User talk:MacGyverMagic/Archive 24

Template:UpdatedDYK
I see you've been working on this (and I cribbed what you did for Template:UpdatedDYKNom) per I think it may have broken all the older usages, if you check what links here and follow a random link you'll see some messes. Let's discuss on WPT:DYK ok? something needs to be done I think. My suggestion would be that if the parms are not present, the whole date is omitted completely (and the template assumes parm 1 is the article name instead of parm 3). This kind of logic is doable with #ifexists and #switch, I know how... but I would prefer to discuss first. Thoughts? ++Lar: t/c 23:41, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I updated it to be similar to UpdatedDYKNom, because I often informed users some days after the article actually featured and altering the dates was a lot of work. If you want to renumber so the article is the first parameter, I've got no problems with that. If older articles are broken by the update, they should be subst: with the correct information. This is a subst: type of template. I couldn't find any examples of the template messing up. Can you point to a specific one? - Mgm|(talk) 11:15, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Do a what links here... first one I checked had the problem. I agree it's an improvement but I think changing the order to have the art first would fix things a lot. I may make time to try to make that chnage (if you don't beat me to it) for both of them. Let's stay threaded here ok? ++Lar: t/c 12:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'll keep it all on my talk page and just leave short notes to inform you unless you check your watchlist regularly. - Mgm|(talk) 12:42, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * We should try to fix those transclusions by using subst and the correct dates, and only consider altering the order of the parameters afterwards. P.S. Don't forget to change the instructions at template talk DYK if the order is changed. - Mgm|(talk) 12:48, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll create a separate dateless template to replace the old transclusions with. - Mgm|(talk) 12:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should take this to WPT:DYK, I know CactusMan had some concerns too. I think maybe we should get all the regulars in on a redesign. I think with careful crafting, one template that takes either 1 or 3 parms can be built so we don't have to fix the old ones, and we can accomodate both versions, and that works under subst as well as transclusion. I've done this sort of coding before in other templates. The key question is whether if there is only one parm given it should default to no date at all, or default to the current date, for the other two. If you agree with taking this to WPT:DYK, go ahead, or I will refactor it, as you like. Thanks for your help on this by the way! Your efforts are appreciated. (I do check my watchlist pretty regularly, but with 1800 items, sometimes I misse stuff... feel free to ping if you think I am not responding because I missed it)++Lar: t/c 14:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm already almost done with fixing the old transclusions. - Mgm|(talk) 14:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Well cool! you rock! I still think we should maybe get a good unified design for the final answer though, thoughts? ++Lar: t/c 15:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Right now UpdatedDYK and UpdatedDYKNom do have a unified design, but feel free to suggest improvements to the templates on WPT:DYK. I would add an error message when the template is transcluded instead of subst:'ed as afd has. - Mgm|(talk) 15:37, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Just flipping the parm order I think is all that's needed now, and the design questions I asked above about defaults. Ilike the idea of warning if not subst'd.. Let's move the whole thread over there? ++Lar: t/c 19:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, copy it over if you want. Include a warning if stuff is not subst:'ed. And if it's possible. Make sure the template is altered if the user doesn't provide a date. I don't know a lot on qif an similar stuff, so you'd have to lend a hand there. Is there a page that shows how non-included data can be left out of the template? I know there's a code for it, but I don't know how it works. - Mgm|(talk) 20:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Copied. Let's carry on there. When I need to do fancy stuff (I do not use qif) I look at WPBeatles and remember what I did there. ++Lar: t/c 01:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Deleting user, user talk and subpages
Dear MacGyver,

Would it be possible if an admin can delete my user page, user talk page and any sub-pages please? I'm no longer editing on wikipedia and wont be checking back here regularly either.

HelenWatt 09:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

RE: Help desk
MGM, thanks for your somewhat blunt pointer: I pointed them at the right pages and told them to look through there anyway, so hopefully they won't go too wrong.

EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME | IMPROVEME 15:34, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Hunter91
Thanks for your help Martinp23  22:48, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

The new and third article on Legionnaires' disease
I am writing to you because, in the past, you have contributed to the article Legionellosis and therefore might be interested in the following:

Wikipedia has had two existing articles for quite a while named Legionella and Legionellosis. About two months ago, User:Noigel2000 started making changes to both these articles with no prior discussion on the talk pages. When his changes got edited, he became quite perturbed. After quite a bit of discourse, (during which his need to use proper Wiki syntax and guidelines was pointed out to him), he became even more perturbed. He made a number of derogatory remarks about other editors and about Wikipedia, and kept insisting that his Internet website (devoted to Legionnaires' disease) was the best source of information and better than anything in Wikipedia.

Finally, Noigel got tired of having his edits to the two existing articles corrected and of being admonished for some of his remarks. So he wrote a third, completely new article entitled Legionnaires' disease. It is composed entirely of material taken directly from the many pages on his Internet web site. He made absolutely no attempt to "Wikify" the article. There are no references, no external links (with one exception, a link to his web site), no embedded Wiki links, poor organization, no use of Wiki section headings, etc. In my opinion, he is using Wikipedia as a billboard for his web site (and I admit that I am biased, because I do not like his attitude).

Please read these two pages from his website: and

Here is a direct copy of his self-introduction from his User talk:Noigel2000 page: "Who am I or what am I. Some call me a Legioneela Advocate, Others a Legionella Nut or Legionella Fan some stronger than that."

Do you think that this third article by Noigel is really needed? Please let me know what you think. - mbeychok 17:16, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Where to post a question?
I know it says that this is not where I should talk about an issue, but then I was wondering where I can post about an article i submitted today being deleted? I would just like a clarification on why this occured Dcirish7 21:53, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Re. DYK
Thanks for the tips and the encouragement, dear Mgm - I'll make sure to get my fingers to work on it asap! Lar has told me that, luckily, more and more people are getting involved in it lately, which is a relief; however, as I love that part of the project, I'll butt in, slowly for now until I get a hang of the basics. I'll make sure to ask you if I'm afraid of messing up, k? ;) Again thank you, and ttyl - big hugs!  Phaedriel   ♥  The Wiki Soundtrack! ♪  - 09:18, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

UK National Parks
Thanks a lot for your input Mgm - I do appreciate it. I actually completely agree with you and very nearly reverted the pages anyway (I can do it - I made a mistake early on and had too!), just decided I was a little new to take the action without checking. However as the advice on the helpdesk I posted to three of the talk pages involved asking for opinions - should I now wait for answers or just do it? Regards --Nigel 12:06, 22 July 2006 (UTC)


 * OK - I'm still getting the hang of the co-operative/anarchic nature of wiki. However to show I'm getting the hang of it I reverted most yesterday anyway!  I just thought I'd give the talk pages ones 24 hours to see if anyone said anything.
 * Thanks again and enjoy life Nigel 09:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Help desk link
Oops, sorry about that. I usually do use short cuts. I'm not sure why I didn't that time, or why I left out the s'. I know that it is the noticeboard of admnistrators not the noticeboard that is an administrator. :) Thanks for correcting it. &mdash;WAvegetarian&bull;(talk) 01:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

From the help page
Hi MGM,

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm still figuring our talk pages, bear with me.

The page with recurring derogatory comments is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamton_Review

This is in reference to college publication published more than 10 years ago in which an article appeared comparing and contrasting the obligations of dual citizenship of different countries. One aspect dealt with Jewish Americans claiming dual citizenry with Israel and then serving in the IDF.

However, now someone is consistently adding my name to the Wikipedia site (as the author of the article) and calling me and the article anti-semitic. Obviously, this is a strong (and untruthful) term that can cause serious repercussions.

I have edited the page several times to eliminate my name and the anti-semitic association, however, it is still reappearing. Obviously the person re-inserting these insults has some sort of personal vendetta (as my name is the only one appearing with negativity on the site) and it would not be fortuitous for me to engage said person in a dialog.

Congirl 20:37, 24 July 2006 (UTC)Congirl Thanks, so much, MGM!

Frankly, the article was written a million years ago when I was a student and I can't even recall what was in it. I do know, though, it was not as billed on the wikipedia site. Thank you for the semi-protection, my professional career thanks you, too! (sorry if you got this twice, I wasn't sure if I should post here or on my page ... I'll figure it out eventually, I swear!) Congirl 20:50, 24 July 2006 (UTC)Congirl

Binghamton Review - derogatory comments
MGM, it's happening again. I edited it out - is there anything you can do to help? Please! Congirl 10:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)Congirl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamton_Review

Entry: InterWallet
Hey MGM thank you for the note about how to edit the article on InterWallet. My experience writing articles is quite limited as you have witnessed. I am trying to be as objective as possible, and I have already fixed the article according to your guidelines. I took note about the sources.

What I plan to do in order to show legitimacy for the company is link to the regulatory body that the company is working with at the moment (The UK's Financial State Authority, AKA the FSA). Once the company gets licensed, it will get a registration number, and links to FSA pages that show the company's principals, etc.

I do understand Wikipedia's position on such matters, and the importance of NPOV, and also the dangers of allowing people to post about some weird and unknown company that accepts people's money, but I assure you this one is legitimate and I will work to build that confidence with the help of links and other reinforcements.

Please, do let me know if you have other comments on the article! :-)

EDIT: Ok i've read WP:CORP and you know what, I completely agree with it! How can I hide the entry temporarily, until I feel it is better written?

AricFedida 20:27, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

RE: Johnny Lee Clary - Please help
Hey there, my name is Nick, my username is Potters house and I have encountered a problem with trying to provide any information about Johnny Lee Clary. I have posted this post off to other staff members also. I am not sure if this is the best route to resolve this, but can think of no other way.

The article Johnny Lee Clary has been deleted. I have known Johnny through telephone conversations and email for a short time now (about 3-4 months). He recently came and shared his life story in for our church group for the first time just two weeks ago. Before I met Johnny I became interested in his story i.e. his conversion from the head of the KKK in the US, to being a Christian Minister who now teaches against race hate groups. I found the article Johnny Lee Clary as it still is today, deleted, except for some small talk. If you read the talk you see what I have said at the time (notice I have gotten no reply, probable my fault as I don’t know heaps about WIKI policy). From my understanding Johnny Lee Clary was posting as The KingOfDixie and looks like he tried to change a few things on Wiki concerning the KKK. While this is a controversial subject, Johnny being the former leader of the KKK would probably know a thing or two and be able to contibute, but that’s another story. He eventually made an article about himself i.e. Johnny Lee Clary. Johnny being quite new to Wiki and ignorant of rules of conduct found himself at odds with some admins and had his site deleted.

Whilst observing Johnny over the last 3-4 months I have noticed that he is very outspoken against race hate groups such as the Neo Nazis, Skinheads, KKK etc. This, more often than not, lands Johnny in the hot seat. He has experienced persecution from racist groups for his departure from the KKK and voiced opinions against these racist organizations on his webpage, www.xkkk.org. Johnny has also received multiple death threats.

Because of his bold stance against these racist groups Johnny has become accustomed to hatred directed at him by those same groups. Johnny concluded that perhaps the guy who deleted the page Johnny Lee Clary was a white supremist. I am hoping to clear this up. Before he told me this, I started to create J L Clary, after hearing nothing from posting in user talk on Johnny Lee Clary's article. I wasn't 10 minutes into the J L Clary article when it was issued a deletion notice, and then before I had time to reply (about 5 minutes) it was deleted! I was amazed. I told this to Johnny and he said the main reason he was told that he couldn't have an article was because he was not prominent enough.

Johnny has a very famous testimony and has been on multiple TV shows like Oprah, Donahue, Jerry Springer, etc, and even recently when he preached in our town he made front page news, a double spread on his life, and the local ABC interviewed him live, which is not bad for our town (LISMORE NSW Australia) See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Kerry&dir=prev&offset=20050327125109&limit=500&action=history.

When David Wilkerson came to our town hardly anyone knew or cared, yet David Wilkerson is allowed an article (and rightfully so), but more people know of Johnny. As to whether he is famous or not, just Google search him and see all the TV interviews and radio interviews he does. He hangs with some of the most prominent Christian leaders in Australia. Besides this, just being the former KKK leader should be enough for an article (he doesn't even get a mention in the KKK one, and would be deleted). He was also a Pro Wrestler. So he is prominent in Christian circles, he is prominent amongst race hate groups, and he is also prominent in the WWE wrestling.

Johnny asked me to test the waters for him to see if he was being persecuted by someone from a race hate group. So I created some sites, John Clary Wade Watts and Operation Colorblind - the name of Johnny's Ministry. These have been fine until yesterday. I cannot understand why these sites are just issued a deletion notice? Just because they mention JLC? I was hoping to discuss these things but they are just deleted. The one on Wade Watts is about a black gospel preacher who was one of the leaders in the civil rights movement in the US and was good friends with Martin Luther King. He took Johnny Clary under his wing and even ordained Johnny as a minister (to this day Johnny is the only white man ordained in the All Black Baptist Church). But his article is up for deletion because I mentioned Clary and had a link.

That is why I am writing to you to see if you can help. It seems to me that the person(s) deleting all articles which even mention Johnny Lee Clary has an agenda. I thought that wikipedia admins had to keep a neutral stance on every article. It seems like this guy has a vendetta against JLC. Why delete the Wade Watts article. That is guilt by association and could be proof that all deletions are because of racial discrimination! I hope this is not the case and would think that it is politically motivated, as Johnny is a strong supporter of George Bush and Antaeus Feldspar of Kerry.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Kerry&dir=prev&offset=20050327125109&limit=500&action=history This shows how Antaeus Feldspar supports Kerry, which is fine, but Johnny is a strong supporter of Bush.

My hope is that Johnny will be able to have an article like any other famous person, minister, former KKK leader, or pro wrestler, and that Johnny and anyone connected with him and his ministry will in future have certain rules set in place that do not allow the wholesale deletion of the articles associated with him, but that they will be at least discussed.

I thank you for reading this long winded post. I have only been using WIKI for about a year myself so I need your help, I don't really know what else to do. I hope you can help. I personally think that Johnny's story is one that is beneficial to the cause of reconciliation between races and to the3 unity of society as a whole. It would be a shame if WIKI became known for having covert racists. Of course I hope that this is a misunderstanding and that all will be cleared up soon.

Here are some links that might help.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade_Watts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:TheKingOfDixie

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Colorblind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Threeafterthree

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Potters_house

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_policy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Antaeus_Feldspar

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Kerry&dir=prev&offset=20050327125109&limit=500&action=history This shows how Antaeus Feldspar supports Kerry, which is fine, but Johnny is a strong supporter of Bush. Perhaps the bias is political and not racial?

The link for page: John Clary has already been deleted!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alabamaboy

Please notice that his link was taken from the KKK site the same day:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ku_Klux_Klan&diff=prev&oldid=65690238

then

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ku_Klux_Klan&diff=next&oldid=65690238

Also note his contributions: Featured articles: ·	African American literature -- My first featured article. Thanks to everyone who gave feedback. While I didn't start the article, I obsessed on it for an entire month and wrote most of the copy. ·	Ku Klux Klan -- I began work on this article after it became a featured article. Since then I've mediated several editorial disputes on the article (including one of which kept the article from being delisted as a FA) and made a large number of edit. Potters house 00:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC) Nick.

Hidden Agenda
You have any advice for Hidden Agenda? --NEMT 19:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

InterWallet
Hi MGM! Yes please move it to my userspace. You see, we are going to start pushing this system in England soon, I thought it would be a good idea to have information about it in the wikipedia if people try to find out what it is. I was not trying to advertise on wikipedia itself. Anyway, if you think the article needs more tinkering, please move it to my user space :-) Oh, and happy birthday!! :) AricFedida 20:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)