate old from new given the situation. Probably best if someone else does it. I'm going to stay away for a few days. Cleanr (talk) 20:20, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

KFC
Several Grawp vandals began mass-moving pages to vandalised names. Grawp is a vandal from Encyclopedia Dramatica, who is infamous here for moving pages to variants of "Hagger?", but he has his followers who do the same. He often targets high-profile articles, but it's quick to revert; see my move log for today! Best, PeterSymonds (talk)  12:13, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Indiana Jones WikiProject Now Open!
I have finally created a WikiProject for Indiana Jones! Check it out. -- MISTER ALCOHOL  TC 21:30, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Jwein
This is his first vandalism warning, and it was a level 3. I think that's sufficient for now, but I'll keep my eye on him. – ClockworkSoul 03:28, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

The Bone Conduction Music Show
Re your note on Bearcat's talk page: there isn't a debate page because this is a "PROD" (PROposed Deletion), not an AfD (Articles for Deletion). As it says, you can just remove the PROD tag: "You may remove this message if you improve the article or otherwise object to deletion for any reason." (but you should leave an edit comment explaining your reasons). If Bearcat or anyone else still wants to delete the page it would then have to go to AfD, and the notice saying so would include a link to the discussion. Hope that clarifies! PamD (talk) 08:00, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

The Bone Conduction Music Show
I'm sorry... I don't know Detroit radio as well as its television stations, and i don't get WEMU-FM 89.1 where i am, due to distance and it being blocked by WPHS-FM 89.1 and WBLD-FM 89.3... I've never heard of this program either. I don't think bearcat's trying to be malicious, but rather trying to enforce the Notability Guidelines for Wikipedia. If the article is improved sufficiently and given sources (such as the Metro Detroit and Ann Arbor newspapers you've stated earlier), then it probbaly will not be deleted. RingtailedFox • Talk • Contribs 21:07, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Mike Corely previous editions
Regarding this recent comment made at The Corley Conspiracy, depending on what you meant by, "if it had one continuous history, rather than three separate attempts" if you have any reason to believe that certain revisions of the Mike Corley article that existed before the most recent recreation contained beneficial content that could be used to improve the state of the current article, you can go to Deletion review to request an admin to restore previous instances (with history) to your userpage. Not very much is ever truly deleted from Wikipedia, just hidden. Just thought you might like to know, happy editing! -Verdatum (talk) 21:43, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Detroit
Thanks for the clearup on the meaning of the name! Safebreaker (talk) 12:13, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Wuhu Island
Thanks for the "thanks" and description on my talk page. It makes me sorry that I don't agree with you on Wuhu Island having its own article, but at the same time, you seem to be working pretty hard on it, so perhaps you'll find info that'll prove me wrong. Most of the time I'm more of a person who gets rid of vandalism or unsourced claims, so I don't know how much I'll help with fleshing the article out if it is kept, but at the same time I'm not the type usually to put things up to AFD, so it's not like you have to worry about me doing that. Sergecross73  msg me   23:21, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
Nathan2055talk-review 21:19, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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