User talk:Macrorybeg

MacLaren article
Hello, thank you for your message. As you are new to Wikipedia here are a few tips. When writing an article, with the exception of the opening lines, the whole of the rest of the article should have verifiable sources to support the information in it. Ideally you would have one source per sentence but at the very minimum one source per paragraph - as long as it supports the whole paragraph. Any unsourced info can actuually be challenged and removed from the article. Sourced information should be discussed first before making changes. As for the MacLaurin story, Scottish clans are only recognized as such if they have a chief, but we can of course have articles about clans that used to have chiefs and no longer do (Armigerous clans). We can also have articles about septs which are specifically about a surname sept of a clan and not just a generic surname article. As long as you have verifiable sources it is ok. However, I do recall how a previous clan "MacLaurin" article was deleted not only for a lack of sources but because the sources being quoted were being used in Clan MacLaren articles and to support the same information. For example there was an identical list of names attributed to both clans in separate articles. If they were separate clans then it can only have been one or the other. From the sources I have seen MacLaurin appears to have either been a sept or spelling variation of MacLaren. In fact a reliable book of septs I have does indeed list MacLaurin as a sept of MacLaren.QuintusPetillius (talk) 19:34, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

Hi I think I am replying by adding a new section but unsure? Good to hear from you. The other MacLaurin page that was deleted was my attempt. I had no idea how to get around in Wikipedia and it was poorly done I admit. As you probably know, since then a lot of primary records in Scotland have been digitized that are not found in books. Fortunately that includes information on the Argyll/Tiree MacLaurins which includes John MacLaurin, Lord Dreghorn's family and relatives in Appin and Ardchattan parishes.

In 1781 John MacLaurin was matriculated as Clan Chief of the Clan MacLaurin with origin in Tiree, by the Court of the Lord Lyon King of Arms. The Court considers MacLaurins a different lineage from the Balquhidder MacLarens. The following statement from the Lyon Court will confirm the difference between MacLaren and MacLaurin.

"In granting him (Major Donald MacLaren in 1957) the appropriate arms, with supporters, the Lord Lyon makes a distinction between the MacLarens of Balquhidder and Strathearn, and the MacLarens (MacLaurins) of Tiree, whose arms and descent are, his Lordship holds, those of a different race" Sir Thomas Innes of Learney 1957. Via Elizabeth Roads, LVO, FSA, AIH., (then) Snawdoun Herald, Lyon Keeper of the Records, Court of the Lord Lyon King of Arms, in 2017.

We as MacLaurins are in a difficult situation to inform the public of our existence as an armigerous clan that preceded Clan MacLaren by app. 175 years. The spelling is confusing for many as MacLaurins have also been recorded as McLarens, MacLarines, McLerrans, the list goes on depending on the writer.

Cordially Hilton Macrorybeg (talk) 23:04, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

I have a lot of contemporaneous primary sources that will be used as citations, which is very different from the Clan MacLaren page which uses popular Scottish history books, that have no citations themselves.


 * I have adjusted the layout of discussion for you. First things first Wikipedia prefers you to use secondary sources. You can use primary sources but it needs to be inline with Wikipedia's policy so please see here: Identifying and using primary sources. QuintusPetillius (talk) 18:15, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

In addition
You will notice in Learney's statement, that he limits the Clan MacLaren to Balquhidder and Strathearn, as he does with MacLaurin of Tiree. The largest branch, third if you will of the kindred lived in and around Loch Tay and are recorded in 16th century records as 'Clanlaurane' by Campbell of Glenurchy, these MacLaurane appear at present to have arrived there in the 15th century from Lorn as MacDougall allies. In 1512 the first MacLaren arrived in Balquhidder as a tenant at Invernenty with three families of MacIntyres. They spread east thru the glen, by 1558 there were ten families of MacLarens in Balquhidder. Each of these three branches derived the name MacLaren/McLaurin from different individuals, Laurence appears to have been a common family name, as was Patrick and John and Malcolm. Cordially HiltonMacrorybeg (talk) 23:02, 21 January 2020 (UTC)

I have adjusted the layout of discussion for you.
"I have adjusted the layout of discussion for you." Apologize for my struggle with wikipedia format,I don't know what you mean. Should I have edited the message instead of making a new section? Wasn't sure if you be notified of an edit.

Thank You for the Link very informative. I did not see whether or not wikipedia accepts 'legal documents', which are primary sources, that is most of what I have Bonds, contracts, ledger reports, Church and Court records. There are compilations of some of them by modern Scottish Scholars, that would be secondary sources, occasionally a problem with some of them is that they are english translations of Gáidhlig or Latin and errors were made.

Cordially Macrorybeg (talk) 20:22, 22 January 2020 (UTC)