User talk:Mabuska/Archive 42011/February

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If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. HJ Mitchell &#124;  Penny for your thoughts?   00:51, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


 * Many thanks. Mabuska (talk) 00:59, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Your edit
Not sure here, did you mean to readd the word major? Gnevin (talk) 21:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Nope. I mean the usage of the phrase "became the major" is highly subjective unless its backed up by the relevant sources. I do think you may have went overboard on the citation needed tags though. Mabuska (talk) 14:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Onetonycousins wants them so I've added them and per the article talk page I will be removing them shortly unless improvements are made Gnevin (talk) 16:57, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No probs. Mabuska (talk) 22:28, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Tullyhogue
I noticed that you have added a fact-tag a while ago to the Irish name given here. There are plenty of references available that the middle Irish name was Tulach Óc, including one cited from Tullyhogue Fort. Not sure if that helps if it is the (presumably) modern form Tulaigh Óg that needs verification, just thought I'd mention it. All the best, Finn Rindahl (talk) 17:21, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt its correct, but the IMoS in regards to place origins requires sources just to back up the spelling and the meaning as there are at times conflicting spellings and meanings given in sources. The modern Irish form is fine for the infobox, however the lede should have the middle Irish form you provided as the English name would more or less be derived from it rather than the modern Irish spelling. Mabuska (talk) 13:32, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough the cite for the Irish name in Tullyhogue Fort doesn't backup the Irish name given. It backs up the meaning, but it gives a different spelling. Mabuska (talk) 13:35, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, I didn't notice that. Non-initial C was pronounced as G, but "fixing" the spelling is probably not what editors of Wikipedia should be doing. I've got an additional source for middle irsh "Tulach Óc" - we could use that or the form "Telach Oc" in the source already added, and leave out modern forms I suppose. Finn Rindahl (talk) 14:22, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Tullyhogue more likely derives from Tulach Óc/Telach Oc rather than newer Tulaigh Óg so it would be the correct one to use for the articles lede. The infobox doesn't need the derived origin as it lists modern alternative names for places, so it should keep "Tulaigh Óg" in it. Mabuska (talk) 14:34, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I added an additional reference and went with Tulach Óc - I think Francis John Byrne is likely to have gotten the spelling correct (though any mediaeval Irish name would most likely be attested with some twenty variants in spelling). Not sure if you mean that the modern Irish name can remain without citation in the infobox, so I left the cn-tag there. Isn't there, btw, some "official list" of modern Gaelic placenames somewhere, or are there only official names in gaeltacht areas?? Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 15:57, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Logainm is usually used, however it lists Tullyhogue a "Tullyhog" and doesn't provide any Gaelic name for it yet, and as its not a townland it also doesn't appear over at PlaceNames NI. The place name books by Queens University would state it but i have no access to that volume. This useful source doesn't cover Cookstown District yet.
 * Can these be considered reliable? and.
 * I assume this is a piss take on Tullyhogue.
 * I assume Doomesday is reliable enough for the modern name, no names names there seem to be given with diacritics though so it would be "Tulaigh Óg", not "Tulaigh Óg"... If all minor details in Wikipedia had received as much attention as this one we would have produced an extremely good encyclopaedia :) A bit ironic as the rest of the article is neither sourced nor very informative, but I tend to get fixed on details... Finn Rindahl (talk) 15:34, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Oddly enough i have just tidied up the Tullyhogue Fort article lol. Mabuska (talk) 15:44, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I'm planning to write a Norwegian version (probably in one article, with the Tullyhogue Fort-stuff in a history-section), but was reluctant as I felt I had to do most "from scratch" - you just saved me a lot of work :) (I sent you an e-mail btw) Finn Rindahl (talk) 15:55, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem! The article needed an overhaul so i thought i'd get stuck in at it. For an article on what i'd assume to be a high importance article in terms of medieval Irish history, i was amazed at the state it was in. Thanks for the email by the way! Mabuska (talk) 16:01, 20 February 2011 (UTC)

While there are some really good stuff on Irish medieval history, there are also lot's of stuff missing, perhaps specially related to the northern parts of the island. I can't help thinking that Irish editors often get stuck discussing "British Isles", "Republic of", "status of Northern Ireland" and such on talk pages - both time consuming and also somewhat discouraging to some I think. Northern Uí Néill is still a red link, even though that dynasty ruled the northern part of Ireland for nearly a thousand years. If nobody beats me to it I'll translate no:Nordlige Uí Néill one of these days. (If the mailprovider is up to the task you should have received another e-mail) Finn Rindahl (talk) 16:44, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Many Irish editors are more concerned about the politics than anything else and in fact just seem to edit on those lines alone. A Northern Uí Néill article should be created and i can help in it, however they never ruled the northern part of Ireland for nearly a thousand years or anything like that. They ruled most of Ulster at one stage but never for more than a couple of centuries and that itself was quite late on in the medieval period. Mabuska (talk) 16:49, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Granted, I'll rephrase myself to (one of) the most powerful dynasties in the northern parts of Ireland (island) (though they rarely controlled more than the western parts of Northern Ireland, and the middle only through subordinating the Airgíalla). It's interesting that most of our written sources are made under Uí Néill influence, and the Ulaid (and Munster) may have been more powerful in early history than the Uí Néill "synthetic historians" allowed for- political propaganda isn't a modern invention :) All the more reason to write that article - I might just take you up on that offer of assistance. Finn Rindahl (talk) 17:13, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It is a pity the scribes of the early medieval era did such inventing. Virtually all of the conquered clans and septs where given doctored genealogies to link them all to Niall of the Nine Hostages the forebear of the Northern Ui Neill so that the conquered could be given a sense of kindred to their conqueror. The ancient might of the Ulaid is attested to in various sources, though some sources downplay or overlook them entirely as it is questionable as to whether or not they are actually Gaelic. Its a pity it was the Normans who essentially finished Ulaid off.
 * I'll help anyways lol :-) Mabuska (talk) 23:42, 20 February 2011 (UTC)