User talk:Macedoni from Korca

I propose review of all history section which I understand that is somehow mediocre, misinforming and poor in information. Albanian history is very rich I propose the following :


 * archeological section to come first showing evidence of ciclopic ruins etc.


 * we could define that Albanians originate from Illyrian of the south in fact thraco-illirian substrate and so it is Albanian language


 * we could mention that for centuries Albanian were consider as ancestors of Epirotes and Macedonians in fact the Illyrians of the south


 * in fact were alliances and war between south Illyrians tribes with different but spread culture up to this point the Greek colonies are nothing but a spread of Hellenic culture of the area


 * adding roman time section


 * adding Byzantine time section

Reference:Albanian is identified as the descendent of Illyrian, but Hamp (1994a) argues that the evidence is too meager and contradictory for us to know whether the term Illyrian even referred to a single language. Thracian has also been adduced as a possible ancestor of Albanian (Fine 1983, 10? 11). Hamp (1982; 1994b) argues that Albanian is descended from a language that was in intense contact with Latin, as was the language that produced Romanian (traditionally referred to as Dacian), but unlike the ancestor of Romanian, the ancestor of Albanian escaped Romanization. Source : Ammon, Ulrich(Editor). Sociolinguistics. Berlin,, DEU: Mouton de Gruyter (A Division of Walter de Gruyter & Co. KG Publishers), 2006. p 144.
 * ottoman period section stating reasons why in 17century a part of Albanian Christians converted in Muslim

Reference  “The fate of Albanian people and territories during Roman rule  was that, they lived as free people but in social hierarchy they had a place between Romans civil right and slaves who had not right at all , the first mention with the name Albanoi or Arber  was by  Ptolemy of Alexandri 2nd c. A.D   one of the free Illyrian tribes. The Illyrian military began to play important role in Roman life ,seven of Roman Emperors were Illyrians and they ruled in succession, the Illyrian Emperor Dioclean administrative reorganization Albanian territory in three provinces : Praevalitana, with Shkodra (Shkodër) as its administrative centre, Epirus Nova, Dyrrachium as its capital, and Epirus Vetus, with its central city at Nikopois. “ Source : Antonina Zhelyazkova Albanians identities .. International center for minority study and intercultural relations. Sofia .BULGARIA 1999 [ http://www.omda.bg/imir/studies/alban_id1.html

Reference: The history of modern Albanian identity, like that of other modern Balkan identities, begins during the end of the Ottoman Empire. At this time, the Ottoman system of classification was based on millet, which can be glossed religiously defined national community. Greek Orthodox Albanians were therefore classified as Greeks and Muslim Albanians as Turks. The Orthodox were subject to Hellenization, while the Muslims were denied linguistic rights granted to Christians. Thus, for example, in 1878 there were 80 Turkish schools, 163 Greek schools, and no Albanian schools in the sandjaks of Berat, Gjirokastër, and Vlorë (Jelavich 1983, 85). Ammon, Ulrich(Editor). Sociolinguistics.Berlin,, DEU: Mouton de Gruyter (A Division of Walter de Gruyter & Co. KG Publishers), 2006. p 144.

Reference:Maps of ethnic Albania produced by émigré groups are generally based on Ottoman administrative boundaries from the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, viz. the vilayets of Scutari, Kosova, Monastir and Ioanina. Source : Ammon, Ulrich(Editor). Sociolinguistics. Berlin,, DEU: Mouton de Gruyter (A Division of Walter de Gruyter & Co. KG Publishers), 2006. p 145.

Reference: Albania Synonims (Shqipëria)  Arbania/Arbanon, Epirus The Republic of Albania (Republika e Shqipërisë) since 1991. Previously the People's Socialist Republic of Albania (1976); the People's Republic of Albania (1946); the Kingdom of Albania (1928); and the Republic of Albania (1925). Although its independence was recognized in principle in 1912, it was made a protectorate of the Great Powers. Source :"Albania" Concise Dictionary of World Place-Names. John Everett-Heath. Oxford University Press 2005.

Reference : It seems likely that Philip II instituted regular training in all branches of his Macedonian army, and when Alexander (2) the Great succeeded, he was able to put on an impressive display for the Illyrians Oxford Dictionary of the Classical World. Ed. John Roberts. Oxford University Press, 2007

The Macedonian war under the Alexander the Great are describe in this reference under the main article Albania indicating his origin or the geographical place of Macedonia itself. Albania"  A Dictionary of World History. Oxford University Press, 2000. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press

The current figures of religion in Albania express the country as multi religious Muslim 38.8%; Roman Catholic 16.7%; non religious 16.6%; Eastern Orthodox 16.1%"Albania"  A Dictionary of World History. Oxford University Press, 2000. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. 

The army of Alexander the great were Thracians, Illryrians and the hoplites of Corinthian Legue These units were far superior to any they encountered, and, supplemented by a large reserve of secondary troops (Thracians, Illyrians, and the hoplites of the Corinthian League), they gave Alexander an overwhelming military advantage. "Alexander(2) " Oxford Dictionary of the Classical World. Ed. John Roberts. Oxford University Press, 2007. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press. British Council Tirana. 2 January 2008 < http://www.oxfordreference.com/views/ENTRY.html?subview=Main&entry=t180.e95

Albania, Christianity in. Christianity probably reached Albania early, but with the fall of the W. Empire in the 5th and 6th cents. its influence was largely destroyed. In the Dark Ages the Albanians were partly conquered by Slavs. In the 9th cent. some were incorporated into the Bulgarian kingdom, adhering to E. Orthodoxy, and in the 11th cent. they came under Serbian sway. At the time of the schism between the E. and W. Churches, some transferred their allegiance from Constantinople to Rome. After the Turks finally subjugated Albania in 1521, there was much apostasy. In 1913 Albania became independent and the Orthodox Church became autocephalous in 1922. Under Communist rule after 1945 all places of worship were closed, but the outward practice of religion was allowed again in 1991.How to cite this entry: "Albania, Christianity in" The Concise Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. Ed. E. A. Livingstone. Oxford University Press, 2006. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press.

Reference:It was an Albanian who led the Greeks in the War of Independence, and again an Albanian who commanded the Turkish troops sent to quell the rebellion Source: Albania. Catholic Encyclopedia Online  Written by Elisabeth Christitch. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume I. Published 1907. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, March 1, 1907. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York

minorities
I somewhat agree, the Arvanites should not be included at all in the map of minorities, they are almost extinct and even in the area of their origin Epirus their activity is imperceptible. Arvanites and Albanian in Greece are in so small amounts that they even can not be count as minority and their wealth and economic power is inconsiderable, they are poor and not developed people as it is their language. I do not agree about the Slavic group and Vlahi they inhabitated all over the Greece mostly in Macedonia,Epirus.

In October, Amnesty International published a report criticising Greeces treatment of its ethnic and religious minorities, particularly Roma, and asylum seekers. As if to underline the point, Greece was forced to cut short a presidential visit to Albania in the face of protests by members of the Cham community. The Chams, ethnically Albanian, had been deported en masse from northern Greece in 1944, allegedly for collaborating with the Nazis, and have since campaigned for the return of property rights in Greece. Walden Publishing Ltd. Greece Profile (2006/April). Cambridge, England: World of Information, 2006. p 160. Copyright © 2006. World of Information. All rights reserved.

The London Conference reduced the amount of ethnic Albanian-dominated territory of the former Ottoman Empire, Cameria (Chamouria) was granted to Greece.Walden Publishing Ltd. Greece Profile (2006/April). Cambridge, England: World of Information, 2006. p 161. Copyright © 2006. World of Information. All rights reserved.

Albanians and Albanian
I would put this sourced text in the article and I call for a general agreement:

Illyrians are a large group of indo-European tribes and Albanians and Albanian belong to Illyrian of the south, thraco- illyrian tribes such Epiriotes and Macedonian       even more ancient that the generic name of Illyrians. In the Dark Ages the Albanians or Epiriotes were partly conquered by Slavs .Albanians were identified with the name Epiriot  by themselves and outsiders until 17th  century but the identification of Millet during Ottomans Empire based on religion, the name Epiriot was abandoned and the name Shqiptar or Albanian was used instead.

1.Reference: Illyrians,  the large group of related Indo-European tribes that occupied in classical times the western side of the Balkan Oxford Dictionary of the Classical World. Ed. John Roberts. Oxford University Press, 2007. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press.

2.Albanian is identified as the descendent of Illyrian, but Hamp (1994a) argues that the evidence is too meager and contradictory for us to know whether the term Illyrian even referred to a single language. Thracian has also been adduced as a possible ancestor of Albanian (Fine 1983, 10? 11). Hamp (1982; 1994b) argues that Albanian is descended from a language that was in intense contact with Latin, as was the language that produced Romanian (traditionally referred to as Dacian), but unlike the ancestor of Romanian, the ancestor of Albanian escaped Romanization. Source : Ammon, Ulrich(Editor). Sociolinguistics. Berlin,, DEU: Mouton de Gruyter (A Division of Walter de Gruyter & Co. KG Publishers), 2006. p 144.

3.The ancient Macedonians probably had some Illyrian roots, but their ruling class adopted Greek cultural characteristics. The Illyrians also mingled with the Thracians, another ancient people with adjoining lands on the east

4.Word after Herodotus

5.Not one of the peoples with whom we have to deal in this book has such a claim to the epithet "Balkan" as the Dardanians... because they appear as the most stable and the most conservative ethnic element in the area where everything was exposed to constant change, and also because they, with their roots in the distant prehomeric age, and living in the frontiers of the Illyrian and the Thracian worlds retained their individuality and, alone among the peoples of that region succeeded in maintaining themselves as an ethnic unity even when they were militarily and politically subjected by the Roman arms...and when at the end of the ancient world, the Balkans were involved in far-reaching ethnic perturbations, the Dardanians, of all the Central Balkan tribes, played the greatest part in the genesis of the new peoples who took the place of the old" Papazoglu, Central Balkan Tribes, p.131

6.Reference : The Albanians (more of an ethnographic than a geographic term) are called Arnauts (Arnaoots, Arnaouts) by the other peoples of the Balkan peninsula; they give themselves the name of Skipetars or "mountaineers". They claim descent from the Epirots and Illyrians, and, like the latter, have always been distinguished by their warlike spirit Source: Albania Written by Elisabeth Christitch. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume I. Published 1907. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, March 1, 1907. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York

7.Reference : The period of the Roman domination, the 2nd-4th centuries A.D., marked the beginning of a major differentiation, effective throughout the Albanians' historical development, in the processes taking place in the North and in the South. The population in the more backward North succumbed to assimilation and lost its language and its Illyrian identity awareness. On the contrary, owing to their higher level of development and cultural and ethnic distinction, the Illyrians in the South could keep their identity even under the Roman Empire and its strong civilisation pressure…….. 3 Antonina Zhelyazkova 1999.. International center for minority study and intercultural relations. Sofia .BULGARIA

8.Roman empire prefecture of Illyricum, tribes of Epriotes and Macedonians  ,the new Slavs took territories from Epiriotet.

9.Reference:After Scutari, Yanina is the largest and most interesting town of modern Albania. Near it are the ruins of the temple of Dodona, the cradle of pagan civilization in Greece. This oracle uttered its prophecies by interpreting the rustling of oak branches; the fame of its priestesses drew votaries from all parts of Greece. In this neighbourhood also dwelt the Pelagic tribes of Selles, or Helles, and the Graiki, whose names were afterwards taken to denote the Hellenes, or Greeks.: Source: Albania. Catholic Encyclopedia Online

10.Paragraph 7: Of course, in any event we could only prove the Albanians did, and never that they did not, precede the Slavs

11.Albania, Christianity in. Christianity probably reached Albania early, but with the fall of the W. Empire in the 5th and 6th cents. its influence was largely destroyed. In the Dark Ages the Albanians were partly conquered by Slavs. In the 9th cent. some were incorporated into the Bulgarian kingdom, adhering to E. Orthodoxy, and in the 11th cent. they came under Serbian sway. At the time of the schism between the E. and W. Churches, some transferred their allegiance from Constantinople to Rome. After the Turks finally subjugated Albania in 1521, there was much apostasy. In 1913 Albania became independent and the Orthodox Church became autocephalous in 1922. Under Communist rule after 1945 all places of worship were closed, but the outward practice of religion was allowed again in 1991.How to cite this entry: "Albania, Christianity in" The Concise Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church. Ed. E. A. Livingstone. Oxford University Press, 2006. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University Press."

12.Reference .Barleti repeatedly stresses the national aspect of his work. Scanderbeg is not only an impressive hero, but also the saviour of his native country. When he is compared with Alexander the Great and Pyrrhus, these are not arbitrarily chosen models from antiquity, but national heroes, for Alexander's Macedonia and Pyrrhus' Epirus are for Barleti synonymous with his own country. Mostly he calls it Epirus, but also often Albania Source : A Heroic Tale: Marin Barleti's Scanderbeg between orality and literacy Minna Skafte Jensen (b. 1937) Ass. professor of Greek and Latin, Copenhagen University, 1969-93. Professor of Greek and Latin, University of Southern Denmark, 1993-2003. Member of the Danish, Norwegian and Belgian Academies of Sciences and Letters. Main fields of research: Archaic Greek epic and the oral-formulaic theory

13.Reference :Albania and Albanians which is a new name were identify not wrongly with Epiriotes  from 1000 AD [Despotate of Epirus], Gjergj Kastrioti Princ of Epirus and Ali Pashe kingdom 1744-1822  who was prescribed by british poet Bajron in his poem Childe Harold"Albania"   A Dictionary of World History. Oxford University Press, 2000. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University

14.The history of modern Albanian identity, like that of other modern Balkan identities, begins during the end of the Ottoman Empire. At this time, the Ottoman system of classification was based on millet, which can be glossed ?religiously defined national community?. Greek Orthodox Albanians were therefore classified as Greeks and Muslim Albanians as Turks. The Orthodox were subject to Hellenization, while the Muslims were denied linguistic rights granted to Christians. Thus, for example, in 1878 there were 80 Turkish schools, 163 Greek schools, and no Albanian schools in the sandjaks of Berat, Gjirokastër, and Vlorë (Jelavich 1983, 85). Ammon, Ulrich(Editor). Sociolinguistics.Berlin,, DEU: Mouton de Gruyter (A Division of Walter de Gruyter & Co. KG Publishers), 2006. p 144

15. Albania (Shqipëria) Arbania/Arbanon, Epirus The Republic of Albania (Republika e Shqipërisë) since 1991. Previously the People's Socialist Republic of Albania (1976); the People's Republic of Albania (1946); the Kingdom of Albania (1928); and the Republic of Albania (1925). True independence was gained in 1921. ……Shqipëria is generally taken to mean the ‘Land of Eagles’ from shqipónjë ‘eagle’, a name gradually adopted during the 16th and 17th centuries, to replace Arbania/Arbanon which took its name from the Albanoi (the Byzantine Greek name; in Latin, Arbanenses) tribe which in turn took its name from the Indo-European word alb ‘mountain’. "Albania" Concise Dictionary of World Place-Names. John Everett-Heath. Oxford University Press 2005. Oxford Reference Online. Oxford University

Chams issue at the minority section
The disgraceful state of preservation of much of this heritage by the Greek government should be a matter of international concern. Although there has been some progress in declaring conservation areas in Greek cities in recent years, many historic buildings once occupied by Albanians have been demolished since 1945. In the countryside, some restoration work has begun at a very basic level in buildings such as Rogoi Castle, but the greater share of available resources goes to sites like Dodona which can find a place in the approved ‘canon’ of Greek history. Source The Challenge to Preserve the Cham Heritage By JAMES PETTIFER AND MIRANDA VICKERS Conflict Studies Research Centre Above all, the Albanian government and associated cultural organisations and universities in Albanian communities throughout the Balkans and the diaspora, need to clearly understand that the Cham heritage is not a sectional cause. The legacy of Cham occupation in north western Greece should be recognised as central to gaining international recognition of Albanian culture as is the struggle for the independence of Kosova, and the improvement of human rights for Albanians throughout the world. The Challenge to Preserve the Cham Heritage By JAMES PETTIFER AND MIRANDA VICKERS

It is time the issue of the Cham heritage in Greece was properly internationalised. A possible avenue for those seeking to preserve this heritage is to seek the involvement of international bodies such as UNESCO and Monuments in Danger or the British organisation SAVE Europe’s Heritage, to force Greece to recognise the problem and take appropriate steps to remedy it. The decay of these buildings is accelerating at an alarming pace and unless measures are taken soon Europe will have lost a fascinating glimpse into its Ottoman past. Cultural heritage is also important in international relations. For example, the destruction of Buddist statues by the Taliban in Afghanistan in 2001 was a quite significant factor in mobilising international opinion against the Taliban regime, and helping legitimise humanitarian military action in that country. In the same way, in northern Cyprus attacks on Orthodox churches, the theft of icons and associated vandalism has been valuable in illustrating and focusing international attention the human rights issues there. The Challenge to Preserve the Cham Heritage By JAMES PETTIFER AND MIRANDA VICKERS

The cultural policies and minority rights orientation of modern Greece are quite incompatible with European Union membership and international law, and the government and civil society organisations in Albania should have no hesitation in a vigorous pursuit of Cham rights in this respect, as in others. If Greece does not change its current policies, the EU has various responses to penalise Greece, such as those applied over the environmental crisis on the turtle nesting beaches on the Ionian island of Zachinthos. EU funding was withheld here until there was compliance with EU law on wild life preservation The Challenge to Preserve the Cham Heritage By JAMES PETTIFER AND MIRANDA VICKERS The most acute crisis for the Cham architectural heritage concerns domestic properties. This is naturally inextricably linked with the failure of the Greek government to deal properly with the original Albanian Cam owners. Practices differ in each locality. In some cases, historic houses belonging to absent Cham families are respected monuments in their locality, and are not interfered with, even if they are in a poor state of repair. Others however, are often used illegally for inappropriate purposes, such as shelter for farm animals. Elsewhere such houses have been seized by illegal Greek owners or squatted in by internal migrants in Greece. In other places there are important collections of old Albanian tower houses, or Kullas, of outstanding architectural quality that have survived amongst the forests and scrub land by virtue of being in old military zones near the Albanian border The Challenge to Preserve the Cham Heritage By JAMES PETTIFER AND MIRANDA VICKERS

In regard to the heritage of the Chams and other minorities in Greece, there appears to be little or no respect for minority cultures, combined with a subtle and active government policy directed towards their complete erosion or assimilation. Many EU laws have never been properly incorporated into national legislation in Athens, and it is a scandal that Greece continues to receive funding for heritage projects that in many instances in North Western Greece actively promote the destruction of a central element in that heritage. The Challenge to Preserve the Cham Heritage By JAMES PETTIFER AND MIRANDA VICKERS Conflict Studies Research Centre

The strategy in Epirus of successive Greek governments has been to allow a slow and largely hidden process of erosion of Cam history and heritage and its substitution by Greek ‘modernity’. A similar process also affects thousands of properties in Northern Greece owned by Slav-Macedonians, who were forced to leave Greece after supporting the losing side in the Greek Civil war 1944-1949. In these cases, Greece is in breach of European Union and international law applicable to the payment of compensation and property restitution for the victims of war and ethnic cleansing. The main reason for the continuation of the ‘state of war’ by the Greek Parliament and the illegal restrictions on the Turkish and Slav-Macedonian minorities is to prevent a rational resolution of these issues and protect Greece from financial compensation claims. Source The Challenge to Preserve the Cham Heritage By JAMES PETTIFER AND MIRANDA VICKERS Conflict Studies Research Centre

The Albanian language in Greece has been marginalised and needs proper recognition as a minority language, along the lines of the use of the Turkish language in Thrace. The Greek displacement of the Cham physical heritage has been possible because it has been de-legitimised in international cultural discourse, and a canonic version of Greek nationalist history of the heritage substituted. The Challenge to Preserve the Cham Heritage By JAMES PETTIFER AND MIRANDA VICKERS

next talk
We fought turks much of any other Balkan country and this is not a place for “shqeh” wicked “pseudoChristians” propaganda either,  you came too late in the area to pretend territories and unfortunately you got a tiny Albanian ancestry as well ,does this bothers you  ?